Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.

Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.

Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly desighted card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.

Originally posted by negativf4kk

Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.

Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.

Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly designed card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.

actually like that analogy:)

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by negativf4kk

Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.

Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.

Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly designed card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.

actually like that analogy:)

+1 

Originally posted by Piiritus

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by negativf4kk

Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.

Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.

Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly designed card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.

actually like that analogy:)

+1 

+2

Originally posted by Piiritus

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by negativf4kk

Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.

Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.

Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly designed card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.

actually like that analogy:)

+1 

You win. /endthread

---

Originally posted by negativf4kk
Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.

Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.

Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly desighted card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.

---

because in poker everyone sorts through the deck and picks out 4 aces every time and it then becomes a matter of spamming those aces as fast as possible ... yea that's the same thing.

Originally posted by azmundai

 

---

Originally posted by negativf4kk
Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.

 

Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.

Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly desighted card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.

---

 

because in poker everyone sorts through the deck and picks out 4 aces every time and it then becomes a matter of spamming those aces as fast as possible ... yea that's the same thing.

-1 

Originally posted by udon

Originally posted by Alalala

To the OP: What a silly post.

This is like someone selling you an apple, and you've tried it, and the wrote an essay showing all the reasons why the apple you bought and tried is not a good black-bean dip.

The Secret World has not been marketed and hyped as "***The Greatest Combat MMO In History! ***"

It's just a SWTOR-like single-player adventure video game, with the barest minimum of features to be called a MMO.  It's about mood, style, puzzles, and character costumes. 

Fighting is clearly just a means to an end in this game.  I'm so happy the OP just got that now.

For an encore, will the OP write another analysis on why EVE is such a bad FPS / dungeon crawler?

So ponder this than.  

Why is it that the weakest gameplay element of this game is the part you spend the most time doing by far?

I didn't find combat to be overwhemly dominant in this game.  I do agree with the OP on one point:  With a good deck and good gear, the combat is mostly quick and easy.  Also, you can simply run around or run away from a lot of combat as most XP is from finishing quests and objectives.

Anyway, to verify my premise I went back to FunCom's own TSW website, and copied below everything they say on the "game play" for TSW.  I am correct and everyone can see for themselves - they are not pushing this as the end-all combat MMO.   In fact, I was surprised myself as they make no claims at all about the combat system - I thought there would be at least a little mention.

(I also re-read the FC TSW main web page - no hype on the combat system.  I went through some of the articles on decks and deck building - nothing there either.)

Listen, I'm no fanboi for this game, and am still on the fence about buying it.  What I do care about is that FunCom is trying some new things in a very worn-out and tired genre, and for that they should get some support from video game fans.

GAMEPLAY

Imagine if every myth, conspiracy theory and urban legend was true. Imagine a world where you can become anything you want to be, without restrictions such as classes or levels. This is the premise for The Secret World, Funcom’s upcoming massively multiplayer online game set in the modern-day real world.

The Secret World includes 30 days of free game time. Each additional month has a cost of $14.99 / €14.99 incl. VAT / £11.49 incl. VAT. Longer subscription cycles yield discounts to the monthly fee.

Originally posted by azmundai

 

---

Originally posted by negativf4kk
Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.

 

Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.

Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly desighted card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.

---

 

because in poker everyone sorts through the deck and picks out 4 aces every time and it then becomes a matter of spamming those aces as fast as possible ... yea that's the same thing.

i see it more like in poker you never know exactly what the other player is holding. For me all MMOs come down to basic combinations and basic rotations.. its the options that interest me and so many games are so devoid of any sort of options in the classes I get bored easily.. 

Originally posted by 9reesracer9

let's break this down to the simplest possible terms:

 

Effective (adj.): Adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result.

 

Efficient (adj.) Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort.

 

in this example, the OP, and all his supporters have a valid case, arguing that TSW will eventually boild down to spamming 2-3 buttons and 3-4 build in the name of efficiency. even though he should have named the heavily edited video "how to curb-stomp PvP noobs with the least possible effort", there is still a case to be made for what appears to be a troublesome mechanic for some players, and i appreciate the case made here.

 

NOW, add the adjective "most" before each term. 

 

"efficient" gains virtually no new meaning. either you are, or you are not.

 

meanwhile, the term "most effective" becomes an entirely different concept.

 

the player who properly synergizes passive skills with 7 active skills, will be a much "more effective" player than the "efficient" one. now take two players of equal skill, and our OP is the one facerolled instead.

For those wondering what my build was: I'm using two single target attacks (sometimes 3, especially in PvE), 3 impairs and 2 evasion CDs. Synergies and passives revolve around burst and impair. I've been playing long enough to know what synergies are, and how to get the most from them (and I do). That's not the point of this thread. 

As you can see from the video, I can afford to devote 5 of my slots to ablities with 45 sec CDs because I can quickly drop opponents by spamming the same two abilities ad nauseum before they can do anything, and they cannot do anything because I can devote 5 of my slots to CCs and buffs and do plenty of damage with just two abilties.

I don't need any more attacks and the system punishes me if I do because by picking more attacks I'd have to drop some of my impairs/buffs, which are a lot more useful than the marginal increase in damage I could get from using more builders/spenders. I've done similar builds with rifle, blade, hammer and shotgun where I spam 2-3 attacks and use the rest of my slots for long CD abilities (i.e. buffs, CC, etc). The results are pretty much the same you see in this video. Unfortunaly it makes for very boring and repetitive combat, but I've yet to see something better. That is the entire point of this thread, players should not be rewarded by using shitty rotations like the ones I use.

A lot of theory crafters in this thread but someone has yet to step up and show me how I'm wrong in actual practice.

Originally posted by Krytycal

Originally posted by 9reesracer9

let's break this down to the simplest possible terms:

 

Effective (adj.): Adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result.

 

Efficient (adj.) Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort.

 

in this example, the OP, and all his supporters have a valid case, arguing that TSW will eventually boild down to spamming 2-3 buttons and 3-4 build in the name of efficiency. even though he should have named the heavily edited video "how to curb-stomp PvP noobs with the least possible effort", there is still a case to be made for what appears to be a troublesome mechanic for some players, and i appreciate the case made here.

 

NOW, add the adjective "most" before each term. 

 

"efficient" gains virtually no new meaning. either you are, or you are not.

 

meanwhile, the term "most effective" becomes an entirely different concept.

 

the player who properly synergizes passive skills with 7 active skills, will be a much "more effective" player than the "efficient" one. now take two players of equal skill, and our OP is the one facerolled instead.

 

For those wondering what my build was: I'm using two single target attacks (sometimes 3, especially in PvE), 3 impairs and 2 evasion CDs. Synergies and passives revolve around burst and impair. I've been playing long enough to know what synergies are, and how to get the most from them (and I do). That's not the point of this thread. 

As you can see from the video, I can afford to devote 5 of my slots to ablities with 45 sec CDs because I can quickly drop opponents by spamming the same two abilities ad nauseum before they can do anything, and they cannot do anything because I can devote 5 of my slots to CCs and buffs and do plenty of damage with just two abilties.

I don't need any more attacks and the system punishes me if I do because by picking more attacks I'd have to drop some of my impairs/buffs, which are a lot more useful than the marginal increase in damage I could get from using more builders/spenders. I've done similar builds with rifle, blade, hammer and shotgun where I spam 2-3 attacks and use the rest of my slots for long CD abilities (i.e. buffs, CC, etc). The results are pretty much the same you see in this video. Unfortunaly it makes for very boring and repetitive combat, but I've yet to see something better. That is the entire point of this thread, players should not be rewarded by using shitty rotations like the ones I use.

A lot of theory crafters in this thread but someone has yet to step up and show me how I'm wrong in actual practice.

I could kill people in rift by using two buttons as well but all those people I beat were A) Much lower rank than me or B) sucked at pvp and had no clue what they were doing... don't really see what your video proves at all. Also still don't see your guys point in only hitting a few keys. Most games in general get by fine with only 2-6 keys total used in combat. it's really all about options and how much you can customize your character to make them more unique so you oppenent doesn't know exactly how to counter you on every occasion.

Originally posted by Krytycal

Originally posted by 9reesracer9

let's break this down to the simplest possible terms:

 

Effective (adj.): Adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result.

 

Efficient (adj.) Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort.

 

in this example, the OP, and all his supporters have a valid case, arguing that TSW will eventually boild down to spamming 2-3 buttons and 3-4 build in the name of efficiency. even though he should have named the heavily edited video "how to curb-stomp PvP noobs with the least possible effort", there is still a case to be made for what appears to be a troublesome mechanic for some players, and i appreciate the case made here.

 

NOW, add the adjective "most" before each term. 

 

"efficient" gains virtually no new meaning. either you are, or you are not.

 

meanwhile, the term "most effective" becomes an entirely different concept.

 

the player who properly synergizes passive skills with 7 active skills, will be a much "more effective" player than the "efficient" one. now take two players of equal skill, and our OP is the one facerolled instead.

 

For those wondering what my build was: I'm using two single target attacks (sometimes 3, especially in PvE), 3 impairs and 2 evasion CDs. Synergies and passives revolve around burst and impair. I've been playing long enough to know what synergies are, and how to get the most from them (and I do). That's not the point of this thread. 

As you can see from the video, I can afford to devote 5 of my slots to ablities with 45 sec CDs because I can quickly drop opponents by spamming the same two abilities ad nauseum before they can do anything, and they cannot do anything because I can devote 5 of my slots to CCs and buffs and do plenty of damage with just two abilties.

I don't need any more attacks and the system punishes me if I do because by picking more attacks I'd have to drop some of my impairs/buffs, which are a lot more useful than the marginal increase in damage I could get from using more builders/spenders. I've done similar builds with rifle, blade, hammer and shotgun where I spam 2-3 attacks and use the rest of my slots for long CD abilities (i.e. buffs, CC, etc). The results are pretty much the same you see in this video. Unfortunaly it makes for very boring and repetitive combat, but I've yet to see something better. That is the entire point of this thread, players should not be rewarded by using shitty rotations like the ones I use.

A lot of theory crafters in this thread but someone has yet to step up and show me how I'm wrong in actual practice.

i don't think anyone said your build wouldn't work, just that unless you tested 6 million combinations, then you don't know which is best (or even among the best). all we know is that it's efficient against some PvP beta testers. i wonder what would happen in Fusang if someone with half a brain jumped you while all your beloved CC's and debuffs were on CD (the same way you jumped those already in combat when you could activate them). i'll tell you...you'd spend so much time at the respawn point, you'd have a park bench nearby dedicated in your name.

Originally posted by Blindchance

Originally posted by Alalala
 

[mod edit]

That's a matter of opinion.

Many have said that force grouping doesn't make better community or sociallization and that it's not was defines an mmo. So, besides some solo instanced from time to time and a solo main story, which is also a smaller part of the game, everything else is mmo just like all others. I don't consider open world events like Rifts and DE them to make it any more mmo (and i like those games).

To me, sandboxes define mmo alot better, but in themeparks it's more complicated. Personally, i consider players talking face to face, rping together, being friendly, etc to far more of an mmo activity than zerging some big boss i the world with nobody talking or even knowing each other, much less wanting too.

As far as subpar, again, that's an opinion. To you it may be so, but to me, it's the most unique and special themepark coming out.

EDIT: BUT, this is out of topic. Sorry. As far as combat goes, like i already stated in my initial post, it's not the reason why i'm playing this game and don't care.

Originally posted by Krytycal

For those wondering what my build was: I'm using two single target attacks (sometimes 3, especially in PvE), 3 impairs and 2 evasion CDs. Synergies and passives revolve around burst and impair. I've been playing long enough to know what synergies are, and how to get the most from them (and I do). That's not the point of this thread. 

As you can see from the video, I can afford to devote 5 of my slots to ablities with 45 sec CDs because I can quickly drop opponents by spamming the same two abilities ad nauseum before they can do anything, and they cannot do anything because I can devote 5 of my slots to CCs and buffs and do plenty of damage with just two abilties.

I don't need any more attacks and the system punishes me if I do because by picking more attacks I'd have to drop some of my impairs/buffs, which are a lot more useful than the marginal increase in damage I could get from using more builders/spenders. I've done similar builds with rifle, blade, hammer and shotgun where I spam 2-3 attacks and use the rest of my slots for long CD abilities (i.e. buffs, CC, etc). The results are pretty much the same you see in this video. Unfortunaly it makes for very boring and repetitive combat, but I've yet to see something better. That is the entire point of this thread, players should not be rewarded by using shitty rotations like the ones I use.

A lot of theory crafters in this thread but someone has yet to step up and show me how I'm wrong in actual practice.

I've played around with your build today in Fusang Projects. Apart from being spammy as hell, the efficiency is actually better than I expected, but not anything near the efficency you are showing in your video. We had 10-25 players from each faction, and people were somewhat organized. In hectic situations those long CDs will create some problems though. You can quickly appear in the middle of the battle and get healers and dps'ers down quickly, but that normally stops at one or two targets killed depending on the reaction of the enemies. Running around on the outer road in Fusang taking down singles or pairs works well depending on the enemy spec. If I see an elementalist, I try to stay away. Some hammer specs are also pretty devestating.

You should give that spec another run in CB. Also, have you posted anything about this on the CB forum? If you are looking for answers, that is the place to go.

i don't think anyone said your build wouldn't work, just that unless you tested 6 million combinations, then you don't know which is best (or even among the best). all we know is that it's efficient against some PvP beta testers. i wonder what would happen in Fusang if someone with half a brain jumped you while all your beloved CC's and debuffs were on CD (the same way you jumped those already in combat when you could activate them). i'll tell you...you'd spend so much time at the respawn point, you'd have a park bench nearby dedicated in your name.

I have 5 different CDs, the chances of all of them being on cooldown is not very high unless I'm already engaged in 1vs2 or something, in which case if Im jumped by another guy it wouldn't be exactly fair, would it? Or are you just trying to prove that I can die? Because I can, I even showed it in the video. If you think about it, what you're saying actually supports my argument that by packing a lot of gamechanging long CD abilties and fewer attacks you have higher chances of having one of the CDs up and turning around a fight vs someone who only has 1 or 2 good CDs and a lot of rebundant attacks (ie 80% of spenders/builders in the game).

Originally posted by Baffle

Originally posted by Krytycal

For those wondering what my build was: I'm using two single target attacks (sometimes 3, especially in PvE), 3 impairs and 2 evasion CDs. Synergies and passives revolve around burst and impair. I've been playing long enough to know what synergies are, and how to get the most from them (and I do). That's not the point of this thread. 

As you can see from the video, I can afford to devote 5 of my slots to ablities with 45 sec CDs because I can quickly drop opponents by spamming the same two abilities ad nauseum before they can do anything, and they cannot do anything because I can devote 5 of my slots to CCs and buffs and do plenty of damage with just two abilties.

I don't need any more attacks and the system punishes me if I do because by picking more attacks I'd have to drop some of my impairs/buffs, which are a lot more useful than the marginal increase in damage I could get from using more builders/spenders. I've done similar builds with rifle, blade, hammer and shotgun where I spam 2-3 attacks and use the rest of my slots for long CD abilities (i.e. buffs, CC, etc). The results are pretty much the same you see in this video. Unfortunaly it makes for very boring and repetitive combat, but I've yet to see something better. That is the entire point of this thread, players should not be rewarded by using shitty rotations like the ones I use.

A lot of theory crafters in this thread but someone has yet to step up and show me how I'm wrong in actual practice.

I've played around with your build today in Fusang Projects. Apart from being spammy as hell, the efficiency is actually better than I expected, but not anything near the efficency you are showing in your video. We had 10-25 players from each faction, and people were somewhat organized. In hectic situations those long CDs will create some problems though. You can quickly appear in the middle of the battle and get healers and dps'ers down quickly, but that normally stops at one or two targets killed depending on the reaction of the enemies. Running around on the outer road in Fusang taking down singles or pairs works well depending on the enemy spec. If I see an elementalist, I try to stay away. Some hammer specs are also pretty devestating.

You should give that spec another run in CB. Also, have you posted anything about this on the CB forum? If you are looking for answers, that is the place to go.

 

I played some more with it last night (also messed around with a blade/hammer spec with similar results). So far I haven't had issues with any solo players, regardless of build. In theory I could see a good Rifle/Chaos player giving me trouble with a hinder build, but again they would be restricted to only a couple of attacks with the rest of the slots being hinders with longish CDs and buffs. It would still be a spammy, repetitive build.

I think charging into a zerg and getting killed it's more reflective of the disadvantage melee builds face in zerg vs zerg fights if anything. At least with this build you can take down a couple of players before dying thanks to the defensive CDs and impairs. A melee build without them would get focused down a lot faster and be mostly useless in large scale PvP.

I've posted many times in the CB forum how I felt the rebundancy of builders/spenders, paired with a limit of only 7 actives, was a poor decision and made the combat spammy and repetitive. I was met with canned responses like "it's designed that way so your choices matter" so I eventually stopped bringing it up. On the bright side they later listened to our suggestions regarding Active Dodge and added it, so there's still hope. Maybe if more people realize why it is that the combat feels boring and repetitive (and many people do feel that way) Funcom might actually do something about it. 

My perfect TSW would have a limit of 10 abilities (passives can remain the same), with the builder/spenders reworked. Add medium CDs (ie. 8-20 secs) to 50% of them and significantly increase their current damage (as well as keeping their respective synergies) so they're considerably better than builders/spenders with no CDs. This would go a long way in improving the combat by allowing you to use more dynamic rotations without gimping yourself. Also spice up some of the animations, identical or nearly identical animations are a no no.

what game is better chess or draughts?

what do u preffer 30 + abilities on your hot bar or 7 to choose from 500+?(dont forget that to use 30+ abilities to their full capacity you have to be at list semi-profesional piano player)

Its a matter of choice and preference. And has nothing to do with design. Limiting your deck to 2 spammable skills in a video was your choice. Will you be able to do the same thing using same skills in a month time? I very much doupt it.

I think it's pretty clear that there is only very subtle skill variety and very little that is situational. With only 7 active skill slots, there just isn't a lot of room for situational skills and the entire thing just encourages people to identify the most efficient skill rotations and repeat them ad nauseum.

I personally didn't find combat bad enough to distract from the atmosphere, setting and story, but I am a little worried that it may get boring after more time playing.

I guess this makes things easier to balance, but there is so much more they could do with skills to make them more interesting. I hope that they will slowly rework the skill sets after launch, removing some of the superfluous stuff and adding more variety.

Believe it or not, I actually was encouraged that the OP could be so capable with just two skills. That means people could make room on the skill bar for more situational skills, with out sacrificing their damage dealing capabilities. The theorycrafting and evolving meta should be interesting for this game.

Remember the most successfull game in the history of PC game aka 2 button smasher....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeHJHsHYQV8

Originally posted by simmihi

We "fanboys" played it also. And we love it as it was. It is different and better for most of us. That's the whole deal. There are thousands of games with the same WoW-ish gameplay out there, all aimed to people who want 15 keys combat. This is different. Combat is different, situational, specialized, the complexity comes from the options you have, not from the numbers of keys you can correctly press per second.

 

The fact that you did not enjoy it 15 minutes after you started to beta test and that you feel combat is "all you are going to do" in TSW, the fact that the game didn't call for you to get into it to learn more abilities to create different decks to use different skills etc makes it not a game for you. I really appreciate the video and the initial poster, he put effort into it but his opinion is very subjective. All he has proven is that he feels the game is not rewarding or challenging enough for him. Let me boost to max level, get the latest Arena gear in WoW and go into battlegrounds with naked people. Bet i can kill everyone using 2 buttons.

 

If they mainstream this title too and make it play like every other MMO out there, a lot more people will be dissapointed.

I didnt realize you had spyware on my computer and tracked my gameplay time.  You totally busted me having only played for 15 minutes, thinking PvP was all the game was about and realizing I never touched a deck or even knew what one was.  I sure am glad you were able to access my comuter and read my mind to get all that information and didnt just make it up to justify your position. 

No one is saying the game sucks, no one is saying make it like WoW.  You can keep spouting that crap for several more pages but most people with an IQ over 70 can read enough to see the OP just has an issue with the combat.  If you feel the combat is the best in any MMO then say it and load up some video to back your position.  Make a valid arguement.  You fanbois saying he only fought newbies with no gear are just making more assumptions.  Why dont you fanbois put your money where your mouth is and setup a day/time to meetup with the OP and prove his point is weak?  Let the OP video himself owning you or you owning him.  Anything else is just words that dont mean a thing.  But if it makes you feel better, post more assumptions about how I really only played for 5 minutes and I want the graphics changed to cartoony WoW style graphics.  I'm sure it will make you feel better.