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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Why the Combat is Poorly Designed (With Video Included)

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306 posts found
  tares

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/11
Posts: 384

6/27/12 1:33:00 PM#181
Originally posted by simmihi

I still can't see why they want to be here and not in the "real" PvP games with "real" button mashing and "real" 30 keybinds and everything, things that take "real" skill. Probably they're having their asses handed to them by the real e-sport clans in the real e-sport games.

 

Newsflash - we don't want you here, go there please, play WoW Arena or StarCraft2 or LoL or whatever takes skill for you. Stop saying that our game is crap, but you'll still play it, It does not make sense and obviously it does not look good in your "intelligent, thinking" players CV's.  Playing it just to "pwn nubz and show them nubz i'm right" shows a lot of things about your maturity also. Prove us wrong. Prove us that you respect yourselves and your ideas and leave.

If you notice those games you listed and others that get picked up for MLG and other tournys have Both pro players that can pawn everyone else AND millions of players. The reason is solid game mechanics, an easy to pick up yet hard to master learning curve.

I face guys I watch play on Tourny streams all the time online in various games, sometimes I win sometimes I lose but I am at a high enough skill ranking to face them.  They just practice more and know the game much better than most players.

You need them because they know the game so well, if the game isn't good from both a technical and fun perspective they leave.  For some reason games don't have to be popular to attract those players, just good, well polished, with solid mechanics.   

 

  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2218

6/27/12 1:41:30 PM#182
Originally posted by Blacknd
Originally posted by Vutar

Sure, I read you making a plea to give TSW time yet I didn't read a reason why we should be willing to do that. Why should we trust a developer that has ignored the issues with combat all through beta even though it has been pointed out to them by numerous people? Yet somehow these same devs are going to magically fix it after release if we just "give it time."   My solution to you, sire, is to stop drinking the koolaid.

Wait.. Really?

I said if you didn't like what was currently on the table to not support the devs and not buy it the game.

I never said to support them (by buying it) and wait for it to magically become something you like. Or to trust them. I certainly don't.

This is easy shit man, easy shit. You're reading what you want to read and reading opposition where there is none.

Let me pull out the crayons:

You no like game?

You no buy game.

Done.

There is ZERO reason why you can't WAIT to buy (or not buy) the game until you determine what the devs are (or are not) going to do.

You really have no choice in the matter.

 

The bigger choice is whether to buy FC stock, short FC stock or pass on FC stock. If voting with your wallet may as well make money out of it!!
  simmihi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 515

6/27/12 1:41:53 PM#183
Originally posted by tares
Originally posted by simmihi

I still can't see why they want to be here and not in the "real" PvP games with "real" button mashing and "real" 30 keybinds and everything, things that take "real" skill. Probably they're having their asses handed to them by the real e-sport clans in the real e-sport games.

 

Newsflash - we don't want you here, go there please, play WoW Arena or StarCraft2 or LoL or whatever takes skill for you. Stop saying that our game is crap, but you'll still play it, It does not make sense and obviously it does not look good in your "intelligent, thinking" players CV's.  Playing it just to "pwn nubz and show them nubz i'm right" shows a lot of things about your maturity also. Prove us wrong. Prove us that you respect yourselves and your ideas and leave.

If you notice those games you listed and others that get picked up for MLG and other tournys have Both pro players that can pawn everyone else AND millions of players. The reason is solid game mechanics, an easy to pick up yet hard to master learning curve.

I face guys I watch play on Tourny streams all the time online in various games, sometimes I win sometimes I lose but I am at a high enough skill ranking to face them.  They just practice more and know the game much better than most players.

You need them because they know the game so well, if the game isn't good from both a technical and fun perspective they leave.  For some reason games don't have to be popular to attract those players, just good, well polished, with solid mechanics.   

 

I don't want ranking, high tier PvP, ruthless PvE to be the focus in TSW. Yes they should exist but focusing the game towards them would be a mistake. I've did that for a few good years, i'm bored to the teeth. There are literally tens of games like these on the market. I don't want this new, interesting, different and fun for many title to be "leet-kidz" oriented also. I also don't want them in my games. The game is how it is. Changing it to turn it into something else because someone likes e-sports is not a good idea and will turn away lots of fans. The main perks of TSW are exactly in being different from anything else: setting, story etc. I've posted those games especially to ask why do this kind of players (i respect them as i respect any other human being) do not go towards those titles and come here trying to change the approach to this title instead, to make it "more fun" for them.

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1614

6/27/12 1:47:58 PM#184
Originally posted by simmihi
Originally posted by tares
Originally posted by simmihi

I still can't see why they want to be here and not in the "real" PvP games with "real" button mashing and "real" 30 keybinds and everything, things that take "real" skill. Probably they're having their asses handed to them by the real e-sport clans in the real e-sport games.

 

Newsflash - we don't want you here, go there please, play WoW Arena or StarCraft2 or LoL or whatever takes skill for you. Stop saying that our game is crap, but you'll still play it, It does not make sense and obviously it does not look good in your "intelligent, thinking" players CV's.  Playing it just to "pwn nubz and show them nubz i'm right" shows a lot of things about your maturity also. Prove us wrong. Prove us that you respect yourselves and your ideas and leave.

If you notice those games you listed and others that get picked up for MLG and other tournys have Both pro players that can pawn everyone else AND millions of players. The reason is solid game mechanics, an easy to pick up yet hard to master learning curve.

I face guys I watch play on Tourny streams all the time online in various games, sometimes I win sometimes I lose but I am at a high enough skill ranking to face them.  They just practice more and know the game much better than most players.

You need them because they know the game so well, if the game isn't good from both a technical and fun perspective they leave.  For some reason games don't have to be popular to attract those players, just good, well polished, with solid mechanics.   

 

I don't want ranking, high tier PvP, ruthless PvE to be the focus in TSW. Yes they should exist but focusing the game towards them would be a mistake. I've did that for a few good years, i'm bored to the teeth. There are literally tens of games like these on the market. I don't want this new, interesting, different and fun for many title to be "leet-kidz" oriented also. I also don't want them in my games. The game is how it is. Changing it to turn it into something else because someone likes e-sports is not a good idea and will turn away lots of fans. The main perks of TSW are exactly in being different from anything else: setting, story etc. I've posted those games especially to ask why do this kind of players (i respect them as i respect any other human being) do not go towards those titles and come here trying to change the approach to this title instead, to make it "more fun" for them.

I can see where your coming from but honestly what will be left to do in the game if they didn't have any of things you stated?  All that creates progression and without progression it might as well be a SPG that you play for a 100 hours or so than move on.  The most hours I ever put into a SPG game was a fraction of a fraction of what I have poured into a progression based MMO.  Without progression of some form there is no holding power.

  ReesRacer

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/18/11
Posts: 155

6/27/12 1:49:31 PM#185

let's break this down to the simplest possible terms:

 

Effective (adj.): Adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result.
 
Efficient (adj.) Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort.
 
in this example, the OP, and all his supporters have a valid case, arguing that TSW will eventually boild down to spamming 2-3 buttons and 3-4 build in the name of efficiency. even though he should have named the heavily edited video "how to curb-stomp PvP noobs with the least possible effort", there is still a case to be made for what appears to be a troublesome mechanic for some players, and i appreciate the case made here.
 
NOW, add the adjective "most" before each term. 
 
"efficient" gains virtually no new meaning. either you are, or you are not.
 
meanwhile, the term "most effective" becomes an entirely different concept.
 
the player who properly synergizes passive skills with 7 active skills, will be a much "more effective" player than the "efficient" one. now take two players of equal skill, and our OP is the one facerolled instead.
  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

6/27/12 1:50:21 PM#186
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Talonsin

I agree with the OP.  When I played the game I did not notice any "dynamic" combat.  I basically stood my ground and spammed my two pistol abilities.  If thats all I am going to do, I can save $60 and do it in one of the many other MMO's I have been disappointed with over the last two years. 

 

I think the OP made some strong points and proved it with his video.  You fanbois should stop spending so much time nit-picking it and acknowledge that there are issues with this game.  If enough people bring the issue forward, it will get resolved and TSW will be a better game with a bigger population.  All the denials some of you are making only hurt the game.

You made a conscious choice to spam 2 abilities and not look further. It was your choce to put no effort in. I had a few different builds all requiring a combination of 7 actives and 7 passives. I had a deck for group pvp, solo pvp, cc heavy, debuff heavy, more survival, all out dps, and hybrids of the afore mentioned.

I found the more I played with the skill wheel the more rewarding the gameplay was.

 

And by doing so you traded efficiency for flavor as the OP pointed out.  There is nothing wrong with that and for most PVE content and lower level PVP you probably are fine.  However if you start to do high level PVP or extremely challenging PVE that lack of efficiency is going to start to not only hurt you but your group mates as well.
 

How is identifying that someone is taking a long time to kill and adding debuffs and or more dps not adding efficiency. How is adding cc into your build if people are getting away from you not adding efficiency? Seems to me that I am absolutely being efficient at identifying weaknesses and creating a build to fix them. Seems to me I am reacting to what I am encountering and adapting.

 

What, high level pvp doesn't involve adapting to your opponents? High level pvp is spamming one builder and one finisher?

 

Since you brought up pve, the same applies. If the encounter isn't working out as well as you think it should you adapt and make changes. Thats is also what Funcom is going for,  that people will communicate and build their groups based on the strengths and weakness of everyone involved.

 

Its obvious that you and the OP totally missed that.

  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

6/27/12 2:16:57 PM#187
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by simmihi
Originally posted by tares
Originally posted by simmihi

I still can't see why they want to be here and not in the "real" PvP games with "real" button mashing and "real" 30 keybinds and everything, things that take "real" skill. Probably they're having their asses handed to them by the real e-sport clans in the real e-sport games.

 

Newsflash - we don't want you here, go there please, play WoW Arena or StarCraft2 or LoL or whatever takes skill for you. Stop saying that our game is crap, but you'll still play it, It does not make sense and obviously it does not look good in your "intelligent, thinking" players CV's.  Playing it just to "pwn nubz and show them nubz i'm right" shows a lot of things about your maturity also. Prove us wrong. Prove us that you respect yourselves and your ideas and leave.

If you notice those games you listed and others that get picked up for MLG and other tournys have Both pro players that can pawn everyone else AND millions of players. The reason is solid game mechanics, an easy to pick up yet hard to master learning curve.

I face guys I watch play on Tourny streams all the time online in various games, sometimes I win sometimes I lose but I am at a high enough skill ranking to face them.  They just practice more and know the game much better than most players.

You need them because they know the game so well, if the game isn't good from both a technical and fun perspective they leave.  For some reason games don't have to be popular to attract those players, just good, well polished, with solid mechanics.   

 

I don't want ranking, high tier PvP, ruthless PvE to be the focus in TSW. Yes they should exist but focusing the game towards them would be a mistake. I've did that for a few good years, i'm bored to the teeth. There are literally tens of games like these on the market. I don't want this new, interesting, different and fun for many title to be "leet-kidz" oriented also. I also don't want them in my games. The game is how it is. Changing it to turn it into something else because someone likes e-sports is not a good idea and will turn away lots of fans. The main perks of TSW are exactly in being different from anything else: setting, story etc. I've posted those games especially to ask why do this kind of players (i respect them as i respect any other human being) do not go towards those titles and come here trying to change the approach to this title instead, to make it "more fun" for them.

I can see where your coming from but honestly what will be left to do in the game if they didn't have any of things you stated?  All that creates progression and without progression it might as well be a SPG that you play for a 100 hours or so than move on.  The most hours I ever put into a SPG game was a fraction of a fraction of what I have poured into a progression based MMO.  Without progression of some form there is no holding power.

That is your opinion, the games I spent most hours in other than my years in WoW were The Matrix Online and SWG which had none of the type of progression you are talking about, the game worlds were great, the people were awesome, we had some great fun, logging in to the game was a pleasure, logging in to WoW for my raids felt like a job.

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

6/27/12 2:17:01 PM#188

So yeah.

Doing GW2 stress test now.

The combat and overall metagame of GW2 is indeed more complex and deeper than TSW (we're discussing it on teamspeak now) - but then too, so is WoW's.

TSW is very simplistic and limited [mod edit]

I will still play it for the story and setting, and no doubt we'll do some team PVP and faceroll the slow players in stonehenge and fusang - you'll see 3-4 team-optimal builds appearing in PVP videos a week or two after release.

And by 3-4 builds total, that includes tanking and healing builds.

  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

6/27/12 2:22:17 PM#189
Originally posted by Greyhooff

So yeah.

Doing GW2 stress test now.

The combat and overall metagame of GW2 is indeed more complex and deeper than TSW (we're discussing it on teamspeak now) - but then too, so is WoW's.

TSW is very simplistic and limited, just seems because it's new all the slow people haven't understood it yet.

I will still play it for the story and setting, and no doubt we'll do some team PVP and faceroll the slow players in stonehenge and fusang - you'll see 3-4 team-optimal builds appearing in PVP videos a week or two after release.

And by 3-4 builds total, that includes tanking and healing builds.

Or maybe people didn't play it to death in beta because they want to enjoy the game they have purchased for a while when it releases?

[mod edit] If the combat in TSW is not to your liking then don't play it. I am not a fan of the combat but its not the deciding factor on whether I play the game or not.

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1614

6/27/12 2:23:43 PM#190
Originally posted by SlickShoes
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by simmihi
Originally posted by tares
Originally posted by simmihi

I still can't see why they want to be here and not in the "real" PvP games with "real" button mashing and "real" 30 keybinds and everything, things that take "real" skill. Probably they're having their asses handed to them by the real e-sport clans in the real e-sport games.

 

Newsflash - we don't want you here, go there please, play WoW Arena or StarCraft2 or LoL or whatever takes skill for you. Stop saying that our game is crap, but you'll still play it, It does not make sense and obviously it does not look good in your "intelligent, thinking" players CV's.  Playing it just to "pwn nubz and show them nubz i'm right" shows a lot of things about your maturity also. Prove us wrong. Prove us that you respect yourselves and your ideas and leave.

If you notice those games you listed and others that get picked up for MLG and other tournys have Both pro players that can pawn everyone else AND millions of players. The reason is solid game mechanics, an easy to pick up yet hard to master learning curve.

I face guys I watch play on Tourny streams all the time online in various games, sometimes I win sometimes I lose but I am at a high enough skill ranking to face them.  They just practice more and know the game much better than most players.

You need them because they know the game so well, if the game isn't good from both a technical and fun perspective they leave.  For some reason games don't have to be popular to attract those players, just good, well polished, with solid mechanics.   

 

I don't want ranking, high tier PvP, ruthless PvE to be the focus in TSW. Yes they should exist but focusing the game towards them would be a mistake. I've did that for a few good years, i'm bored to the teeth. There are literally tens of games like these on the market. I don't want this new, interesting, different and fun for many title to be "leet-kidz" oriented also. I also don't want them in my games. The game is how it is. Changing it to turn it into something else because someone likes e-sports is not a good idea and will turn away lots of fans. The main perks of TSW are exactly in being different from anything else: setting, story etc. I've posted those games especially to ask why do this kind of players (i respect them as i respect any other human being) do not go towards those titles and come here trying to change the approach to this title instead, to make it "more fun" for them.

I can see where your coming from but honestly what will be left to do in the game if they didn't have any of things you stated?  All that creates progression and without progression it might as well be a SPG that you play for a 100 hours or so than move on.  The most hours I ever put into a SPG game was a fraction of a fraction of what I have poured into a progression based MMO.  Without progression of some form there is no holding power.

That is your opinion, the games I spent most hours in other than my years in WoW were The Matrix Online and SWG which had none of the type of progression you are talking about, the game worlds were great, the people were awesome, we had some great fun, logging in to the game was a pleasure, logging in to WoW for my raids felt like a job.

Doesn't you choice in examples kind of prove my point?

  Siug

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 991

6/27/12 2:24:29 PM#191
Originally posted by Greyhooff

So yeah.

Doing GW2 stress test now.

The combat and overall metagame of GW2 is indeed more complex and deeper than TSW (we're discussing it on teamspeak now) - but then too, so is WoW's.

TSW is very simplistic and limited, just seems because it's new all the slow people haven't understood it yet.

I will still play it for the story and setting, and no doubt we'll do some team PVP and faceroll the slow players in stonehenge and fusang - you'll see 3-4 team-optimal builds appearing in PVP videos a week or two after release.

And by 3-4 builds total, that includes tanking and healing builds.

So pressing 2 buttons + dodge button is more complex? Really? You can hate this game as much as you like, it does not change the fact that TSW is a good game with an awesome concept to build on. 

Also, calling people slow and bragging about how good you are makes me wonder if you are one of those who calles himself a hardcore PvPer ie always whining kid who demands nerfs every single time he gets killed? TSW is not even a PvP game so I don't understand why are you "quick people" even want to play it? 

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

6/27/12 2:25:29 PM#192

WoW = complex......that was by far the best joke I have seen on these forums. I played the game for years and all you needed to know was don't stand in the red circle of death. And that was challenging for many. Or they were just too bored and weren't paying attention due to the simplicity of the game.

  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

6/27/12 2:27:05 PM#193
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by SlickShoes
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by simmihi
Originally posted by tares
Originally posted by simmihi

I still can't see why they want to be here and not in the "real" PvP games with "real" button mashing and "real" 30 keybinds and everything, things that take "real" skill. Probably they're having their asses handed to them by the real e-sport clans in the real e-sport games.

 

Newsflash - we don't want you here, go there please, play WoW Arena or StarCraft2 or LoL or whatever takes skill for you. Stop saying that our game is crap, but you'll still play it, It does not make sense and obviously it does not look good in your "intelligent, thinking" players CV's.  Playing it just to "pwn nubz and show them nubz i'm right" shows a lot of things about your maturity also. Prove us wrong. Prove us that you respect yourselves and your ideas and leave.

If you notice those games you listed and others that get picked up for MLG and other tournys have Both pro players that can pawn everyone else AND millions of players. The reason is solid game mechanics, an easy to pick up yet hard to master learning curve.

I face guys I watch play on Tourny streams all the time online in various games, sometimes I win sometimes I lose but I am at a high enough skill ranking to face them.  They just practice more and know the game much better than most players.

You need them because they know the game so well, if the game isn't good from both a technical and fun perspective they leave.  For some reason games don't have to be popular to attract those players, just good, well polished, with solid mechanics.   

 

I don't want ranking, high tier PvP, ruthless PvE to be the focus in TSW. Yes they should exist but focusing the game towards them would be a mistake. I've did that for a few good years, i'm bored to the teeth. There are literally tens of games like these on the market. I don't want this new, interesting, different and fun for many title to be "leet-kidz" oriented also. I also don't want them in my games. The game is how it is. Changing it to turn it into something else because someone likes e-sports is not a good idea and will turn away lots of fans. The main perks of TSW are exactly in being different from anything else: setting, story etc. I've posted those games especially to ask why do this kind of players (i respect them as i respect any other human being) do not go towards those titles and come here trying to change the approach to this title instead, to make it "more fun" for them.

I can see where your coming from but honestly what will be left to do in the game if they didn't have any of things you stated?  All that creates progression and without progression it might as well be a SPG that you play for a 100 hours or so than move on.  The most hours I ever put into a SPG game was a fraction of a fraction of what I have poured into a progression based MMO.  Without progression of some form there is no holding power.

That is your opinion, the games I spent most hours in other than my years in WoW were The Matrix Online and SWG which had none of the type of progression you are talking about, the game worlds were great, the people were awesome, we had some great fun, logging in to the game was a pleasure, logging in to WoW for my raids felt like a job.

Doesn't you choice in examples kind of prove my point?

People are different and like different things, if thats your point then you have proven it.

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1614

6/27/12 2:27:56 PM#194
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Talonsin

I agree with the OP.  When I played the game I did not notice any "dynamic" combat.  I basically stood my ground and spammed my two pistol abilities.  If thats all I am going to do, I can save $60 and do it in one of the many other MMO's I have been disappointed with over the last two years. 

 

I think the OP made some strong points and proved it with his video.  You fanbois should stop spending so much time nit-picking it and acknowledge that there are issues with this game.  If enough people bring the issue forward, it will get resolved and TSW will be a better game with a bigger population.  All the denials some of you are making only hurt the game.

You made a conscious choice to spam 2 abilities and not look further. It was your choce to put no effort in. I had a few different builds all requiring a combination of 7 actives and 7 passives. I had a deck for group pvp, solo pvp, cc heavy, debuff heavy, more survival, all out dps, and hybrids of the afore mentioned.

I found the more I played with the skill wheel the more rewarding the gameplay was.

 

And by doing so you traded efficiency for flavor as the OP pointed out.  There is nothing wrong with that and for most PVE content and lower level PVP you probably are fine.  However if you start to do high level PVP or extremely challenging PVE that lack of efficiency is going to start to not only hurt you but your group mates as well.
 

How is identifying that someone is taking a long time to kill and adding debuffs and or more dps not adding efficiency. How is adding cc into your build if people are getting away from you not adding efficiency? Seems to me that I am absolutely being efficient at identifying weaknesses and creating a build to fix them. Seems to me I am reacting to what I am encountering and adapting.

 

What, high level pvp doesn't involve adapting to your opponents? High level pvp is spamming one builder and one finisher?

 

Since you brought up pve, the same applies. If the encounter isn't working out as well as you think it should you adapt and make changes. Thats is also what Funcom is going for,  that people will communicate and build their groups based on the strengths and weakness of everyone involved.

 

Its obvious that you and the OP totally missed that.

Missed what?  That the most efficient way to fill out your 7 active skills is to pick 2-3 abilities you use 90% of the time and fill the rest with ones that you use the remaining 10%?  

If you play TSW any other way you are gimping yourself and your team by giving up active slots for abilities you should be taking instead of those redundent ones.  That's what is annoying about TSW to me.  It's this great idea of open skill system that has been castrated by 7 active abilities and the builder/spender game play mechanic.

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

6/27/12 2:34:38 PM#195
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Talonsin

I agree with the OP.  When I played the game I did not notice any "dynamic" combat.  I basically stood my ground and spammed my two pistol abilities.  If thats all I am going to do, I can save $60 and do it in one of the many other MMO's I have been disappointed with over the last two years. 

 

I think the OP made some strong points and proved it with his video.  You fanbois should stop spending so much time nit-picking it and acknowledge that there are issues with this game.  If enough people bring the issue forward, it will get resolved and TSW will be a better game with a bigger population.  All the denials some of you are making only hurt the game.

You made a conscious choice to spam 2 abilities and not look further. It was your choce to put no effort in. I had a few different builds all requiring a combination of 7 actives and 7 passives. I had a deck for group pvp, solo pvp, cc heavy, debuff heavy, more survival, all out dps, and hybrids of the afore mentioned.

I found the more I played with the skill wheel the more rewarding the gameplay was.

 

And by doing so you traded efficiency for flavor as the OP pointed out.  There is nothing wrong with that and for most PVE content and lower level PVP you probably are fine.  However if you start to do high level PVP or extremely challenging PVE that lack of efficiency is going to start to not only hurt you but your group mates as well.
 

How is identifying that someone is taking a long time to kill and adding debuffs and or more dps not adding efficiency. How is adding cc into your build if people are getting away from you not adding efficiency? Seems to me that I am absolutely being efficient at identifying weaknesses and creating a build to fix them. Seems to me I am reacting to what I am encountering and adapting.

 

What, high level pvp doesn't involve adapting to your opponents? High level pvp is spamming one builder and one finisher?

 

Since you brought up pve, the same applies. If the encounter isn't working out as well as you think it should you adapt and make changes. Thats is also what Funcom is going for,  that people will communicate and build their groups based on the strengths and weakness of everyone involved.

 

Its obvious that you and the OP totally missed that.

Missed what?  That the most efficient way to fill out your 7 active skills is to pick 2-3 abilities you use 90% of the time and fill the rest with ones that you use the remaining 10%?  

If you play TSW any other way you are gimping yourself and your team by giving up active slots for abilities you should be taking instead of those redundent ones.  That's what is annoying about TSW to me.  It's this great idea of open skill system that has been castrated by 7 active abilities and the builder/spender game play mechanic.

Please point out these 2-3 abilities that makes the other 500 or so obsolete? Please point out these 2-3 abilities that will do the most damage and be the best in pvp/pve solo and group play?

 

When I was playing I killed packs alot quicker using my frontal cone aoe ability build vs my single target build.

 

But I digress, please show us all your 2-3 spam-mode abilities that makes everything else useless.

  Alalala

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/03/06
Posts: 284

6/27/12 2:40:45 PM#196

To the OP: What a silly post.

 

This is like someone selling you an apple, and you've tried it, and the wrote an essay showing all the reasons why the apple you bought and tried is not a good black-bean dip.

 

The Secret World has not been marketed and hyped as "***The Greatest Combat MMO In History! ***"

 

It's just a SWTOR-like single-player adventure video game, with the barest minimum of features to be called a MMO.  It's about mood, style, puzzles, and character costumes. 

 

Fighting is clearly just a means to an end in this game.  I'm so happy the OP just got that now.

 

For an encore, will the OP write another analysis on why EVE is such a bad FPS / dungeon crawler?

 

  Blacknd

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/06
Posts: 626

6/27/12 2:43:58 PM#197
Originally posted by Alalala

To the OP: What a silly post.

 

This is like someone selling you an apple, and you've tried it, and the wrote an essay showing all the reasons why the apple you bought and tried is not a good black-bean dip.

 

The Secret World has not been marketed and hyped as "***The Greatest Combat MMO In History! ***"

 

It's just a SWTOR-like single-player adventure video game, with the barest minimum of features to be called a MMO.  It's about mood, style, puzzles, and character costumes. 

 

Fighting is clearly just a means to an end in this game.  I'm so happy the OP just got that now.

 

For an encore, will the OP write another analysis on why EVE is such a bad FPS / dungeon crawler?

 

You're an asshole, good sir.

A big asshole.

Now I'm craving some black-bean dip..

Oh, good post. Mmm.. bean dip..

.. But in a good way.

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1614

6/27/12 2:44:39 PM#198
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Talonsin

I agree with the OP.  When I played the game I did not notice any "dynamic" combat.  I basically stood my ground and spammed my two pistol abilities.  If thats all I am going to do, I can save $60 and do it in one of the many other MMO's I have been disappointed with over the last two years. 

 

I think the OP made some strong points and proved it with his video.  You fanbois should stop spending so much time nit-picking it and acknowledge that there are issues with this game.  If enough people bring the issue forward, it will get resolved and TSW will be a better game with a bigger population.  All the denials some of you are making only hurt the game.

You made a conscious choice to spam 2 abilities and not look further. It was your choce to put no effort in. I had a few different builds all requiring a combination of 7 actives and 7 passives. I had a deck for group pvp, solo pvp, cc heavy, debuff heavy, more survival, all out dps, and hybrids of the afore mentioned.

I found the more I played with the skill wheel the more rewarding the gameplay was.

 

And by doing so you traded efficiency for flavor as the OP pointed out.  There is nothing wrong with that and for most PVE content and lower level PVP you probably are fine.  However if you start to do high level PVP or extremely challenging PVE that lack of efficiency is going to start to not only hurt you but your group mates as well.
 

How is identifying that someone is taking a long time to kill and adding debuffs and or more dps not adding efficiency. How is adding cc into your build if people are getting away from you not adding efficiency? Seems to me that I am absolutely being efficient at identifying weaknesses and creating a build to fix them. Seems to me I am reacting to what I am encountering and adapting.

 

What, high level pvp doesn't involve adapting to your opponents? High level pvp is spamming one builder and one finisher?

 

Since you brought up pve, the same applies. If the encounter isn't working out as well as you think it should you adapt and make changes. Thats is also what Funcom is going for,  that people will communicate and build their groups based on the strengths and weakness of everyone involved.

 

Its obvious that you and the OP totally missed that.

Missed what?  That the most efficient way to fill out your 7 active skills is to pick 2-3 abilities you use 90% of the time and fill the rest with ones that you use the remaining 10%?  

If you play TSW any other way you are gimping yourself and your team by giving up active slots for abilities you should be taking instead of those redundent ones.  That's what is annoying about TSW to me.  It's this great idea of open skill system that has been castrated by 7 active abilities and the builder/spender game play mechanic.

Please point out these 2-3 abilities that makes the other 500 or so obsolete? Please point out these 2-3 abilities that will do the most damage and be the best in pvp/pve solo and group play?

 

When I was playing I killed packs alot quicker using my frontal cone aoe ability build vs my single target build.

 

But I digress, please show us all your 2-3 spam-mode abilities that makes everything else useless.

Since when did this discussion stop being about rotations and start being about specific abilities?  Your rotation regradless of which weapons you pick will be 2-3 abilities you spam 90%+ of the time and the rest being ones you use the remaining 10%.  The specific abilities will be the most powerful ones in whatever two weapons you choice.

I'm done with arguing with people who think this is a deep system.  Go play whatever style you like, take 7 builders that all do the same thing if you want and see where it gets you.

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1614

6/27/12 2:49:13 PM#199
Originally posted by Alalala

To the OP: What a silly post.

 

This is like someone selling you an apple, and you've tried it, and the wrote an essay showing all the reasons why the apple you bought and tried is not a good black-bean dip.

 

The Secret World has not been marketed and hyped as "***The Greatest Combat MMO In History! ***"

 

It's just a SWTOR-like single-player adventure video game, with the barest minimum of features to be called a MMO.  It's about mood, style, puzzles, and character costumes. 

 

Fighting is clearly just a means to an end in this game.  I'm so happy the OP just got that now.

 

For an encore, will the OP write another analysis on why EVE is such a bad FPS / dungeon crawler?

 

So ponder this than.  

Why is it that the weakest gameplay element of this game is the part you spend the most time doing by far?

  ReesRacer

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/18/11
Posts: 155

6/27/12 3:12:07 PM#200
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by Talonsin

I agree with the OP.  When I played the game I did not notice any "dynamic" combat.  I basically stood my ground and spammed my two pistol abilities.  If thats all I am going to do, I can save $60 and do it in one of the many other MMO's I have been disappointed with over the last two years. 

 

I think the OP made some strong points and proved it with his video.  You fanbois should stop spending so much time nit-picking it and acknowledge that there are issues with this game.  If enough people bring the issue forward, it will get resolved and TSW will be a better game with a bigger population.  All the denials some of you are making only hurt the game.

You made a conscious choice to spam 2 abilities and not look further. It was your choce to put no effort in. I had a few different builds all requiring a combination of 7 actives and 7 passives. I had a deck for group pvp, solo pvp, cc heavy, debuff heavy, more survival, all out dps, and hybrids of the afore mentioned.

I found the more I played with the skill wheel the more rewarding the gameplay was.

 

And by doing so you traded efficiency for flavor as the OP pointed out.  There is nothing wrong with that and for most PVE content and lower level PVP you probably are fine.  However if you start to do high level PVP or extremely challenging PVE that lack of efficiency is going to start to not only hurt you but your group mates as well.
 

How is identifying that someone is taking a long time to kill and adding debuffs and or more dps not adding efficiency. How is adding cc into your build if people are getting away from you not adding efficiency? Seems to me that I am absolutely being efficient at identifying weaknesses and creating a build to fix them. Seems to me I am reacting to what I am encountering and adapting.

 

What, high level pvp doesn't involve adapting to your opponents? High level pvp is spamming one builder and one finisher?

 

Since you brought up pve, the same applies. If the encounter isn't working out as well as you think it should you adapt and make changes. Thats is also what Funcom is going for,  that people will communicate and build their groups based on the strengths and weakness of everyone involved.

 

Its obvious that you and the OP totally missed that.

Missed what?  That the most efficient way to fill out your 7 active skills is to pick 2-3 abilities you use 90% of the time and fill the rest with ones that you use the remaining 10%?  

If you play TSW any other way you are gimping yourself and your team by giving up active slots for abilities you should be taking instead of those redundent ones.  That's what is annoying about TSW to me.  It's this great idea of open skill system that has been castrated by 7 active abilities and the builder/spender game play mechanic.

Please point out these 2-3 abilities that makes the other 500 or so obsolete? Please point out these 2-3 abilities that will do the most damage and be the best in pvp/pve solo and group play?

 

When I was playing I killed packs alot quicker using my frontal cone aoe ability build vs my single target build.

 

But I digress, please show us all your 2-3 spam-mode abilities that makes everything else useless.

Since when did this discussion stop being about rotations and start being about specific abilities?  Your rotation regradless of which weapons you pick will be 2-3 abilities you spam 90%+ of the time and the rest being ones you use the remaining 10%.  The specific abilities will be the most powerful ones in whatever two weapons you choice.

I'm done with arguing with people who think this is a deep system.  Go play whatever style you like, take 7 builders that all do the same thing if you want and see where it gets you.

oh dear, you really don't get it, do you? the players who truly understand the system do not play this way, so if you are unwilling to adapt to the mechanic that is most effective, please go play something else.

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