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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How Rift beat SWTOR

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144 posts found
  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  6/15/12 11:27:34 AM#101
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

SWTOR may be in trouble, but Rift certainly didn't "beat" it.

Look at both games right now. 

Which one looks like it has the most longetivity? Which one will be relevant years from now?

EA is refocusing, thats a fact.

Most of Biowares division that helped create SWTOR were fired.

The game just shutdown/merged a hundred+ servers

The bioware developer just came out and said F2p is a possiblilty because they cant stay competitive.

All facts, all documented. 

 

Rift isnt perfect, it has Issues but its nowhere near as bad as SWTOR right now. I dont see Trion firing people, or refocusing or talking F2p to compete.

 

Maybe I should have named this thread differently? Maybe "How Rift Survived SWTOR" maybe i would have gotten a better response lol.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  armengar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/06
Posts: 50

6/15/12 11:27:43 AM#102

Correct title should be How EA/Bio dropped the ball on SWTOR.

 

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11552

6/15/12 11:29:02 AM#103
Originally posted by Wicoa

Trion continue to develop rift faster and harder than any other company in the industry (afaik) I dont play rift but by god do those boys and girls know how to churn out the patches.

this

Trion is a great role model for how content patches should be cranked out

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

6/15/12 11:29:41 AM#104
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Wicoa

Trion continue to develop rift faster and harder than any other company in the industry (afaik) I dont play rift but by god do those boys and girls know how to churn out the patches.

this

Trion is a great role model for how content patches should be cranked out

 I completely agree as well.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11552

6/15/12 11:33:14 AM#105
Originally posted by Z3R01

I dont see Trion firing people, or refocusing or talking F2p to compete.

in fairness, EA isnt talking ftp in the sense of making the entire game ftp

 

TOR's upcoming unlimited free trial is the same thing RIFT did with RIFT Lite

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/01/enter-at-your-own-rift-want-to-play-rift-for-free-now-you-ca/

 

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

6/15/12 11:33:51 AM#106

Interesting concept there OP but I quit both games after the same game time for the same reasons. Just because Rift was able to save their game means nothing.

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  6/15/12 11:34:40 AM#107
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Z3R01

I dont see Trion firing people, or refocusing or talking F2p to compete.

in fairness, EA isnt talking ftp in the sense of making the entire game ftp

 

TOR's upcoming unlimited free trial is the same thing RIFT did with RIFT Lite

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/01/enter-at-your-own-rift-want-to-play-rift-for-free-now-you-ca/

 

Check out the new IGN article on SWTOR F2p. The level 15 free trial is already known, this article is different.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11552

6/15/12 11:37:05 AM#108
Originally posted by Z3R01

Check out the new IGN article on SWTOR F2p. The level 15 free trial is already known, this article is different.

thanks - I was unaware

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  6/15/12 11:37:29 AM#109
Originally posted by Thorbrand

Interesting concept there OP but I quit both games after the same game time for the same reasons. Just because Rift was able to save their game means nothing.

Sure it does.

I quit both games also. 

Doesn't mean it isnt relevant in the MMO space. 

Imo mmos that release with limited Endgame content (if they are themeparks) should suffer the wrath of server shutdowns or failure by going F2p.

Its a lesson, This happening to Bioware a studio that only a couple years ago never released a bad game sends a message to other developers that they should deliver games that can realistically compete with the big boys or not try at all.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

6/15/12 11:40:37 AM#110
Originally posted by Thorbrand

 Just because Rift was able to save their game means nothing.

 I really don't get how you can believe that and think it "means nothing".

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1226

6/15/12 11:44:51 AM#111
Originally posted by Z3R01

 

I agree with a lot of with your saying but the sad truth is these games ask players to pay a subscription fee. last I check a good amount of the mmo community can't sub to every new game. 

They ask you to pay a subscription fee if you find the game to be worth it.  And "worth it" is an entirely subjective thing. Friends of mine think I'm nuts for paying a sub fee to FFXIV, which they feel is "still a pay-to-play Beta" (that's a whole other debate right there). I think it's perfectly worth it. Why? Because for me the game has plenty to do and I'm enjoying myself. It's worth the sub fee for me. The same is true for many others who are still playing it as well.

If you're talking about the "value for the money" thing, you are dipping into the same kind of situation as the "finished game" situation.

Let's say you, me and one other person were stood side by side. Each of us was asked if "game x" was worth a sub fee to each of us. I say "Yes, definitely". You say "No. No way". The third person says "Yes, but probably not for more than a month". Now multiply that by several hundred thousand people whom to varying degrees all have their own sense of value and entertainment, and you get the picture.

There is no "one size fits all" answer to the "is it worth the subscription fee" question. Just like the "finished game" argument, it comes back to the individual. The only person who can decide whether a game has enough to be worth the subscription fee (or if it's "finished enough") for you... is you.

in this genre, with the P2p model you are in direct competition with all P2p games even if they are 5+ years old.

If you dont offer more content, better gameplay and new mechanics people will just stay with their current subscribed game. its like Cable services. 

You're attempting the impossible here. You're attempting to reduce the "wants" are of every gamer out there in a neat little package. You can't.

Some people might be attracted to the new IP more than their previous game. Some might just be sick of the previous game and want something new. Some might be more interested in the gameplay style of the game. Some people might be more interested in specific features of the new game. Some people might have friends going to play the new game and so they want to hang with them. Some people will check out a new MMO while still playing their older one simply because they like having variety. There are people who are far more excited about playing a new game that looks interesting than they are in sticking with the one they've been playing for years.

And on and on and on...

The reasons people choose to play one game over another are almost as varied as the number of people playing them. You can't just sum up "what all gamers are looking for in a game" in one sentence as you attempt to.

This imo is why I feel the subscription model needs to be tossed in the trash. because it is impossible to compete with something like WoW when all of these games require a Sub. Now if they were all B2p or F2p? 

The problem with your argument is that you assume that every MMO has to compete with WoW just by virtue of it being WoW.

Therein lies the fallacy.

Again, you attempt to place an objective definition on something that's 100% subjective. There are active MMO players out there who have not touched WoW since it launched. Its existence means absolutely squat to them. Why? It's not what they're interested in.

WoW is only a factor if you're a developer attempting to directly compete with it or snag some of its player base.

If you're hardcore into a game like Eve Online, WoW is a non-factor to you, for example.

maybe they would have a shot. 

Anyway thats a topic for another thread, But I would like to thank you for your post.

Not a problem :).

 

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/15/12 11:55:18 AM#112
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

SWTOR may be in trouble, but Rift certainly didn't "beat" it.

Look at both games right now. 

Which one looks like it has the most longetivity? Which one will be relevant years from now?

EA is refocusing, thats a fact.

Most of Biowares division that helped create SWTOR were fired.

The game just shutdown/merged a hundred+ servers

The bioware developer just came out and said F2p is a possiblilty because they cant stay competitive.

All facts, all documented. 

 

Rift isnt perfect, it has Issues but its nowhere near as bad as SWTOR right now. I dont see Trion firing people, or refocusing or talking F2p to compete.

 

Maybe I should have named this thread differently? Maybe "How Rift Survived SWTOR" maybe i would have gotten a better response lol.

 

Ok, then here's the missing facts:

In every possible available measuring tool, xfire, Steam, Raptr, you name it, Rift showed a decrease down to 20% of its launch playerbase after the same 6-7 months that we look at for TOR. That is 20% remaining end of August, course of September 2011.

Rift started earlier than TOR with its server transfers and 'mergers', oh sorry, 'trial servers'. tbh, both don't have server merges since after the server transfers the left servers were still around, both in Rift and TOR. But Rift started the transfers already 4 months after launch.

Talk about F2P doesn't mean much, other MMO's took like a year to realise it from the actual start of working on it. Which BW isn't doing right now.

Full content updates for TOR are still going on at a steady rate, that's a fact too.


As for Rift, I don't know, if 10% of its launch playerbase is good enough for the Trion management to keep their P2P model up, well, good for them, different design decisions. LotrO had still a larger percentage of their launch playerbase when it went F2P, but foremostly because the Turbine guys saw how profitable it was for their DDO. I wouldn't really call it a success, and I'm curious what will be left of the Rift playerbase when the other heavy MMO hitters arrive, WoW's MoP, GW2, TSW, Planetside 2... will be interesting.


There's one thing I agree on, and that's that Rift's patching and content update team is a good example of how things should be, their activity level is one of the best, their PR & communication team too btw (calling defunct servers 'trial servers' in order to avoid the term 'server merges'? Pure genius ^^)
  User Deleted
6/15/12 11:56:35 AM#113
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by Berikai
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by Z3R01
SWTOR is bleeding subs faster and has merged servers faster and contemplated F2p faster than any AAA mmo to ever release. <--- Facts

 

^that line in red is the reason RIFT Beat SWTOR. Concurrent user data means jack atm.

 

Well, as other posts in this thread have already shown, what you stated is untrue and so means jack s**t bc of it. TOR is definitely not the one that bled subs the fastest, in fact it's close to how many subs Rift lost in percentage during their 6-7 months after launch - oh, and if you claim that concurrent user data and Xfire and Steam and Raptr mean shit, then at least come with reliable sub facts about your claim, otherwise they mean even less than jack and outright lies, just saying. Also, Rift started their server transfers and server merges - oh, sorry, their 'trial server' designations - like 4 months or so after its launch.

 

So yeah, sounds to me like some Rift history rewriting and whitewashing.


Well I don't know what numbers you're looking at for Rift but according to Mmodata.net Rift peaked around 600k subs and still showed close to 250k in early 2012.So it looks to me like they're retaining better than 40% and many people believe TOR is at 500k-600k right now or will be very quickly.So I'd say TOR has bled far more and far quicker then Rift.

 

You're too funny, really hilarious actually ^_^

 

Ok, let's work with your argument: I don't know what you're looking at, but mmodata clearly states that TOR has 1.3m subs, and since mmodata can't be wrong since you use it as proof for Rift as well, mmodata renders your own proof and argument void. Or are you 1 of those persons that use double standards, and only look at stuff for 1 side? Like, 'mmodata is right when it's about rift and it should be ignored when it's about TOR'?

 

Right. Bottomline is, those mmodata charts are only partially based on actual official data, the rest is extrapolations or estimations and best-guess speculations. Or did you see any official statements about Rift sub numbers? If so, please do show us the link! I'm definitely interested.

 

Either mmodata is the absolute truth for all MMO's incl TOR, or its numbers should be taken with a grain of salt and scepsis, nice but never always hard, official data.

 

In all of the available tools, Rift show a consistent drop to like 10-15% now compared to what it had after launch. Take that however you like, but to me if the trend is the same regardless in what tool it's measured, then that's saying something.


Yes and as pretty much anyone that's followed TOR knows that the 1.3 mill stated also included the free 30 days.That's why EA is EA they bend info to their benefit without actually doing anything illegal.

I played TOR and am playing Rift right now.However I'm not in denial of the obvious.For TOR to be looking at ftp at the 6 month mark tells me that 500k mark of sustainability is very close.Rift was at 350k at 6 month's,which means they dropped around 250k in that time,huge difference.

I'm not going to argue beyond this,some people always have to see hard number's,while other's can see the writing on the wall.It is what it is :)

  rdrakken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

6/15/12 11:58:06 AM#114
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Wicoa

Trion continue to develop rift faster and harder than any other company in the industry (afaik) I dont play rift but by god do those boys and girls know how to churn out the patches.

this

Trion is a great role model for how content patches should be cranked out

 I completely agree as well.

 As do I and I do NOT like Rift at all. Rift is an MMO, SWTOR is a SRPG with forced online multi-player, its lacking in far too many MMO gameplay aspects to be called an MMO.

  User Deleted
6/15/12 12:00:27 PM#115

I'll say it again, just cut TOR's head off and let the healing process begin. Bioware really botched this up big time.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/15/12 12:05:46 PM#116
Originally posted by Berikai

I played TOR and am playing Rift right now.However I'm not in denial of the obvious.For TOR to be looking at ftp at the 6 month mark tells me that 500k mark of sustainability is very close.Rift was at 350k at 6 month's,which means they dropped around 250k in that time,huge difference.

I'm not going to argue beyond this,some people always have to see hard number's,while other's can see the writing on the wall.It is what it is :)

 

Lol. First you say you're not in denial, then you follow it up with comments like that, heh, funny. What is it, trust mmodata, don't trust mmodata? Ignore it all now? :-)

Still don't see those official sub numbers of Rift, where are you hiding them? Come on, give them please. I'll throw you a bone: I think that a lot of figures in those mmodata charts are merely speculations and best guesses, especially the ones that have no official source. I think that Rift wasn't at 350k after 6 months, nor do I think that TOR is at 1.3 million after 6 months. The whole 'I'm not going to argue beyond this' is cute, but it only means that you have little to back it up, besides subjective impressions. Oh, and the mmodata numbers that we already determined is questionable or lacking official sources.

However, when the same trend in population can be observed not only in 1 tool, but roughly the same in various different tools, then that's saying something. To me, at least more than wild guesses that usually have a big dose of wishful thinking in them. And what those tools are saying is that Rift was around 20-25% after 6 months and like 10% now of its launch playerbase.
  warmaster670

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/08
Posts: 1441

6/15/12 12:06:08 PM#117
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Z3R01

 

Trion created an endgame that wouldn't be completely devoured in two weeks.

 

Posts like this should not be permitted as it was only intended to start a flame war.  SInce when was this a boxing match?

 .

Why because its true? 

No.

 

Listen, I don't mean to be offensive either, but I am sensing you are probably very young judging by your membership date and the maturity level of your posts.  But when you get a bit older, you will realize the world isnt so black and white.  Maybe some day you will understand how posts like these just seem like the cries of a child

 

I'm done.  If you don't undertand that, ask your teacher to help you

 

Rofl, "your post shouldnt be permitted, its just gonna start a flame war!!" proceeds to insult other user.

 

Wonder if you realize how stupid you look complaining about the content of someone elses post then insulting them while trying to act superior.

Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/15/12 12:12:20 PM#118
Originally posted by rdrakken
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Wicoa

Trion continue to develop rift faster and harder than any other company in the industry (afaik) I dont play rift but by god do those boys and girls know how to churn out the patches.

this

Trion is a great role model for how content patches should be cranked out

 I completely agree as well.

 As do I and I do NOT like Rift at all. Rift is an MMO, SWTOR is a SRPG with forced online multi-player, its lacking in far too many MMO gameplay aspects to be called an MMO.

 

This makes no sense. If TOR isn't an MMO, then other MMO's like WoW and LotrO and EQ2 etc aren't MMO's either. TOR has all the regular MMO features that those other ones have too, and even more. If you don't enjoy them, that's another matter, but they're still there, for people to enjoy them.

People on this site often make no sense at all, no logic, everything black&white, wow...

Originally posted by Mephster

I'll say it again, just cut TOR's head off and let the healing process begin. Bioware really botched this up big time.

Why? If you don't like the game, simply don't play it and ignore it, just like other MMO's you dislike, and let the game be played by other people who do enjoy it. Kinda selfish to want to see a game removed that other people are enjoying, simply because you dislike it >.<
  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2775

6/15/12 12:25:29 PM#119
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

SWTOR may be in trouble, but Rift certainly didn't "beat" it.

Look at both games right now. 

Which one looks like it has the most longetivity? Which one will be relevant years from now?

EA is refocusing, thats a fact.

Most of Biowares division that helped create SWTOR were fired.

The game just shutdown/merged a hundred+ servers

The bioware developer just came out and said F2p is a possiblilty because they cant stay competitive.

All facts, all documented. 

 

Rift isnt perfect, it has Issues but its nowhere near as bad as SWTOR right now. I dont see Trion firing people, or refocusing or talking F2p to compete.

 

Maybe I should have named this thread differently? Maybe "How Rift Survived SWTOR" maybe i would have gotten a better response lol.

How many servers does Rift have?  Rift did their own mergers but poorly disguised it.

 

SWTOR will have more longevity than Rift.  Rift is scampering to try to cater to everyone and will likely cater to far fewer.

  rdrakken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

6/15/12 12:30:13 PM#120
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by rdrakken

 As do I and I do NOT like Rift at all. Rift is an MMO, SWTOR is a SRPG with forced online multi-player, its lacking in far too many MMO gameplay aspects to be called an MMO.

 

This makes no sense. If TOR isn't an MMO, then other MMO's like WoW and LotrO and EQ2 etc aren't MMO's either. TOR has all the regular MMO features that those other ones have too, and even more. If you don't enjoy them, that's another matter, but they're still there, for people to enjoy them.

 

People on this site often make no sense at all, no logic, everything black&white, wow...

 This makes no sense...which is why you are comparing a new game with little content to games that have been out for over 5 years with massive amounts of content and are not naming anything specifically. If you enjoy the game, thats another matter, but they're still not the same, for people that dont enjoy it.

People on this site often make no sense at all, no logic, everything black&white, wow...

SWTOR has zero RPing items, doesnt even provide the ability to SIT on a seat. Has generic crafting with no depth, no community driven economy, every aspect of the game is instanced and only a few servers have that thing that MMOs have called a...what is it again...oh yeah, a community. Once the main story is done you have a choice between a few PvP "games" that are instanced and a few small areas on a couple of planets to play in and....wait for it...a few flashpoints. A few dailies to do on the final planet does not an end game make.

endgame in SWTOR = a few dailies, a few PvP instances and a few flashpoints.

OMG it has everything all other MMOs ever made has...no really...those 3 MMOs you named with massive amounts of things to do in every MMO aspect you can think of offer NOTHING SWTOR also offers.

You are living in a dream world. Just because you like the little SWTOR gives, doesnt mean you should blinding defend it against games that offer far far far far far more....because you...wont...be getting it, Bioware has proven it with their interviews over the last few weeks...SWTOR in their eyes is not lacking in variety of gameplay and they only intend to extend the class storyline and add a few flashpoints and PvP isntances.

So, you enjoy the game...great, no need to lie and try to make the game sound remotely close to what other MMOs are offering. Unlimited real world PvP, the RP part of RPG, variety of endgame, a decent economy, a crafting system that isnt out of the 90s...and completely lacking in moronic ideas like rewarding RPing items for group farming social points.

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