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  User Deleted
6/20/12 5:32:21 AM#121
Originally posted by Ghost12

Whoa wait? Who are you to say Minecraft isnt a sandbox?

Some people like me consider Minecraft to be a sandbox. Minecraft

A) Has no on-rails gameplay

B) Fosters creativity

C) Nurtures an in-game community and social play

D) No classes and pre defined roles

How is Minecraft not a sandbox again???

Yes, there is no denying WoW reached millions of people. But WoW is an anomly. Has any other themepark reached millions? With the exception of TOR in its little 2-3 month Honeymoon phase? Please tell me...?

Crickets...chirp chirp.

Yes thats right. NO OTHER themepark other than WoW reached millions. So - themeparks arent that pervasive, WORLD of WARCRAFT is. See the difference? People have been trying to clone WoW for YEARS, and have always come up short. Why? Cause it ISNT WoW!

WoW has to be viewed as an anomly.

and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.

lol.

I love it, before the next big game to come out, people will say this exact same thing. "THIS one is going to reach millions of people!"

You know they were saying that before WAR, right? What happened to WAR?

It bombed. Mostly hardcore Warhammer fans play it.

What about AoC?

It bombed. Mostly kids who want a virtual porno play it.

What about RIFT?

It bombed. Mostly guild rejects from WoW play it.

What about TOR, you ask? What about the "biggest IP with one of the biggest  developers with one of the biggest resources pools behind it?

Within 6 months, TOR lost over 70% of its servers. One of the biggest Themeparks of them all, like you say.

And YOU would put your money on GW2? How many times will it take? How many times?

 

The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.

 

The discussion of themepark vs sandbox is EXTREMELY important and should be one of the main topics on these forums, which it is, For good reason.

I dont really understand how can these people still cling to "themepark=success".

We warned, begged BW not to go that route because its sure way to fail.

Of course, fanbois argument was same as now "no no, look at WoW" - but look at all failed WoW clones that followed, wise man looks at WHOLE picture and doesnt cling at one detail, that turned up to be EXCEPTION in the big picture.

Well, fast forward few years and im still looking at WoW as only successful themepark, exception, and im looking at SWTOR...well whats left of it at least.

You would presume that these people would learn from past mistakes, but it seems that even failure of epic proportions like SWTOR cannot teach them anything. theres a word for that.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/20/12 6:37:57 AM#122
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Ghost12

Whoa wait? Who are you to say Minecraft isnt a sandbox?

Some people like me consider Minecraft to be a sandbox. Minecraft

A) Has no on-rails gameplay

B) Fosters creativity

C) Nurtures an in-game community and social play

D) No classes and pre defined roles

How is Minecraft not a sandbox again???

Yes, there is no denying WoW reached millions of people. But WoW is an anomly. Has any other themepark reached millions? With the exception of TOR in its little 2-3 month Honeymoon phase? Please tell me...?

Crickets...chirp chirp.

Yes thats right. NO OTHER themepark other than WoW reached millions. So - themeparks arent that pervasive, WORLD of WARCRAFT is. See the difference? People have been trying to clone WoW for YEARS, and have always come up short. Why? Cause it ISNT WoW!

WoW has to be viewed as an anomly.

and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.

lol.

I love it, before the next big game to come out, people will say this exact same thing. "THIS one is going to reach millions of people!"

You know they were saying that before WAR, right? What happened to WAR?

It bombed. Mostly hardcore Warhammer fans play it.

What about AoC?

It bombed. Mostly kids who want a virtual porno play it.

What about RIFT?

It bombed. Mostly guild rejects from WoW play it.

What about TOR, you ask? What about the "biggest IP with one of the biggest  developers with one of the biggest resources pools behind it?

Within 6 months, TOR lost over 70% of its servers. One of the biggest Themeparks of them all, like you say.

And YOU would put your money on GW2? How many times will it take? How many times?

 

The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.

 

The discussion of themepark vs sandbox is EXTREMELY important and should be one of the main topics on these forums, which it is, For good reason.

I dont really understand how can these people still cling to "themepark=success".

We warned, begged BW not to go that route because its sure way to fail.

Of course, fanbois argument was same as now "no no, look at WoW" - but look at all failed WoW clones that followed, wise man looks at WHOLE picture and doesnt cling at one detail, that turned up to be EXCEPTION in the big picture.

Well, fast forward few years and im still looking at WoW as only successful themepark, exception, and im looking at SWTOR...well whats left of it at least.

You would presume that these people would learn from past mistakes, but it seems that even failure of epic proportions like SWTOR cannot teach them anything. theres a word for that.

 

Well, people will stick with 'themepark MMO's will be most successful' because it's the reality and the truth. That is, if you define successful as having a lot of subs and revenues. WoW is as themepark as you can get, and it has achieved 10+ million people playing it each month for years now. Aion made 200+ million dollar revenues yearly for 3 years at a stretch worldwide, which in my book can be considered a success. Other themepark MMO's had couple hundred k subs for several years, also not really a fail unless people think that only millions of subs can be regarded as success which would be laughable.

On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.

Doesn't mean that other types of MMO's can't be successful too, but it's hard to deny the obvious and that's that it's overall themepark based MMO's that have enjoyed the most success over the years.
  AmbrosiaAmor

Elite Member

Joined: 11/24/10
Posts: 790

6/20/12 6:40:32 AM#123

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=477706

or

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=479470


Updated on the 18th. This list is probably the finalized version for all the servers that are undergoing the server transfer service. Asia Pacific servers are not part of the server transfer since they had one of each server type available already.


Asia Pacific Servers: 3

1 PVP
1 PVE
1 RP-PVE

European Servers (French): 3

1 PVP
1 PVE
1 RP-PVE

European Servers (English): 4

1 PVP
2 PVE
1 RP-PVE

European Servers (German): 4

1 PVP
2 PVE
1 RP-PVE

NA Servers West: 4.5

1 PVP
2 PVE
0.5 RP-PVP
1 RP-PVE

NA Servers East: 7.5

2 PVP
4 PVE
0.5 RP-PVP
1 RP-PVE


Note: It seems both the RP-PVP for NA East and West are being consolidated into 1, hence why I gave it a 0.5 for each.


The grand total of servers is 26 down from 216. This is probably due in anticipation when the actual server merges happen. They have literally "almost" hit rock bottom with the number of servers. If you reduced each server type down to 1 for each region you would be left with 20 servers. You can't go lower than this unless you consolidate the NA servers further. The fact that they reached this point of "potentially" reducing their servers by 88% in 6 months is... well I'm speechless.

  User Deleted
6/20/12 10:51:01 AM#124
Originally posted by smh_alot Well, people will stick with 'themepark MMO's will be most successful' because it's the reality and the truth. That is, if you define successful as having a lot of subs and revenues. WoW is as themepark as you can get, and it has achieved 10+ million people playing it each month for years now. Aion made 200+ million dollar revenues yearly for 3 years at a stretch worldwide, which in my book can be considered a success. Other themepark MMO's had couple hundred k subs for several years, also not really a fail unless people think that only millions of subs can be regarded as success which would be laughable.

 

On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.

 

Doesn't mean that other types of MMO's can't be successful too, but it's hard to deny the obvious and that's that it's overall themepark based MMO's that have enjoyed the most success over the years.

And there we go again "but but but...look at WoW"

Rightio, you might want to read what you respond to sometimes ;)

And GW2 is not really a themepark either, neither it follows EQ/WoW recipe.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/20/12 10:57:24 AM#125
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by smh_alot Well, people will stick with 'themepark MMO's will be most successful' because it's the reality and the truth. That is, if you define successful as having a lot of subs and revenues. WoW is as themepark as you can get, and it has achieved 10+ million people playing it each month for years now. Aion made 200+ million dollar revenues yearly for 3 years at a stretch worldwide, which in my book can be considered a success. Other themepark MMO's had couple hundred k subs for several years, also not really a fail unless people think that only millions of subs can be regarded as success which would be laughable.

 

On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.

 

Doesn't mean that other types of MMO's can't be successful too, but it's hard to deny the obvious and that's that it's overall themepark based MMO's that have enjoyed the most success over the years.

And there we go again "but but but...look at WoW"

Rightio, you might want to read what you respond to sometimes ;)

 

It's nice how you advice but then in the same post show how you yourself apparently don't follow your own advice >.>

Like how I didn't mention only WoW, but how Aion another themepark MMO made 200+ million each year, how other themepark MMO's still had hundreds of thousands of subs for several years at a stretch, and how the most anticipated MMORPG and looked forward to MMO is, yet again, another themepark MMO, GW2.

I guess you had no really good answer to that, which there isn't, that's why you avoid all of those which my former post was about -_-

And yes, GW2 IS a themepark MMO, definitely not a sandbox or even a hybrid, it's filled to bursting with dev proved content, it's just not a WoW copy, not all themepark MMO's are straight WoW copies.
  User Deleted
6/20/12 11:07:33 AM#126
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Ghost12

Whoa wait? Who are you to say Minecraft isnt a sandbox?

Some people like me consider Minecraft to be a sandbox. Minecraft

A) Has no on-rails gameplay

B) Fosters creativity

C) Nurtures an in-game community and social play

D) No classes and pre defined roles

How is Minecraft not a sandbox again???

Yes, there is no denying WoW reached millions of people. But WoW is an anomly. Has any other themepark reached millions? With the exception of TOR in its little 2-3 month Honeymoon phase? Please tell me...?

Crickets...chirp chirp.

Yes thats right. NO OTHER themepark other than WoW reached millions. So - themeparks arent that pervasive, WORLD of WARCRAFT is. See the difference? People have been trying to clone WoW for YEARS, and have always come up short. Why? Cause it ISNT WoW!

WoW has to be viewed as an anomly.

and it looks like GW2, which is also a pure themepark MMO, will easily reach millions of sales and have a whole lot of people playing it for a long time.

lol.

I love it, before the next big game to come out, people will say this exact same thing. "THIS one is going to reach millions of people!"

You know they were saying that before WAR, right? What happened to WAR?

It bombed. Mostly hardcore Warhammer fans play it.

What about AoC?

It bombed. Mostly kids who want a virtual porno play it.

What about RIFT?

It bombed. Mostly guild rejects from WoW play it.

What about TOR, you ask? What about the "biggest IP with one of the biggest  developers with one of the biggest resources pools behind it?

Within 6 months, TOR lost over 70% of its servers. One of the biggest Themeparks of them all, like you say.

And YOU would put your money on GW2? How many times will it take? How many times?

 

The discussion themepark - sandbox, is kinda silly. Both have their gameplay elements that have their appeal to different kinds of gamers and sometimes to the same groups of gamers.

 

The discussion of themepark vs sandbox is EXTREMELY important and should be one of the main topics on these forums, which it is, For good reason.

I dont really understand how can these people still cling to "themepark=success".

We warned, begged BW not to go that route because its sure way to fail.

Of course, fanbois argument was same as now "no no, look at WoW" - but look at all failed WoW clones that followed, wise man looks at WHOLE picture and doesnt cling at one detail, that turned up to be EXCEPTION in the big picture.

Well, fast forward few years and im still looking at WoW as only successful themepark, exception, and im looking at SWTOR...well whats left of it at least.

You would presume that these people would learn from past mistakes, but it seems that even failure of epic proportions like SWTOR cannot teach them anything. theres a word for that.

 

Well, people will stick with 'themepark MMO's will be most successful' because it's the reality and the truth. That is, if you define successful as having a lot of subs and revenues. WoW is as themepark as you can get, and it has achieved 10+ million people playing it each month for years now. Aion made 200+ million dollar revenues yearly for 3 years at a stretch worldwide, which in my book can be considered a success. Other themepark MMO's had couple hundred k subs for several years, also not really a fail unless people think that only millions of subs can be regarded as success which would be laughable.

 

On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.

 

Doesn't mean that other types of MMO's can't be successful too, but it's hard to deny the obvious and that's that it's overall themepark based MMO's that have enjoyed the most success over the years.

 

*Facepalm*

So using your logic, anything with revenue for 3 years is successful?

Runescape was made in some kid's basement, and its considered the most successful FTP sandbox of all time. (Oh the irony that it will have more subs than TOR once TOR goes FTP LOL!!)

Minecraft was made with a fraction of what it took to make WoW, Aion and the rest of the big clones and has millions of players worldwide.

EVE's 300k population has stayed consistent and has made millions of dollars in revenues just like Aion.

Hell wait, UO, AC and the rest of the old school sandboxes can be considered successful by your definition as well.

WoW is an anomly. Face it, people have been trying to clone it, and its never happened. Never. Ever. And it never will happen.

On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.

 

Once again I've heard this song and dance before. They said the same thing about that before WAR came out, (We're going to make it about RVR PvP, but make the gameplay slow and boring. We'll keep it to two realms cause one realm wont become overpopulated. Right. Right?)

AOC (We're going to have an edgy, non-themepark PvP focused game, But wait, lets make it a themepark at last minute cause themeparks are successful. That wont make the player population angry, will it? I mean, the players didnt get angry when SOE changed stuff up, right?)

RIFT (Copy/Paste WoW with multi classes will be a surefire hit! Errr.... )

 

The idea that themeparks will be the most successful is not the reality or the truth. The reality and the truth is that every time a themepark MMO is released, a huge marketing and hype campaign precedes it. A bunch of players join, and then afterwards discover about the hoax and then leave in droves.

It seems to me, with all due respect If I were to run a conning operation where I had to fool people into buying a product that looks good but actually sucks, the FIRST PEOPLE I WOULD MARKET TO WOULD BE MMO GAMERS. Its such a good odds of selling, I couldnt resist. (I'm sure not all of you are that gullible )

  User Deleted
6/20/12 11:22:25 AM#127
Originally posted by smh_alot It's nice how you advice but then in the same post show how you yourself apparently don't follow your own advice >.>

 

Like how I didn't mention only WoW, but how Aion another themepark MMO made 200+ million each year, how other themepark MMO's still had hundreds of thousands of subs for several years at a stretch, and how the most anticipated MMORPG and looked forward to MMO is, yet again, another themepark MMO, GW2.

 

I guess you had no really good answer to that, which there isn't, that's why you avoid all of those which my former post was about -_-

 

And yes, GW2 IS a themepark MMO, definitely not a sandbox or even a hybrid, it's filled to bursting with dev proved content, it's just not a WoW copy, not all themepark MMO's are straight WoW copies.

1. Aion failed in teh West, i dont really know how can you be so badly informed. Its F2P in Europe, seems you missed that.

2. Contrary to your belief sandbox MMOs CAN have dev made content, in fact its mostly dev made content.

3. GW2 is not a themepark game. You dont seem to really grasp concept of themepark and sandbox.

4. You do not decide what success is or isnt. I can say "success is when MMO is just running" and proclaim Vanguard biggest success EVAR. You dont seem to grasp this concept either.

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

6/20/12 11:27:36 AM#128

Difference betweeen WoW and SWTOR is that WoW actually gained subscribers in 5-6 months and had to open up new servers, SWTOR started with tons of servers with expectations of gaining lots more subs than what they had at launch but at 5-6 months, population declined big time and will continue to decline even after the merges.


After the summer season is over and everyone's back to school the heavy populated servers will show signs of decline, right now on Prophecy of the Five there are 3 instances of fleet on both sides, 60-80 people in Black Hole and Belsavis, around 4 or 5 warzones happening at a time in each bracket but comes Sept all that will get cut in half.


  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/20/12 11:32:47 AM#129
Originally posted by Ghost12

*Facepalm*

So using your logic, anything with revenue for 3 years is successful?

Runescape was made in some kid's basement, and its considered the most successful FTP sandbox of all time. (Oh the irony that it will have more subs than TOR once TOR goes FTP LOL!!)

Minecraft was made with a fraction of what it took to make WoW, Aion and the rest of the big clones and has millions of players worldwide.

EVE's 300k population has stayed consistent and has made millions of dollars in revenues just like Aion.

Hell wait, UO, AC and the rest of the old school sandboxes can be considered successful by your definition as well.

WoW is an anomly. Face it, people have been trying to clone it, and its never happened. Never. Ever. And it never will happen.

On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.

 

Once again I've heard this song and dance before. They said the same thing about that before WAR came out, (ITS LIKE WOW EXCEPT THE FOCUS IS ON RVR OMG!! TOO BAD THE RVR WAS MEAININGLESS AND BORING!)

AOC (OMG, we're going to have an edgy, non-themepark PvP focused game, (BUT WAIT, LETS MAKE IT A THEMEPARK AT LAST MINUTE CUZ THEMEPARKS ARE SUCCESFUL. THAT WONT MAKE THE PLAYER POPLUATION ANGRY, WILL IT? jUST ASK SOE WITH SWG?)

RIFT (OMG MULTI CLASSES!!!111 TOO BAD ITS BORING!! been there done this?)

 

The idea that themeparks will be the most successful is not the reality or the truth. The reality and the truth is that every time a themepark MMO is released, a huge marketing and hype campaign precedes it. A bunch of players join, and then afterwards discover about the hoax and then leave in droves.

It seems to me, with all due respect If I were to run a conning operation where I had to fool people into buying a product that looks good but actually sucks, the FIRST PEOPLE I WOULD MARKET TO WOULD BE MMO GAMERS. Its such a good odds of selling, I couldnt resist. (I'm sure not all of you are gullible )

 

Sigh. I thought we were talking MMO's here, Minecraft isn't an MMO, if this has become the criterium then I can refer to the many multiplayer games that are 'themepark' (fully dev controlled content) and sell in the many millions and have huge populations playing them. I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's. WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues. But let's reverse it: EVE is obviously an anomaly in the MMO genre, because all other sandbox style MMO's come nowhere near its figures and stay far, far behind the figures of other top themepark MMO's.

If you think that GW2, another fruit of the themepark branch, won't be very successful, then feel free to believe that, I think that most on this site alone are willing to take you up on that bet.

That said, this whole discussion is lame as fuck: themepark as well as sandbox design have elements that are entertaining and appealing, the whole radical 'only sandbox can be successful' or 'only themepark can be successful' is seriously handicapped and a form of denial by radicals who see everything in black&white. So far themepark have shown to be the more successful style because many people seem to have a preference for that, but it doesn't mean that sandbox can't enjoy success too, or a combination of both.
  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/20/12 11:37:32 AM#130
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by smh_alot It's nice how you advice but then in the same post show how you yourself apparently don't follow your own advice >.>

 

Like how I didn't mention only WoW, but how Aion another themepark MMO made 200+ million each year, how other themepark MMO's still had hundreds of thousands of subs for several years at a stretch, and how the most anticipated MMORPG and looked forward to MMO is, yet again, another themepark MMO, GW2.

 

I guess you had no really good answer to that, which there isn't, that's why you avoid all of those which my former post was about -_-

 

And yes, GW2 IS a themepark MMO, definitely not a sandbox or even a hybrid, it's filled to bursting with dev proved content, it's just not a WoW copy, not all themepark MMO's are straight WoW copies.

1. Aion failed in teh West, i dont really know how can you be so badly informed. Its F2P in Europe, seems you missed that.

2. Contrary to your belief sandbox MMOs CAN have dev made content, in fact its mostly dev made content.

3. GW2 is not a themepark game. You dont seem to really grasp concept of themepark and sandbox.

4. You do not decide what success is or isnt. I can say "success is when MMO is just running" and proclaim Vanguard biggest success EVAR. You dont seem to grasp this concept either.

 

Aion was and is successful worldwide, some people look beyond their own little garden. If an MMORPG manages to achieve 200+ million dollars in revenues each year, that's a measure of success. And yes, GW2 is a themepark MMO, because you seem to despise WoWesque themepark MMO's with a passion and dote on GW2 doesn't mean it's any less a themepark MMO. GW2 is obviously not a sandbox MMO, it's not even a hybrid sandbox/themepark MMO as AA seems to be. It has all the traits of a themepark MMO, without being a WoW copy. Not all sandbox MMO's are exactly like UO (EVE for example), and not all themepark MMO's are exactly like WoW. Don't see what's so hard to understand about that, most people on this forum seem to be able to grasp that concept >.>
  User Deleted
6/20/12 11:39:32 AM#131
Originally posted by smh_alot Sigh. I thought we were talking MMO's here, Minecraft isn't an MMO, if this has become the criterium then I can refer to the many multiplayer games that are 'themepark' (fully dev controlled content) and sell in the many millions and have huge populations playing them. I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's. WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues. But let's reverse it: EVE is obviously an anomaly in the MMO genre, because all other sandbox style MMO's come nowhere near its figures and stay far, far behind the figures of other top themepark MMO's.

 

If you think that GW2, another fruit of the themepark branch, won't be very successful, then feel free to believe that, I think that most on this site alone are willing to take you up on that bet.

 

That said, this whole discussion is lame as fuck: themepark as well as sandbox design have elements that are entertaining and appealing, the whole radical 'only sandbox can be successful' or 'only themepark can be successful' is seriously handicapped and a form of denial by radicals who see everything in black&white. So far themepark have shown to be the more successful style because many people seem to have a preference for that, but it doesn't mean that sandbox can't enjoy success too, or a combination of both.

Name 1 AAA post WoW sandbox MMO that has failed as hard as all themepark WoW clones did.

And again you fail to grasp what is themepark and what is sanbox.

And, FYI, GW2 lot of sandbox AND themepark elements, but since you have shown you dont know much about GW2 in general ill leave you to your little fantasy.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

6/20/12 11:46:29 AM#132

They didn't have a target audience for this game. This was clear from all the interviews being done during beta as well as all the marketing that went on. One day they say they will cater to casual, the next it's all about the hardcore... there was talk of Star Wars fans, MMORPG fans, single player BW fans, etcetera. If you try to cater to everbody, you end up pleasing nobody.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  smh_alot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/10/12
Posts: 990

6/20/12 11:47:50 AM#133
@Mikarh: Lol. I bet I've been a fan of ANet and GW a lot longer than you and been in the MMO genre since the beginning. I'm well aware what GW2 offers and what not, and no, it's not a sandbox MMO and not a hybrid. If you try to sell that GW2 is some themepark/sandbox hybrid MMO merely for the simple reason that you like what GW2 offers, then I'm going to cut this discussion short. Heck, even most of the staunchest GW2 fans are aware that GW2 isn't a sandbox nor a hybrid but a themepark MMO. Only not a WoW clone type of themepark, but more of a next-gen themepark MMO.

Anyway, this discussion is useless. If you need to believe that GW2 is partly a sandbox MMO, feel free to do so. No sense in continuing this -_-
  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

6/20/12 11:53:10 AM#134
Originally posted by NaughtyP

They didn't have a target audience for this game. This was clear from all the interviews being done during beta as well as all the marketing that went on. One day they say they will cater to casual, the next it's all about the hardcore... there was talk of Star Wars fans, MMORPG fans, single player BW fans, etcetera. If you try to cater to everbody, you end up pleasing nobody.

there target audience was the wow community i thought.which,go figure why the game ended up flopping 6 months after release.considering just how great and mature the wow community is

 

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

6/20/12 11:56:52 AM#135
Originally posted by mikahr

And, FYI, GW2 lot of sandbox AND themepark elements, but since you have shown you dont know much about GW2 in general ill leave you to your little fantasy.

 Lol

Do me a favor since I'm stuck at work and need a good laugh. Go ahead and make a topic on the GW2 boards raving about GW2's sandbox elements. The replies should be pure comedy gold.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  User Deleted
6/20/12 12:09:56 PM#136
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Originally posted by mikahr

And, FYI, GW2 lot of sandbox AND themepark elements, but since you have shown you dont know much about GW2 in general ill leave you to your little fantasy.

 Lol

Do me a favor since I'm stuck at work and need a good laugh. Go ahead and make a topic on the GW2 boards raving about GW2's sandbox elements. The replies should be pure comedy gold.

Maybe its not sanbox elements YOU want, or whatever people think you are talking about. But ANet took a good lesson from sandbox games, something few people fail to grasp.

Originally posted by smh_alot
@Mikarh: Lol. I bet I've been a fan of ANet and GW a lot longer than you and been in the MMO genre since the beginning. I'm well aware what GW2 offers and what not, and no, it's not a sandbox MMO and not a hybrid. If you try to sell that GW2 is some themepark/sandbox hybrid MMO merely for the simple reason that you like what GW2 offers, then I'm going to cut this discussion short. Heck, even most of the staunchest GW2 fans are aware that GW2 isn't a sandbox nor a hybrid but a themepark MMO. Only not a WoW clone type of themepark, but more of a next-gen themepark MMO.

 

Anyway, this discussion is useless. If you need to believe that GW2 is partly a sandbox MMO, feel free to do so. No sense in continuing this -_-

Rightio, Bye.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

6/20/12 12:22:03 PM#137
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Originally posted by mikahr

And, FYI, GW2 lot of sandbox AND themepark elements, but since you have shown you dont know much about GW2 in general ill leave you to your little fantasy.

 Lol

Do me a favor since I'm stuck at work and need a good laugh. Go ahead and make a topic on the GW2 boards raving about GW2's sandbox elements. The replies should be pure comedy gold.

Maybe its not sanbox elements YOU want, or whatever people think you are talking about. But ANet took a good lesson from sandbox games, something few people fail to grasp.

 I'm actually really looking forward to the game. I just think saying GW2 has "lot of sandbox elements" is a ridiculous assertion.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  User Deleted
6/20/12 1:30:08 PM#138
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by Ghost12

*Facepalm*

So using your logic, anything with revenue for 3 years is successful?

Runescape was made in some kid's basement, and its considered the most successful FTP sandbox of all time. (Oh the irony that it will have more subs than TOR once TOR goes FTP LOL!!)

Minecraft was made with a fraction of what it took to make WoW, Aion and the rest of the big clones and has millions of players worldwide.

EVE's 300k population has stayed consistent and has made millions of dollars in revenues just like Aion.

Hell wait, UO, AC and the rest of the old school sandboxes can be considered successful by your definition as well.

WoW is an anomly. Face it, people have been trying to clone it, and its never happened. Never. Ever. And it never will happen.

On top of that, the MMORPG that on this and other sites is seen as the one with the most potential as a huge, major success is GW2, definitely not a sandbox MMO but a themepark MMORPG.

 

Once again I've heard this song and dance before. They said the same thing about that before WAR came out, (ITS LIKE WOW EXCEPT THE FOCUS IS ON RVR OMG!! TOO BAD THE RVR WAS MEAININGLESS AND BORING!)

AOC (OMG, we're going to have an edgy, non-themepark PvP focused game, (BUT WAIT, LETS MAKE IT A THEMEPARK AT LAST MINUTE CUZ THEMEPARKS ARE SUCCESFUL. THAT WONT MAKE THE PLAYER POPLUATION ANGRY, WILL IT? jUST ASK SOE WITH SWG?)

RIFT (OMG MULTI CLASSES!!!111 TOO BAD ITS BORING!! been there done this?)

 

The idea that themeparks will be the most successful is not the reality or the truth. The reality and the truth is that every time a themepark MMO is released, a huge marketing and hype campaign precedes it. A bunch of players join, and then afterwards discover about the hoax and then leave in droves.

It seems to me, with all due respect If I were to run a conning operation where I had to fool people into buying a product that looks good but actually sucks, the FIRST PEOPLE I WOULD MARKET TO WOULD BE MMO GAMERS. Its such a good odds of selling, I couldnt resist. (I'm sure not all of you are gullible )

 

Sigh. I thought we were talking MMO's here, Minecraft isn't an MMO, if this has become the criterium then I can refer to the many multiplayer games that are 'themepark' (fully dev controlled content) and sell in the many millions and have huge populations playing them. I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's. WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues. But let's reverse it: EVE is obviously an anomaly in the MMO genre, because all other sandbox style MMO's come nowhere near its figures and stay far, far behind the figures of other top themepark MMO's.

 

If you think that GW2, another fruit of the themepark branch, won't be very successful, then feel free to believe that, I think that most on this site alone are willing to take you up on that bet.

 

That said, this whole discussion is lame as fuck: themepark as well as sandbox design have elements that are entertaining and appealing, the whole radical 'only sandbox can be successful' or 'only themepark can be successful' is seriously handicapped and a form of denial by radicals who see everything in black&white. So far themepark have shown to be the more successful style because many people seem to have a preference for that, but it doesn't mean that sandbox can't enjoy success too, or a combination of both.

Lol.

MINECRAFT ISNT AN MMO?

THEN WHAT IS TOR?

I stated that themepark MMO's have been the most successful MMO's so far, often with revenues that far surpass that of sandbox MMO's.

WoW isn't an anomaly because other themepark MMO's had hundreds of thousands of subs/players too and dozens of millions revenues.

 

And other sandboxes have had hundreds of thousands of subs/players and dozens of millions of revenues. Wow IS AN ANOMLY, because no other MMO has ever, ever reached the subscription base of WoW, not even close, and not have matched the revenues of WoW. Just by you comparing WoW to other themeparks is ridiculous and destroys your credibility, as WoW's revenues are leagues higher than that of precious Aion, TOR, etc.

You are failing to recognize key points that both me and others have mentioned before.

 

I think that GW2 will be moderately successful. I think it will have a big marketed publicized launch. And, much like TOR, the hype will fizzle out and the population will drop. I am confident in my predictions because nearly every other themepark MMO had the exact same result. What are you basing your predictions on?

Emotion. Bias.

Themepark hasnt been shown to be the most successful style. Its just been the most used style.

 

These themeparks that you talk about selling in the millions, are only selling in the millions because 90% of the market is filled with them and players dont have much of a choice. Its either themepark or go home.

 

The ultimate irony of all of this, is that you are arguing Themeparks are the most successful when TOR the biggest hyped themepark of them all just lost over 80% of its servers. Even I'm astonished. How can you possibly still argue that is beyond me.

 

WoW is the most successful.

 

Themeparks are NOT.

  zakiyawow

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/10
Posts: 631

6/20/12 1:34:09 PM#139
  User Deleted
6/20/12 6:24:52 PM#140
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
 I'm actually really looking forward to the game. I just think saying GW2 has "lot of sandbox elements" is a ridiculous assertion.

You are entitled to thimk what you want. Calling GW2 themepark or sandbox is ridiculous because it blends elements of both.

Guys from ANet are smarther than what you give them credit for. My only hope is they will stick to original plan as its a solid one, their ideas and solutions are on the right track and some of them will probably be copied in other MMOs.

Topic is failure of SWTOR and shrinkage to almost minimun number of servers to retain server types. If people want to disband it as a proof, theres really not much to discuss.

WoW is an exeption, SWTOR is rule and ultimate proof (as all other games werent proof enough of what will happen).

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