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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Matt Firor Quote

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137 posts found
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16041

6/28/12 12:20:53 AM#101

Why does this remind me of the guy in the US patent office who said that they might as well close down since everything was already invented 100 years ago?

What the #¤%& was he thinking?

  Fearum

Elite Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1060

6/28/12 12:21:25 AM#102
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by Vorthanion

Then show me some proof in numbers to state otherwise, because you certainly don't have any convincing argument spewing from you proverbial back end.

~Or, *you* show *me* numbers that prove Skyrim sold more *new* (not used) console units than PC versions on Steam.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/88459/skyrim-sales-exceed-34-million-units-in-two-days/

Here are some actual figures, based on  NPD reports.

That's a lot of sales.  14% for PC, down from Oblivion's 18%.  However, that does not account for Steam Sales, which were approximately the same amount (based on Steam's stat-tracking system), bringing in PC to roughly 25%-30% of overall sales (I usually say 25% to be safe).  Not a majority, but a healthy chunk to be sure.

As for sales after the first two days, I imagine as modding became more prevelant, PC's percentage has continued to rise.  The CK was released, many game sites began to actively and regularly profile Skyrim mods  creating a LOT of coross-pollination from the console side.

Im going to throw in the majority of those sales were probably from people not even knowing anything about ES, they just bought it because they saw dragons. This game is being marketed to PC MMO gamers, not to everyone like ES games.

With the amount of hype surrounding Skyrim, both from BGS and the fans?  I'm willing to bet even most first-timers knew it was a big deal.

I agree on your second point, and will add that this is why this game will likely fail (ie: not be very successful).  They are targetting the wrong audience.

Unless you have a crystal ball you can say what ever you like but until it actually hits the market its all speculation.

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 663

6/28/12 12:23:02 AM#103
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by Vorthanion

Then show me some proof in numbers to state otherwise, because you certainly don't have any convincing argument spewing from you proverbial back end.

~Or, *you* show *me* numbers that prove Skyrim sold more *new* (not used) console units than PC versions on Steam.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/88459/skyrim-sales-exceed-34-million-units-in-two-days/

Here are some actual figures, based on  NPD reports.

That's a lot of sales.  14% for PC, down from Oblivion's 18%.  However, that does not account for Steam Sales, which were approximately the same amount (based on Steam's stat-tracking system), bringing in PC to roughly 25%-30% of overall sales (I usually say 25% to be safe).  Not a majority, but a healthy chunk to be sure.

As for sales after the first two days, I imagine as modding became more prevelant, PC's percentage has continued to rise.  The CK was released, many game sites began to actively and regularly profile Skyrim mods  creating a LOT of coross-pollination from the console side.

Im going to throw in the majority of those sales were probably from people not even knowing anything about ES, they just bought it because they saw dragons. This game is being marketed to PC MMO gamers, not to everyone like ES games.

With the amount of hype surrounding Skyrim, both from BGS and the fans?  I'm willing to bet even most first-timers knew it was a big deal.

I agree on your second point, and will add that this is why this game will likely fail (ie: not be very successful).  They are targetting the wrong audience.

Unless you have a crystal ball you can say what ever you like but until it actually hits the market its all speculation.

True, but I don't need a crystal ball for this one.  It's a prediction, based on mountains of evidence, not only from TES, but from past MMOs.  I could wrong, I could be right.  We'll just have to wait and see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I'm right.

:P

  Fearum

Elite Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1060

6/28/12 12:27:13 AM#104

We will see when they release it, if it fails you can jump in the air and scream I win. Not sure what your gonna win though.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16041

6/28/12 12:30:03 AM#105
Originally posted by Entinerint

True, but I don't need a crystal ball for this one.  It's a prediction, based on mountains of evidence, not only from TES, but from past MMOs.  I could wrong, I could be right.  We'll just have to wait and see.

But I'm right.

:P

Since 9 out of 10 MMOs either fails or barely survives it is not a hard bet and Firor did say an incredible stupid thing here but we have far too little information to be sure of anything besides that the game wont invent the features itself.

It could still steal little known features that most other games doesnt use or something and mixing features others already have invented can make a fun game that feels like nothing you played before, just look on GW2. 

But I will not put any money that ESO will do well... It sounds far too much like a new WAR for that.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16041

6/28/12 12:31:48 AM#106
Originally posted by Fearum

We will see when they release it, if it fails you can jump in the air and scream I win. Not sure what your gonna win though.

Sadly, the only winners are cynics and competitors.

But cynics are right far too often. :(

  Fearum

Elite Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1060

6/28/12 12:33:44 AM#107
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Fearum

We will see when they release it, if it fails you can jump in the air and scream I win. Not sure what your gonna win though.

Sadly, the only winners are cynics and competitors.

But cynics are right far too often. :(

True, its an easier bet. I could really careless if it is a huge success or not, I just hope the game will be fun.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16041

6/28/12 12:39:27 AM#108
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Fearum

We will see when they release it, if it fails you can jump in the air and scream I win. Not sure what your gonna win though.

Sadly, the only winners are cynics and competitors.

But cynics are right far too often. :(

True, its an easier bet. I could really careless if it is a huge success or not, I just hope the game will be fun.

Me too, the world needs more fun games, not less.

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

6/28/12 12:41:36 AM#109

If it's not fun, do I get to come back and validate my stance, then rub salt on the wounds of those defending it since the beginning?

I will accept defeat if it ends up being the second coming of christ, as a fair trade.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Fearum

Elite Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1060

6/28/12 12:43:13 AM#110

You can dance in your chair for all I care. Nobody will probably care because they will look to the next big game announced. The world will not stop for any game.

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

6/28/12 12:44:37 AM#111
Originally posted by Fearum

You can dance in your chair for all I care. Nobody will probably care because they will look to the next big game announced.

~and I will be there too... stomping on all the flowers, and killing off the butterflies of their delusions again.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Fearum

Elite Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1060

6/28/12 12:48:11 AM#112
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by Fearum

You can dance in your chair for all I care. Nobody will probably care because they will look to the next big game announced.

~and I will be there too... stomping on all the flowers, and killing off the butterflies of their delusions again.

What ever turns you on :)

  User Deleted
6/28/12 12:52:55 AM#113

Theme park gamers could very well be nomadic gamers, but so could any other type of gamer. That is just an assumption based on a personal opinion. It could also be very wrong. Gamers might not be nomadic at all if their beloved titles could provide the entertainment and excitement they require. Some game and developers can bring a title back to life several times over and others just can't get one to show any signs of life at all.

This thread is crammed full of highly disappointed people. That is understandable. I would love to see Skyrim Online. The reality is that it is just not going to happen. I have no idea exactly why, but I suspect that it is about money. A generic MMO with a multitude of familiar MMO components will sell far more boxes and subs than a complete copy of Skyrim with online multi-player features.

The reason for this different concept is because here on an MMO site people assume that their view of gaming is representative of every gamer. The reality is very different. Someone stated before that "most of the people that play Skyrim, or the Elder Scrolls also play MMOs" or something to that effect, I am paraphrasing mind you, but this is another assumption. Just because you are an MMO gamer and play an Elder Scrolls game does not mean that everyone else is. There are large groups of players that only play console games, and there are plenty of people that only play computer games.

This can be broken down into very finite groups such as players that only play Facebook games or FPS games and more or less obvious others. The main point is that too many people take their perspective or view and label everyone else with it as if there are no other options. While I would love to see Skyrim online with many if not all of the same features and design concepts I also look forward to what Zenimax has to offer and will reserve my judgement until I have played the game before choosing a yay or nay view.

I do believe that TESO is designed to attract casual gamers. The reason for this is simple. Casual gamers are easier to please, and willing to spend money without freaking out over every little hiccup they encounter. They are a big part of the MMO population. Their expectations are much lower than the hardcore players. They only play a few hours a week and they keep paying even if they are not playing. They don't read the forums, they don't rate the graphics or combat, they just play and have fun. Something hardcore MMO gamers seem to miss out on these days.

If most of the really negative people around here never play TESO, that would be for the best. I really have no desire to see you all flooding the chat channels with hate and bile due to a preconceived notion of failure. You are entitled to your opinions and you are certainly not forced to play. I just hope you folks can actually stay away though. The game could actually be fun to play, but your negativity is like a virus. Some of you are trying to kill it out of shear spite due to missed expectations. It is as if some people have decided that if you can't have the game you wanted, you are determined to make everyone else agree. I picture children throwing temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. Every post and thread seems to drip with child like frustration instead of legitimate concern.

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 663

6/28/12 6:09:32 AM#114
Originally posted by chefdiablo

Theme park gamers could very well be nomadic gamers, but so could any other type of gamer. That is just an assumption based on a personal opinion. It could also be very wrong. Gamers might not be nomadic at all if their beloved titles could provide the entertainment and excitement they require. Some game and developers can bring a title back to life several times over and others just can't get one to show any signs of life at all.

This thread is crammed full of highly disappointed people. That is understandable. I would love to see Skyrim Online. The reality is that it is just not going to happen. I have no idea exactly why, but I suspect that it is about money. A generic MMO with a multitude of familiar MMO components will sell far more boxes and subs than a complete copy of Skyrim with online multi-player features.

The reason for this different concept is because here on an MMO site people assume that their view of gaming is representative of every gamer. The reality is very different. Someone stated before that "most of the people that play Skyrim, or the Elder Scrolls also play MMOs" or something to that effect, I am paraphrasing mind you, but this is another assumption. Just because you are an MMO gamer and play an Elder Scrolls game does not mean that everyone else is. There are large groups of players that only play console games, and there are plenty of people that only play computer games.

This can be broken down into very finite groups such as players that only play Facebook games or FPS games and more or less obvious others. The main point is that too many people take their perspective or view and label everyone else with it as if there are no other options. While I would love to see Skyrim online with many if not all of the same features and design concepts I also look forward to what Zenimax has to offer and will reserve my judgement until I have played the game before choosing a yay or nay view.

I do believe that TESO is designed to attract casual gamers. The reason for this is simple. Casual gamers are easier to please, and willing to spend money without freaking out over every little hiccup they encounter. They are a big part of the MMO population. Their expectations are much lower than the hardcore players. They only play a few hours a week and they keep paying even if they are not playing. They don't read the forums, they don't rate the graphics or combat, they just play and have fun. Something hardcore MMO gamers seem to miss out on these days.

If most of the really negative people around here never play TESO, that would be for the best. I really have no desire to see you all flooding the chat channels with hate and bile due to a preconceived notion of failure. You are entitled to your opinions and you are certainly not forced to play. I just hope you folks can actually stay away though. The game could actually be fun to play, but your negativity is like a virus. Some of you are trying to kill it out of shear spite due to missed expectations. It is as if some people have decided that if you can't have the game you wanted, you are determined to make everyone else agree. I picture children throwing temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. Every post and thread seems to drip with child like frustration instead of legitimate concern.

A thoughtful post, to be sure, but I imagine people's disappointment will only grow as we learn more and more about the game.

Frankly, it serves ZOS right if there are tons of negative people on their forums and in their game (although I don't see why, if you're so disappointed in the game, that you'd pay any money toward it - unless its F2P in which case, divines help them).  That is no-one's fault but their own.  They can either course-correct and try to fix these things, or they can jam their heads firmly in the sand until launch and pretend everything is fine.

They will ultimately reap what they sow.

It is just a pity that people's hopes and dreams for a proper TES MMORPG are being reaped along with them.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 3694

6/28/12 7:54:12 AM#115
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by Fearum

You can dance in your chair for all I care. Nobody will probably care because they will look to the next big game announced.

~and I will be there too... stomping on all the flowers, and killing off the butterflies of their delusions again.

What ever turns you on :)

sounds like good times!

nothing more satisfying that stoping the butterfiles of delusional people who are able to take actions on their insanity simply because they have several million dollars in their pocket and the authority to tell developers what to do like puppet masters

That is the best kind of fun!

does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!?

  User Deleted
6/28/12 9:48:23 AM#116


Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by chefdiablo Theme park gamers could very well be nomadic gamers, but so could any other type of gamer. That is just an assumption based on a personal opinion. It could also be very wrong. Gamers might not be nomadic at all if their beloved titles could provide the entertainment and excitement they require. Some game and developers can bring a title back to life several times over and others just can't get one to show any signs of life at all. This thread is crammed full of highly disappointed people. That is understandable. I would love to see Skyrim Online. The reality is that it is just not going to happen. I have no idea exactly why, but I suspect that it is about money. A generic MMO with a multitude of familiar MMO components will sell far more boxes and subs than a complete copy of Skyrim with online multi-player features. The reason for this different concept is because here on an MMO site people assume that their view of gaming is representative of every gamer. The reality is very different. Someone stated before that "most of the people that play Skyrim, or the Elder Scrolls also play MMOs" or something to that effect, I am paraphrasing mind you, but this is another assumption. Just because you are an MMO gamer and play an Elder Scrolls game does not mean that everyone else is. There are large groups of players that only play console games, and there are plenty of people that only play computer games. This can be broken down into very finite groups such as players that only play Facebook games or FPS games and more or less obvious others. The main point is that too many people take their perspective or view and label everyone else with it as if there are no other options. While I would love to see Skyrim online with many if not all of the same features and design concepts I also look forward to what Zenimax has to offer and will reserve my judgement until I have played the game before choosing a yay or nay view. I do believe that TESO is designed to attract casual gamers. The reason for this is simple. Casual gamers are easier to please, and willing to spend money without freaking out over every little hiccup they encounter. They are a big part of the MMO population. Their expectations are much lower than the hardcore players. They only play a few hours a week and they keep paying even if they are not playing. They don't read the forums, they don't rate the graphics or combat, they just play and have fun. Something hardcore MMO gamers seem to miss out on these days. If most of the really negative people around here never play TESO, that would be for the best. I really have no desire to see you all flooding the chat channels with hate and bile due to a preconceived notion of failure. You are entitled to your opinions and you are certainly not forced to play. I just hope you folks can actually stay away though. The game could actually be fun to play, but your negativity is like a virus. Some of you are trying to kill it out of shear spite due to missed expectations. It is as if some people have decided that if you can't have the game you wanted, you are determined to make everyone else agree. I picture children throwing temper tantrums when they don't get what they want. Every post and thread seems to drip with child like frustration instead of legitimate concern.
A thoughtful post, to be sure, but I imagine people's disappointment will only grow as we learn more and more about the game.

Frankly, it serves ZOS right if there are tons of negative people on their forums and in their game (although I don't see why, if you're so disappointed in the game, that you'd pay any money toward it - unless its F2P in which case, divines help them).  That is no-one's fault but their own.  They can either course-correct and try to fix these things, or they can jam their heads firmly in the sand until launch and pretend everything is fine.

They will ultimately reap what they sow.

It is just a pity that people's hopes and dreams for a proper TES MMORPG are being reaped along with them.


Like many others I am disappointed that what I imagined the MMO would be like is going to have a different art style and a more casual approach. I am not so disappointed that I will hate the game out of spite, but rather give them a chance to put out what could be a quality game that is fun to play even if it is not exactly like Skyrim.

I am not certain I am going to buy it. I would wait to see actual game play, perhaps get in some beta testing if possible and make my choice at that time. Bashing the game at this stage based on some interviews is very premature at this point. People have their panties in a knot over speculation. Every time someone at Zenimax farts this board lights up with doom threads.

TESO might very well fail. I just would prefer to give them a chance to fail or not before dropping the axe. Civilized people call it a trial.

  mklinic

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/05
Posts: 1421

6/28/12 9:50:11 AM#117

Before TESO was announced, I'm pretty sure the idea of an ES based MMO had been discussed more then a few times over the years. People would list off which ES title would be better suited, which region(s) it should take place in, etc, etc. I can't help but wonder how many of those discussions ever envisioned the set of features we are hearing about today.

I get people that approve of the info that's been released so far and glad they are happy. That said, I would put myself in the shoes of those who never expected an ES MMO to take the direction it appears to be going. Don't mistake this for being a "hater" as I am really trying to take a 'wait and see' mentality, but I can understand those who might feel a bit 'blindsided' and detached from a game that, had it continued to evolve the 'ES formula', they would have embraced with open arms....Well, this is mmorpg.com, so 'open arms' might be expecting too much, but it would have at least gotten a chest bump.

More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement, but I'm not sure that vindicates the speaker much. Honestly, this could turn out to be a great game, but maybe they should just let a community manager speak in interviews and let the production/dev people do what they do. I mean, the fact we are talking more about some guys pedigree and things he's said, rather then the game itself is a bit of a warning sign....It reminds me a bit of WarHammer in that respect.

-mklinic

"There's a point I think we're missing.
It's in the air we raise our fists in."
-from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1355

6/28/12 11:00:04 AM#118
Originally posted by mklinic

 

More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement,

 I'm not really responding to you, I've just seen variations of this comment a lot in multiple locations.

"context" is usually what it comes down to.

The quote is ENTIRELY within it's context.  There was no larger thought, or point that was being made to apply it to.  He was speaking on the concept of innovation in MMO's and nothing more when he said what he said.  The rest of what he said didn't even really have anything to do with innovation, and only contradicted what he said anyways.

 

He was making the point that there ISN'T MUCH ROOM TO INNOVATE, because everything you can do in an MMO has already been done.  There is no outside conetext when you say that, and that is exactly what he was saying. 

The point he was attempting to make was WHY YOU SEE THE SAME THINGS USED IN A LOT OF MMO'S.  THAT was the context.  Why are is there so much, what seems like, cut and paste development in MMO's?  Because pretty much everything that can be done, has been done, and that doesn't leave much room to innovate. 

He then proceeded to ramble on about people playing korean MMO's.  The worste thing he actually said was that "you don't look at what other people are doing to get ideas, and use them", or something to that effect.  Yet that is EXACTLY what they're doing. 

Firor is back pedalling on most of the stuff he originally said.

First he said combat would be you're typical hotbar style combat, with a control scheme and feel simillar to WoW, and not "real time".  When people got mad over that, he then switched to calling it "action" combat. 

He said that the game needed to be familliar to the general MMOer because if the game played like skryim then people wouldn't really understand how to play it.  A little paraphrasing, but that is exactly what he said.  Then, in the exact same interview that the quote we're discussing came from, he said that the game would have the same races, lore, and minimul UI to be accessable to console gamers who played ES.  He's trying to move away from the image that the game is developed to appeal to the "typical" mmo gamer, and make it look like they're making it with the intent to appeal to ES players.

Mcklinic is very right.  Firor needs to stop talking.  He's doing nothing to help the negative image the game has recieved, and only digging a deeper and deeper hole. 

There's nothing that they can say about this game that is going to make people who've been playing MMO's for the last 10 years think that they have to play this.  Outside of using the ES setting, there's nothing they're doing that sets it appart, and most of it's only going to appeal to people who liked the wowified version of DAoC. 

You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade.  Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches.  A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing. 

Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies.  There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through.  Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 3694

6/28/12 11:42:15 AM#119
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by mklinic

 

More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement,

 You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade.  Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches.  A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing. 

Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies.  There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through.  Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.

lol.

and at the deli next door you had a sandwich with a different tasty kind of bread on it and you walk into his store and he tells you that you dont want that kind of bread and besides its not really possible on a sandwich anyway

does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!?

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1106

6/28/12 11:53:41 AM#120
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by mklinic

 

More on topic: As for the quote, I can see it is part of a larger statement,

 You can't sell ham sandwiches to people that have been eating ham sandwiches every day for the last decade.  Spicy mustard or miracle whip doesn't make your ham sandwich any more special then the other guys, and people are getting tired of eating your ham sandwiches.  A little olive loaf every now and then isn't a bad thing. 

Everything they're doing has already been talked up by countless other companies.  There's nothing you can say at this point that people won't see through.  Just shut up, develop it - you obviously don't care what any of the ES fans think - release it, and let it fall into the pit of mediocrity with every other themepark MMO that isn't WoW.

lol.

and at the deli next door you had a sandwich with a different tasty kind of bread on it and you walk into his store and he tells you that you dont want that kind of bread and besides its not really possible on a sandwich anyway

So Im guessing that putting a slice of cheese on that sandwich is Too Hard?

 

 

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
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Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

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