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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Wait no one has played more than 500 hours?

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62 posts found
  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

6/27/12 5:21:29 PM#21


Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by SEANMCAD GUYS! all your points or valid but consider EVERYTHING the OP is saying. 1. its been in development for 5 years. 2. nobody (not all or some but nobody) has played 500 hours.   yes we know a game that is in development doesnt get played but its almost completed for christ sake!   why do so many people have such a hard time absorbing the main points in something.
Maybe the guy with 499 hours was reassigned to a different department?
if you want to take zenimax's side then yeah that is the position you should take. I on the other hand will take the position that zenimax are morons and its more than like maybe 50 hours but yeah, you are welcome to that position if that is the one you feel more comfortable with
Really this is about "taking sides" on a game in development?   How about maybe the hours played reset based on the current build or maybe this issue about hours played is a non issue?
you tell me. its your position that seems to not be clear.

you think its 499 hours or you think its a non issue?

My thought is with it 5 years of dev time asking for 500 hours of total game play near the 'now' phases of development is fairly reasonable request. If it was the first few years I would agree that 500 hours is not being fair


aleady answered. testing != playing. semantics is the likely culprit.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

6/27/12 5:22:21 PM#22


Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by SEANMCAD GUYS! all your points or valid but consider EVERYTHING the OP is saying. 1. its been in development for 5 years. 2. nobody (not all or some but nobody) has played 500 hours.   yes we know a game that is in development doesnt get played but its almost completed for christ sake!   why do so many people have such a hard time absorbing the main points in something.
Maybe the guy with 499 hours was reassigned to a different department?
if you want to take zenimax's side then yeah that is the position you should take. I on the other hand will take the position that zenimax are morons and its more than like maybe 50 hours but yeah, you are welcome to that position if that is the one you feel more comfortable with
Really this is about "taking sides" on a game in development?   How about maybe the hours played reset based on the current build or maybe this issue about hours played is a non issue?
you tell me. its your position that seems to not be clear. you think its 499 hours or you think its a non issue? My thought is with it 5 years of dev time asking for 500 hours of total game play near the 'now' phases of development is fairly reasonable request. If it was the first few years I would agree that 500 hours is not being fair
i think it's moronic to be worried about hours played on a game in development period.


and then theres that .. :)

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 750

6/27/12 5:34:33 PM#23

A lot of people making a lot of excuses and trying to justify a statement that simply sheds light on how ZOS develops their games.

Game Design 101: Iterate as early and as often as possible.

I've racked up just shy of 400 hours in Skyrim since its release.  I am not testing it or trying to find bugs/weaknesses.  I am just playing the game, having fun, and being immersed in the world.  I have a full-time job too, friends and family, a girlfriend, and I've still found time for this game.

If none of their 250-person team are dedicated testers (maybe even just 1 guy) then they are in the stone age of game development.  And the fact that they ADMIT it shows that they are terrible at PR.

In contrast to Bethesda who played Skyrim daily from the very get-go, as soon as there was something playable.  You give your team a build each weekend, they go play and test or not and give feedback come Monday.

This is really simple basic stuff that an open dev team would have no issue doing.  See Valve and Bethesda for examples of this.

ZOS on the other hand is a factory, churning out mind-numbing mass-marketed schlock.  So it's no wonder no-one has played the game more than 500 hours, because they can't be bothered.  It isn't compelling enough.  it isn't empassioned enough.

It is a blatant, cash-in.  Watch those guys during interviews, they are barely able to crack a smile when they talk about "cool features the MMO kids are gonna love."

It's really sad.

On the other hand, the statement sounds like a generalization, he clearly doesn't know 100%.  He's definitely NOT making a distinction between "playing" and "testing."  That's another defensive justification.

All the reports from E3 about how the game looked and played did leave me with one nagging question: what the hell have those 250 people been doing for the past 5 years?

  User Deleted
6/27/12 6:06:04 PM#24

I can imagine what the mentality is, " Oh it is The Elder Scrolls people will buy it anyway"...

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

6/27/12 6:08:43 PM#25

Let me quote Stephen Colbert:

That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up.

Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.

I have a feeling that a lot of you here use your gut to form your arguments against games. No need to know anything about the development process, or silly things like how the game plays. Your gut is all the fact you need.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1123

6/27/12 6:22:39 PM#26
Originally posted by nilden

"Paul Sage: I think, for us, it’s really a matter of making sure the game feels fresh right away. I can’t say more to how it feels after you’ve played 500 hours. No one at the office has played 500 hours."

That's 20 days. They have 250 employees.

The Elder Scrolls Online has been in development for 5 years prior to its announcement in May 2012.

Honestly would not be surprised if there were people working at Zenimax who had never even played an Elder Scrolls game.

Sources:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/11/interview-zenimax-defends-elder-scrolls-online/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Online

I wouldnt be surprised if there were people at Zenimax working on TESO who have never played a MMO

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

6/27/12 6:44:10 PM#27


Originally posted by Entinerint
A lot of people making a lot of excuses and trying to justify a statement that simply sheds light on how ZOS develops their games.

Game Design 101: Iterate as early and as often as possible.

I've racked up just shy of 400 hours in Skyrim since its release.  I am not testing it or trying to find bugs/weaknesses.  I am just playing the game, having fun, and being immersed in the world.  I have a full-time job too, friends and family, a girlfriend, and I've still found time for this game.

If none of their 250-person team are dedicated testers (maybe even just 1 guy) then they are in the stone age of game development.  And the fact that they ADMIT it shows that they are terrible at PR.

In contrast to Bethesda who played Skyrim daily from the very get-go, as soon as there was something playable.  You give your team a build each weekend, they go play and test or not and give feedback come Monday.

This is really simple basic stuff that an open dev team would have no issue doing.  See Valve and Bethesda for examples of this.

ZOS on the other hand is a factory, churning out mind-numbing mass-marketed schlock.  So it's no wonder no-one has played the game more than 500 hours, because they can't be bothered.  It isn't compelling enough.  it isn't empassioned enough.

It is a blatant, cash-in.  Watch those guys during interviews, they are barely able to crack a smile when they talk about "cool features the MMO kids are gonna love."

It's really sad.

On the other hand, the statement sounds like a generalization, he clearly doesn't know 100%.  He's definitely NOT making a distinction between "playing" and "testing."  That's another defensive justification.

All the reports from E3 about how the game looked and played did leave me with one nagging question: what the hell have those 250 people been doing for the past 5 years?


im not defending anything really. i dont know jack about this mmo and the only scrolls game I played was Skyrim and I only played for a week. Wasnt terribly impressed .. but then I dont play single player games .. well unless you count modern mmos as single player games .. which i wouldnt blame you for doing.

but he was quite obviously talking about playing the game, which as has been stated is very different than testing/coding. this 24 hour news mentality where every syllable is scrutinized to mean 1000s of different things is really getting tired.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

6/27/12 6:48:26 PM#28


Originally posted by Mephster
I can imagine what the mentality is, " Oh it is The Elder Scrolls people will buy it anyway"...

cant argue with that .. but then that is the industry right now : buy IP, fart out some code and graphics, ???, profit, f2p, profit some more.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

6/27/12 8:14:28 PM#29

HAHA you guys are funny as shit with these one line quotes.

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 750

6/27/12 8:15:36 PM#30

Originally posted by azmundai

im not defending anything really. i dont know jack about this mmo and the only scrolls game I played was Skyrim and I only played for a week. Wasnt terribly impressed .. but then I dont play single player games .. well unless you count modern mmos as single player games .. which i wouldnt blame you for doing.

but he was quite obviously talking about playing the game, which as has been stated is very different than testing/coding. this 24 hour news mentality where every syllable is scrutinized to mean 1000s of different things is really getting tired.

Red and Blue are in direct opposition.  You say people shouldn't scrutinize a comment right after scrutinizing it.

He wasn't obviously talking about JUST playing it.  He was talking about logging hours.  No one has spent more than 500 hours on the game, playing or testing, doesn't matter.  In context, no one on the team has logged 500 hours on the game. 

Then again, the most likely explanation is that he's pulling that number out of his ass and doesn;t actually know for sure.

Originally posted by azmundai

 


Originally posted by Mephster
I can imagine what the mentality is, " Oh it is The Elder Scrolls people will buy it anyway"...

 

cant argue with that .. but then that is the industry right now : buy IP, fart out some code and graphics, ???, profit, f2p, profit some more.

Sad to see one of the greatest and most unique WRPG franchises get sucked into that machine, but perhaps we TES fans expected too much.

I imagine this mentality is going to bite them in the ass, hard.

Originally posted by rygard49

Let me quote Stephen Colbert:

That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up.

Now, I know some of you are going to say, "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.

I have a feeling that a lot of you here use your gut to form your arguments against games. No need to know anything about the development process, or silly things like how the game plays. Your gut is all the fact you need.

There is a metric shit-ton of info on this game.  More than we had for SWTOR by the time we figured out pretty much everything about it.  Just because you haven't done any research or read anything about it and have nothing to go on but your "gut" doesn't mean you should judge everyone by those standards.

I personally know more than enough about the development process to know how it should run and, by contrast, how it does run.

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

6/27/12 8:17:50 PM#31

I doubt it, I think the game will turn out pretty good.

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 750

6/27/12 8:18:58 PM#32
Originally posted by Fearum

I doubt it, I think the game will turn out pretty good.

Why?

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

6/27/12 8:19:40 PM#33

Why not?

Because OBVIOUSLY if they don't have to test it that much its a flawless game

  rdrakken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

6/27/12 8:24:02 PM#34
Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Doesn't surprise me noone has played 500 hours on a game that is still in development.

 You clearly know NOTHING about game development.

I have Alpha tested several MMOs, Asherons Call 1, Asherons Call 2 and Star Wars Galaxies and in each of them the Development team has people inside the testing with the FEW, and there ARE few Alpha testers. This is REQUIRED as there is so much that is wrong with the coding that the MUST find the heart of the problems quickly. Even in early Beta stage 1, there are developers part of the testing, like there was in LoTRo and EQ2. Normally it isnt until late beta stage 2 or Open betas that the devs stop logging into the game.

This is the reason why the mouthbreathers arent let in until mid/late Beta...because they cannot rely on most people to do anything worth a damn for the development of the game. Most of you dont even know what data compiling is let alone how to do it to help test a game...and that is just the basics actual testing.

  Ichmen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 1236

hatred enriches.life is a prison, death a release.

6/27/12 8:24:05 PM#35

did you take in to account, different test builds when you started to argue symantics on playing vs testing??

no one may have put 500hrs in to build 0.3 but that doesnt mean they havent spent 1000hrs testing builds 0.0-0.2. fact of the matter is, a dev does not just login and play until closer to a final build is ready. (look at forsaken world, they spend days fixing 1 bit of code in a build)

so those years spent on the game, does not instantly work out to day 1 playing.. they very well may have spent 2yrs just getting the game eng to work correctly without crashing or memory leaking.  then another 1-2yrs setting up the basic actions.  kinda hard to "play" a game when there is no game to play... 

so in his statement of hours logged playing the game, he very well may be implying it to this current more finished build (aka this year worth of testing) and not the overall years spent building and scrapping test builds or hours spent fixing 1 line of code.

 

ofcourse this is all hear say and speculation as no one works on the game that are posting here, so we will never know. and frankly does it really matter? just because their devs did not invest 500+hrs playing their game during development is no red flag that the game is great /or shat just means the devs had more important things to do then roll a toon just to get to end game..

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  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1304

6/27/12 8:33:39 PM#36
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

 

why do so many people have such a hard time absorbing the main points in something.

I don't think the question is why do they have a hard time getting the point. The implications of what the OP says is pretty clear. I'd be surprised if anyone reading it doesn't understand the point the OP is making.

I think the better question is why do people have such a hard time conceding the point being made.

Of course, the answer to that question is so obvious and has been demonstrated by so many people, about so many games, it's almost pointless to even ask.

It's the same mentality shared by people who defend D3 requiring a persistent online connection even to play single player mode, because it's Diablo, and because Blizzard made it.

It's the same mentality shared by people who defended all the glaring shortcomings of TOR because it's Star Wars and because Bioware made it.

It's the same mentality shared by people who defended the mess that FFXIV was at launch, because it was a Final Fantasy title and SE made it. Even with SE coming out and saying "we screwed up, we've lost your trust and now we intend to get it back", even after the entire team having to be rebuilt almost from scratch, and almost the entire game remade, there are still people defending the original FFXIV "vision", for no other reason than they like the game and/or SE, and so, they feel they must defend everything they do, even if it's indefensible.

It's the same mentality shared by anyone who doesn't seem to understand that liking a game and/or its developer does not require them to defend everything they do and attack any criticism of them or their products, especially when the criticism is valid and widely agreed upon. The same people who don't realize that loyalty to a company or IP does not have to be blind loyalty to it.

Over the course of 5 years developing a game, there should certainly be tons of playtime that goes into it. Either during development, or during daily play-tests, which many developers do partake in as a matter of the process.

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 750

6/27/12 8:36:56 PM#37
Originally posted by Ichmen

did you take in to account, different test builds when you started to argue symantics on playing vs testing??

no one may have put 500hrs in to build 0.3 but that doesnt mean they havent spent 1000hrs testing builds 0.0-0.2. fact of the matter is, a dev does not just login and play until closer to a final build is ready. (look at forsaken world, they spend days fixing 1 bit of code in a build)

so those years spent on the game, does not instantly work out to day 1 playing.. they very well may have spent 2yrs just getting the game eng to work correctly without crashing or memory leaking.  then another 1-2yrs setting up the basic actions.  kinda hard to "play" a game when there is no game to play... 

so in his statement of hours logged playing the game, he very well may be implying it to this current more finished build (aka this year worth of testing) and not the overall years spent building and scrapping test builds or hours spent fixing 1 line of code.

 

ofcourse this is all hear say and speculation as no one works on the game that are posting here, so we will never know. and frankly does it really matter? just because their devs did not invest 500+hrs playing their game during development is no red flag that the game is great /or shat just means the devs had more important things to do then roll a toon just to get to end game..

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call "over-analyzation."

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

6/27/12 8:37:35 PM#38
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

 

why do so many people have such a hard time absorbing the main points in something.

I don't think the question is why do they have a hard time getting the point. The implications of what the OP says is pretty clear. I'd be surprised if anyone reading it doesn't understand the point the OP is making.

I think the better question is why do people have such a hard time conceding the point being made.

Of course, the answer to that question is so obvious and has been demonstrated by so many people, about so many games, it's almost pointless to even ask.

It's the same mentality shared by people who defend D3 requiring a persistent online connection even to play single player mode, because it's Diablo, and because Blizzard made it.

It's the same mentality shared by people who defended all the glaring shortcomings of TOR because it's Star Wars and because Bioware made it.

It's the same mentality shared by people who defended the mess that FFXIV was at launch, because it was a Final Fantasy title and SE made it.

It's the same mentality shared by anyone who doesn't seem to understand that liking a game and/or its developer does not require them to defend everything they do and attack any criticism of them or their products. The same people who don't realize that loyalty to a company or IP does not have to be blind loyalty to it.

Over the course of 5 years developing a game, there should certainly be tons of playtime that goes into it. Either during development, or during daily play-tests, which many developers do partake in as a matter of the process.

What is the point of this thread?

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

6/27/12 8:38:20 PM#39
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Ichmen

did you take in to account, different test builds when you started to argue symantics on playing vs testing??

no one may have put 500hrs in to build 0.3 but that doesnt mean they havent spent 1000hrs testing builds 0.0-0.2. fact of the matter is, a dev does not just login and play until closer to a final build is ready. (look at forsaken world, they spend days fixing 1 bit of code in a build)

so those years spent on the game, does not instantly work out to day 1 playing.. they very well may have spent 2yrs just getting the game eng to work correctly without crashing or memory leaking.  then another 1-2yrs setting up the basic actions.  kinda hard to "play" a game when there is no game to play... 

so in his statement of hours logged playing the game, he very well may be implying it to this current more finished build (aka this year worth of testing) and not the overall years spent building and scrapping test builds or hours spent fixing 1 line of code.

 

ofcourse this is all hear say and speculation as no one works on the game that are posting here, so we will never know. and frankly does it really matter? just because their devs did not invest 500+hrs playing their game during development is no red flag that the game is great /or shat just means the devs had more important things to do then roll a toon just to get to end game..

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call "over-analyzation."

Really? How many hours have you logged so far to be an expert on this game?

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 750

6/27/12 8:38:58 PM#40
Originally posted by Fearum

Why not?

Because OBVIOUSLY if they don't have to test it that much its a flawless game

No, I was asking, why do you think it will turn out to be pretty good?  What evidence are you basing this on? 

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