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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How Rift beat SWTOR

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144 posts found
  Z3R01

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  6/15/12 8:20:07 AM#41
Originally posted by keinohr
Originally posted by Grixxitt

Rift beat SWTOR by being PROFITABLE 

This. EA has different expectations than Trion. And i don't think that Rift has more than 500k - 1 mio. subscribers.

 

Furthermore it's much easier for Trion to deliver updates/content patches more frequently because the overall package of the initial game was weak compared to other p2p mmorpgs. MMO.Maverick measured the mmo worlds and came to a shocking conclusion:

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Alright, I did some more testing in Rift, and this is what I came up with:

 

run speed: 10.8 m/h

For this I used the distance feature ingame where it states how far you are from a location. I ran for 30 seconds, and see what distance I'd traveled.

 

crossing distance:

worldmap from north => south:  corrected to 25.5 min

worldmap from east => west: corrected to 30.5 min

I ran a certain distance in a straight line, checked how long it took, then compared the distance traveled on the worldmap to the overall size of the world.

 

The run speed and crossing distance led to the following size for the world in miles:

worldmap from north => south: corrected to 4.6 miles

worldmap from east => west: corrected to 5.5 miles

 

I admit, the final result was a surprise, based on earlier tests I'd thought the world of Rift to be as large as 1 WoW continent or maybe somewhat smaller, but that was before I took the run speed difference into account.

Based on the figures above this is how the actual comparison would look like, when you'd put Rift's regions next to WoW's Kalimdor (I picked Kalimdor, because  most people are familiar with the general feel and size of it)

 

edit: I replaced it with the new picture that's more accurate:

http://www.morpg.com/mobile/forums.cfm?ismb=1&threadId=306052

 

I'm not saying that's a bad strategy because Trion Worlds has some decent success. There's even an Interview with Lars Butler about it:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/171894/Trions_Lars_Buttler_discusses_what_went_wrong_with_38_Studios_Star_Wars__.php

 

He maybe sounds arrogant because Trion also tried to rival WoW and "failed".

Yet people are leaving SWTOR much faster and in greater numbers than they did in RIFT.

Guess Leveling content doesn't mean much.

Oh and while you bring up leveling zone size may i remind you that Trion is tripling the land mass size with the expansion.

What is EA doing? They're moving on, refocusing their efforts in more profitable ventures... 

 

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

6/15/12 8:22:13 AM#42
Originally posted by Illyssia
 With large server merging/formation and Bioware likely to adapt its subscription model SWTOR is looking a better bet for a mmo right now. Heck, it's Star Wars folks, that alone is good enough for me.

 Completely disagree. When you judge EA's past history with games when they underperform such as Warhammer and the route things are going with this game SWTOR doesn't look like a better bet compared to most mmos out there.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  MMOGamer71

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1547

6/15/12 8:24:50 AM#43
Originally posted by Jackdog

judt looked at the XFire numbers, Rift is 71st, SWOTOR is #11. Looks like a lor of people disagree with the OP. RIFT does not even have 1000 user hours per day , even DC Universe Online beats RIFT

 

Yet on Steam (which SWTOR is not on) there are 470 online and 125 in game.

 

 

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6374

6/15/12 8:26:35 AM#44
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog

judt looked at the XFire numbers, Rift is 71st, SWOTOR is #11. Looks like a lor of people disagree with the OP. RIFT does not even have 1000 user hours per day , even DC Universe Online beats RIFT

Yep because Xfire is a requirement to Run MMOs.

Dude who the hell still uses Xfire? I swear you guys bring up that crappy program like its a good way to gage anything.

because it is a good way to gauge the general population of a game. Same as political polls. Does not matter whether you like it or not it works for a general assesment. You can also use Quantcast and Alexa to gauge website traffic. Rift was a flash in the pan, it  never grew legs

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/riftgame.com#

 

I miss DAoC

  MMOGamer71

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1547

6/15/12 8:28:47 AM#45
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog

judt looked at the XFire numbers, Rift is 71st, SWOTOR is #11. Looks like a lor of people disagree with the OP. RIFT does not even have 1000 user hours per day , even DC Universe Online beats RIFT

Yep because Xfire is a requirement to Run MMOs.

Dude who the hell still uses Xfire? I swear you guys bring up that crappy program like its a good way to gage anything.

because it is a good way to gauge the general population of a game. Same as political polls. Does not matter whether you like it or not it works for a general assesment. You can also use Quantcast and Alexa to gauge website traffic. Rift was a flash in the pan, it  never grew legs

Here we go again with Xfire numbers to "prove" how good a game is or is not.

 

 

/drinks

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

6/15/12 8:30:16 AM#46

Xfire is good for trending and absolutely worthless for eveything else. Amazing how I've seen Xfiire used just with SWTOR alone by some to show it is failing and by others to show how successful it is.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Z3R01

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  6/15/12 8:30:36 AM#47
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog

judt looked at the XFire numbers, Rift is 71st, SWOTOR is #11. Looks like a lor of people disagree with the OP. RIFT does not even have 1000 user hours per day , even DC Universe Online beats RIFT

Yep because Xfire is a requirement to Run MMOs.

Dude who the hell still uses Xfire? I swear you guys bring up that crappy program like its a good way to gage anything.

because it is a good way to gauge the general population of a game. Same as political polls. Does not matter whether you like it or not it works for a general assesment. You can also use Quantcast and Alexa to gauge website traffic. Rift was a flash in the pan, it  never grew legs

Dude who uses it? 

What does Xfire offer? Why should anyone keep it on? To tally their /played in a forum banner?

Im sorry but Xfires time has long passed, you show me something relevant like Steam activity or maybe even the amount of people using Vent that are logged into either game. Both would yield ten times the number that Xfire does.

Hell... if you could do it with Skype it would make for a more realistic number.

You like stats from a site thats half a decade passed its prime and I'm supposed to care.

What about facts dude? SWTOR going from 220+ servers to 20-30 active ones. Now that shows me much more than some site that tallys stats for 1k users.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6374

6/15/12 8:31:52 AM#48
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog

judt looked at the XFire numbers, Rift is 71st, SWOTOR is #11. Looks like a lor of people disagree with the OP. RIFT does not even have 1000 user hours per day , even DC Universe Online beats RIFT

Yep because Xfire is a requirement to Run MMOs.

Dude who the hell still uses Xfire? I swear you guys bring up that crappy program like its a good way to gage anything.

because it is a good way to gauge the general population of a game. Same as political polls. Does not matter whether you like it or not it works for a general assesment. You can also use Quantcast and Alexa to gauge website traffic. Rift was a flash in the pan, it  never grew legs

Here we go again with Xfire numbers to "prove" how good a game is or is not.

 

 

/drinks

wrong, it iis not a good way to judge whether a game is good or not, but it is a good way to judge the population of a game. Good is a emotional reaction, what one person considers good may or may not be what others consider good

I miss DAoC

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6374

6/15/12 8:33:32 AM#49
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog

judt looked at the XFire numbers, Rift is 71st, SWOTOR is #11. Looks like a lor of people disagree with the OP. RIFT does not even have 1000 user hours per day , even DC Universe Online beats RIFT

Yep because Xfire is a requirement to Run MMOs.

Dude who the hell still uses Xfire? I swear you guys bring up that crappy program like its a good way to gage anything.

because it is a good way to gauge the general population of a game. Same as political polls. Does not matter whether you like it or not it works for a general assesment. You can also use Quantcast and Alexa to gauge website traffic. Rift was a flash in the pan, it  never grew legs

Dude who uses it? 

What does Xfire offer? Why should anyone keep it on? To tally their /played in a forum banner?

Im sorry but Xfires time has long passed, you show me something relevant like Steam activity or maybe even the amount of people using Vent that are logged into either game. Both would yield ten times the number that Xfire does.

Hell... if you could do it with Skype it would make for a more realistic number.

it does not matter who uses it, it simply matters that users in all MMO's use it. It is simply a relevant population indicator.

you want another indicator, go to Alexa or Quantcast and you can compare website traffic numbers. A little research shows that 5 times the number of people visited the SWOTOR websit4e yesterday than visited the Rift site. That does not meant that 5 time the people are playing , but it does mean that 5 time more people were interested in the game enough to visit the website

I miss DAoC

  keinohr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/11
Posts: 61

6/15/12 8:38:12 AM#50
Originally posted by Z3R01

Yet people are leaving SWTOR much faster and in greater numbers than they did in RIFT.

Guess Leveling content doesn't mean much.

Oh and while you bring up leveling zone size may i remind you that Trion is tripling the land mass size with the expansion.

What is EA doing? They're moving on, refocusing their efforts in more profitable ventures... 

 

It's because they had "~1.7 mio." subscribers and Rift... mabye 600k.

 

EA/Bioware announed patch 1.3 at E3:

- 1 Planet

- levelcap raise to 60

- 1 companion

 

IMO the deciding factor is how companies treat their customers. Trion Worlds does a far superior job compared to EA/Bioware.

 

BTW.

Trion Worlds also had to merge some servers. In that aspect they're in the same boat.

  Z3R01

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  6/15/12 8:39:44 AM#51
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog

judt looked at the XFire numbers, Rift is 71st, SWOTOR is #11. Looks like a lor of people disagree with the OP. RIFT does not even have 1000 user hours per day , even DC Universe Online beats RIFT

Yep because Xfire is a requirement to Run MMOs.

Dude who the hell still uses Xfire? I swear you guys bring up that crappy program like its a good way to gage anything.

because it is a good way to gauge the general population of a game. Same as political polls. Does not matter whether you like it or not it works for a general assesment. You can also use Quantcast and Alexa to gauge website traffic. Rift was a flash in the pan, it  never grew legs

Dude who uses it? 

What does Xfire offer? Why should anyone keep it on? To tally their /played in a forum banner?

Im sorry but Xfires time has long passed, you show me something relevant like Steam activity or maybe even the amount of people using Vent that are logged into either game. Both would yield ten times the number that Xfire does.

Hell... if you could do it with Skype it would make for a more realistic number.

it does not matter who uses it, it simply matters that users in all MMO's use it. It is simply a relevant population indicator.

you want another indicator, go to Alexa or Quantcast and you can compare website traffic numbers.

Maybe, just maybe Rift players dont use Xfire... Like 99.9% of the actual mmo community.

"HAR HAR look at Xfire"

Give me a break please Bioware/EA just reduced SWTORs servers by more than 200!!!!!!!!

EA has gone on record saying they are focusing their efforts away from SWTOR!

Bioware staff have been fired over SWTOR failing dude!

HOWever, RIFT is revalant! Its still being developed for and has a new expansion on the way.

Trion hasn't fired anyone (hell they are making two more MMOs!) and the game has been steady when it comes to server merges for months now. 

Seriously who gives a crap about unreliable statistic sites like Xfire when you have all of that other info to go on?

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/15/12 8:41:40 AM#52
Originally posted by Z3R01
Yet people are leaving SWTOR much faster and in greater numbers than they did in RIFT.

Guess Leveling content doesn't mean much.

Oh and while you bring up leveling zone size may i remind you that Trion is tripling the land mass size with the expansion.

What is EA doing? They're moving on, refocusing their efforts in more profitable ventures... 

 

 

Hmm, I don't know. Around the same time last year, 6-7 months after launch, Rift had like 20-25% of its playerbase at launch left, doesn't sound that good. When it comes to landmass, that's not really TOR's problem, there's enough of that spread out over all those planets, landmass is a problem with Rift with its tiny world compared to other MMO's, so of course they're focusing on that.

Even then, there'll be an additional planet upcoming for TOR. What's EA/BW doing more? Well, the next content update has quite some things in it, even if it ain't what some people are hopin or wishing for.


About Xfire, or Steam or Raptr or whatever, Rift doesnt even appear in Steam's top 100 list anymore. I think that Trion is a good company, but player activity numbers for Rift has gone down to a tenth of what they were.
  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

6/15/12 8:42:12 AM#53
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by gotha

umm swtor had more fans at release,  has had a smaller drop percantage wise in fans,  and has a shitload more current subscribers?

 

How in seven hells has rift beaten swtor?

Profit margin.

 

SWTOR is sinking faster than a submarine with a screen door.

And before you flame me, SWTOR is the ONLY game I have ever pre-ordered and spend $140 some dollars on a Collectors Edition paperweight.

Yu may be right about profit margin but SW:TOR has sold far more copies and has much higher subscriber base. SW:TOR is second among MMORPGs on XFire and has an average of 1900ish of players playing per day where as Rift is 20th with 250 playing per day.

So, yeah yeah, XFire is not reliable bla bla bla but not many people would claim that SW:TOR has not many more subs than Rift. 

Not trying to defend SW:TOR but in my book both SW:TOR and Rift are failures. Generic Themepark clones with some gimmicks, instanced story lines for SW:TOR and random Rift spawns for Rift. Everything else is so standard about these two games that they could have been WoW sequels/expansions.

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4110

6/15/12 8:43:50 AM#54
Originally posted by Z3R01

 

Trion created an endgame that wouldn't be completely devoured in two weeks.

 

That and the fact that they earn their monthly sub with the fastest content patches and bug fixes I have ever seen in the industry.  That alone makes them beat just about every game out there, to be honest.  

http://www.twitch.tv/elockethemmoaddict

https://twitter.com/MMOAddicted

  Z3R01

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2459

MMO gamer since 1997

 
OP  6/15/12 8:45:04 AM#55
Originally posted by keinohr
Originally posted by Z3R01

Yet people are leaving SWTOR much faster and in greater numbers than they did in RIFT.

Guess Leveling content doesn't mean much.

Oh and while you bring up leveling zone size may i remind you that Trion is tripling the land mass size with the expansion.

What is EA doing? They're moving on, refocusing their efforts in more profitable ventures... 

 

It's because they had "~1.7 mio." subscribers and Rift... mabye 600k.

 

EA/Bioware announed patch 1.3 at E3:

- 1 Planet

- levelcap raise to 60

- 1 companion

 

IMO the deciding factor is how companies treat their customers. Trion Worlds does a far superior job compared to EA/Bioware.

 

BTW.

Trion Worlds also had to merge some servers. In that aspect they're in the same boat.

This is my last post on this topic. ive done what i wanted to do. made a simple topic post thats freaking obvious to anyone that takes part in this great genre of ours.

There's no debate, the server merges happened, EA has gone on record saying they are refocasing and now Bioware is talking Free to play.

To the above quoted poster. Rift going from 90 servers to 40 is much smaller percentage than Swtor going from 250 to 30.

I know my server numbers are a tad off but the percentage is in Rifts favor by a wide margin. 

 

I would also like to point out that many here said SWTOR would cause Rift to go F2p... I guess they were wrong.

 

 

Well have a good day guys, happy hunting.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Jimmydean

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/04
Posts: 1302

6/15/12 8:46:49 AM#56
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Z3R01

 

Trion created an endgame that wouldn't be completely devoured in two weeks.

 

That and the fact that they earn their monthly sub with the fastest content patches and bug fixes I have ever seen in the industry.  That alone makes them beat just about every game out there, to be honest.  

Yea Rift is the only Subscription MMO atm that really puts your subscription costs back into the game.  WoW? SWTOR? Not a chance. How much in subscription costs have WoW players paid for patch 4.3? By the time MoP comes out, they'll have paid at least $150 for 8 bosses that were beat within the first week. 

  Sameer1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 385

6/15/12 8:47:42 AM#57
Originally posted by Z3R01

 

Trion created an endgame that wouldn't be completely devoured in two weeks.

 

And how many raids Rift released with? i am a huge Rift fan but lets cutt the bull ok? Rift released almost a year ahead of SWTOR, it added a lot of raid content over the months, what makes you so sure BW won't?

  st3v3b0

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 127

6/15/12 8:48:06 AM#58

The problem is not with SW:TOR's end game content in that it can easily be completed.  Hell WoW's content could easily be completed for years now and they still have a firm market share.  The problem is BioWare preached and preached and preached that they did not want their end game to be 8 or 16 people beating on a single boss.  What did we get?  8 or 16 people beating on a single boss with two puzzle bosses tossed into the mix.  

People had expectations of something "different" and they were let down.  That is why I canceled my account.

  Jackdog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6374

6/15/12 8:48:54 AM#59
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Z3R01
Originally posted by Jackdog

judt looked at the XFire numbers, Rift is 71st, SWOTOR is #11. Looks like a lor of people disagree with the OP. RIFT does not even have 1000 user hours per day , even DC Universe Online beats RIFT

Yep because Xfire is a requirement to Run MMOs.

Dude who the hell still uses Xfire? I swear you guys bring up that crappy program like its a good way to gage anything.

because it is a good way to gauge the general population of a game. Same as political polls. Does not matter whether you like it or not it works for a general assesment. You can also use Quantcast and Alexa to gauge website traffic. Rift was a flash in the pan, it  never grew legs

Dude who uses it? 

What does Xfire offer? Why should anyone keep it on? To tally their /played in a forum banner?

Im sorry but Xfires time has long passed, you show me something relevant like Steam activity or maybe even the amount of people using Vent that are logged into either game. Both would yield ten times the number that Xfire does.

Hell... if you could do it with Skype it would make for a more realistic number.

it does not matter who uses it, it simply matters that users in all MMO's use it. It is simply a relevant population indicator.

you want another indicator, go to Alexa or Quantcast and you can compare website traffic numbers.

Maybe, just maybe Rift players dont use Xfire... Like 99.9% of the actual mmo community.

"HAR HAR look at Xfire"

Give me a break please Bioware/EA just reduced SWTORs servers by more than 200!!!!!!!!

EA has gone on record saying they are focusing their efforts away from SWTOR!

Bioware staff have been fired over SWTOR failing dude!

HOWever, RIFT is revalant! Its still being developed for and has a new expansion on the way.

Trion hasn't fired anyone (hell they are making two more MMOs!) and the game has been steady when it comes to server merges for months now. 

Seriously who gives a crap about unreliable statistic sites like Xfire when you have all of that other info to go on?

 

 

what other info?  from what information and hard numbers that I see SWOTOR peaked in December, declined drastically from December 31st to January 31st then a more gradual slope through may and has leveled out. Rift had less than a third of the users at peak which was over a year ago, had a decline until january and has been steady ever since but with about 1/5 th the users

 

If you can find some hard numbers other than the website traffic and XFire number I am using then I would be happy to look at them

I miss DAoC

  Kuinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 2002

6/15/12 8:50:26 AM#60
Originally posted by Z3R01

 

Trion created an endgame that wouldn't be completely devoured in two weeks.

 

 

Any mmorpg is more or less a fail that has separate end-game from the main game. When will mmo devs learn to utilize their huge open world as something else to do than just leveling. /sigh

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