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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How Rift beat SWTOR

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144 posts found
  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/15/12 1:07:26 PM#121
Originally posted by rdrakken
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by rdrakken

 As do I and I do NOT like Rift at all. Rift is an MMO, SWTOR is a SRPG with forced online multi-player, its lacking in far too many MMO gameplay aspects to be called an MMO.

 

This makes no sense. If TOR isn't an MMO, then other MMO's like WoW and LotrO and EQ2 etc aren't MMO's either. TOR has all the regular MMO features that those other ones have too, and even more. If you don't enjoy them, that's another matter, but they're still there, for people to enjoy them.

 

People on this site often make no sense at all, no logic, everything black&white, wow...

 This makes no sense...which is why you are comparing a new game with little content to games that have been out for over 5 years with massive amounts of content and are not naming anything specifically. If you enjoy the game, thats another matter, but they're still not the same, for people that dont enjoy it.

People on this site often make no sense at all, no logic, everything black&white, wow...

SWTOR has zero RPing items, doesnt even provide the ability to SIT on a seat. Has generic crafting with no depth, no community driven economy, every aspect of the game is instanced and only a few servers have that thing that MMOs have called a...what is it again...oh yeah, a community. Once the main story is done you have a choice between a few PvP "games" that are instanced and a few small areas on a couple of planets to play in and....wait for it...a few flashpoints. A few dailies to do on the final planet does not an end game make.

endgame in SWTOR = a few dailies, a few PvP instances and a few flashpoints.

OMG it has everything all other MMOs ever made has...no really...those 3 MMOs you named with massive amounts of things to do in every MMO aspect you can think of offer NOTHING SWTOR also offers.

You are living in a dream world. Just because you like the little SWTOR gives, doesnt mean you should blinding defend it against games that offer far far far far far more....because you...wont...be getting it, Bioware has proven it with their interviews over the last few weeks...SWTOR in their eyes is not lacking in variety of gameplay and they only intend to extend the class storyline and add a few flashpoints and PvP isntances.

So, you enjoy the game...great, no need to lie and try to make the game sound remotely close to what other MMOs are offering. Unlimited real world PvP, the RP part of RPG, variety of endgame, a decent economy, a crafting system that isnt out of the 90s...and completely lacking in moronic ideas like rewarding RPing items for group farming social points.

 

Whatever, pal. Check wikipedia, check sites like this, check other gaming sites, it's obvious that your narrow, subjective view of what an MMORPG is, is nowhere near what the rest of the whole damn world regards as an MMORPG, yet YOU are trying to sell ME your personalised ideal of what an MMORPG is?!? In contrast of what the rest of the world sees as MMORPG's or not??

Seriously, you're killing me, I almost spilt my cup when I read it. Look, your ideals and dream vision of what an MMORPG should be like and feel like (for you) is cute and all that, but let's look at things objectively and rationally, shall we, and keep facts like facts and definitions like how the rest of the world or at least the vast majority of the world regards them. TOR is an MMORPG, everyone not on a soapbox and on an anti-TOR campaign can acknowledge what the rest of the world already knows, namely that TOR is an MMORPG.

Hey, if TOR ain't an MMORPG of the type you like, if you even hate and despise TOR and the EA/BW people for making it, cool, I'm fine with that. Not every MMORPG is for everyone. But let's stick to reality and standard definitions that the rest of the world uses and can live with, shall we.


Oh, and btw, LotrO DOESN'T have unlimited world PvP (lol), neither had EQ2, and crafting in MMO's like WoW and LotrO was as meaningless and base as in TOR, with even less to it in terms of mechanics and gameplay. I could go on, but basically it comes down to that each MMO has its own strong points and weak points, that doesn't make an MMO any less being an MMO, it makes it simply 1 MMO that you like and another that you dislike or even hate -_-
  rdrakken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

6/15/12 3:03:43 PM#122
Originally posted by smh_alot
Whatever, pal. Check wikipedia, check sites like this, check other gaming sites, it's obvious that your narrow, subjective view of what an MMORPG is, is nowhere near what the rest of the whole damn world regards as an MMORPG, yet YOU are trying to sell ME your personalised ideal of what an MMORPG is?!? In contrast of what the rest of the world sees as MMORPG's or not??

 

Seriously, you're killing me

 Whatever, pal. Check wikipedia, check sites like this, check other gaming sites, it's obvious that your narrow, subjective view of what an MMORPG is, is nowhere near what the rest of the whole damn world regards as an MMORPG, yet YOU are trying to sell EVERYONE your personalised ideal of what an MMORPG is?!? In contrast of what the rest of the world sees as MMORPGs or not??

Seriously you're killing me.

Every person that has ever played EQ, EQ2, AC1, SWG, AO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO and a half dozen other MMORPGs are laughing at you for comparing SWTORs depth to that of other games.

Seriously, you're killing us...hell, you're killing the million plus people that quit SWTOR for how craptastic it is.

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/15/12 3:13:49 PM#123
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by kevjards
Originally posted by Z3R01

 

Trion created an endgame that wouldn't be completely devoured in two weeks.

 

well seen has your a SWTOR  fan..perhaps you would enlighten everyone has to what SWTOR  has to offer at endgame..being that there is nothing heroic about 20+ peeps bashing one mob?

It offers much, much less than RIFT and yes it is heroic to take down hard bosses with 20 players.

Its called endgame raiding and its the endgame of choice for the majority of the MMO market.

SWTOR releasing with two raids and failing proves this.

 

Edit: Don't get all frazzled because im pointing out the obvious. SWTOR is a failed game because it lacks a legit endgame.

You don't see Trion PR saying RIFT didnt catch on and they will be moving their focus away from it did you? EA certainly did that and we all read it!!!!!

TRION releases new content all the time, Even after they reduced servers by 50% they still gave their dedicated players content and events. What is EA doing? Running for the hills! This my friends is a fact.

Scott Hartsman did the same with EQ2....kept kicking content out. It is the way to fix any PVE game that folks think is "lacking" for content.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  pierth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1515

6/15/12 3:18:20 PM#124


Originally posted by rdrakken

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Wicoa Trion continue to develop rift faster and harder than any other company in the industry (afaik) I dont play rift but by god do those boys and girls know how to churn out the patches.
this Trion is a great role model for how content patches should be cranked out
 I completely agree as well.
 As do I and I do NOT like Rift at all. Rift is an MMO, SWTOR is a SRPG with forced online multi-player, its lacking in far too many MMO gameplay aspects to be called an MMO.

I agree with all of the above, while I quit Rift long ago because it catered to a crowd that I wasn't a part of I can't think of any AAA devs that do more for their players than Trion. I don't begrudge those players that enjoy SWTOR but Bioware under the rule of EA is absolute shit. EA almost makes $OE look good.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/15/12 3:18:30 PM#125
Originally posted by rdrakken

Seriously you're killing me.

Every person that has ever played EQ, EQ2, AC1, SWG, AO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO and a half dozen other MMORPGs are laughing at you for comparing SWTORs depth to that of other games.

Seriously, you're killing us...hell, you're killing the million plus people that quit SWTOR for how craptastic it is.

 

Seriously you're killing me.

Every game magazine, every MMO site, every gaming professional, every person that has ever played EQ, EQ2, AC1, SWG, AO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO and a half dozen other MMORPGs are laughing at you for saying that TOR isn't an MMORPG.

Seriously, you're killing us...hell, you're killing the millions of people that have played themepark MMO's including TOR for saying that they haven't played MMORPG's all this time. Every rational, objective person realises what the world considers an MMORPG and not, what's a shooter and not. If you find an MMO 'craptastic', it's still an MMORPG, even if it doesn't feel like what you think an MMORPG must be. But hey, wikipedia, all these MMO sites and gaming sites, the whole gaming industry must be liars too with what they see as MMORPG, right?

  pierth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1515

6/15/12 3:24:38 PM#126


Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by rdrakken

Seriously you're killing me.

Every person that has ever played EQ, EQ2, AC1, SWG, AO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO and a half dozen other MMORPGs are laughing at you for comparing SWTORs depth to that of other games.

Seriously, you're killing us...hell, you're killing the million plus people that quit SWTOR for how craptastic it is.



 
Seriously you're killing me.

Every game magazine, every MMO site, every gaming professional, every person that has ever played EQ, EQ2, AC1, SWG, AO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO and a half dozen other MMORPGs are laughing at you for saying that TOR isn't an MMORPG.

Seriously, you're killing us...hell, you're killing the millions of people that have payed themepark MMO's including TOR for saying that they haven't played MMORPG's all this time. Every rational, objective person realises what the world considers an MMORPG and not, what's a shooter and not. If you find an MMO 'craptastic', it's still an MMORPG, even if it doesn't feel like what you think an MMORPG must be. But hey, wikipedia, all these MMO sites and gaming sites, the whole gaming industry must be liars too with what they see as MMORPG, right?


But TOR is just a massively single player game with optional multiplayer- like D3 but without as much depth and far less of a disgrace as the third part of a trilogy.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/15/12 3:30:10 PM#127
Originally posted by pierth


Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by rdrakken

Seriously you're killing me.

Every person that has ever played EQ, EQ2, AC1, SWG, AO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO and a half dozen other MMORPGs are laughing at you for comparing SWTORs depth to that of other games.

Seriously, you're killing us...hell, you're killing the million plus people that quit SWTOR for how craptastic it is.



 
Seriously you're killing me.

Every game magazine, every MMO site, every gaming professional, every person that has ever played EQ, EQ2, AC1, SWG, AO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO and a half dozen other MMORPGs are laughing at you for saying that TOR isn't an MMORPG.

Seriously, you're killing us...hell, you're killing the millions of people that have payed themepark MMO's including TOR for saying that they haven't played MMORPG's all this time. Every rational, objective person realises what the world considers an MMORPG and not, what's a shooter and not. If you find an MMO 'craptastic', it's still an MMORPG, even if it doesn't feel like what you think an MMORPG must be. But hey, wikipedia, all these MMO sites and gaming sites, the whole gaming industry must be liars too with what they see as MMORPG, right?


But TOR is just a massively single player game with optional multiplayer- like D3 but without as much depth and far less of a disgrace as the third part of a trilogy.

 

Nope. TOR is an MMORPG, try to redefine MMORPG's to only those that you like to play all you want, but TOR and all other themepark MMO's that other people think aren't MMORPG's either, are still MMORPG's and regarded as such by everyone who can be objective and rational about it, and accept what the de facto standard is -_-

Kinda lame and childish, this constant redefining of the MMORPG genre by those who don't like a number of games in it. What are we, 11 years old here? Grow up, be honest and just say 'it's not an MMORPG of the type I like' or 'it's not what I think MMORPG's should be', living in denial what the rest of the gaming world considers to be MMORPG's, shooters, etc just isn't the way, that kind of denial is what children do, not adults. Or at least, shouldn't do imo.
  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

6/15/12 3:32:51 PM#128

I know it was a great poke at this game a couple months back when it was actually fresh to say it was a single player game but you guys want to give that a rest already? Lot of things you could say about this game.

However, saying that argument just comes across as being stupid and pretty much discounts anything worthwhile you might have to say.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/15/12 3:36:36 PM#129
Originally posted by Wickedjelly

I know it was a great poke at this game a couple months back when it was actually fresh to say it was a single player game but you guys want to give that a rest already? Lot of things you could say about this game.

However, saying that argument just comes across as being stupid and pretty much discounts anything worthwhile you might have to say.

 

Exactly this.

There's a lot that can be said justly regarding the flaws of TOR (and Rift), but let's at least be rational and sensible about it, instead of this childish 'this or that MMO isn't an MMORPG but a single player game' argument. Less immature hyperbole extremes, more depth in solid arguments.
  pierth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1515

6/15/12 3:45:29 PM#130


Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by pierth


Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by rdrakken

Seriously you're killing me.

Every person that has ever played EQ, EQ2, AC1, SWG, AO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO and a half dozen other MMORPGs are laughing at you for comparing SWTORs depth to that of other games.

Seriously, you're killing us...hell, you're killing the million plus people that quit SWTOR for how craptastic it is.



 
Seriously you're killing me.

Every game magazine, every MMO site, every gaming professional, every person that has ever played EQ, EQ2, AC1, SWG, AO, DAoC, WoW, LOTRO and a half dozen other MMORPGs are laughing at you for saying that TOR isn't an MMORPG.

Seriously, you're killing us...hell, you're killing the millions of people that have payed themepark MMO's including TOR for saying that they haven't played MMORPG's all this time. Every rational, objective person realises what the world considers an MMORPG and not, what's a shooter and not. If you find an MMO 'craptastic', it's still an MMORPG, even if it doesn't feel like what you think an MMORPG must be. But hey, wikipedia, all these MMO sites and gaming sites, the whole gaming industry must be liars too with what they see as MMORPG, right?


But TOR is just a massively single player game with optional multiplayer- like D3 but without as much depth and far less of a disgrace as the third part of a trilogy.



 
Nope. TOR is an MMORPG, try to redefine MMORPG's to only those that you like to play all you want, but TOR and all other themepark MMO's that other people think aren't MMORPG's either, are still MMORPG's and regarded as such by everyone who can be objective and rational about it, and accept what the de facto standard is -_-
Kinda lame and childish, this constant redefining of the MMORPG genre by those who don't like a number of games in it. What are we, 11 years old here? Grow up, be honest and just say 'it's not an MMORPG of the type I like' or 'it's not what I think MMORPG's should be', living in denial what the rest of the gaming world considers to be MMORPG's, shooters, etc just isn't the way, that kind of denial is what children do, not adults. Or at least, shouldn't do imo.

You mean the de facto standard of any Dev that wants to label an online game with any multiplayer capability as a MMORPG if they wish? Not sure where you've been but I've yet to see any "standards" for a MMORPG.

  Irus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 780

6/15/12 3:46:17 PM#131

You really think anyone would have survived until Rift's end game if it (the entire rest of the game) had SW:TOR's quality?

  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

6/15/12 8:31:29 PM#132
Originally posted by Irus

You really think anyone would have survived until Rift's end game if Rift had SW:TOR's total lack of the Massively Multiplayer part of MMO?

 

Fixed it for ya.

  karat76

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 1011

Greatest threat to society is letting casualties of puberty reproduce.

6/15/12 8:37:32 PM#133

I left Rift and ToR for same reason they felt the same lifeless quest hubs pushing you toward yet another raid treadmill.

  Trol1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 184

6/15/12 9:29:16 PM#134
Originally posted by Z3R01

Edit: Don't get all frazzled because im pointing out the obvious. SWTOR is a failed game because it lacks a legit endgame.

You don't see Trion PR saying RIFT didnt catch on and they will be moving their focus away from it did you? EA certainly did that and we all read it!!!!!

TRION releases new content all the time, Even after they reduced servers by 50% they still gave their dedicated players content and events. What is EA doing? Running for the hills! This my friends is a fact.

Argh... okay, first EA said that SWTOR is not a primary focus for them. 

Ever noticed that e.g. NCSoft never really said that GW2 is a major focus for them? 

Because they are the company at the top with a studio underneath working its magic creating the game. 

Of course GW2 is the primary focus for ANet, as is SWTOR for BW.

Trion on the other hand, well, they don't have much released content in their portfolio right now to focus on :-P

Now, on to the "endgame" point... which frankly always makes me laugh: you understand what "endgame" means, right? End of the game? The final big fight? The "this is it!" moment? 

If you don't understand that, well, I'm sorry, we are not here to provide basic education in the meaning of the most simple of words.

SWTOR doesn't need a lot of "endgame" content (in the early stages of its life) if you play it correctly... which would mean using the low to high level content to level up alts!

Anyhow, just as with this simple fact, people see things the way want to see them, so, if you feel that EA has abbandoned SWTOR, if you feel that SWTOR is lacking in the only content that is relevant for playing it, who am I to argue with you? 

Enjoy playing Rift. Others enjoy playing other games. And life is all good. 

  Ausare

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/11
Posts: 870

6/15/12 9:57:42 PM#135
But now with lfg raids in wow more people raid
  Panthien

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/12
Posts: 566

6/15/12 10:29:18 PM#136
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by kevjards
Originally posted by Z3R01

 

Trion created an endgame that wouldn't be completely devoured in two weeks.

 

SWTOR releasing with two raids

 

You are right , rift is doing better then Swtor, except.. not trying to nitpick.

You didnt complete your full rakata set in 2 weeks.

That and Rift was released with 1 raid zone, Patch 1.1 added the 2nd raid, River of souls.

Before they nerved it down the emblems needed for the T2 5man dungeon gear was rediculas fast, it took me 2 days to get my full set.

  Trol1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 184

6/16/12 12:54:18 AM#137
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Trol1

Now, on to the "endgame" point... which frankly always makes me laugh: you understand what "endgame" means, right? End of the game? The final big fight? The "this is it!" moment? 

If you don't understand that, well, I'm sorry, we are not here to provide basic education in the meaning of the most simple of words.

SWTOR doesn't need a lot of "endgame" content (in the early stages of its life) if you play it correctly... which would mean using the low to high level content to level up alts!

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

And yes, guess what: games are created with different concepts in mind: I don't know how old you are - better to not assume that your posting style is any indication - but you may remember games like Unreal and Quake2? 

These games catered both to a singleplayer side and a multiplayer side. 

Bring in Starsiege: Tribes, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Arena: the single player component was dropped in favor of what the publishers felt the gamers wanted: multiplayer action.

BW did a reverse on that: they created a MMO that focused strongly on creating characters with storylines. (whether that is fitting for an MMO or not doesn't matter)

Now, if all players had invested the time into a) going thru all thr 8 storylines and b) not once spacebarring any of the quest dialog, you want to take a guess how many would now actually be playing exclusively "endgame" content? 

SWTOR's endgame is really just a bit of nice and of the game content, which would work perfectly fne if one didn't overdo it... as most gamers now do... 

  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

6/16/12 1:04:25 AM#138

"Bioware staff have been fired over SWTOR failing dude!"

yeah,i feel sorry for the persons family of the staff they fired.it must suck knowing you lost your job because of a bunch of impatience whiney babys who wanted years of content in a 6 month old mmo left

 

  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

6/16/12 1:08:21 AM#139
Originally posted by Trol1
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Trol1

Now, on to the "endgame" point... which frankly always makes me laugh: you understand what "endgame" means, right? End of the game? The final big fight? The "this is it!" moment? 

If you don't understand that, well, I'm sorry, we are not here to provide basic education in the meaning of the most simple of words.

SWTOR doesn't need a lot of "endgame" content (in the early stages of its life) if you play it correctly... which would mean using the low to high level content to level up alts!

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

And yes, guess what: games are created with different concepts in mind: I don't know how old you are - better to not assume that your posting style is any indication - but you may remember games like Unreal and Quake2? 

These games catered both to a singleplayer side and a multiplayer side. 

Bring in Starsiege: Tribes, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Arena: the single player component was dropped in favor of what the publishers felt the gamers wanted: multiplayer action.

BW did a reverse on that: they created a MMO that focused strongly on creating characters with storylines. (whether that is fitting for an MMO or not doesn't matter)

Now, if all players had invested the time into a) going thru all thr 8 storylines and b) not once spacebarring any of the quest dialog, you want to take a guess how many would now actually be playing exclusively "endgame" content? 

SWTOR's endgame is really just a bit of nice and of the game content, which would work perfectly fne if one didn't overdo it... as most gamers now do... 

 

Excellent job.  You described it well. 

 

You just got done describing a single player game with multiplayer aspects.  Congratulations. 

  Ashen_X

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/10
Posts: 365

6/16/12 4:05:56 AM#140
Originally posted by Z3R01

I know it isnt fair to expect a new game to have that much content at launch but the harsh reality is that it matters and players will leave your game if you dont offer as much as their old game.

Actually I think that it is perfectly fair to expect any new game that charges as much as the old games to offer as much as they do.

 

Note to game developers:

If your game is going to cost as much to play as games that have 5+ years of content additions and polish then expect to be compared to those games.

When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.

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