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  User Deleted
6/25/12 10:20:44 PM#41
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

Why can't be have both? Have a hotbar with cooldowns, but be able to left click right click in between cooldowns.

 

If you think twitch based is unrealistic then you are downright stupid. Play oblivion on the hardest setting and go into the Arena. That is realtime combat, blocking, aiming, dodging, running, positioning for your next quick swing or power strike.

 

Hotbar makes for no skill its all about gear and level. I got better gear so I do 600 damage on this hotkey and you do 510. I have more health cause I got better armor so you can't win. woooohooooo...

 

Bring twitched base SKILL back into MMORPG's!

Twitch base skill has nevre been apart of MMO's.  None of the AAA MMO's ive played has ever used twitch as a means of player skill.  I believe you're talking about FPS so if that is what you want play a FPS.

  User Deleted
6/25/12 10:26:12 PM#42
Originally posted by UnleadedRev

Why cant they just take Skyrim and make it Massive Multiplayer?

Seems the first step when creating a MMORPG of any kind is ti hose it up with something stupid.

They are in essence.

 

Open World - Check

Open Ended character systems - Any character can use any weapon - Check

Combat with TES flair - Active Dodging/Blocking, evey class can stealth, limited skills - Check

Compass to guide you to P.O.I.'s - Check

 

In fact the only thing lacking from TESO that is similar (note I use the word similar instead of identical) to TES games is a housing system which I agree is a horible gaming decision as I really would love to see it implemented but to say TESO has nothing in common with a TES style game such as Skyrim is assanine.  In fact not only does it resemble Skyrim or other TES games but it adds upon and increases focus on the MMO portion of which the single player variants would be extremely lacking in.

  Entinerint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 713

6/26/12 3:30:52 AM#43
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by UnleadedRev

Why cant they just take Skyrim and make it Massive Multiplayer?

Seems the first step when creating a MMORPG of any kind is ti hose it up with something stupid.

They are in essence.

 

Open World - Check

Open Ended character systems - Any character can use any weapon - Check

Combat with TES flair - Active Dodging/Blocking, evey class can stealth, limited skills - Check

Compass to guide you to P.O.I.'s - Check

 

In fact the only thing lacking from TESO that is similar (note I use the word similar instead of identical) to TES games is a housing system which I agree is a horible gaming decision as I really would love to see it implemented but to say TESO has nothing in common with a TES style game such as Skyrim is assanine.  In fact not only does it resemble Skyrim or other TES games but it adds upon and increases focus on the MMO portion of which the single player variants would be extremely lacking in.

Open World - No.  You can only go into territory your faction owns as well as the PvP zone of Cyrodiil, and not all of the parts of the continent are unlocked to save room for "expansion content."

Open Ended Character Systems - No.  Weapons having nothing to do with defining custom classes via skill progression.  If you've played WoW then you know how their weapon system will work: your to-hit ratio gets better with a weapon type the more you use it.

TES Style combat - No.  It doesn't have "TES flair," it has been compared to GW2 and Neverwinter only with less polish.  You don't aim your spells, arrows or weapon swings, you don't have to use the environment to your advantage.

Compass to guide you to POI's - Check, something almost every MMORPG has.

Any race being able to join any faction - No.

Viable First-Person view-point (with 3rd-person as a secondary option) - No.  You can't see your hands/arms in first-person and no effort is made for you to feel like you are your character so it is as immersive and viable as WoW first-person.

Player housing - No.

Imperials as a playable race - No.

You can kill anyone at any time for any reason and take evrything on their body - No.

A crime and punishement system to prevent that from being too easy a play-style - No.

Non-obvious quest sources - No.  According to E3 converage, quest-givers and quest areas glow when they have something for you, unlike all TES games where you have to talk to each NPC and find out if they have anything for you to do.

The ability to remain neutral in any conflict - No.

A gritty, dark-fantasy art-style - No.

TES lore - Barely.  The names are there, but the amount of retconning and butchering they're doing to get it to fit the DAOC design doc is mind-blowing.

Readable in-game books - Unknown.  It has been mentioned that there are books that offer quests and there is a place you can go to read lore books but nothing about books just being available in the world.

Minimalist unintrusive HUD - Check.  Except that there are apparently big on-screen red and green indicators for your targets (yes its tab-targeting) and we'll likely see numbers flying out of people when we hit them (without aiming) - why do people always bleed numbers in these games!?

________________________________________

As Todd Howard has said numerous times, TES is the way it is because of all its parts working together in a very specific way.  Every element of TES is important to the whole in order for it to be a TES game.  This is one of the reasons he appreciates but also regrets the "experiments" that were Battlespire and Redguard, the only two commercial and critical failures in the TES series.  They strayed from what made TES TES and they were put down for it.

You can't simply pick and choose TES features at random to love and hold on to.  Sure, you can adapt them to the MMO format, since none of them are really "new" to MMORPGs anyway, they just haven't all been done in the same game.

What we have here is a case of lazy, thoughtless devs making a lazy thoughtless game with a much-bloved IP and spitting in the faces of those fans who have helped make the IP so popular that it just demanded an MMO.  The potential for an amazing game was there.  I'm sure, by MMO standards it will be "fine" but by TES standards, it will be garbage.

Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

Why can't be have both? Have a hotbar with cooldowns, but be able to left click right click in between cooldowns.

 

If you think twitch based is unrealistic then you are downright stupid. Play oblivion on the hardest setting and go into the Arena. That is realtime combat, blocking, aiming, dodging, running, positioning for your next quick swing or power strike.

 

Hotbar makes for no skill its all about gear and level. I got better gear so I do 600 damage on this hotkey and you do 510. I have more health cause I got better armor so you can't win. woooohooooo...

 

Bring twitched base SKILL back into MMORPG's!

Twitch base skill has nevre been apart of MMO's.  None of the AAA MMO's ive played has ever used twitch as a means of player skill.  I believe you're talking about FPS so if that is what you want play a FPS.

Meridian 59 was the first true MMO (before Ultima) and it was twitch-based.

They've never used twitch because it is harder to code and balance.  Not impossible, just harder.  Hell, tiny teams of devs with almost no money (read: Aventurine, StarVault) have managed it in an MMORPG so why can't 250 devs with hundreds of millions do the same?  Because they are lazy and cowardly, that's why.

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

6/26/12 3:41:33 AM#44

Anyone that attests that EQ-style combat is what makes an MMO an MMO needs to have his right to give an opinion revoked.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4641

6/26/12 11:38:06 AM#45
Originally posted by Acidon

I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

I know, going off-topic.

for many of us 'lore' is on the bottom of the list of importance.

you could make the game checkers, install 'lore' and its still checkers. if I want a story I will read a book.

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4641

6/26/12 11:39:45 AM#46
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by UnleadedRev

Why cant they just take Skyrim and make it Massive Multiplayer?

Seems the first step when creating a MMORPG of any kind is ti hose it up with something stupid.

Open Ended character systems - Any character can use any weapon - Check

that is hysterical!

because any character can use any weapon its 'open ended character system'?

This is better than a sitcom, its why I come here for the humor.

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  User Deleted
6/26/12 11:45:37 AM#47

Meh, seems like another mmo focused on nothing more than combat anyway. While to that's not the most important thing in an rpg, i do prefer more action oriented. Why not just make a combination.

Instead of tab-tageting, hot-key only, make it FPS/TPS based with the 2 mouse buttons for te 2 basic attacks (something like slash and block) and use hotkey spells too. Maybe eve, pressing one of the keys would switch the 2 mouse button skills.

Having to press a hotkey doesn't mean it as to be tab-target.

  Jetrpg

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2392

6/26/12 12:06:20 PM#48
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Meh, seems like another mmo focused on nothing more than combat anyway. While to that's not the most important thing in an rpg, i do prefer more action oriented. Why not just make a combination.

Instead of tab-tageting, hot-key only, make it FPS/TPS based with the 2 mouse buttons for te 2 basic attacks (something like slash and block) and use hotkey spells too. Maybe eve, pressing one of the keys would switch the 2 mouse button skills.

Having to press a hotkey doesn't mean it as to be tab-target.

"Instead of tab-tageting, hot-key only, make it FPS/TPS based with the 2 mouse buttons for te 2 basic attacks (something like slash and block) and use hotkey spells too. Maybe eve, pressing one of the keys would switch the 2 mouse button skills."

Love this part, i want twitch based combat because of skill... But don't ask me to use more than 2 abilities at any given time.. thats too hard.

Ill take tons of abilities (thus a large room for tactics and character planning) on top of tes or more fps "twitch" based combat please.

After all i can handle more than 2 abilities and like my games combat to have some depth.

I perfer more abilties over tews or fps style combat because thos most definatly have greater depth to combat.

As for thew DAOC2, if this be true then i could only be so happy.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4641

6/26/12 12:45:08 PM#49
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Meh, seems like another mmo focused on nothing more than combat anyway. While to that's not the most important thing in an rpg, i do prefer more action oriented. Why not just make a combination.

Instead of tab-tageting, hot-key only, make it FPS/TPS based with the 2 mouse buttons for te 2 basic attacks (something like slash and block) and use hotkey spells too. Maybe eve, pressing one of the keys would switch the 2 mouse button skills.

Having to press a hotkey doesn't mean it as to be tab-target.

"Instead of tab-tageting, hot-key only, make it FPS/TPS based with the 2 mouse buttons for te 2 basic attacks (something like slash and block) and use hotkey spells too. Maybe eve, pressing one of the keys would switch the 2 mouse button skills."

Love this part, i want twitch based combat because of skill... But don't ask me to use more than 2 abilities at any given time.. thats too hard.

Ill take tons of abilities (thus a large room for tactics and character planning) on top of tes or more fps "twitch" based combat please.

After all i can handle more than 2 abilities and like my games combat to have some depth.

I perfer more abilties over tews or fps style combat because thos most definatly have greater depth to combat.

As for thew DAOC2, if this be true then i could only be so happy.

darkfall.

so far everything that TES fans declare they want and all the features that zenimax says is to hard, not possible or we dont want exist in Darkfall currently. including fast FPS combat with a f8ck ton of control options

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  Entinerint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 713

6/26/12 2:18:07 PM#50
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Jetrpg
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Meh, seems like another mmo focused on nothing more than combat anyway. While to that's not the most important thing in an rpg, i do prefer more action oriented. Why not just make a combination.

Instead of tab-tageting, hot-key only, make it FPS/TPS based with the 2 mouse buttons for te 2 basic attacks (something like slash and block) and use hotkey spells too. Maybe eve, pressing one of the keys would switch the 2 mouse button skills.

Having to press a hotkey doesn't mean it as to be tab-target.

"Instead of tab-tageting, hot-key only, make it FPS/TPS based with the 2 mouse buttons for te 2 basic attacks (something like slash and block) and use hotkey spells too. Maybe eve, pressing one of the keys would switch the 2 mouse button skills."

Love this part, i want twitch based combat because of skill... But don't ask me to use more than 2 abilities at any given time.. thats too hard.

Ill take tons of abilities (thus a large room for tactics and character planning) on top of tes or more fps "twitch" based combat please.

After all i can handle more than 2 abilities and like my games combat to have some depth.

I perfer more abilties over tews or fps style combat because thos most definatly have greater depth to combat.

As for thew DAOC2, if this be true then i could only be so happy.

darkfall.

so far everything that TES fans declare they want and all the features that zenimax says is to hard, not possible or we dont want exist in Darkfall currently. including fast FPS combat with a f8ck ton of control options

As a high warlord in WoW who has utterly mastered the mile-wide inch-deep rock-paper-scissors of WoW's PvP (although I haven't played during Cata) I can tell you that end-game Darkfall combat still eludes me.  It is so complex and deep I have a tough time wrapping my head around it sometimes. 

You actually have to train and practice, and work in tandem with others, whereas WoW (all the options, none of the limits) is all memorization.  Once you know how to counter something, it's all repetition.  But in Darkfall, and any game that combines twitch combat with abilities, is so much more dynamic, deep and rich.  The battles are different every time.  Whereas in WoW, it is the same thing over and over; you reach the end-game plateau and you just rinse-repeat.

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1597

6/26/12 3:03:02 PM#51
Originally posted by KingGator

If you want to play an fps game then go play one, this is an mmorpg, which should play like one. I am starting to feel like this game is going to have some success.  It might be just because if it is good the months of irrational hate threads here are going to be worth the price of admission to borrow a  turn of phrase. :)

 It's exactly this kind of thinking that leads to zero creativety. 

I guess Skyrim is an FPS and not an RPG?  How about oblivion?  Morrowind?  Daggerfall?

Is Meridian 59 not an MMORPG?  Mortal online?  Darkfall?

MMORPG says NOTHING about how combat is resolved, only that it's a roleplaying game that is played online with lots of other people.

  Valua

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 521

6/26/12 3:07:27 PM#52
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

 

Get over it.

 

You guys have to remember it's not an Elder Scrolls game.

 

It's an MMO based in the Elder Scrolls universe.

 

I think it looks amazing.

  rdrakken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

6/26/12 3:09:06 PM#53
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

Just because the game is called Elder Scrolls Online it doesnt mean its going to have one single thing the other Elder Scrolls games had.

Dont you know a Corporate attempt to bastardize a known copyright for as much money as possible when you see it? Or did you think they actually gave a rats backside what ES players actually played the games for? lol...as if common sense has a place in the business world.

  dronfwar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/11
Posts: 323

1+1=1
(IMO)

6/26/12 3:14:00 PM#54
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by KingGator

If you want to play an fps game then go play one, this is an mmorpg, which should play like one. I am starting to feel like this game is going to have some success.  It might be just because if it is good the months of irrational hate threads here are going to be worth the price of admission to borrow a  turn of phrase. :)

 It's exactly this kind of thinking that leads to zero creativety. 

I guess Skyrim is an FPS and not an RPG?  How about oblivion?  Morrowind?  Daggerfall?

Is Meridian 59 not an MMORPG?  Mortal online?  Darkfall?

MMORPG says NOTHING about how combat is resolved, only that it's a roleplaying game that is played online with lots of other people.

what's up with you???

MMO means it has to be a WoW Clone!!!111!!!! and the gameplay must be so easy that the average housewife feels home.

lotsa numbers and shit, cash shop too, gear based and stuff that's what MMO is IMO.

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1597

6/26/12 3:15:21 PM#55
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

 

Get over it.

 

You guys have to remember it's not an Elder Scrolls game.

 

It's an MMO based in the Elder Scrolls universe.

 

I think it looks amazing.

 How in the world do you rationalize that? 

It's "not an elder scrolls game"?  Pardon me?  Isn't it called the elder scrolls online? 

So in order to justify the fact that it's nothing like any other elder scrolls game, and more like every other generic themepark MMO on the market, we're just going to tell everyone it's not an elder scrolls game? 

I can only imagine how great it could be if it WAS an elder scrolls game. 

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1597

6/26/12 3:20:58 PM#56
Originally posted by dronfwar
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by KingGator

If you want to play an fps game then go play one, this is an mmorpg, which should play like one. I am starting to feel like this game is going to have some success.  It might be just because if it is good the months of irrational hate threads here are going to be worth the price of admission to borrow a  turn of phrase. :)

 It's exactly this kind of thinking that leads to zero creativety. 

I guess Skyrim is an FPS and not an RPG?  How about oblivion?  Morrowind?  Daggerfall?

Is Meridian 59 not an MMORPG?  Mortal online?  Darkfall?

MMORPG says NOTHING about how combat is resolved, only that it's a roleplaying game that is played online with lots of other people.

what's up with you???

MMO means it has to be a WoW Clone!!!111!!!! and the gameplay must be so easy that the average housewife feels home.

lotsa numbers and shit, cash shop too, gear based and stuff that's what MMO is IMO.

 inorite?

Manet and Monet are two of my idols.  Creative innovation is not bound to the precepts of a single groups preconceptions.  That is something that Matt Firor and many people here will NEVER understand.

  LordRelic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 292

6/26/12 3:28:32 PM#57
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

Could not agree more.  They could keep everything else the way it is, but this is a deal-breaker.

I disagree, everyone knows that TES combat is the worst element of their games.  I love how they are doing the 2 weapon skills, 3 class skills and 1 elite skill in a hotbar based GW2'ish style actiony style combat. 

It may be the worst element of those games (and they said that about Oblivion, not Skyrim), but it is miles better than uninvolved typical MMO hotbar crap.  There is no player skill or involvement.  It is lazy and boring.

Originally posted by Acidon

I don't have a problem with them going with the more standard MMO fare.  All of the lore is there.  I think it will be a fun romp being a MMORPG.

I think I'm going to install Morrowind again.. Liked that more than Oblivion, personally.  Enjoyed modding more with it as well.

I know, going off-topic.

Morrowind is definitely my favorite as well, but Skyrim's combat was fantastic.  Oblivion had its charms but it was, in my opinion, the weakest of the previous three.

Might be boring for you but its more realistic and it gives players the freedom to have multitudes of skill to use.  Now I can swing my 2H BroadSword and use things like Cleave, Mortal Strike, Pummel or what ever style of skill you want.  As opposed to left click, left click, left click and ohh hey heres another left click.....Now that is BORING!

Yea cause 1,2,3..,1,2,3....,1,2,3....,1,2,3....4   is so much more fun .

  dadante666

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/11
Posts: 399

you stop laughing when hear the same joke ,but always cry for the same thing...

6/26/12 3:28:34 PM#58

evryone was alwais talking if we may have an elderscroll online and now the we have it soon now theres troll about it lol the game dont have much info yet  we need to wait more ,and like all is not going to be a game for everyone

  Entinerint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 713

6/26/12 3:33:59 PM#59
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

I got on here and saw that the combat is not twitch based, FPS style right and left mouse click.

You guys making this game just royally f'ed up. I would never buy this game without the FPS style combat. You are screwing up, please change it NOW!

 

Get over it.

 

You guys have to remember it's not an Elder Scrolls game.

 

It's an MMO based in the Elder Scrolls universe.

 

I think it looks amazing.

I lol'd.

"The Elder Scrolls Online" is not an "Elder Scrolls" game.  Okay.  So Batman Begins wasn't a Batman movie?  And The Amazing Spiderman isn't a Spiderman movie?  And SWTOR wasn't a Star Wars game?  And LOTRO wasn't a Lord of the Rings game?  And Age of Conan wasn't a Conan game?

You can twist the wording and scream "spin-off" or "off-shoot" until you're blue in the face, but it does not change the fact that when you put "The Elder Scrolls" in a title it creates expectations of not only lore but gameplay from MILLIONS of players. 

If you would like to see how an Elder Scrolls game that strays from the core mechanics is received, research BattleSpire and Redguard, the two big "mistakes" in Bethesda's history with the franchise.  They strayed from the core mechanics, called them spin-offs, and the games were critical and commercial failures.  When they stick to what makes TES TES, they win every time.

Also, what exactly makes this look "amazing" to you?  Is it the tired, boring and incongruous art-style?  Is it the stale combat and over-done MMO systems that we've seen a bazillion times before?  Oh wait, I know, it's the RvRvR, wow what a revalation!  That hasn't been done since DAOC, except in Planetside, I'm sure that one ten-year-old feature that doesn't make any sense in the universe of TES will save the day!

Oh wait, like people who argue against us naysayers, you don't have enough info to make that judgement yet, now do you?

Originally posted by dadante666

evryone was alwais talking if we may have an elderscroll online and now the we have it soon now theres troll about it lol the game dont have much info yet  we need to wait more ,and like all is not going to be a game for ANYone

Fixed.

No one is trolling, "everyone" was not expecting a TES MMO to be this dull and worthless.  We expect more from, statistically speaking, the largest and most successful WRPG franchise.

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1597

6/26/12 3:45:20 PM#60
Originally posted by dadante666

evryone was alwais talking if we may have an elderscroll online and now the we have it soon now theres troll about it lol the game dont have much info yet  we need to wait more ,and like all is not going to be a game for everyone

 You keep saying that. 

In the mean time Youtube is asking you to do a simple search of elder scrolls online, and then stop posting nonsense.  Game informer would also like it if you would head on over to the ESO information hub and take advantage of the numereous articles available to you, and then stop posting nonsense.

Even spike TV got in on the actiion and would welcome you to visit thier site and watch the E3 exclusive video interview with Paul sage, and then ask you to please not post nonsense.

If you haven't caught on.  I'm saying that it's pretty nonsensicle to say that there isn't enough info on the game, when there factually is lots of information available.

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