Originally posted by Zikari

I don't like the article, the people saying it is being to positive are right, you are giving them the doubt o n all the items on the edge. Don't get me wrong, I have preordered it and was very happy with what I played during the last 3 beta weekends. But to be fair, things like Character Creation and some of the animations are flawed and look cheap, no point in arguing about it.

......

In Summary, no point in talking away the flaws, but I think a lot of players see the shiny side much brighter like I do.

Edited for length.

Just wanted to give a +1, and welcome to the forums.

It's nice to see people with a more objective / realistic view-point on certain things. I think you're pretty spot on with both the strengths and weakness' for this title. I hope people who are unsure w/ this one are finding posts like yours, because I feel like it paints a much more accurate set of expectations than the article does.

I've had an eye on this game for a while, but waited until near release to really check it out. Not interested in betas. From what I'm hearing it seems like it might not be my kind of game. Linear, loading screens, small world and cutscenes? I don't suppose you can walk from one end of the world to the other then? Are there different areas all cut off from each other? Is there nothing explorable? Also, whats the crafting and trade like?

Suzie is confusing casual/hardcore players with more/less intelligent players. Understanding "ability wheel" system and finding good "build" doesn't require grinding 8 hours/day, it requires ability to think and analyze. It has nothing to do with players beeing casual/hardcore.

I'm a casual player and I found the game to be fun and different. I've tried a LOT of MMO's, and haven't really gotten into any of them.

It has its flaws, but every game does, the question to me was: "Am I willing to accept the flaws and play anyway."

After playign the Beta rather sparingly (I spent more time looking for holes in the geometry and looking for missing textures) as far as quests went (I learned in Kingsmouth I didn't want to go too far into the quest chains before launch) I found myself looking forward to playing.

The community was helpful, the GM's were quick to respond to a problem (Oops, I fell through the geometry/am stuck again) and nice about it, which was a pleasant change from waiting for 3 hours for a GM to help me out.

The character creator issues are "Meh" to me because honestly, who really looks at their own characters or others outside of City of Heroes Costume Contests? When was the last time you went up to someone and said "Nice outfit" or "Nice face!"

As for grouping, well, I play MMO's and MP games with a group of friends, so that wasn't an issue to me.

What was, was I liked the world, I liked the quest chains, I liked the organic feel to the game.

Is it going to be for everyone? I highly doubt it. Will everything be Go at lauch? I doubt it.

If you didn't get in on Beta, wait until a free weekend like Starwars had. Be like some of my friends and wait a month or two to see how well they're fixing things.

It's 50 bucks, and in this economy, hell, that's a tank of case and a case of beer.

I liked it, and I'm a casual gamer. You might not.

Originally posted by Zikari

- not as polished as it could be, there are questbugs and technical issues still present (as of BW4) and players will run into them. Bit disappointed bout this, but nothing really gamebreaking (except maybe the equipment manager that is unable to save sets correctly)

I had some closed beta players on my Beta Weekend server.

All of them pretty much agreed on the suspicions that the quests ended up "buggy" during Beta Weekend 3 + 4, due to the fact that Funcom had disabled the Investigation quests and that this somehow had an effect on some of the other quests.

Because the quests that were "temperamentful" during the Beta Weekend, worked fine in their closed beta sessions.

No idea if they were correct with their suspicion, but it seems reasonable enough, considering how intertwined coding sometimes is in games, and how doing one thing can break another aspect.

No idea about the gear manager, I really didn't bother too much with that, nor did I ask them any questions about it, because of my disinterest in that aspect.

Originally posted by TellusMars

They have not the full character creation for the beta as I have heard and the beta is a

beta and most of the big features is not in place for the beta it's like giving away the

game before it is in the shop.

 

 

I'm sorry but the "there is a better version, they just aren't letting us see it" is the bigfoot legend of MMO Betas. It is a load of BS, pure and simple.

They keep stuff out of the OPEN beta weekends...and there are a few locked quest lines/abilities for the closed beta people...but when people from the closed beta are telling you that some game system is lacking/broken/poorly done they are talking about the version of it that is going to be in the retail launch.

TSW is playable and has some features that will attract some gamers...it also has some huge gaps and badly done elements that are going to turn off a whole lot more...and that's not going to change in the less than seven days before launch.

Originally posted by ericbelser

Originally posted by TellusMars

They have not the full character creation for the beta as I have heard and the beta is a

beta and most of the big features is not in place for the beta it's like giving away the

game before it is in the shop.

 

 

I'm sorry but the "there is a better version, they just aren't letting us see it" is the bigfoot legend of MMO Betas. It is a load of BS, pure and simple.

They keep stuff out of the OPEN beta weekends...and there are a few locked quest lines/abilities for the closed beta people...but when people from the closed beta are telling you that some game system is lacking/broken/poorly done they are talking about the version of it that is going to be in the retail launch.

TSW is playable and has some features that will attract some gamers...it also has some huge gaps and badly done elements that are going to turn off a whole lot more...and that's not going to change in the less than seven days before launch.

 

Now, the same paragraph without the obvious bias:

TSW is playable and has a few core features that are excellent, and that some gamers will absolutely love...it also has some core features that that are not well done, and that some players will absolutely hate...and that's not going to change in the less than 7 days before launch.

Still chuckling at the people touting how "cerebral" the game is. Clicking on puzzles or knowing VIvaldi for a "spring" composer does not make it a MENSA game any more than Counterstrike.

You could as easily say knowing the combat pattern of a complex boss mob in a raid is just as cerebral as the puzzle solving ,

[mod edit]

With Funcom's track record I don't expect them to address any of these issues timely or efficiently.  Hopefully they prove me wrong because two horrible launches should have taught them more than enough lessons. 

I also feel betas are being treated as simply marketing objectives now instead of actual proper feedback and testing.  Funcom isn't the only one guilty of it but it's even more apparent when they are touting their beta numbers as an advertising bullet point.

Good luck to all those who have purchased.  I'll be on the sideline eating my popcorn watching all hell break loose.

should've 'rated' these elements based on what they are, not what they might be some day.

char creation is neutral IF they improve it? just say its subpar, if thats what it is currently.

one of the smartest things funcom did was to put the skills on a circle, rather than a straight line that says 'hammers', a second line that says 'magic' etc.  to give the illusion it isnt a skill tree we have seen in near every other game. just look at how people gush over the innovatove skill WHEEL lol

If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

Given the state of MMOs, TSW may not be perfect, but it's not bad either.  I agree with most of the dissenting opinions on combat and character creation, and to a degree with the linearity of the world.  However, the unique story and general mechanics are solid for an early release game. 

My only concern is Funcom's history (i.e. Age of Conan).  I'm willing to give them another chance and play TSW for the initial month.  I figure in the least the story will be entertaining enough.

Originally posted by octa

With Funcom's track record I don't expect them to address any of these issues timely or efficiently.  Hopefully they prove me wrong because two horrible launches should have taught them more than enough lessons. 

I also feel betas are being treated as simply marketing objectives now instead of actual proper feedback and testing.  Funcom isn't the only one guilty of it but it's even more apparent when they are touting their beta numbers as an advertising bullet point.

Good luck to all those who have purchased.  I'll be on the sideline eating my popcorn watching all hell break loose.

closed beta was remarkable as far as addressing concerns. They really changed issues even issues that didn't happen often. Open beta events like the weekends are merely for stress testing and honestly most of the bugs I personally witnessed was just spawn timer bugs. I also don't get your logic basically if you can have the potential market of the game saying its a great game that is the best type of marketing.  

I like how the "make or break" features are all aesthetics and stupid crap that doesn't matter. What about the actual game play? What about so many quests having broken game breaking bugs in them? And this is just in the FIRST zone, which should have the most polish ...

That is what was lacking for me. Sure, the quests, puzzles and world seems awesome ... but the skills and combat? You spam 2 buttoms the entire time. I hope people enjoy it, I really do, but it didn't grab my attention during the time I played it. May pick this up sometime later this year, we'll see!

Originally posted by MattVid

I like how the "make or break" features are all aesthetics and stupid crap that doesn't matter. What about the actual game play? What about so many quests having broken game breaking bugs in them? And this is just in the FIRST zone, which should have the most polish ...

That is what was lacking for me. Sure, the quests, puzzles and world seems awesome ... but the skills and combat? You spam 2 buttoms the entire time. I hope people enjoy it, I really do, but it didn't grab my attention during the time I played it. May pick this up sometime later this year, we'll see!

there was not even game breaking bugs in the first zone? If you're playing combat that way then you're playing the game wrong. 

Originally posted by SlickShoes

The character creator surely has to be a resounding negative!? It is sorely lacking for a game released in 2012.

I do like the game but that is an inescapable fact, the game also will not make it BIG, as alluded to in the title, it will be a niche game. Ofcourse at launch I am sure we will see huge numbers of the usual "play every mmo at release and then moan about it on forums and general chat" crowd. 

Unless the charactor creation has been upgraded alot since the last beta weekend, then this is very very true. It is the single reason I am not buying the game at release. I just cant play a game that i am not able to make a char look the way I want (atleast in general appearence) After all TSW you can't even make your male  character bald... how basic is that and you cant do it?

I hope it changes because over all (if i had been able to get into it) I think TSW has alot to offer down the rode.

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by SlickShoes

The character creator surely has to be a resounding negative!? It is sorely lacking for a game released in 2012.

I do like the game but that is an inescapable fact, the game also will not make it BIG, as alluded to in the title, it will be a niche game. Ofcourse at launch I am sure we will see huge numbers of the usual "play every mmo at release and then moan about it on forums and general chat" crowd. 

Unless the charactor creation has been upgraded alot since the last beta weekend, then this is very very true. It is the single reason I am not buying the game at release. I just cant play a game that i am not able to make a char look the way I want (atleast in general appearence) After all TSW you can't even make your male  character bald... how basic is that and you cant do it?

 

I hope it changes because over all (if i had been able to get into it) I think TSW has alot to offer down the rode.

There is now a bald hairstyle choice, I noticed it in the last beta weekend, however the character creator is still bad. I was able to make 1 character I like that look of that I usually make in every game so that was good for me, but every one i tried to make after that looked like my main one because all of the other choices were so ridiculous looking I couldnt take most of them seriously!

To myself everything in a game matters but these are a good starting point to discuss.

Customization....Seems to be that most correlate this to mean only visual,it should be one of the least concerning things in a game.Gear will cover everything but the face so about  20% of the visual even matters.I think Aion which set the internet a blaze with it's character creation is proof enough that it is not a make or break because gamers soon left in drones.Customization should go well beyond just the visual of a face.

navigation...I think this falls hand in hand with fast gratification players.The ones who just want to have a fun time gaming,will not care one bit PROOF [FFXI] the ones who need self gratification and very quick[mainly the ones who care about a level number]yes they will want easy navigation,even if it means unrealistic or a contradiction to the LORE of the game.

skill wheel...Yep it matters a lot,i have not seen many developers do it right.So if TSW does it right for it's fans it surely will make a lot of happy gamers.

Grouping...I think it is not even open for debate but gamers aside from when i played FFXI,would rather solo.This has been proven on forums and in games.

Questing...Yes it is pretty much standard content,how it is presented is imo very important.Most games do nothing more than produce a VERY linear set of questing hubs,to me it is extremely boring,i want freedom in all of my game.I do not like to feel like i have to follow a set of markers over npc heads all around a game.

Combat animations.....Well i like animations a LOT,but i feel this like Character customization is leaning towards the less significant.To me the player animations are a factor yes but the actual effects and particles of combat mean a lot as well.Most of the time i have read on forums the same answer over and over "the game matters more".Usually what they do is for example the arms only move at the shoulder joint,rarely the shoudler and elbow.They also seem to have only a few frames like forward/mid/back ,a good animation needs at least 12-30 frames.

Two additions i will add

The achivements are done a little too cheap for me,they should fee llike an achievment,killing something 10x is NOT an achievement unless it is a RARE boss spawn or something.

Lore...I like the effort  they are trying to put into the lore,most games just toss it togther but they aretrying to make it all fit together in game,that is good stuff.

Originally posted by MattVid

I like how the "make or break" features are all aesthetics and stupid crap that doesn't matter. What about the actual game play? What about so many quests having broken game breaking bugs in them? And this is just in the FIRST zone, which should have the most polish ...

That is what was lacking for me. Sure, the quests, puzzles and world seems awesome ... but the skills and combat? You spam 2 buttoms the entire time. I hope people enjoy it, I really do, but it didn't grab my attention during the time I played it. May pick this up sometime later this year, we'll see!

Well - I guess it's possible to play the combat that way if you want. I can tell you that from personal experience, pressing two buttons over and over again while standing still is probably going to be less efficient than circle strafing and attacking (with 2 or more attacks.)

You could certainly just build resources and use a finisher over and over and be done with it. However, there are other things you can do to increase your damage output that will require using more than two attacks. Whether one method is more "optimal" versus another is something I can't say, because I never did the math.

I'll give you an example of a combat scenario I've seen happen when I was in the beta weekends:

You're fighting an enemy, a named quest boss(the non bosses are kinda easy peasy and you can usually just stand still and spam sillyness on them and win.)

You use an attack that builds a resource for your primary and secondary weapon (you have two different weapons you can equip at once) You drop your finisher for your primary resource, let's say that somewhere in your resource building activity you managed to land a status effect or a DoT because of one of the passives you've got equipped. You now have the option of either dropping your second finisher for your secondary resource pool, or you can use an attack that will exploit the status effect for additional damage (which can then build a resource for the primary pool you just consumed from and give you the opportunity to use your first pool's finisher again.)

While you're thinking about this (or if you're not, because you can certainly just concentrate on one builder and one finisher) you're watching your enemy for any attacks (s)he makes and you're trying to dodge it to avoid taking too much damage that you can't outheal quickly. Let's say you get hit hard though because the enemy put out a pretty large area effect damage attack - you have to now decide to continue dpsing to kill it before you die (if you can) or you can heal yourself (which stops you from doing any damage)

The combat can be as simple if you want it to be, or as complex as you want. I can see a point being made for both sides.

 I keep seeing Tera mentioned for "see what you are missing" I was so geeked out for Tera. Felt bored and forced for the first 25 levels, got better, but the action combat isn't really that fun. I quit along with several of my friends, good game for sure. Bland world and action combat with the same clicks for every match, except pvp which we were only a little into so if pvp is your thing perhaps it makes more of a difference to you, being mostly pve i don't have the experience to say. The combat system matters, but I find its the game as a whole that matters more, I had more fun playing Aion (downloaded it recently) despite its generic combat than Tera. Star Wars I really wanted to like, and I tried, it felt labored from the start. I enjoyed TSW, its not fantastic, but it has potential and the world is really well done.

I disagree with a couple of the points:

Character Creator

For me, this was a negative. We have games out nowadays where you can really tweak your character to look exactly how you want. I just couldn't do that in this game. I couldn't even get close.

Grouping

I really couldn't believe that you gave this is a win because they promised to improve this in the future. What ever happened to reporting on a game in it's current state rather than what it might be at some point in the future? You're a better journalist than that, Suzie.

Combat Animations

They're not great. It's been agreed far and wide that they're not great. They're improving, but once again you've rated this feature based on a promise by Funcom that things will get better, and I just can't get behind that.

The rest of the points I can agree with: questing was pretty unique, navigation was cool, and the skill wheel could go either way.