Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Dewm

 

 

I would argue, what in a MMO isn't a hassle?

 Fighting is not a hassle. Getting that new upgrade is not a hassle. Ding your level and earn new ability is not an hassle. All fun for me

For me, raiding only to get gear is a hassle. and in MOST recent MMO's combat is just bland and boring,...and doesn't really have any gameplay value.

 

so why are you playing a mmo?

To have fun, to be entertained, of course.

 

Well duh, my question was more, why do you play a MMORPG? vs. a mmofps, or a mmorts, or a fps, or a rts or a city builder etc... 

 

I know that I fell in love with mmorpg's because of the masivly multiplayer part, combined with the role playing game. I love fantasy WORLDS I love exploring new area's I love all of the little things that make a game great, combine that with some awesome people, and you have a game I will not put down.

But now Devs are more focused on making a MSPG (Massivly Single Player Game)

Well I consider choices and decision making in non combat situations fun. This includes social structure limitations, appearance, energy/stamina management, alternate advancement systems and of cource inventory management.

I like these types of things. However, the average modern day gamer sees everything that gets in the way of combat as a nusiance and wants it to go away.

Heck, we even got rid of meaningful out of combat choices that affect your characters COMBAT permanenetly (Stats, or skill point allocation, talents). The trend is to dumb these things down too....and then we will have action games.

I want more non combat choices to make in my MMOs. Inventory management is a subset of this.

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by NorseGod

It required thinking. Thinking is outdated and so 1999.

Remember eating and drinking?

Remember picking a certain species for specific attributes to better min/max your class?

Remember corpse runs?

Remember planning with your friends how to get from a city to a dungeon across zones alive?

Remember having good standing with a npc faction but couldn't go to town because your friend in the group was KOS?

Get with it man, it's 2012. Wait in your city (lobby) for your que to pop and warp you to wherever you want to go. Then spam 1112311123 (or use a macro to fight for you)  for 15 mins and get the uber loot.

The problem is games are measured based on how deep/compelling they are.

And while those mechanics often made gaming more of a hassle, they rarely added much in the way of depth.

And so they disappeared.

I couldnt disagree more, those items added depth that you just dont see.  The above items you consider as "hassles" is the mentality that has slowly erroded gameplay in modern MMO's.

Others see them for what they are opportunities / planning / resourcesfullness / intelligent game choices etc.  But nah they are just hassels right?  Toss them out send me to end game in 3 days so I can complain.  Just give me more monsters to kill bigger weapons and flashier spells.

How did encumbrance add depth?  I already explained why it doesn't.  I would like to hear how it does.  It was meaningless and added nothing to the game.  It didn't make the game more challenging or more interesting.  It was simply there as an artificial limit to inventory.  It wasn't even implemented in a realistic fashion.

I would be all for an encumbrance/weight and inventory mass system if it made sense within the game framework and added something.  Depth is great.  Hassle mechanics are not.

I would argue, what in a MMO isn't a hassle?

Why start at level 1 and have to spend 3 days to get to cap? why not start at max level? isn't starting at level 1 just a "artificial limit"?

Why have more then 1 set of gear for each class? I mean why have gear that "isn't as good"? isn't it just a hassle?

I don't get this "hassle" argument, Everything in a MMO is built as a time sink, leveling, class design, inventories, gear, auction houses, traveling, cooldowns

EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so why are you playing a mmo?

I see so boring tedium is good for game design.

Maybe a huge problem with game design has been and continues to be not making a distinction between time sinks that are engaging and fun, that provide puzzles to solve and systems to interact with and shallow boring tedium.

If everything is the same hassle, you know EVERYTHING!!!!!!!1111eleventyone!!!!!, then why add or change anything?  What does it matter if there is no encumbrance because another time sink has taken its place.  All elements are the same right? We should be good just making a bunch of EQ clones over and over again right.

so why are you complaining about the status quo?  why are *you* playing an MMO?

Puzzles, quests, dungeons, raids all take huge amounts of time for a developer to design, implement, test (hopefully) and launch.

Changing existing systems to have players have to think and plan ahead takes far few resources above what implementing a basic system requires.

I would love to have engrossing deep lore quests and puzzles from level 1 to max, never having to kill 10 mobs or collect 10 hides but that isn't going to happen. I don't see the difference between killing 5 mobs for 1000 exp that take 5-10 minutes to kill and killing 100 mobs in 10 minutes for the same gain. I'd prefer the more intense 5 mobs with recuperation inbetween each one but to each his own. I'd also prefer if it took a hardcore player a whole week to get to 50% max level and a whole month to get max but those days are over too it seems. Race to max and earn your price, the gear grind...i'll pass on those mmos.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by NorseGod

It required thinking. Thinking is outdated and so 1999.

Remember eating and drinking?

Remember picking a certain species for specific attributes to better min/max your class?

Remember corpse runs?

Remember planning with your friends how to get from a city to a dungeon across zones alive?

Remember having good standing with a npc faction but couldn't go to town because your friend in the group was KOS?

Get with it man, it's 2012. Wait in your city (lobby) for your que to pop and warp you to wherever you want to go. Then spam 1112311123 (or use a macro to fight for you)  for 15 mins and get the uber loot.

The problem is games are measured based on how deep/compelling they are.

And while those mechanics often made gaming more of a hassle, they rarely added much in the way of depth.

And so they disappeared.

I couldnt disagree more, those items added depth that you just dont see.  The above items you consider as "hassles" is the mentality that has slowly erroded gameplay in modern MMO's.

Others see them for what they are opportunities / planning / resourcesfullness / intelligent game choices etc.  But nah they are just hassels right?  Toss them out send me to end game in 3 days so I can complain.  Just give me more monsters to kill bigger weapons and flashier spells.

How did encumbrance add depth?  I already explained why it doesn't.  I would like to hear how it does.  It was meaningless and added nothing to the game.  It didn't make the game more challenging or more interesting.  It was simply there as an artificial limit to inventory.  It wasn't even implemented in a realistic fashion.

I would be all for an encumbrance/weight and inventory mass system if it made sense within the game framework and added something.  Depth is great.  Hassle mechanics are not.

I would argue, what in a MMO isn't a hassle?

Why start at level 1 and have to spend 3 days to get to cap? why not start at max level? isn't starting at level 1 just a "artificial limit"?

Why have more then 1 set of gear for each class? I mean why have gear that "isn't as good"? isn't it just a hassle?

I don't get this "hassle" argument, Everything in a MMO is built as a time sink, leveling, class design, inventories, gear, auction houses, traveling, cooldowns

EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so why are you playing a mmo?

I see so boring tedium is good for game design.

Maybe a huge problem with game design has been and continues to be not making a distinction between time sinks that are engaging and fun, that provide puzzles to solve and systems to interact with and shallow boring tedium.

If everything is the same hassle, you know EVERYTHING!!!!!!!1111eleventyone!!!!!, then why add or change anything?  What does it matter if there is no encumbrance because another time sink has taken its place.  All elements are the same right? We should be good just making a bunch of EQ clones over and over again right.

so why are you complaining about the status quo?  why are *you* playing an MMO?

Soooo you didn't get the sarcasm at all...and didn't understand the point I was making, so I will say this in just plain english.

if something is fun for you. it doesn't mean its fun for someone else. 

You said "I see so boring tedium is good for game design" WHO THE FRUITECAKE SAID IT WAS BORING?!!!!

See you look at one game eliment and your like "I don't enjoy it, its boring...everyone must think its boring"

Honestly in 99% of the new MMO's that have come out in the last 6 years.. I find the combat boring...its all the same. So if I think the combat is boring everyone must think its boring, and we should do away with combat.

Do you understand now? or should I type slower :)

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Dewm

 

 

I would argue, what in a MMO isn't a hassle?

 Fighting is not a hassle. Getting that new upgrade is not a hassle. Ding your level and earn new ability is not an hassle. All fun for me

For me, raiding only to get gear is a hassle. and in MOST recent MMO's combat is just bland and boring,...and doesn't really have any gameplay value.

 For you .. obviously not for the millions of players who like this kind of gameplay. Combat is fun for me. It is fun to see big numbers of damage. It is fun to be able to kill hordes of mobs. It is fun to kill bosses.

You don't like it, don't play it. But it is clear that comabt is not a hassle, and fun for many.

so why are you playing a mmo?

To have fun, to be entertained, of course.

 

Well duh, my question was more, why do you play a MMORPG? vs. a mmofps, or a mmorts, or a fps, or a rts or a city builder etc... 

I do play mmofps, fps, action RPG and other games. There is really nothing that special about MMOs. If it is fun (for me), i will play it for a while. Many MMOs are no different than hack-n-slash co-op online games like Diablo 3 or Borderland.

I play so i can have some fun combat .. sometimes alone, sometimes with a group and progress my character.