This is just a dry run for Titan.

The people doing these chargebacks should expect a bill. Let me spell it out:

• The TOS states that you don't own ANYTHING in the game. Just a lisence to play, and a lisence to use a particular item.
• It also states that they anything is subject to change, with or without prior notice.
• Not only do Blizzard not even have to announce changes like these, but they did so before releasing the RMAH. It was on the login screen where everyone could see.
• I bet the people making chargebacks explained it in the form of "they purchased an item from Blizzard, which was then changed". Rather than saying it was an auction buying the item from another player where the transaction was facilitated by Blizzard.

• It's rumored that 4 years of D3's development time was spent sorting out all the legalities of the RMAH.
• Blizzard have very good lawyers, and were the first to legally take down a bot company.
• Thousands of people doing this are causing a big loss for the corporate giants.

Gotta love online only for a single player rpg.

Originally posted by leftyZX

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Originally posted by zymurgeist

How the hell are they going to chargeback a auction item? Paypal has already agreed not to. You chargeback paypal and you're in for a fight. If you chargeback a game purchase Blizzard bans all your accounts and refuses to deal with you again.

If I were Blizzard, I'd also be sending them a bill. If they refused to pay, I'd sic a collections agency on them. That'll look really good on their credit reports, eh?

Actually blizzard would need to appeal to the CC company or file suit. I don't know the mass at which this is happening but if a few thousand people chargeback for "bait and switch" then blizzard could see its name on a blacklist.

What makes it interesting is how it'll all unfold, the early damages could really harm blizzard even if they can be fixed or "justly" corrected later.

RMAH went live a few weeks after the IAS nerf was announced, how is this anybody's fault other than the poeple to bought the item on the RMAH? I am not sure what more Blizz could have done other than blocking item with IAS on them from being sold, which I am not sure is even technically possible. They gave everybody ample warning.

Logic is hard on this forum apparently.

You really made a new account for this? I'm not arguing right or wrong here. The damage is going to happen, i'm just curious how it'll play out.

As for logic? what are you talking about. The situation is new for the most part and the scale is very large.

Yes..I actually created a new account to comment on this...is that frowned upon here?

As for logic, im refering to the fact that people are raging bloody murder claiming bait and switch, when it was clearely layed out by Blizz in every possible way (including on the mandatory launcher) before the RMAH was even released...

If you are impacted by this, it is your own fault, there really is no discussion to be had on it.

I've not purchased a single thing from the RMAH, i've profited from it greatly though.

However there is a real discussion for this as it could great impact online gaming as we know it. Things can go alot of ways with this, either swept under the rug or blizzard fights it. If Blizzard really does try to fight this in some form or another, it could garner some unwanted attention to our virtual worlds.

There is nothing for Blizz to fight, this is not the first time a company has changed stat values in an RPG, and it will not be the last...all of which you "accpted" by using the RMAH.

Blizz didnt even have to give a warning about the nerf, but they did...ample...there really is no discussion here.

still blizz known that they going nerf it, but still they launch RMAH instead

there lots of kids lazy enough wont read news and update notes, are they aiming this kids for small extra cash?

So what was Blizzard supposed to do then? Just not launch the AH? Things are ALWAYS going to be changing in games like these, it's part of the goddamn genre FFS you... person.

You know when you go to pet a strange dog, and it growls at you? It's not the poor dog's fault when you persist and get your f*cking hand ripped off, is it? No, it's yours.

Blizzard 'growled' at you with their forum and blog posts. If you ignored them, it's your own f*cking fault.

Forgive my profanity, but it just boggles my mind that people don't understand this.

Originally posted by Adam1902

The people doing these chargebacks should expect a bill. Let me spell it out:

• The TOS states that you don't own ANYTHING in the game. Just a lisence to play, and a lisence to use a particular item.
• It also states that they anything is subject to change, with or without prior notice.
• Not only do Blizzard not even have to announce changes like these, but they did so before releasing the RMAH. It was on the login screen where everyone could see.
• I bet the people making chargebacks explained it in the form of "they purchased an item from Blizzard, which was then changed". Rather than saying it was an auction buying the item from another player where the transaction was facilitated by Blizzard.

These are the obvious points. Now lets look at what happens to Blizzard when you charge back.

Blizzard take £1 and 15% out of the buyer, listing the item. So for a £100 item sale, Blizzard recieve make £16. You are taking £100 off Blizzard. They lose £84.

 

• It's rumored that 4 years of D3's development time was spent sorting out all the legalities of the RMAH.
• Blizzard have very good lawyers, and were the first to legally take down a bot company.
• Thousands of people doing this are causing a big loss for the corporate giants.

Blizzard will get in touch with the CC companies, the CC companies will go "shit, we're sorry" (OR will they!? This could get quite interesting), and Blizzard will send you a bill of whatever you charged back, and you'll get bad credit and lose your RMAH access.

 

I can actually see this catastrophe luring media attention, too.

4yrs into development time into sorting out legalities? lol, doesnt mean shit until it holds up in court. If that is true it just show's me what a sleezy business Blizzard has become. 

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Edit:  I guess being open and honest with your community gets you nothing but hatred, scorn, and chargebacks.

That is the funniest post i have ever seen, open and honest huh with a system based on greedy and designed to give a stream of money on items that don't exist and that could be easily exploited from day one by gold farmers lying in wait for the day it launched. Sorry but no, just no.

And this, my friends, is exactly why we don't want RMT within the game.

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Edit:  I guess being open and honest with your community gets you nothing but hatred, scorn, and chargebacks.

 

That is the funniest post i have ever seen, open and honest huh with a system based on greedy and designed to give a stream of money on items that don't exist and that could be easily exploited from day one by gold farmers lying in wait for the day it launched. Sorry but no, just no.

Point out to me how they were NOT open and honest with the upcoming changes?

Yeah, thought so.

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Edit:  I guess being open and honest with your community gets you nothing but hatred, scorn, and chargebacks.

 

That is the funniest post i have ever seen, open and honest huh with a system based on greedy and designed to give a stream of money on items that don't exist and that could be easily exploited from day one by gold farmers lying in wait for the day it launched. Sorry but no, just no.

Yup.. This.  ^^

The entire game was designed for RMAH long before it was even due to come online.  Makes me sick.  Oh well, another great game series bites the dust.

Sometimes I miss the days of text-only games, where the story was everything, and the artists that created them wanted to tell you the story and let you live it.

I'm babbling and no one is reading this anyway.  Oh well.   I had a minute to spare.  o7

Originally posted by Acidon

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Edit:  I guess being open and honest with your community gets you nothing but hatred, scorn, and chargebacks.

 

That is the funniest post i have ever seen, open and honest huh with a system based on greedy and designed to give a stream of money on items that don't exist and that could be easily exploited from day one by gold farmers lying in wait for the day it launched. Sorry but no, just no.

 

Yup.. This.  ^^

The entire game was designed for RMAH long before it was even due to come online.  Makes me sick.  Oh well, another great game series bites the dust.

Sometimes I miss the days of text-only games, where the story was everything, and the artists that created them wanted to tell you the story and let you live it.

I'm babbling and no one is reading this anyway.  Oh well.   I had a minute to spare.  o7

Ever play "Pyramid" or "Bedlam" ?

Seems games have changed and not necessarily for the better my friend

So then, Blizzard pays the bill and the person that did the chargeback keeps the item anyway.

I think they should ban anyone that does a chargeback. That would stop the behavior pretty quickly. You would lose some customers and it would be a PR nightmare, but I think this is a situation where the behavior just needs to be stopped dead in its tracks.

I'm glad it's not going well for them. I'd rather not see this model repeated any time soon.

Originally posted by Souldrainer
I find it very interesting that Blizzard can have a RMT auction house and still claim that players don't own the items sold there. I really hope some people with good lawyers take them to the cleaners over this...

Latest Blizzard antics bring up an inner rage within me that is hard to contain.  I can't really do anything about it besides get my money back, block charges on annual pass, and never give Blizzard another dime. Will they care? Nope. But, it makes me feel better.

Originally posted by Rednecksith

If we're talking about chargebacks on goods purchased from the RMAH, then I say sic the lawyers on 'em.  It was said by Blizzard LONG before the RMAH even went live that IAS was going to be nerfed. People who bought items with this property did so at their own risk. Also, items/skills/etc. get changed ALL THE TIME in games like these. It's nothing new.

If we're talking about people wanting refunds on the game, well, they had 30 days, which is incredibly generous in the software industry, where most sales are FINAL. If you can't decide if you like a game or not in 30 days, I don't know what to tell you. Even back in the day Electronics Boutique only gave you 15.

Any good lawyer could easily prove that there was absolutely no 'bait and switch'. The customers whining, and the credit card companies siding with them have absolutely no leg to stand on.

And lastly, there is the TOS. While not a binding contract of any sort (legally), it does explain things such as refund policies and whatnot, so folks really can't plead ignorance.

I'm nowhere near the biggest Blizzard fan in the world, and readily admit that D3 has some issues, but these people demanding refunds / reimbursment are just petulant children who are angry they can't faceroll content anymore.

Edit: Blizzard changed the items because it was the most transparent and obvious approach to the problem. I guess being open and honest with your community gets you nothing but hatred, scorn, and chargebacks.

They marketed RMAH as part of d3.  They never said you were required to have a cell phone or purchase an authenticator.  They changed the policy about that requirement so they have sold a product not as intended.  My CC company seems supportive of the disputed charge.

Also, tried to get a hold of blizzard for a refund on the phone without connecting to someone and their phone queue booted me.  Sent an email to sales per the purchase confirmation and never got a reply from them. They are avoiding refunds which I think is good enough for a dispute.

Originally posted by colddog04

So then, Blizzard pays the bill and the person that did the chargeback keeps the item anyway.

 

It is a good question... how are they going to combat this?

 

I think they should ban anyone that does a chargeback. That would stop the behavior pretty quickly. You would lose some customers and it would be a PR nightmare, but I think this is a situation where the behavior just needs to be stopped dead in its tracks.

 

I'm glad it's not going well for them. I'd rather not see this model repeated any time soon.

I think the behavior that needs to be stopped is companies making real money auction houses with virtual goods that they can change on a whim.

Real money for virtual goods that can be changed at anytime.

Whatta Racket

My guess is the following:

1) The credit card companies need to contact Blizzard to get their side

2) Blizzard will show them the EULA the buyers agreed to before using the AH

3) Most CC companies will not let the chargeback go through

4) Everyone asking for chargebacks will be denied future use of the RMAH

The other issue is that players put more money on their BNET account than was needed for the disputed purchases.  That adds a whole new issue.  I do think it's lame that people may have bought items without knowing about the nerf.  I'm not sure I would see it as big of a deal if they kept the stats but implemented diminishing returns.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

My guess is the following:

 

1) The credit card companies need to contact Blizzard to get their side

2) Blizzard will show them the EULA the buyers agreed to before using the AH

3) Most CC companies will not let the chargeback go through

 

The other issue is that players put more money on their BNET account than was needed for the disputed purchases.  That adds a whole new issue.  I do think it's lame that people may have bought items without knowing about the nerf.  I'm not sure I would see it as big of a deal if they kept the stats but implemented diminishing returns.

 

 

 

 

You forgot step 4, where the CC companies laugh and giggle at Blizzard trying to push a EULA on them for virtual goods.

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by Souldrainer
I find it very interesting that Blizzard can have a RMT auction house and still claim that players don't own the items sold there. I really hope some people with good lawyers take them to the cleaners over this...

Latest Blizzard antics bring up an inner rage within me that is hard to contain.  I can't really do anything about it besides get my money back, block charges on annual pass, and never give Blizzard another dime. Will they care? Nope. But, it makes me feel better.

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Originally posted by leftyZX

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Originally posted by zymurgeist

How the hell are they going to chargeback a auction item? Paypal has already agreed not to. You chargeback paypal and you're in for a fight. If you chargeback a game purchase Blizzard bans all your accounts and refuses to deal with you again.

If I were Blizzard, I'd also be sending them a bill. If they refused to pay, I'd sic a collections agency on them. That'll look really good on their credit reports, eh?

Actually blizzard would need to appeal to the CC company or file suit. I don't know the mass at which this is happening but if a few thousand people chargeback for "bait and switch" then blizzard could see its name on a blacklist.

What makes it interesting is how it'll all unfold, the early damages could really harm blizzard even if they can be fixed or "justly" corrected later.

RMAH went live a few weeks after the IAS nerf was announced, how is this anybody's fault other than the poeple to bought the item on the RMAH? I am not sure what more Blizz could have done other than blocking item with IAS on them from being sold, which I am not sure is even technically possible. They gave everybody ample warning.

Logic is hard on this forum apparently.

You really made a new account for this? I'm not arguing right or wrong here. The damage is going to happen, i'm just curious how it'll play out.

As for logic? what are you talking about. The situation is new for the most part and the scale is very large.

Yes..I actually created a new account to comment on this...is that frowned upon here?

As for logic, im refering to the fact that people are raging bloody murder claiming bait and switch, when it was clearely layed out by Blizz in every possible way (including on the mandatory launcher) before the RMAH was even released...

If you are impacted by this, it is your own fault, there really is no discussion to be had on it.

I've not purchased a single thing from the RMAH, i've profited from it greatly though.

However there is a real discussion for this as it could great impact online gaming as we know it. Things can go alot of ways with this, either swept under the rug or blizzard fights it. If Blizzard really does try to fight this in some form or another, it could garner some unwanted attention to our virtual worlds.

There is nothing for Blizz to fight, this is not the first time a company has changed stat values in an RPG, and it will not be the last...all of which you "accpted" by using the RMAH.

Blizz didnt even have to give a warning about the nerf, but they did...ample...there really is no discussion here.

still blizz known that they going nerf it, but still they launch RMAH instead

there lots of kids lazy enough wont read news and update notes, are they aiming this kids for small extra cash?

So what was Blizzard supposed to do then? Just not launch the AH? Things are ALWAYS going to be changing in games like these, it's part of the goddamn genre FFS you... person.

You know when you go to pet a strange dog, and it growls at you? It's not the poor dog's fault when you persist and get your f*cking hand ripped off, is it? No, it's yours.

Blizzard 'growled' at you with their forum and blog posts. If you ignored them, it's your own f*cking fault.

Forgive my profanity, but it just boggles my mind that people don't understand this.

im already 2 step a head of u, i havent buy d game yet bcos i hearing all this server trouble, hack, RMAH, etc etc

like parent always said "dont pet a strange dog if u dont know who belongs to", so......im not that stupid buying defect product, im keep waiting till this game perfectly playable and enjoyable

i just want to know that blizz could nerf item first then launch RMAH do they? instead d opposite

Seriously, who didn't see this coming or wasn't told this was coming.

I'm not going to argue legality of a ToS/EULA/etc or how it affects pre-existing law.  With enough money and time, it's been proven time and time again that someone will find a loophole and someone will fight that loophole with another loophole.  What gets me is, what will Blizzard do.  They are the big target of the entire industry.  Their Activision brothers and their actions aren't well thought of as is.  No matter how you look at it.  No matter how it plays out.  This is a PR nightmare that will dwarf previuos WoW fiascos.  The sheer number of articles and debates over this will be huge.  Opportunistic people will be lying in wait for the outcome and the possibilities that follow.  And... this will not be the last problem with the RMAH.  The box is open.