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General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » General: What's for Sale and What's at Stake

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33 posts found
  rojo6934

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 4546

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

7/06/12 1:24:40 AM#21

as long as they dont sell power (pay to win) im fine with cash shop. I just want them to remove the damn subscription.

...Patiently waiting for TSW to go F2P or B2P to hop in.

"in peace, in sleep under the barren, abandoned soil"

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

7/06/12 1:15:00 PM#22

Here are my rules:

1) I do NOT pre-order. Period.

2) I do NOT take any reviews on sites that accept paid advertising from the companies they review at face value.

3) I do NOT purchase products where the company pushes requirements that adversely impact my enjoyment of the product (i.e. an active internet connection for single player games).

4) I do NOT purchase products where the companies advertisements for DLC/RMT adversely impacts my enjoyment of the core product (i.e. big obnoxious "Visit our Store" buttons popping up all over the UI, game world).

5) I do NOT play games where I feel the RMT has a significant impact on game-play. I have actively dropped games where I felt the publisher tried to push the envelope too far...LOTRO I'm looking at YOU.

6) I generaly won't play a game unless there is some sort of subscription plan available...and that plan provides a good value for the money.

7) I have NOT purchased alot of games lately....and especialy not from big publishers/developers.... I do support smaller/indie publishers when I feel they are treating me with respect as a consumer.

 

In other words as a consumer in this market, I am actively voting with my wallet for the kind of practices I want. I am also perfectly fine with #7....there are a TON of other fun/interesting things to with my time besides playing MMO's and/or games...and there are plenty of other/smaller games that can be quite entertaining. I am, however, perfectly willing to pay a business good money for a high quality product...always have been always will. For instance I would glady pay a publisher a $50 per month subscription for a High Quality game that had ZERO RMT (everything is availble in game only), didn't nickle and dime me to death, valued me as a customer and didn't let thier interest in maximizing proffits overide the customers ability to enjoy the product/service on offer. So far, no publisher seems interested in pursuing that sort of business.

My free time is far too valuable to me to waste on inferior products/services. When I go out to shop for a shotgun, I could buy the $200 Mossberg that jam's every other day and where I get a run-around from the manufacturer if I try to contact them  to address the issue or I could buy the $2000 Weatherby that is crafted to the highest standards and is individualy tested before it ever leaves the factory and they value each customer. I learned a long time ago....if you can afford it, take the Weatherby every time. Unfortunately, as far as MMO's go...(and games in general) everyone is selling Mossbergs, no one is interested in selling Weatherby's.

  Channce

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 497

7/06/12 5:48:37 PM#23

Charge whatever and however you want, I can make my own decision if it's worth it or not.

When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.

  ASpartan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/10
Posts: 24

7/06/12 11:46:06 PM#24

 

For what it is worth in my not so humble opinion, cash shops with sub based games is wrong unless everything in the shop can be acquired by in game currency - at a reasonable price. Moreover continuous additions to the shop (looking at you Cryptic) in the $10+ (micro my ass) range while additions to the general game come every couple months really spoils the feeling for the game. Then there is the near constant pushing of the shop vs pushing or telling the players what is being worked on for the sub aspect of the game. This also spolis the user experience. 
  ariasaitcho

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/12
Posts: 107

7/07/12 2:22:29 AM#25
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Here are my rules:

1) I do NOT pre-order. Period.

2) I do NOT take any reviews on sites that accept paid advertising from the companies they review at face value.

3) I do NOT purchase products where the company pushes requirements that adversely impact my enjoyment of the product (i.e. an active internet connection for single player games).

4) I do NOT purchase products where the companies advertisements for DLC/RMT adversely impacts my enjoyment of the core product (i.e. big obnoxious "Visit our Store" buttons popping up all over the UI, game world).

5) I do NOT play games where I feel the RMT has a significant impact on game-play. I have actively dropped games where I felt the publisher tried to push the envelope too far...LOTRO I'm looking at YOU.

6) I generaly won't play a game unless there is some sort of subscription plan available...and that plan provides a good value for the money.

7) I have NOT purchased alot of games lately....and especialy not from big publishers/developers.... I do support smaller/indie publishers when I feel they are treating me with respect as a consumer.

 

In other words as a consumer in this market, I am actively voting with my wallet for the kind of practices I want. I am also perfectly fine with #7....there are a TON of other fun/interesting things to with my time besides playing MMO's and/or games...and there are plenty of other/smaller games that can be quite entertaining. I am, however, perfectly willing to pay a business good money for a high quality product...always have been always will. For instance I would glady pay a publisher a $50 per month subscription for a High Quality game that had ZERO RMT (everything is availble in game only), didn't nickle and dime me to death, valued me as a customer and didn't let thier interest in maximizing proffits overide the customers ability to enjoy the product/service on offer. So far, no publisher seems interested in pursuing that sort of business.

My free time is far too valuable to me to waste on inferior products/services. When I go out to shop for a shotgun, I could buy the $200 Mossberg that jam's every other day and where I get a run-around from the manufacturer if I try to contact them  to address the issue or I could buy the $2000 Weatherby that is crafted to the highest standards and is individualy tested before it ever leaves the factory and they value each customer. I learned a long time ago....if you can afford it, take the Weatherby every time. Unfortunately, as far as MMO's go...(and games in general) everyone is selling Mossbergs, no one is interested in selling Weatherby's.

There's two reasons why no one is selling "Weatherby" mmos:

1) A large majority of players look for the cheapest value when shopping mmos. If you buy cheap, cheap is what you get.

2) As you pointed out Weatherby's are spendy, but for the right reasons. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford to buy one. So anyone marketing a "Weatherby" mmo is going to have a relatively small market to sell to. Made even smaller by the fact that any mmo isn't going to appeal to all the potential buyers. What this means is any company producing such a top quality product is going to have a hard time recouping expenses. "Build it, and they will come" just isn't going to happen.

 

In your example you mentioned the low quality Mossberg and the top end Weatherby. Ok we've seen the extremes, what about midrange quality? There are plenty of (to use your example) quality shotguns that don't cost an arm and a leg. Sure the quality isn't Weatherby, but they don't jam when you sneeze either. The same is true of mmos.

 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

7/07/12 2:45:16 AM#26
Originally posted by maplestone

You can see the growing distrust in how eagerly people have embraced risky concepts like kickstarter, in how much traction indy games like Minecraft with less publisher-overhead have managed to get.

Desperation and fear and  hate, just more manipulation.

Simple fact is we've got people who find their culturally obsessive consumerism uncomfortable at times.  They don't like marketing, but keep buying products, and spend so much time talking about how much they hate the companies that deliver the products.  Buyer's remorse, caveat emptor raised to the ludicrous level.  And yes, fear...if I spend a buck, I just might be disappointed again...so talk every new release to bloody death instead of taking any risks.

Risk aversion.  You see people spending their entire lives on risk aversion, right here.  And companies, doing the same.

 

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  zellmer

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/09
Posts: 406

7/10/12 3:45:59 AM#27

Fallen Earth........?

I think you need to go back to the game and lookup "G1" especially..

Free players are screwed completely, and even the hardcore paying players left en masse..

 

  OSF8759

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/07
Posts: 288

7/10/12 2:24:47 PM#28

Human beings are bad at reality.

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

7/10/12 3:35:40 PM#29
Originally posted by ariasaitcho
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Here are my rules:

1) I do NOT pre-order. Period.

2) I do NOT take any reviews on sites that accept paid advertising from the companies they review at face value.

3) I do NOT purchase products where the company pushes requirements that adversely impact my enjoyment of the product (i.e. an active internet connection for single player games).

4) I do NOT purchase products where the companies advertisements for DLC/RMT adversely impacts my enjoyment of the core product (i.e. big obnoxious "Visit our Store" buttons popping up all over the UI, game world).

5) I do NOT play games where I feel the RMT has a significant impact on game-play. I have actively dropped games where I felt the publisher tried to push the envelope too far...LOTRO I'm looking at YOU.

6) I generaly won't play a game unless there is some sort of subscription plan available...and that plan provides a good value for the money.

7) I have NOT purchased alot of games lately....and especialy not from big publishers/developers.... I do support smaller/indie publishers when I feel they are treating me with respect as a consumer.

 

In other words as a consumer in this market, I am actively voting with my wallet for the kind of practices I want. I am also perfectly fine with #7....there are a TON of other fun/interesting things to with my time besides playing MMO's and/or games...and there are plenty of other/smaller games that can be quite entertaining. I am, however, perfectly willing to pay a business good money for a high quality product...always have been always will. For instance I would glady pay a publisher a $50 per month subscription for a High Quality game that had ZERO RMT (everything is availble in game only), didn't nickle and dime me to death, valued me as a customer and didn't let thier interest in maximizing proffits overide the customers ability to enjoy the product/service on offer. So far, no publisher seems interested in pursuing that sort of business.

My free time is far too valuable to me to waste on inferior products/services. When I go out to shop for a shotgun, I could buy the $200 Mossberg that jam's every other day and where I get a run-around from the manufacturer if I try to contact them  to address the issue or I could buy the $2000 Weatherby that is crafted to the highest standards and is individualy tested before it ever leaves the factory and they value each customer. I learned a long time ago....if you can afford it, take the Weatherby every time. Unfortunately, as far as MMO's go...(and games in general) everyone is selling Mossbergs, no one is interested in selling Weatherby's.

There's two reasons why no one is selling "Weatherby" mmos:

1) A large majority of players look for the cheapest value when shopping mmos. If you buy cheap, cheap is what you get.

2) As you pointed out Weatherby's are spendy, but for the right reasons. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford to buy one. So anyone marketing a "Weatherby" mmo is going to have a relatively small market to sell to. Made even smaller by the fact that any mmo isn't going to appeal to all the potential buyers. What this means is any company producing such a top quality product is going to have a hard time recouping expenses. "Build it, and they will come" just isn't going to happen.

 

In your example you mentioned the low quality Mossberg and the top end Weatherby. Ok we've seen the extremes, what about midrange quality? There are plenty of (to use your example) quality shotguns that don't cost an arm and a leg. Sure the quality isn't Weatherby, but they don't jam when you sneeze either. The same is true of mmos.

 

The thing that has me a little confused is that "high volume sales" isn't the only business model that's proffitable. Weatherby itself proves that as a company....they market to a much smaller market segment then Mossberg does....but it doesn't matter that Mossberg might sell 10 times as many units as Weatherby does....because EACH unit sold by Weatherby earns Weatherby 10 times the proffit that a unit of Mossbergs does....in the end, Weatherby is just as proffitable (or more) then Mossberg as a company even though they might have a much smaller market.

So I'm a bit confused why no one is it at least trying the "Luxuary" business model as far as MMO's go...If you can charge 3-5 times as much as the standard models....then you can be equaly or even more proffitable with 1/3rd to 1/5th the customer base. It strikes me as odd that no ones at least experimented with such a model.

  BereKin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/12
Posts: 285

7/11/12 7:52:51 AM#30

Cash shops are good for companies and there business, but its bad for gameplay and communities. Only bright example that I know of is Arenanet with there cash shop in GW and upcoming GW2. They are selling things that are purely cosmetic in nature and they say thats the way cash shop in GW2 will work also, just cosmetic items and some bonus accoutrements that wont effect actual gameplay in any way.

  Calintz333

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 1177

TWILIGHT ONION!

7/12/12 9:05:48 AM#31

I would personally never play an mmorpg that had both a cash shop be it cosmetic or not and a subscription fee or a paid game. Games like (Guild wars 2 and Tera) are examples of the types of games I would not play simply because I believe the pricing model is unethical. 

If this means that eventually there will not be an mmorpg for me left to play then so be it. There are plenty of fun gaming alternatives to mmos and I have already begun that gaming transition. 

I do not like where the mmo industry is going and what is forseable for the future. The more mmorpg games move away from the traditional $15/mo subscription fee the more I intend to avoid this genre. 

  Jaedor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 734

7/12/12 3:37:46 PM#32

Personally, I'm fine with a subscription and an optional cash shop. Over years in WoW and LOTRO, I've found excellent value in the sub (especially with discounts!) and only rarely buy anything requiring cash.

 

Looking at what was offered in WoW, I used a server transfer and I bought the sparkle pony. Both were good values at the time, though I frankly never considered them cash shop items. In LOTRO, my annual sub for $99 provides a ton of benefit including 500 Turbine points every month that I can save or spend as I wish; I don't spend money on anything but the sub. And in The Secret World, I have a sub but no interest in the cash shop clothes.

 

So to me, this is really a personal preference thing but I see no need for most all of the cash shop offerings so they don't impact me at all.

  Gruug

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 1093

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

7/14/12 10:11:47 AM#33

I NEVER purchase anything from a "cash shop" regardless. If you are paying a sub, you aren't going to get you money's worth or value of your sub by spending even MORE MONEY in such a shop. In a so-called "f2P" model (hate that term "free-to-play"), you can end up spending FAR MORE MONEY then if they just gave it to you as part of your subscription. If a game is subscription only, at least I KNOW what I am getting for the money I put up front. In all the others I only know that I am being taken to the cleaners.

Let's party like it is 1863!

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