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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Beta Weekend Event Reviews & Impressions (Archived)  » ArenaNet's Grand Illusion

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91 posts found
  Scelestic

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/08
Posts: 12

6/19/12 12:37:08 AM#21
Originally posted by nazgo

I do agree with his that this game should not be called Guild Wars, as its not sequel in any way but lorewise.

^ Which.. makes it a sequel in the definition of the word.. You don't make a sequel that has NOTHING to do with the first game.. the entire point of a Sequel is to continue or add onto a story, and usually improve upon core mechanics of such.

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

6/19/12 12:38:36 AM#22
Originally posted by Mephster

 

Well let me say that I been a fan of Guild Wars for 5+ years and I truly loved the franchise until I got my hands on Guild Wars 2. For those who are going to continue with Guild Wars 2 then good for you but for me and others our journey ends here and here is why….
 
Dynamic Events – They are nothing more than Wow fedex quests that have been done in a more interactive way. Sure , the way ArenaNet designed them it is a little better than just clicking on the npc and reading a wall of text to go kill 10 of something. In reality though this is not new. It is still a go kill 10 of something then come back for your reward. It is the same thing people have been doing since WoW except they make you do a little dance before go killing something in events. This is only an illusion created by ArenaNet to make it seem it is different but it isn’t which I found to be a major disappointment in the beta weekends.  Not only is this quest system the same since WoW there is no end game(which ofcourse is a major fail)  in Guild wars 2 which means from level  1 to level 80 all you will be doing is go kill x amount of mobs then go collect your reward.  They even have escort quests as events, I mean how original is that, escort quests ? I wonder where those ideas came from but yet all this time they been trying to sell to everyone that dynamic events are revolutionary but we found out when we got into the weekend events they aren’t. it is only an illusion.

Dynamic Events aren't touted "new" because they are an invention. They're touted new for being fresh as no other game has implemented public quests like they did. You just fell victim to sensationalism.

The main point of the DE's is that you wander around and simply stumble onto one. There's no speaking to an NPC to start a quest (although there may be DE's that would kick off after speaking to someone), go to the distant location to kill a number of creatures that you find prancing around, minding their own business, then travel the same mile just to turn in your quest. That inconvenience has been put out. By any chance, have you confused DE's with the hearts quest? You mentioned "coming back for your reward", which are essentially the hearts quests.

The escort quests as dynamic events are made different in the sense that you no longer have to wait for the escortee to respawn while he's being escorted by someone else. You just jump right in and join the escort task. Also, I wonder if you'd be happier if there were zero escort events in the game. I can imagine more people will find that wierd, as escort/protect quests are one of the few jobs mercenaries naturally take.

Also I can't recall if ANet claimed their DE's revolutionary but I've heard it first, and more often, on this site.

  zipzap

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/03/06
Posts: 124

6/19/12 12:38:37 AM#23
Originally posted by Loke666

I played GW for 5+ years and still like GW2 but I guess taste differs...

I am not surprised that some GW players hoped that GW2 would be closer to the first game though. On the plus side will GW be open as long as there are players for you.

totally agree with you... i just wish they would bring back some of the old pvp.

WTB HA and GvG :D

  StrixMaxima

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/09
Posts: 890

6/19/12 12:39:05 AM#24
Originally posted by comradedoug

 

For example, I told a friend that the dungeons wont please everyone specifically hardcore dungeon runners for more than a month of two. He actually said "the dungeons will please everyone for the forseeable future."

 

Literally, thats impossible. People really do think Guild Wars 2 is the rapture, after so many illustrations that such raptures in game design do not happen.

The issue here is not about the game fans. It is because your friend is delusional and unreasonable.

Do not use the behaviour of a few to categorize the many.

  nazgo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/09
Posts: 4

6/19/12 12:42:08 AM#25
Originally posted by Gunner2121
Originally posted by nazgo

I do agree with his that this game should not be called Guild Wars, as its not sequel in any way but lorewise.

^ Which.. makes it a sequel in the definition of the word.. You don't make a sequel that has NOTHING to do with the first game.. the entire point of a Sequel is to continue or add onto a story, and usually improve upon core mechanics of such.

 

They dont call WoW, Warcraft 4 for a reason. Only thing those two games share is lore

  comradedoug

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/08
Posts: 31

6/19/12 12:43:27 AM#26
Originally posted by KhinRunite

The main point of the DE's is that you wander around and simply stumble onto one. There's no speaking to an NPC to start a quest (although there may be DE's that would kick off after speaking to someone), go to the distant location to kill a number of creatures that you find prancing around, minding their own business, then travel the same mile just to turn in your quest. 

Think the author is questioning how that is in any way an improvement. 

  DJJazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2074

6/19/12 12:44:37 AM#27

Well sorry that you didn't like it OP. I had a lot of fun in the betas and I plan on having loads of fun when the game releases. Hopefully you can find a game that you like.

  comradedoug

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/08
Posts: 31

6/19/12 12:44:47 AM#28
Originally posted by StrixMaxima
Originally posted by comradedoug

 

For example, I told a friend that the dungeons wont please everyone specifically hardcore dungeon runners for more than a month of two. He actually said "the dungeons will please everyone for the forseeable future."

 

Literally, thats impossible. People really do think Guild Wars 2 is the rapture, after so many illustrations that such raptures in game design do not happen.

The issue here is not about the game fans. It is because your friend is delusional and unreasonable.

Do not use the behaviour of a few to categorize the many.

This whole thread is full of similiar people, defending every aspect of GW2 as if it was their identity. You can like a game and dislike a feature. I for one found the dynamic events in the human start region (I got to about level 20) to be utterly and soul-crushingly boring. Doesn't mean I dont like GW2, just means that part of it is in no way an improvement.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1341

6/19/12 12:46:30 AM#29
Originally posted by comradedoug

This whole thread is full of similiar people, defending every aspect of GW2 as if it was their identity. You can like a game and dislike a feature. I for one found the dynamic events in the human start region (I got to about level 20) to be utterly and soul-crushingly boring. Doesn't mean I dont like GW2, just means that part of it is in no way an improvement.

You are obviously a hater and a noob.

  chryses

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1438

6/19/12 12:46:58 AM#30

I think underlining all of this is that you have only played the Beta and they still have 'under construction' signs all over the dialogue cut scenes.  So all of your comments need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Maybe it isn't for you but your argument against GW2 is valid for every single game on the market place.

All games on all platforms have a common formula.  How they work with that formula is how successful the game will be.

Not going into specifics, I have found GW2 quite refreshing on a lot of elements.  It doesn't come across so grindy as you don't have to speak to X number of NPC's to get X number of kill 10 rat missions.

Besides all of that.  There is no sub and the game will definitely provide amazing value for money compared to any MMO out there.

 

  Vutar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/09
Posts: 753

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. -George Santayana

6/19/12 12:47:49 AM#31
Originally posted by Mephster

 

Well let me say that I been a fan of Guild Wars for 5+ years and I truly loved the franchise until I got my hands on Guild Wars 2. For those who are going to continue with Guild Wars 2 then good for you but for me and others our journey ends here and here is why….
 
Dynamic Events – They are nothing more than Wow fedex quests that have been done in a more interactive way. Sure , the way ArenaNet designed them it is a little better than just clicking on the npc and reading a wall of text to go kill 10 of something. In reality though this is not new. It is still a go kill 10 of something then come back for your reward. It is the same thing people have been doing since WoW except they make you do a little dance before go killing something in events. This is only an illusion created by ArenaNet to make it seem it is different but it isn’t which I found to be a major disappointment in the beta weekends.  Not only is this quest system the same since WoW there is no end game(which ofcourse is a major fail)  in Guild wars 2 which means from level  1 to level 80 all you will be doing is go kill x amount of mobs then go collect your reward.  They even have escort quests as events, I mean how original is that, escort quests ? I wonder where those ideas came from but yet all this time they been trying to sell to everyone that dynamic events are revolutionary but we found out when we got into the weekend events they aren’t. it is only an illusion.
 
Personal Stories – Tried them all in the events and I must say all of them are boring. I felt like I was 2 years old again with my mom reading me a story from a book.  Every minute I would get another page of painted characters moving their lips but yet the words and the motion of their lips were not in sync at all. The character in the cutscenes seemed like lifeless dolls with only the lips moving. I was really disappointed big time with this.
 
Combat –  It is console gameplay shoved onto the pc. The dodge and roll mechanic fails on the pc. I felt as if I should be plugging my 360 controller in so that the combat would atleast make sense. I think the worst part is that they expect everyone to constantly keep swapping weapons just so you get more skills. I’m sorry but for 5+ years Guild Wars players know only 1 way to play Guild Wars and now ArenaNet expect us to just learn the new way and accept it. Well I for one hate having to keep swapping on a 2 min basis just so that I can experience more skills. I feel players will not completely adapt to it on the long term.
 
Dungeons – They will get old really quick, there is only something like 5 of them throughout the entire game but with several paths in each one. Ok who really cares about the several paths because it is still the same dungeon you will be running over and over until you finally get bored with it. We have been doing dungeons since Everquest and Wow, this is no different. The first few times might be fun but when that shiny wears off players will be eagerly looking for a better dungeon experience.
 
WvW – The wvw battles will fail hard, yes there are steps you need to do before taking each Keep but the combat is nothing more than giant zerg battles. With so many people zerging from one spot to the next you don’t even feel like you are making a difference in the fight.
 
Standard  PvP – Nothing more than WoW battlegrounds except you have less people running around, zerging from one spot to the next to capture the points. Back in the good days of Guild Wars it was 8v8 and special tactics was needed to win. PvP as a group meant something to guilds and they took pride in it. It seems they took alliance battles, made them smaller and tacked on the name pvp to it. I remember back in the day where pvp players would shun alliance battles as real pvp but now ArenaNet turned alliance battles into standard pvp. This is  just god awful ideas ArenaNet came up with for pvp.
 
I think that is about it. As you can clearly see, the ideas for Guild Wars 2 are nothing new. All they are is old ideas with a tiny twist to it to make you think it is different and new. Don’t be fooled by the grand illusion ArenaNet has flashed before your eyes because if you do fall for it, well don’t coming crying back on the forums less than 6 months from now saying you got bored and complaining about game design. We told you so.

 

This thread would have been more accurate if the title was "Mephster's Grand Illusion."

 

In case anyone thinks of taking this guy seriously, be advised he has been trolling the game for weeks now.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7191

6/19/12 12:48:10 AM#32

I share OP feelings, well they are concerns for me. 3 dungeons really? Are the DEs that good? I just don't think GW2 was designed to be a long time mmo. 3 dungeons?! I thought there were more than that. I hear people saying "we don't like rading." Do they not like dugeons too? How come no one is raising a stink about this?

 

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Kykyryz-a

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/10
Posts: 114

6/19/12 12:48:29 AM#33

Useless rewiev

Dynamic events= you dont need to even kill anythg just be in area   So your  "its wow but...."  showing just you are  kinda cant understand a thing.

Personal stories --- "painted characters"  well what you expect from a game? for them to become alive and perform a lap dance for you? sure they  stand and talk.   Its  quest it self not pre talking what makes it good/ If Quest is asking to decide for player to kill or not his/her own dad  well i dont care how  lifeless "dolls" are its the choice which is giving life for all of it.

 

Combat = same if you cant play doesnt mean its bad. maybe it will sound strange but  why player must have 40+skill  he will only use 5 of them regulary and other 5 in special ocasions.  so if you just want to have 6 tabs of useless skills  sure its not the game for you.

 

Dungeons = cant say anythg as i feel like you havent been in any. but its a MMO   its always SAME again and again and again... its  about party and ppl.  you Cant  have all new all the time, well maybe you can if it will be game with 1000$  sub and army or programmers who will give  new inst every 2 days. 

 

WvWvW =  its personal view  i can accept it as not every1 loves  huge scale pvp.  but its a GUILD wars. GUILD wars mean  GUILD wars not  SINGLE wars.  its a tactic your guild will choose will matter not what you as 1 player will do.

PvP = also personal  but  for me they just gave ppl who doesnt like WvW  some place to practice their  1on 1  Zerging  Owning etc.  if they doesnt feel like  they contribute in WvW

At the end... Its a game you cant reinvent Wheel after its already been invented.  Sure its all same old thing  Character  Axe buttons  mobs.  "All they are is old ideas with a tiny twist to it" New twist and details  is what matters at the end.    Same as saying WoW was somethg completely new, after first year it just started to adopt idea from all other MMOs around.  

 

  DJJazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2074

6/19/12 12:49:14 AM#34

3 dungeons? There are 8 dungeons.

  Vutar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/09
Posts: 753

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. -George Santayana

6/19/12 12:50:32 AM#35
Originally posted by bcbully

I share OP feelings, well they are concerns for me. 3 dungeons really? Are the DEs that good? I just don't think GW2 was designed to be a long time mmo. 3 dungeons?! I thought there were more than that. I hear people saying "we don't like rading." Do they not like dugeons too? How come no one is raising a stink about this?

 

 

 

 

This guy posted in a thread on TSW that he pre-ordered that game because of its combat...

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5070516/Poll-Will-you-preorder.html#5070516

  AIMonster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2016

6/19/12 12:51:59 AM#36
Originally posted by Mephster

 

Well let me say that I been a fan of Guild Wars for 5+ years and I truly loved the franchise until I got my hands on Guild Wars 2. For those who are going to continue with Guild Wars 2 then good for you but for me and others our journey ends here and here is why….
 
Dynamic Events – They are nothing more than Wow fedex quests that have been done in a more interactive way. Sure , the way ArenaNet designed them it is a little better than just clicking on the npc and reading a wall of text to go kill 10 of something. In reality though this is not new. It is still a go kill 10 of something then come back for your reward. It is the same thing people have been doing since WoW except they make you do a little dance before go killing something in events. This is only an illusion created by ArenaNet to make it seem it is different but it isn’t which I found to be a major disappointment in the beta weekends.  Not only is this quest system the same since WoW there is no end game(which ofcourse is a major fail)  in Guild wars 2 which means from level  1 to level 80 all you will be doing is go kill x amount of mobs then go collect your reward.  They even have escort quests as events, I mean how original is that, escort quests ? I wonder where those ideas came from but yet all this time they been trying to sell to everyone that dynamic events are revolutionary but we found out when we got into the weekend events they aren’t. it is only an illusion.
 
Must be a very good illusion, considering I can't play quest hub MMOs anymore.  DEs are a huge step up.  I don't understand how you can label it a fedex quest.  You obviously don't understand the term.  There are no fedex style dynamic events (deliver X to point Y).  Consider the advantages of the dynamic event systems:
- Event failures and wins have an effect on the world.  Sure, other MMOs can do with phasing, but that's not actually effecting the world around you, just your own personal instance of the world.
- Causes players to naturally group with one another.
- Doesn't cause issues with players not being on the same "part" of a quest or meeting prerequisites.
- Allows for truely epic events.
 
Personal Stories – Tried them all in the events and I must say all of them are boring. I felt like I was 2 years old again with my mom reading me a story from a book.  Every minute I would get another page of painted characters moving their lips but yet the words and the motion of their lips were not in sync at all. The character in the cutscenes seemed like lifeless dolls with only the lips moving. I was really disappointed big time with this.
 
They tend to vary based on how well done they are.  It's one aspect of Guild Wars 2 I don't like, but it seems like it's completely optional anyway and the rewards have been rather weak so far.
 
Combat –  It is console gameplay shoved onto the pc. The dodge and roll mechanic fails on the pc. I felt as if I should be plugging my 360 controller in so that the combat would atleast make sense. I think the worst part is that they expect everyone to constantly keep swapping weapons just so you get more skills. I’m sorry but for 5+ years Guild Wars players know only 1 way to play Guild Wars and now ArenaNet expect us to just learn the new way and accept it. Well I for one hate having to keep swapping on a 2 min basis just so that I can experience more skills. I feel players will not completely adapt to it on the long term.
 
God forbid they did away for the absolutely BORING MMORPG stand there and autoattack combat.  I also have a hard time playing any older MMOs for this reason too.  The combat just feels bad in other MMOs to me, where Guild Wars 2 feels extremely statisfying and rewards player skill not gear.
 
Dungeons – They will get old really quick, there is only something like 5 of them throughout the entire game but with several paths in each one. Ok who really cares about the several paths because it is still the same dungeon you will be running over and over until you finally get bored with it. We have been doing dungeons since Everquest and Wow, this is no different. The first few times might be fun but when that shiny wears off players will be eagerly looking for a better dungeon experience.
 
So what if it wears off?  Guild Wars 2 isn't about grinding the same thing over and over again (unlike say Guild Wars).  It's content players can do, you don't have to grind them unless you want the optional (mostly for looks) dungeon sets.  Is content a bad thing now?
 
WvW – The wvw battles will fail hard, yes there are steps you need to do before taking each Keep but the combat is nothing more than giant zerg battles. With so many people zerging from one spot to the next you don’t even feel like you are making a difference in the fight.
 
We have videos of us holding a supply camp for 30 minutes with 4 people against a zerg of 40+.  We also killed over 10 people with a team of 5 against a zerg of 30ish people without use of seige weapons.  To say the WvWvW battles are all zerging back and forth simply means you didn't play WvWvW correctly.
 
Standard  PvP – Nothing more than WoW battlegrounds except you have less people running around, zerging from one spot to the next to capture the points. Back in the good days of Guild Wars it was 8v8 and special tactics was needed to win. PvP as a group meant something to guilds and they took pride in it. It seems they took alliance battles, made them smaller and tacked on the name pvp to it. I remember back in the day where pvp players would shun alliance battles as real pvp but now ArenaNet turned alliance battles into standard pvp. This is  just god awful ideas ArenaNet came up with for pvp.
 
The maps are nothing special, but the actual skill involved in PvP is way more involved due to the pace and flow of combat.  It's a small improvement to WoW battlegrounds at best.  As far as Guild Wars PvP goes we all know it's mostly about what builds you bring and how many overpowered skills you are carrying at one time. 
 
I think that is about it. As you can clearly see, the ideas for Guild Wars 2 are nothing new. All they are is old ideas with a tiny twist to it to make you think it is different and new. Don’t be fooled by the grand illusion ArenaNet has flashed before your eyes because if you do fall for it, well don’t coming crying back on the forums less than 6 months from now saying you got bored and complaining about game design. We told you so.
 
It's not revolutionary so much as evolutionary.  There are plenty of small things that are revolutionary that improve the gameplay experience, but Guild Wars 2 mostly benefits from doing things BETTER than previous MMOs.  I don't think they claimed otherwise.

Replies in yellow above.  TL:DR version;  I completely disagree with you.  For one I hate Guild Wars with a passion (me and a guildmate are currently grinding out HoM rewards, I'm 27 out of the 30 points I need and literally need 50 platinum to finish, but having a hard time bringing myself to farm it since we both find the game so damn tedious and boring.  If you want something more like Guild Wars, play Guild Wars, but most of us have been looking a game like Guild Wars 2 to come for a long time now.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7191

6/19/12 12:53:16 AM#37
Originally posted by Vutar
Originally posted by bcbully

I share OP feelings, well they are concerns for me. 3 dungeons really? Are the DEs that good? I just don't think GW2 was designed to be a long time mmo. 3 dungeons?! I thought there were more than that. I hear people saying "we don't like rading." Do they not like dugeons too? How come no one is raising a stink about this?

 

 

 

 

This guy posted in a thread on TSW that he pre-ordered that game because of its combat...

I did. As a pvpr no game gives me 1/2 as many options as TSW. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  StrixMaxima

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/09
Posts: 890

6/19/12 12:53:16 AM#38
Originally posted by comradedoug

This whole thread is full of similiar people, defending every aspect of GW2 as if it was their identity. You can like a game and dislike a feature. I for one found the dynamic events in the human start region (I got to about level 20) to be utterly and soul-crushingly boring. Doesn't mean I dont like GW2, just means that part of it is in no way an improvement.

Exactly. And doing so, like others did, you just contradicted yourself.

We are not all rabid fanbois. Calling all fans 'fanbois' is as stupid as calling all critics 'haters'.

  Vutar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/09
Posts: 753

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. -George Santayana

6/19/12 12:56:11 AM#39
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Vutar
Originally posted by bcbully

I share OP feelings, well they are concerns for me. 3 dungeons really? Are the DEs that good? I just don't think GW2 was designed to be a long time mmo. 3 dungeons?! I thought there were more than that. I hear people saying "we don't like rading." Do they not like dugeons too? How come no one is raising a stink about this?

 

 

 

 

This guy posted in a thread on TSW that he pre-ordered that game because of its combat...

I did. As a pvpr no game gives me 1/2 as many options as TSW. 

 

NP, you can have that opinion. I'm certainly not stopping you. However people should know that is the opinion you hold when coming here to bash GW2. The majority of people I have seen hold the number one problem with TSW as being the combat...

  Trionicus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 488

6/19/12 12:56:32 AM#40

@OP

I've only watched videos of GW2, and I'm not a fan of a dodge button but is there a chance you're overreacting?

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