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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What justifies a subscription fee in your mind?

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113 posts found
  Yalexy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1061

6/21/12 7:08:06 AM#41

All the points made by the OP are actually things that I'm expecting from every MMO, no matter what type of financial model chosen to begin with.

The reason why I prefer P2P or B2P over F2P is, that a F2P-model with a cashshop is allways against competitive gaming, be it PvP or raiding.

I think the best system is P2P, where you only pay a $5 fee to activate your account. In addition all expansions should be free and allready covered by your $15/month. EvE does it for 9 years allready and it's the only model I'm 100% happy with. Sure even EvE has a cashshop, but aslong as it's only cosmetics I couldn't care less.

So yeah, a model like found in EvE Online is absolutely the best model and I'd wish that there'd be more MMOs with a model like it, including the option to sell gametime for ingame-currency on the auction-house.

  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 557

6/21/12 7:44:36 AM#42
Originally posted by Malcanis

 

What justifies a subscription fee in your mind?

Easy - continued development after release

 

If patches and content aren't being released on at the very least a quarterly basis I see no reason to continue to charge for a product they have no intention on improving

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  dave6660

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2518

"Before I speak, I have something important to say."

6/21/12 8:28:45 AM#43
Originally posted by Malcanis
Originally posted by TheCrow2k
Originally posted by Malcanis

Is merely keeping the server open and spending a buck or two on the bandwidth enough, or do you demand more for your $10-$15 a month?

In my opinion, paying a subscription fee should entitle the MMO customer to expect at minimum the following:

(1) Frequent, regular bug-fixing and exploit-patching

(2) Competent, active GMs

(3) A game that's in a fully working condition to play, and which fufills the promises made by advertising (or at the least, has the reasonable expectation of fulfilling those not currently delivered in the near future)

(4) An active, responsive community team

 

I think paying subscribers should also reasonably expect at least some of:

(5) Access to all the content in the game without further payment

(6) An expectation that the game will continue to be developed and expanded, and for that direction to be communicated

(7) Some level of input or interaction with the Dev team as to the future direction of the game.

(8) Proper game documentation and tutorials

 

What are your thoughts? Which subscription MMOs actually deliver to your expectations for a subscription? Should subbed MMOs which don't deliver go F2P or should they raise their game, so to speak?

 

Game needs to be Massively Multiplayer, not Single Player with co-op and Vs modes.

 

Why? Couldn't an argument be made that paying for access to a gateway that allows you to easily and seamlessly integrate your "massively singleplayer" experience is something that people want, and will pay for and that costs money to provide?

I'm sure there's plenty of suckers who would pay a monthly fee for a single player game.  Let that game companies have at it!

“There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
-- Herman Melville

  rothbard

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/09
Posts: 251

6/21/12 8:40:44 AM#44

I'd gladly pay a sub for a world.  It's the box fee that needs to go, not the sub.   Paying sub = access to world.   Free client.  Does this negate the whole "I want all the 'content' I bought" meme?

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

6/21/12 8:53:02 AM#45

I agree with everything but GMs.  Some level of customer support is always needed, but I feel a minority of players expect far, far too much personal attention and GMs have a terrible cost:benefit ratio.  They are nice, hard-working people, but manually solving issues, policing the rules and issuing events just isn't the way to run a world.

  DSWBeef

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 799

6/21/12 8:55:02 AM#46
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by DSWBeef

The only way to go IMO is with a sub based game. Look at RIFT w/o the sub they wouldnt be able to put out the speed of which they put out content. IMO Rift justifies the SUB with how they are releasing content once every month to month 1/2.

How much content can they possibly release that fast?

The kind of patches and bugfixes that Skyrim does with having only had bought the client itself, maybe?

 

Wanna know what your subs are paying for? Trion's NEXT MMO.

All subbed games are paying for their next investment, only the smallest fraction of it is actually cycled back into the product. Hard to believe so many people actually take up the camp that you need subs to create new content. If it was truly the case, then why do most games charge you for expansions regularly?

Have you even played rift? About every months they release a new patch which either brings new raids, dungeons, world events, pvp features, instant adventures, chronicles, artifacts, and some minor feature improvements.

Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim Dawn
Waiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  Zorgo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2269

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

6/21/12 9:03:26 AM#47
Originally posted by Bama1267
Originally posted by fahadjafar
Originally posted by Malcanis

Is merely keeping the server open and spending a buck or two on the bandwidth enough, or do you demand more for your $10-$15 a month?

In my opinion, paying a subscription fee should entitle the MMO customer to expect at minimum the following:

(1) Frequent, regular bug-fixing and exploit-patching

(2) Competent, active GMs

(3) A game that's in a fully working condition to play, and which fufills the promises made by advertising (or at the least, has the reasonable expectation of fulfilling those not currently delivered in the near future)

(4) An active, responsive community team

 

I think paying subscribers should also reasonably expect at least some of:

(5) Access to all the content in the game without further payment

(6) An expectation that the game will continue to be developed and expanded, and for that direction to be communicated

(7) Some level of input or interaction with the Dev team as to the future direction of the game.

(8) Proper game documentation and tutorials

 

What are your thoughts? Which subscription MMOs actually deliver to your expectations for a subscription? Should subbed MMOs which don't deliver go F2P or should they raise their game, so to speak?

ok let me see, currently in USA average payment for an hr in a job is nearly 6$, i will consider 5$. one month sub of a p2p game is 15$, so that is like the payment for 3hrs time in a job, and u want all of those above u mentioned for 15$ a month. ok fine, but for the reocord at least total of 6 terms in ur condition are always fulfilled by most of the p2p game devs\publishers out in market atm.


 That must be counting illegals, because the minimum wage itself is around 7.50 or so, lol. That and it doesnt count every job that pays more than that. So to strengthen your position, it really only takes about 2 hours or less to be able to pay for a subscription.

What's even funnier is he said in USA 'average' pay and not minimum wage. Sure the economy and jobs are bad right now, but if we, on average, made 6$/hr I think callilng it a  'great depression' would be an understatement.

Subs cost less than 50 cents per day. If you can't afford one soda per day, you probably can't afford the internet. If you can only afford the internet without any expendable cash left over to sub to an mmo - you should probably drop the internet and put a little cash in your pocket.

Just my two cents.

  mufasy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/12
Posts: 10

"Blessed is the mind too small to doubt"

6/21/12 11:21:01 AM#48

niche games should always have subscription, like lets say sandbox mmos, themepark-sandbox mmos and so on. Craptastic Evercrack 2 / WoWz clones should be free to play.

Knowledge is power, guard it well.
FMMOS

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19959

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

6/21/12 12:19:11 PM#49

Well, the OP and several others came up with many good features/services that I guess I should expect for my MMO sub fee, and like Quihiid pointed out, I guess I've been settling for less from most titles for quite some time.

Thing is, I've never begrudged paying a sub fee, not even when I was paying for 5 at one point.  Probably because I only play one game at a time, and nothing else until I'm ready to move on to the next title.

Other folks seem to play multiple titles, single player games, etc and I have no idea where they find the time as it's all I can do to try and keep up with one MMORPG and RL.

If GW2's model works out well, then sure, count me on the bandwagon of the new B2P model, but if some titles release with sub fees I won't be overly upset.

As someone else said, I kind of resent spending money monthly and then being asked to pay expansions.

Also, I think more of the profits of subs should be funding the development of the current title and not the next one on the horizon. (let the investors pay for them).  One gripe I have with CCP is I think too much of EVE's sub fees have gone into WOD and worse, Dust514 development (can't prove it of course) and it's taken some of the shine off of them for me.

 

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22265

6/21/12 12:21:23 PM#50

Nothing .. except may be the biggest best polished game.

F2P is the way to go.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5411

6/21/12 12:22:21 PM#51

If I enjoy the game play I have no problem paying. I fact, I would have no problem paying 2x the standard price if its a game I like to play

everything else is unimportant to me, good games are far to rare to worry about the small stuff

Correlation does not imply causation

  apocoluster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1327

\m/,

6/21/12 12:43:38 PM#52

 

  A game only needs to keep my interest for 31 days to get my sub fee...according to OPs list...then only thing that matters to me is 3..the rest not an issue..as Im pretty sure im going to be on off to another game before day 60 comes by.  Too many good games  on the market these days to worry about finding " The One".  Im happily playing them all.  P2P, B2P, F2P, Freemium means nothing to me..ill get to them all in time.

  Example: The day I bought Tera, I preordered TSW and signed up for MWO's CBT.  Scatterbrained..yah a ilittle.  My biggest complaint about this life is that there isnt enough me to play all the games I want to play :).   I so wish I was Jamie Maddrox at times...

 

 

 

 

 

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  azmundai

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1430

6/21/12 12:47:22 PM#53

games built for longevity, not instant gratification get them out the door sell as many boxes as possible and fix the rest later games. in other words, I probably need to find a new hobby.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  User Deleted
6/21/12 12:57:50 PM#54
Originally posted by Malcanis

Is merely keeping the server open and spending a buck or two on the bandwidth enough, or do you demand more for your $10-$15 a month?

In my opinion, paying a subscription fee should entitle the MMO customer to expect at minimum the following:

(1) Frequent, regular bug-fixing and exploit-patching

(2) Competent, active GMs

(3) A game that's in a fully working condition to play, and which fufills the promises made by advertising (or at the least, has the reasonable expectation of fulfilling those not currently delivered in the near future)

(4) An active, responsive community team

Being avidly  against the older models for mmos and to answer your title question for this post, Absolutely nothing justifies a sub fee, unless its <$10. We've already been shown by Arenanet that subscription models are empty revenue, empty in that developers like Blizzard for example won't use it to actually add non-expansion improvements and content to the games and that it isn't required for server upkeep or transfers. IE Cataclysm was already developed long before the rest of the patches that inserted the other two sections of the cata story were actually released, and now it's just sitting there with no new content until the Panda expansion is released.

I think paying subscribers should also reasonably expect at least some of:

(5) Access to all the content in the game without further payment

(6) An expectation that the game will continue to be developed and expanded, and for that direction to be communicated

(7) Some level of input or interaction with the Dev team as to the future direction of the game.

(8) Proper game documentation and tutorials

Completely agree with all of these 5-8 they should definitely and always move in the direction of what the players want, mainly because we've seen time and time again that devs get too egotistical about their game and think they know better about everything including balance. WOW, SWTOR, AoC.

What are your thoughts? Which subscription MMOs actually deliver to your expectations for a subscription? Should subbed MMOs which don't deliver go F2P or should they raise their game, so to speak?

I Think that the best model for games would be a freemium model that had a lower sub fee then the standard old $15 with a store that sells everything accept gear for characters if the game is a gear treadmill game. The cost should be more along the lines of $8 especially since the economy is the way it is. Even netflix and hulu only cost that amount per month to use their media. The $15 a month thing was a nice starter, it was during a time before the housing crash and the banks destroyed many people's incomes and the $8 would still give the game a nice even stream of revenue this with a store would give the game titles large chunks of revenue in the midst of the steady sub.

And that's all if you wanted to keep a sub, but the F2P models have all shown us time and time again the the sub is no longer necessary nor is it as profitable as the F2P model is because if customers don't like what you are doing, poof there goes a sub. It's why Blizz suddenly added some RP items a couple years back, they lost almost 2 mil at once and decided to listen to their players for a change.

 

Edit: there is only one company that's actually delivered on their promise of fast efficient fun content and that's Trion, the makers of Rift.

Edit 2.0: When i say a store should sell everything i don't mean any other content other then major expansions, being cut off from parts of the world or from dungeons because you aren't buying tiny portions of the game is as uncool as selling end game gear in the store.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22265

6/21/12 12:58:05 PM#55
Originally posted by azmundai

games built for longevity, not instant gratification get them out the door sell as many boxes as possible and fix the rest later games. in other words, I probably need to find a new hobby.

You probably do.

With so many games out there, it is hard to expect a player stick to the same one year after year.

  azrael466

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/08
Posts: 369

6/21/12 1:00:45 PM#56

good content.

devs that listen to the players

compitent customer support

a good community(possibly the most important, F2P MMOs have TERRIBLE communities)

not having to pay for major patches

Playing
Nothing
waiting for
The secret world
Played
WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22265

6/21/12 1:01:16 PM#57

It is not just the amount of money. If I sub to a game, i will feel guilty if i don't play and it is a hassle to sub & unsub all the time.

That is why, except WOW (and i am subbing now only because i am getting D3), i probably will never play another sub-based MMO. There are too many other games (SP & MMOs) that you can get in and out fast without commitment.

Take DCUO. It is fun for a while .. i may even go back later. But having no hassle to manage sub, it is much easier for me to get into the game.

  Paradigm68

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/11
Posts: 882

6/21/12 1:16:01 PM#58

If I enjoy playing the game, it's worth a sub.

  User Deleted
6/21/12 2:04:41 PM#59

A complete game, not one chopped up and parceled out in cash shop items. FREE updates and expansion packs.

This is trend lately to double and triple dip is getting out of hand. This is the reason I have not been playing my TSW closed beta. I just don't have any interest in a game that triple dips. Too many of them do so today.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22265

6/21/12 2:18:59 PM#60
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

This is trend lately to double and triple dip is getting out of hand. This is the reason I have not been playing my TSW closed beta. I just don't have any interest in a game that triple dips. Too many of them do so today.

Not the F2P ones .. those "zero" dip into my wallet.

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