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Diablo 3

Diablo 3 

General Discussion  » Blizzard admits failure of Diablo 3 end-game

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58 posts found
  laserit

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1798

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

7/04/12 5:55:48 PM#41
Originally posted by Paradigm68

The idea of the item hunt being some kind of meaningful activity is totally undercut by having an AH/RMAH. It is unbelievable that they didn't know this. Treasure hunts don't work next to a supermarket. Especially if the dynamics of the treasure hunt encourage the use of the superamarket.  I think the dollar signs that came into their eyes when they thought up the AH/RMAH blinded them to the realities of gameplay.

 I believe your getting very close to the truth.

Give this man a doughnut

"If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  dave6660

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2487

"Before I speak, I have something important to say."

7/04/12 9:31:10 PM#42
Originally posted by DrWookie
Originally posted by Starpower

The item hunt/build experimentation in Diablo 2 was enough to keep that game running for 10 years. The comment just shows how out of touch Blizzard is. They implementation of skinner box mechanics is just amateurish with a failure to understand what made D2 addictive

It is rather surprising... as I followed development on D3 the more I heard the more i started thinking "Do they really not understand why Diablo 2 was so addictive?". They kept removing everything that links you to your character...which removes the fun and dedication involved in making a hero like in Diablo 2. WIth no choices, and easily accessible items in the auction house all you are left with is the "gameplay" which even in Diablo 2 was rather basic and uninspired. Did they think people really just enjoy playing the same short story multiple times in a row on various difficulty levels? That isn't why people played Diablo 2 and it's rather sad that they didn't realize that.

Well done sir.  That's exactly what I think.

I played D2 for about 5 years.  I played D3 for 2 days.  It was the biggest disappointment in recent memory.

“There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
-- Herman Melville

  User Deleted
7/04/12 10:25:46 PM#43

How many of you are blown away that obvious feature X is the reason it sucks but developers refuse to grasp this concept and change it?

It's not just D3 or blizzard. it's all these games that start to fail, but developers are locked into this concept "if we ignore them it will fix itself" it never does until they act and admit they made something that needs to be fixed.

You never ever see that from devs. i'm not sure why it's so hard to admit it failed until 8 years later when they're removing all traces of a game that made it popular. just strange to me, carry on.

  Grahor

Novice Member

Joined: 5/08/11
Posts: 856

7/05/12 1:51:46 AM#44
Originally posted by jeremyjodes

How many of you are blown away that obvious feature X is the reason it sucks but developers refuse to grasp this concept and change it?

May be it's because it's a very stupid thing to think that games fail because of some single "feature X"? No game has failed because of one feature. Games fail because the combination of their features, joined with demands of current market, make them fail.

 

Any of the former hits will fail in today's market, because the demands of the market has changed. Tastes have changed.

 

For example. Every obsessive-compulsive sick person who craved diablo1-2-style item-hunt have satisfied their craving with D1 and D2. The demand for item-hunt mechanics went down below the treshhold of fun. People simply don't want item-hunt anymore; even the same people who spend years doing it in D2. That's it, end of story. It's not an auction, it's not rmah, it's not pretty much anything. It's just that market demand for item-hunt is satisfied.

  stayBlind

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 537

7/05/12 2:07:05 AM#45
Originally posted by Grahor
Originally posted by jeremyjodes

How many of you are blown away that obvious feature X is the reason it sucks but developers refuse to grasp this concept and change it?

May be it's because it's a very stupid thing to think that games fail because of some single "feature X"? No game has failed because of one feature. Games fail because the combination of their features, joined with demands of current market, make them fail.

 

Any of the former hits will fail in today's market, because the demands of the market has changed. Tastes have changed.

 

For example. Every obsessive-compulsive sick person who craved diablo1-2-style item-hunt have satisfied their craving with D1 and D2. The demand for item-hunt mechanics went down below the treshhold of fun. People simply don't want item-hunt anymore; even the same people who spend years doing it in D2. That's it, end of story. It's not an auction, it's not rmah, it's not pretty much anything. It's just that market demand for item-hunt is satisfied.

So they should just give you all the items in the game when you start, right? That would make the game so much more modern.

Some of us didn't even play because of the item-hunt; we played because we could BUILD characters.

Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  thekid1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/10/05
Posts: 792

7/05/12 4:14:16 AM#46
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Honestly, I was never expecting a "endgame" for D3. I meant yeah it's a ARPG that has a online requirement, but it's no where near mmorpg quality. Maybe this is confusing some people?

I never played a diablo game. But I understand people kept playing Diablo 2 because of the loot. So I think this could be described as end game.

Since Diablo 3 has a gold (and money) warehouse (and I read some "issues" with loot dropping) people don't keep playing for loot. So no end game.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

7/05/12 5:25:51 AM#47

As the fastest selling PC game of all time 6M+ in the first week and in the top 10 selling list for USA still, doubt Blizz is going 'Failure!' anytime soon. :P

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Ruinal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/08
Posts: 196

7/05/12 5:31:28 AM#48

sure jnpz, but a bare fraction of those are still playing. They wanted / still want people playing over a much longer term in order to milk the rmt and possible expansions, instead they killed it with barely any item drops providing a meaningful upgrade or saleable. It launched with exploits which have buggered up the economy and people's expectations of loot, honestly 1.03 should have been the launch build.

  User Deleted
7/05/12 5:31:48 AM#49
Originally posted by Redemp

 They didn't admit to much, they subtlety chalk it up to being the "item hunts" fault. What they should have said was ...

" We made the item hunt,  end game you all were looking forward to a pita, we destroyed that which was fun in Diablo 1 & 2 all in an effort to support our RMAH system. We are sorry , so sorry , please forgive us for destroying the Diablo franchise. "

 

 

I think Kormac says to Jondar that betrayal cannot be forgiven.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

7/05/12 5:36:22 AM#50
Originally posted by Ruinal

sure jnpz, but a bare fraction of those are still playing. They wanted / still want people playing over a much longer term in order to milk the rmt and possible expansions, instead they killed it with barely any item drops providing a meaningful upgrade or saleable. It launched with exploits which have buggered up the economy and people's expectations of loot, honestly 1.03 should have been the launch build.

I doubt they expected the sales numbers so projection wise, D3 is probably above what they expected. Box sales > RMAH

It doesn't take a genius to figure out (if you are Blizz) how many items are in your game and what percentage of players are using 3rd party sites to get items for D2.

Compensate a little more since players will feel secure in dealing with Blizzard rather than 'gold-seller.com' etc.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

7/05/12 5:55:51 AM#51
Originally posted by Mephster

Ouch! Does not look good for Diablo 3 for the long term.

 

Source: http://www.incgamers.com/2012/07/blizzard-admit-failure-of-diablo-3-end-game/

Actually, it does look good. 

They are acknowledging the issues and want to improve the experience.

Blizzard needed to learn this the hard way, that you can't simply deliver the same endgame that you did more than a decade ago. If Diablo 2 released today it would have been a disaster because it was even more simiplified than D3 at launch (its endgame).

 

We need pvp, we need ladders, we need leveling, we need a hard to achieve max level, we need more unique loot, more bosses/acts and more classes, we need legit procedurally generated content not 3-5 version of a dungeon. We need more game modes in general. 

This isnt the 90s people wont just farm four acts for random loot forever anymore like they did when they played Diablo 2.

 

Edit: I would also like to say that as a Diablo 3 player you can't expect Blizzard to deliver D3 content like its a subscription based MMO. You paid for your game and thats it. Blizzard needs a few more patches fixing and adding things and then people need to be happy with that (or leave) and wait for a paid expansion.

 

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

7/05/12 9:14:23 AM#52
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Mephster

Ouch! Does not look good for Diablo 3 for the long term.

 

Source: http://www.incgamers.com/2012/07/blizzard-admit-failure-of-diablo-3-end-game/

Actually, it does look good. 

They are acknowledging the issues and want to improve the experience.

Blizzard needed to learn this the hard way, that you can't simply deliver the same endgame that you did more than a decade ago. If Diablo 2 released today it would have been a disaster because it was even more simiplified than D3 at launch (its endgame).

 

We need pvp, we need ladders, we need leveling, we need a hard to achieve max level, we need more unique loot, more bosses/acts and more classes, we need legit procedurally generated content not 3-5 version of a dungeon. We need more game modes in general. 

This isnt the 90s people wont just farm four acts for random loot forever anymore like they did when they played Diablo 2.

 

Edit: I would also like to say that as a Diablo 3 player you can't expect Blizzard to deliver D3 content like its a subscription based MMO. You paid for your game and thats it. Blizzard needs a few more patches fixing and adding things and then people need to be happy with that (or leave) and wait for a paid expansion.

 

But they didnt deliver the same endgame as a decade ago.

That is the whole point.

Being pessimist, that blizz post reads to me like "well, cars are not powerful enough to haul furniture, my beetle cant do it, ill buy a train".

This means they will go out and about in creating many game modes (expect something like scripted 10mans), but they will leave the fundamental flaws, the reasons why the item game is a failure in d3, but wasnt in d2, in place ("we think the systems surrounding the item hunt are right").

Flame on!

:)

  User Deleted
 
OP  7/05/12 9:18:40 AM#53
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Mephster

Ouch! Does not look good for Diablo 3 for the long term.

 

Source: http://www.incgamers.com/2012/07/blizzard-admit-failure-of-diablo-3-end-game/

Actually, it does look good. 

They are acknowledging the issues and want to improve the experience.

Blizzard needed to learn this the hard way, that you can't simply deliver the same endgame that you did more than a decade ago. If Diablo 2 released today it would have been a disaster because it was even more simiplified than D3 at launch (its endgame).

 

We need pvp, we need ladders, we need leveling, we need a hard to achieve max level, we need more unique loot, more bosses/acts and more classes, we need legit procedurally generated content not 3-5 version of a dungeon. We need more game modes in general. 

This isnt the 90s people wont just farm four acts for random loot forever anymore like they did when they played Diablo 2.

 

Edit: I would also like to say that as a Diablo 3 player you can't expect Blizzard to deliver D3 content like its a subscription based MMO. You paid for your game and thats it. Blizzard needs a few more patches fixing and adding things and then people need to be happy with that (or leave) and wait for a paid expansion.

 

But they didnt deliver the same endgame as a decade ago.

That is the whole point.

Being pessimist, that blizz post reads to me like "well, cars are not powerful enough to haul furniture, my beetle cant do it, ill buy a train".

This means they will go out and about in creating many game modes (expect something like scripted 10mans), but they will leave the fundamental flaws, the reasons why the item game is a failure in d3, but wasnt in d2, in place ("we think the systems surrounding the item hunt are right").

Flame on!

:)

Exactly. They traded the heart and soul of a Diablo game for a RMAH. Epic fail right there.

  Mors-Subita

Novice Member

Joined: 7/04/04
Posts: 466

7/05/12 9:23:51 AM#54
Originally posted by Badaboom

I got D3 expecting a short term fun gaming.  While I did have fun, it was for a lot less time what I was hoping for.  Now I'm looking for something to tie me over until GW2 August 28. 

 

 

PS:  Vanguard is not yet f2p so I will hold off on that but I have been hearing that DayZ is pretty fun.  Any recommendations?

Try continent of the ninth seal (c9)

I've been pleasantly surprised so far... Combat is a lot of fun. I have tried hunter, fighter, and witchblade so far... and out of them fighter is the only one I didn't like (wasn't fluid going from shield attacks to sword attacks).

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

7/05/12 9:21:46 PM#55
Originally posted by DrWookie
Originally posted by Starpower

The item hunt/build experimentation in Diablo 2 was enough to keep that game running for 10 years. The comment just shows how out of touch Blizzard is. They implementation of skinner box mechanics is just amateurish with a failure to understand what made D2 addictive

It is rather surprising... as I followed development on D3 the more I heard the more i started thinking "Do they really not understand why Diablo 2 was so addictive?". They kept removing everything that links you to your character...which removes the fun and dedication involved in making a hero like in Diablo 2. WIth no choices, and easily accessible items in the auction house all you are left with is the "gameplay" which even in Diablo 2 was rather basic and uninspired. Did they think people really just enjoy playing the same short story multiple times in a row on various difficulty levels? That isn't why people played Diablo 2 and it's rather sad that they didn't realize that.

Well, one has to remember, the people who made D3 are a gaming generation removed from the ones who made D1 and D2.  blizzard is a far different company, for better or worse.

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

7/05/12 10:10:50 PM#56
Originally posted by PanDaZmOO

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone can claim this game as a WoW clone.. Not even remotely similar.

 If anything Vanilla WoW was a D2 clone. WoW always reminded me more of Diablo than the Warcraft series. Probably the RPG elements.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21917

7/06/12 11:51:40 AM#57
Originally posted by thekid1
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Honestly, I was never expecting a "endgame" for D3. I meant yeah it's a ARPG that has a online requirement, but it's no where near mmorpg quality. Maybe this is confusing some people?

I never played a diablo game. But I understand people kept playing Diablo 2 because of the loot. So I think this could be described as end game.

Since Diablo 3 has a gold (and money) warehouse (and I read some "issues" with loot dropping) people don't keep playing for loot. So no end game.

Sure the stars aligned, and people kept playing D2. However, this is NOT D2 and it was not marketed as a MMO. I will keep playing if it is still fun, but i have no expectation of an "end-game". This game is not designed to last for years, and it does not need to be. .

  User Deleted
7/06/12 4:08:20 PM#58

If people would remove their blind hate for anything Blizzard does, the world would be a bitter place. 

 

Somehow people blame all gaming ills on Blizzard. ZOMG Blizzard destroyed MMOs! When what they are really saying is "I was enjoying SWG and EQ and then Blizzard made WoW and it was better so everyone left MY game to play WoW! Blizzard ruined MY gaming experience!!"

 

 

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