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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMO's are a failed genre design and a massive scam

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78 posts found
  Ashen_X

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/10
Posts: 365

6/13/12 8:38:04 PM#21
Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

I honestly believe the MMO game genre as a whole isn't what it's cracked up to be. Way back in April 2006 an old ex-friend of mine wanted me to try out WoW, when I first played this game I was really amazed with it as I never played a top class MMO game before it, trying out my first character as a Gnome Warrior along with my ex-friend, those were fun times. But then things changed, as I wanted to play new characters, he didn't want to help me anymore and I ended up being a loner. I never liked the idea of playing with random people, some nice and most are douces and eventally it became nothing but douces. I played up until 2010 and the last 2 years on private servers and I still ended up being alone, always hoping my luck would change which it never did. In between these years I played other MMO's and they still had the same problem, I was still bored and lonely. Seriously how do you people put up with this? Joining guilds or groups is not for me because all people do is bitch or stay silent.

I was once talking to my hair dresser about WoW and he thinks WoW is a big con of a scam and I think he's right, what is the point of investing your time and money for a game you don't enjoy and I believe it's the same with all MMO's minus the heavy trolling WoW gets and instead are ghost towns.

Years ago WoW was king, nowhere days WoW is a dying horse and most people now prefer Team Fortress 2 and the ARMA 2 Mod game, DayZ, the latter of which has all the qualities of an MMO without being an MMO.

The MMO genre as a whole was really a failed game genre that was broken from the start of it's invention and I think I know why. People don't want to play a game that becomes a job or is a borefest, people want to have fun whenever they like and so I believe we've come to the death of the MMO genre.

The fact that you dont enjoy MMOs doesnt make them a scam.

Not being lonely in an MMO is not as much a matter of luck, as you put it, as it is perseverance. If you arent trying, it isnt happening.

I cannot stress this enough, if  you are bored and lonely it doesnt mean that someone else isnt having fun.

Finally, $15 per month is the cost of a single 90 minute movie (plus less than the price of a small popcorn). Not much of a scam for the number of hours available for play.

When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

6/13/12 8:40:44 PM#22

I think hairdressers are a big scam, what is the point of investing your time and money in getting a haircut you don't enjoy and I believe it's the same with all hairstyles.

  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

6/13/12 8:46:02 PM#23
I would agree with "themeparks are a failed design".

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  Danwarr

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/09
Posts: 190

"Prepare for Titanfall."

6/13/12 8:46:07 PM#24
Originally posted by Jakdstripper
Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

. But then things changed, as I wanted to play new characters, he didn't want to help me anymore and I ended up being a loner. I never liked the idea of playing with random people, some nice and most are douces and eventally it became nothing but douces..

you managed to lose the friend that actually introduced you to WoW by playing too much WoW ?!! (that's a first i've ever heard of )....and now everyone is a douche?

 

....you've got problems man.

like big social disfunctional problems. it's got nothing to do with games man. it's all you. sure a large majority of people online are douches but there are plenty of cool peps too, just like in RL. all it takes is some intelligent weeding.

 

 

WoW a scam?...how is selling entertainment a scam? that's all WoW (and all games) is, entertainment. if they entertain you then you pay, if you are not then you go pay for some other type of entertainment. if you feel scammed then stop paying. go pay for a movie, or a ride at the fair, or a lap dance.....you'll quickly learn just how inexpencive mmos are a form of entertainment.

QFT good sir.

OP: Find new friends to play with. They make any game fun.

Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  fundayz

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/14/10
Posts: 471

6/13/12 9:36:39 PM#25

When everyone seems like a douche but you, then maybe the problem isn't everyone...

  centkin

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 808

6/13/12 9:49:03 PM#26

Actually one element of everquest when it first came out that really wowed me was that you could play a game and sell items that you earned in the game to pay for your subscription and maybe have a little extra money -- and when you finished playing that you could sell your stuff -- as opposed to other game forms where it became worthless when you were done playing.

Of course this changed in general over time.  I mean I bought and sold (but mainly sold) things in asherons call and everquest back when it was legal to sell them on ebay, and it was kind of sad then that went away with the updated rules in those games, the participation by ebay of making it so you cant sell items for any online game, and the general change of how the games worked.

I mean in the old days you didnt have the asian farmers.  The people who actually sold a dwarven workboots or a 113 bow actually were players who got said.  When it was pushed underground it became the exact things that people did not want -- big companies that did the transactions from oversees.

Of course back then you could even buy items from vendors that other people had sold to them.  It was a different time -- and a time one can not go back to -- the genie has been let out of the bottle and even if some new game goes that path aka diablo 3 -- concerted efforts in countries with lower standards of living will make sure that your time is not worth much money in a game as a normal player.

 

  Terrorizor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 337

6/13/12 10:01:04 PM#27

I really wish that I wouldn't get banned for saying things like "How do you manage to see what you type when your head is shoved so far up your ass!"  or  "do you even realize the crap that you're spewing out, or do you have to keep your eyes closed because it stinks so bad!"

but back on topic...

I think it's natural that you feel this way OP, but its not the death of the MMO genre. Remember you played it for years before reaching this point. There are many new people trying them out for their first time.  This is just the death of MMO's for you.  Best thing I can recommend is to take two Midol and start a TF2 forum account in the morning.

  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

6/13/12 10:02:45 PM#28
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
I would agree with "themeparks are a failed design".

 

Totally agree with this. If my only option was playing themeparks I would have quit a looooong time ago.
  User Deleted
6/13/12 10:04:32 PM#29
Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

I honestly believe the MMO game genre as a whole isn't what it's cracked up to be. Way back in April 2006 an old ex-friend of mine wanted me to try out WoW, when I first played this game I was really amazed with it as I never played a top class MMO game before it, trying out my first character as a Gnome Warrior along with my ex-friend, those were fun times. But then things changed, as I wanted to play new characters, he didn't want to help me anymore and I ended up being a loner. I never liked the idea of playing with random people, some nice and most are douces and eventally it became nothing but douces. I played up until 2010 and the last 2 years on private servers and I still ended up being alone, always hoping my luck would change which it never did. In between these years I played other MMO's and they still had the same problem, I was still bored and lonely. Seriously how do you people put up with this? Joining guilds or groups is not for me because all people do is bitch or stay silent.

I was once talking to my hair dresser about WoW and he thinks WoW is a big con of a scam and I think he's right, what is the point of investing your time and money for a game you don't enjoy and I believe it's the same with all MMO's minus the heavy trolling WoW gets and instead are ghost towns.

Years ago WoW was king, nowhere days WoW is a dying horse and most people now prefer Team Fortress 2 and the ARMA 2 Mod game, DayZ, the latter of which has all the qualities of an MMO without being an MMO.

The MMO genre as a whole was really a failed game genre that was broken from the start of it's invention and I think I know why. People don't want to play a game that becomes a job or is a borefest, people want to have fun whenever they like and so I believe we've come to the death of the MMO genre.

The fact is that mmos are not failures or a scam as it is how you as the player play, and how you enjoy the game that determines alot of how you like the game or not. Since you hate having to deal wiht other players that you do not know you completely destroyed one part of the reason some people play the game, which is to feel part of a online persistent world filled with other players you can interact with. Saddly the trully annoying or problematic players that find ruining the play of other players is a fact ofboth life, and mmo playyet it does give a feel of realism to the game in that you will never meet only people that are nice or such in real life just like in mmos. Most of the time you will have two types of mmo players right now in mmos there is the soloer that well wants to be part of the game world an play alongside other players, and then you have well the speed leveler that wants to get to end game as fast as possible since to most that is where the game starts supposedly. Saddly you will not like hearing this and most likely will come to think it is just a spin, but you as a mmo player failed as playing the mmo is only part of the experince that makes them fun. The people around you, the enviorment, the quests, and just the interaction of playing with or against other players is part of playing mmos. I would say next time do get into talking via general chat, and looking for a good guild to get into (good as in meshes with you and with people you like, not as in top tier guild of the server unless you want to be a top raider.) if you try again an i would say you should. Try the secret world of Guild wars2 as these games wll be pretty fresh an also have none of the past for you like wow or such would.

 

Finding a guild or atleast a close nit group of online companions that you could play alongside, and talk with is a huge part of making the game much better for you as you take the problem players out of the equation compeltely almost. A good guild can prolong your enjoyment of mmos by months or years, also they can become actual rl friends if it is the right guild of people

  Terrorizor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 337

6/13/12 10:08:45 PM#30
Originally posted by Asuran24
... Try the secret world of Guild wars2 ...

that made me chuckle.

  User Deleted
6/13/12 10:11:23 PM#31
Originally posted by Terrorizor
Originally posted by Asuran24
... Try the secret world of Guild wars2 ...

that made me chuckle.

But it s such a secret world lol

  Homitu

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2044

6/13/12 10:11:44 PM#32

Right, nobody has ever had any fun in MMOs.  

  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

6/13/12 10:13:18 PM#33
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
I would agree with "themeparks are a failed design".

How do you figure?  The most popular MMOs have been themeparks.  Kind of a stretch to call that a "failed design."  There just happens to be an overabundance of them right now, many of which have done it wrong.  

  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

6/13/12 10:13:40 PM#34

I had 3 years of fun in WoW and 2 years of SWG.   Since then... not so much...

 

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  User Deleted
6/13/12 10:20:39 PM#35
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
I would agree with "themeparks are a failed design".

How do you figure?  The most popular MMOs have been themeparks.  Kind of a stretch to call that a "failed design."  There just happens to be an overabundance of them right now, many of which have done it wrong.  

Yeah i would agree there is a huge difference between somethign being a failed design, and somethign being oversaturated to the point where the population of players can no longer populate all of the games of that type effectively. It is just like with movies really as a style or genre of movie is seen as extremely popular that style or type gets over used, and alot of pretty low quality movies of the type appear too during this.  The same is true here in that themeparks are very successful or had been which caused the genre to be filled with them, and several dev's failed to creaate worthwhile themepark games, but the themepark model does not beecome failed for that fact.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17242

6/13/12 10:21:18 PM#36
Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

when I first played this game I was really amazed with it as I never played a top class MMO game before it, trying out my first character as a Gnome Warrior along with my ex-friend, those were fun times.

 

 

But then things changed, as I wanted to play new characters, he didn't want to help me anymore and I ended up being a loner.

I never liked the idea of playing with random people,

I played up until 2010 and the last 2 years on private servers and I still ended up being alone

, always hoping my luck would change which it never did.

In between these years I played other MMO's and they still had the same problem, I was still bored and lonely. Seriously how do you people put up with this? Joining guilds or groups is not for me because all people do is bitch or stay silent.

I hate to say it but the problem is with you. This is not to say mmo's don't have issues or that some people believe they are garbage. but Trol1 has it: you hate ot play alone, you hate to find new friends to play with. You enjoyed yourself when you had someone to play with.

I'm not a big believer (at all) at pinning problems on others and instead believe that the key to changing your life lies in you.

If you don't take the time to find the right guild then of course you are going to join a guild of people who "just want to join". joining a guild takes effort. It's not about answering some spam on mmo chat.

If you don't make the effort why should others?

I agree your friend is not much of a friend but that's about something else.

Either quit the mmo genre or make a real effort to find a small family oriented guild of decent people. Believe it or not it's possible.

  darker70

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 821

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

6/13/12 10:22:48 PM#37
Originally posted by RudyRaccoon
Originally posted by evolver1972

While I tend to agree that nowadays MMOs that require subscriptions to play are a rip off, I disagree that MMOs are a failed genre.  There are some great looking games coming down the pipeline very soon (or that have recently come out) that will keep the MMO genre firmly entrenched as a popular pastime.  Among these are Guild Wars 2, The Secret World, and Archeage.  Will any one of them, or a combination of them "kill" WoW?  That remains to be seen, but probably not.

 

It's true that some games have become "borefests" as you put it and the "clones" of those games will probably ultimately fail.  But the games that bring something truly innovative and fun to the genre will succeed.....and succeed well, I bet.

 

Edit:  Looked at your game history so removed the question about WoW being your only MMO experience.  However, from your post it seems that your main beef is with WoW.  You do realize that WoW is no longer indicative of the genre, right?

Well I think most people would say that WoW helped defy the genre as it is today. I suppose I'm still angry with the game.

Nope most people pre Wow will tell you Wow defined nothing it plagarised everything before it,Blizzard took a bit from every Mo to name a few DAOC,AC2,Rubies of Eventide.

There was nothing remotely original at launch they just promoted well and rode the WOW trademark,they also go lucky as broadband was ever popular and they then became the only viable option as Mo's in those days were pretty scarce.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6751

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

6/13/12 10:23:48 PM#38

It is the design of the games that fail because they are designed to solo,so you will NEVER get that feel of being a part of groups all the time and gaining steady friendships.Using Wow as an example,the whole design is based on you following those npc maakers all around zone to zone and there is absolutely no incentive or pressure to group up.So you spend 99% of the time soloing,there is not going to be that want to group attitude.

When a game example early years FFXI is designed to 90% of the time  group ,it becomes common place ,then people start statric groups to play steady with each other,become friends and learn from each other.

IMO WOW was a VERY bad design for this genre,because it was the game that the majority of MMO players played first.This is what they knew and grew up on and unless you were one of the few that actually played early FFXI you would have NEVER understood a grouping game.

EQ was no better,that game ,including EQ2 is more about dungeon looting,that is not grouping for the sake of the game and having fun with combat,that is just chasing chest loot.Once again the FFXI game did NOT cater to that,if you wanted the rarfe loot,it truly was RARE and took a long time to camp it.Nope the basis of the design was to enjoy your characters skills,adavancing your character over SEVERAL classes ,not just one and end game.

There is of course always the people that don't want to play with others,well all i can say is why play a MMO ONLINE to play by yourself?It makes no sense whatsoever.If you enjoy that type of game,then those soloists should be lobbying developers to make that type of game for soloers.What WOW tried to do is make a superficial game,the solo part was really simple ,then  copy that EQ dungeon looting.You played ONLY one class so character developement was far below what FFXI offered for skills and advancement.

Choice is a good thing,i am not about to say solo or MMO is better,they EACH have their place,we have ALL played solo rpg's and MMO rpg's.The only issue i have is the CHOICE is SHALLOW,FFXI has changed so now ALL the games are designed to solo and random group up for loot.That gives us ZERO choice which is why so many are not happy with game design right now.

Don't beleive me??Name ONE game that doesn't use hand holding markers over npc heads?Markers on maps?XP and loot tied to those marker quests?heck it's all designed to be a simple solofest.

 

 

 

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  rznkain

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/04
Posts: 563

6/13/12 10:25:39 PM#39
Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

I honestly believe the MMO game genre as a whole isn't what it's cracked up to be. Way back in April 2006 an old ex-friend of mine wanted me to try out WoW, when I first played this game I was really amazed with it as I never played a top class MMO game before it, trying out my first character as a Gnome Warrior along with my ex-friend, those were fun times. But then things changed, as I wanted to play new characters, he didn't want to help me anymore and I ended up being a loner. I never liked the idea of playing with random people, some nice and most are douces and eventally it became nothing but douces. I played up until 2010 and the last 2 years on private servers and I still ended up being alone, always hoping my luck would change which it never did. In between these years I played other MMO's and they still had the same problem, I was still bored and lonely. Seriously how do you people put up with this? Joining guilds or groups is not for me because all people do is bitch or stay silent.

I was once talking to my hair dresser about WoW and he thinks WoW is a big con of a scam and I think he's right, what is the point of investing your time and money for a game you don't enjoy and I believe it's the same with all MMO's minus the heavy trolling WoW gets and instead are ghost towns.

Years ago WoW was king, nowhere days WoW is a dying horse and most people now prefer Team Fortress 2 and the ARMA 2 Mod game, DayZ, the latter of which has all the qualities of an MMO without being an MMO.

The MMO genre as a whole was really a failed game genre that was broken from the start of it's invention and I think I know why. People don't want to play a game that becomes a job or is a borefest, people want to have fun whenever they like and so I believe we've come to the death of the MMO genre.


 Thank you for your insight what gaming company do you work for and what games have you created and or devloped?

  Brenelael

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Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3953

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

6/13/12 10:44:59 PM#40

MMOs just aren't for you. The only thing that makes MMOs unique among gaming genres is the community aspects and in your post it's the one aspect you shut out totally. While I personally think the MMO genre is in trouble because game developers have lost focus on the community aspect it's far from dieing. A game like WOW is an aging animal and while some servers may seem dead it's because 80% of the population are at level cap doing the gear grind. lower level areas are most probably sparsely populated on these servers.

 

While some view things such as auction houses, dungeon finders, instanced content, solo content and many more features of modern MMOs a boon I personally see them as what is bringing this genre down as a whole. These features take people out of the community and leave them little reason to interact with other players other than small talk. These features are what are taking the community aspect out of the modern MMO and without a thriving community a MMO is nothing more than a piss poor single player game that happens to have other people running around in it.

 

Bren

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beat();
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