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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Do FPS players really want an MMO? 

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67 posts found
  Bigbadwlf

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/21/12
Posts: 109

 
OP  6/13/12 12:05:26 PM#1

So there's a lot of new MMOFPSes coming out, Dust 514, Defiance, Planetside 2 and they all look exciting to me.  But my question is this:  Is there an actual demands for these sort of games? I can see why an MMOFPS would be a good idea:  new PvP maps, more weapons and more frequent balance patches are necessary for most fps games to sustain a community. However this has been covered pretty well with DLC.

 

MMORPGs make a lot more sense. Huge titles like Final Fantasy, KOTOR, and Elder Scrolls series traditionally take a very long time to release their next iteration. Also these are largely single player experiences.  An MMO version with persistent characters, online multiplayer, and frequent content updates of their favorite IP are what gamers dreamed of. 

 

FPS players however seem to be less interested in persistent characters and multiplayer updates, and more towards a standardized competitive format or E-Sports.  CoD and BF3 communities would probably value a year long PvP tournament with a million dollar prize pool then a MMOFPS version of the same game that would take 20+ million dollars to produce. 

 

What do you think? Do you think big budget MMOFPS are the future of the FPS genre and these new mmos will capture the hearts of the FPS communities? Or do you feel that clans will stick to the regular games + DLC + more E-Sports tournaments?

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

6/13/12 12:34:36 PM#2

     I certainly think there is a place for them and that most of them will do pretty well.....Personally I'd much rather play a FPS on the computer than on a console, but thats just me......

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5180

6/13/12 12:35:46 PM#3

Answer to OP:

Yes

oh and you forgot Darkfall and Mortal Online.

Correlation does not imply causation

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

6/13/12 12:41:05 PM#4

I really don't see what the persistent world add, in term of fun value, to the FPS genre.

There are already RPG elements in many FPS, and so there is already persistencies for the characters. Even if people want longer battles, a persistent world is NOT required to do that. You can always have longer play session.

 

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3094

6/13/12 12:41:35 PM#5

There's demand for them, but I fear they're not really MMORPGs.  The problem with FPS and MMOFPS games is that there isn't a sense of community.  Which real MMORPGs are all about.  I think alot of people that play MMOs try to play them the same way as you do a FPS or RPG.  That's why so many people play an MMO solo.  That's why every MMO that comes out, people get hyped up for it, then hate it.  It's not a solo game, if you play an MMO solo, it will ruin it.  swtor, wow, lotor, and really any MMO is the worst game ever made if you play it solo.  I hate to tell people, but if you play an MMO solo, you're not an MMO player.  You aren't going to like it, and you'll end up on forums ranting about how bad this or that MMO is.  That's what the majority of MMO forums have become.  WoW played a major part in this.  It brought alot of RTS players into the MMO world.  The problem is in an RTS there's a clear set goal, you're trying to achieve.  In MMOs there is no goal!  I don't know how many times I have to tell people this, but MMOs have no endgame!  Yes there is a level cap, and there is an end to the content and gear, but MMOs aren't about your level or gear.  MMOs (and what makes them stand apart from other games) is the community.

 

MMOFPS games have a lack of communication.  I played the original planetside, I got maybe two players talking an hour, if i'm lucky.  The only talking you get in MMOFPS games is "defend this" or "attack this".  You don't get the immersion you do in traditional MMOs, which is what an MMO is all about.

  TruthXHurts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1640

I am here to chew bubblegum and to kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum!

6/13/12 12:42:24 PM#6

I think DayZ and the Arma 2 RP life mods show that FPS players do appreciate a persistent world. City Life 2 mod has been a more rewarding MMO experience than 99% of the actual mmo's I have played in recent years.

"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

6/13/12 12:47:35 PM#7

If you've been playing FPS games in recent years, you will see that the market has evolved to adding player progression and some games now, like Tribes, have cash shops.

It seems like a logical step for some players to walk into an MMOFPS game, should a good one come along, and some will likely also translate over to MMORPG's.  Day Z is very much an RPG game, and if you consider the individual servers as a type of instanced zones like I do, and 200,000 users (10,000 concurrent) , then there is your "MMO".  That game is a bit of a crossover, and should someone come along and create an MMORPG very much like it, I think you would have a whole new group of people playing MMO games.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  MarL

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/03
Posts: 607

6/13/12 1:46:04 PM#8

I basically only play mmofps, or some varient.

Off the top of my head ive played 10six, endlessages, neocron, planetside, wwiionline,  fomk, and  apb.

ive played other mmofps varients like global agenda, crimecraft, and tabula rasa, but didnt care much for them.

 

The only regular fps ive played in last few years is tribes.....i get bored very quickly with games like call of duty or battlefield.

My real wish is for there to be a mmofps where clans own bases and fight to protect them.(kinda like 10six) Being able to design and customize a base makes every battle different, and extra stuff to do when your not trying to dominate the world. Economy, politics, or world territory could add alot to a regular fps.(theres no need to add levels in any game)

 

Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7

  maji

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1885

6/13/12 2:18:26 PM#9

I think that the first person perspective offers a higher level of immersion.

There is a difference if you look through a characters eyes, or see the character from 10m behind. Whether you have to turn around to see something behind you, or just rotate the camera. Whether you see some grass leaves in front of you, when you lie down, or you just see the little character do some animation.

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  davestr1zl

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/11
Posts: 220

6/13/12 2:31:21 PM#10
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I really don't see what the persistent world adds, in term of fun value, to the FPS genre.

There are already RPG elements in many FPS, and so there is already persistencies for the characters. Even if people want longer battles, a persistent world is NOT required to do that. You can always have longer play session.

 

Just out of interest, what do you see a persistent world adding, in terms of fun value, to the MMO genre? In my opinion everything that it adds to one it also adds to the other.

  agriffin85

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 67

6/13/12 2:37:15 PM#11

Honestly, I feel you are all looking at this from the wrong perspective.  I keep seein posts like "A persisent world brings nothing to the FPS genre."

In my mind it's not what a MMO world brings to FPS's, it's what FPS's bring to an MMO world.  As an MMO player I love the idea of variation, and I'm very good at FPS games but I don't stay interested in them long because of their shallow nature.  I for one am happy to see an MMO with FPS elements because I can still be in a persistent world and enjoy twitch based gameplay.

I think most of the demand comes from people like me.  People who shy away from FPS's not because they're bad at them or don't like twitch gaming but because they offer little in prolonged gameplay.  I played and enjoyed cs1.6, battlefield 2 (mostly for the pioloting, halo (mostly for the co-op campain, Quake (for the multiplayer), Doom (for the atmosphere) but they would not hold my interest as long as UO,EQ,EQ2,WoW,etc.

Mixing the genre's is perfect for me because as an MMO minded player who enjoys twitch gaming, it will hopefully encourage me to play more having the best of both worlds in one game.

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

6/13/12 2:45:22 PM#12

Can't say whether they want an MMOFPS ( personally I don't like shooters) but I believe they do.

The main question, however, is not whether they want one, but whether they will pay subscriptions or cash-shop items for one. That's the crucial point. Most of the industry has been sceptical about this - and that's probably the reason why few MMO shooters came out and the few that got released had to shut-down rather soon.

There are dozens (if not more) online shooters without subscription on the market. Will the players continue to play them or will they pay for a persistent world? Big question mark.

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  davestr1zl

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/11
Posts: 220

6/13/12 2:52:24 PM#13
Originally posted by Larsa

Can't say whether they want an MMOFPS ( personally I don't like shooters) but I believe they do.

The main question, however, is not whether they want one, but whether they will pay subscriptions or cash-shop items for one. That's the crucial point. Most of the industry has been sceptical about this - and that's probably the reason why few MMO shooters came out and the few that got released had to shut-down rather soon.

There are dozens (if not more) online shooters without subscription on the market. Will the players continue to play them or will they pay for a persistent world? Big question mark.

COD / Battlefield both have premium subscription-based services now, with millions of players paying for them. It doesnt seem like too much of a stretch in the slightest for people to pay subscriptions for MMOFPS' imo (not that a subscription is required in the slightest for one to be profitable).

  MarL

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/03
Posts: 607

6/13/12 3:04:24 PM#14
Originally posted by davestr1zl
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I really don't see what the persistent world adds, in term of fun value, to the FPS genre.

There are already RPG elements in many FPS, and so there is already persistencies for the characters. Even if people want longer battles, a persistent world is NOT required to do that. You can always have longer play session.

 

Just out of interest, what do you see a persistent world adding, in terms of fun value, to the MMO genre? In my opinion everything that it adds to one it also adds to the other.

Very good point! I imagine that when mmo rpgs came out people would say that same thing about them.

 

I dont think a subscription is the way to go, I personally would pay one( and have for many years) , but i think going f2p with non combat cash shop items is the way to go. If its a full loot mmofps then I would agree with combat paid items that way all can obtain them. 10six which was a full loot mmofps/rts had items that could only be attained from buying random loot boxes for a buck, the unique items had a durabilty of 5-10 and anyone could pick up a dead one. I thought that system was fair since you didnt know which one if any you would get and there was enough of them that you could buy them from players with ingame cash.

Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7

  Inf666

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 508

6/13/12 3:07:44 PM#15

A lot of you seem to be biased against FPS players. As one of them (long time counter-strike player) I have to protest. I am looking forward to any MMOFPS that gets released and am playing TERA right now (kinda FPS like). FPS players are not really solo players as many think. For FPS players the social interaction occurs inside their team just in the same way as it is in a MMO guild. Unluckily the common FPS gaming platform does not enable much of visible inter-team communication in-game. This happens in forums outside of the game. FPS players can be very reliable guild mates especially if they have a goal they want to reach together with their team / guild.

As for the FPS view: I feel far more comfortable in this view. The game allowing me to move, strafe, jump, dodge and aim in the usual FPS style increases my immersion far more than a third person view ever could. I also think that the FPS view allows for more difficult PvE as the FPS style is more exact and promotes player skill far more. For me the TERA FPS mechanism is very entertaining. I can hardly understand why it is rejected by so many common MMO players. Even GW2 is moving in that direction though not as much as I would like.

So as an FPS player I say: YES, we want more MMOFPS games. We want to compete in a persistent world using our FPS skills. We want to overcome the difficult PvE obstacles the game provides just like anyone else. We want to achieve goals together with our team just as much as you want to with your guild. Trust me, once you have gotten used to the FPS view it will be hard to go back.

---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5979

6/13/12 3:08:43 PM#16

Yes I want a MMOFPS.

 

BTW

Dust 514 isnt a MMO, its a OFPS. It uses Lobbies instead of Persistent world similar to MAG. Nothing about the gameplay is larger scale than MAG is.

 

But I am a big fan of MAG. But I want even larger scale than 64. I want full on 24/7 Battles. CoD suppose to be a war game, but how is it war with only 18 people at a time in battle?

thats the issue I have with it. MAG feels like a Wargame, since its battles everywhere due to the large multiplayer mass. But there isnt a world to fight over. Only points of a faction graph. thats it. That doesnt motivate me to play.

  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 684

6/13/12 3:56:03 PM#17
Originally posted by Bigbadwlf

So there's a lot of new MMOFPSes coming out, Dust 514, Defiance, Planetside 2 and they all look exciting to me.  But my question is this:  Is there an actual demands for these sort of games? I can see why an MMOFPS would be a good idea:  new PvP maps, more weapons and more frequent balance patches are necessary for most fps games to sustain a community. However this has been covered pretty well with DLC.

 

MMORPGs make a lot more sense. Huge titles like Final Fantasy, KOTOR, and Elder Scrolls series traditionally take a very long time to release their next iteration. Also these are largely single player experiences.  An MMO version with persistent characters, online multiplayer, and frequent content updates of their favorite IP are what gamers dreamed of. 

 

FPS players however seem to be less interested in persistent characters and multiplayer updates, and more towards a standardized competitive format or E-Sports.  CoD and BF3 communities would probably value a year long PvP tournament with a million dollar prize pool then a MMOFPS version of the same game that would take 20+ million dollars to produce. 

 

What do you think? Do you think big budget MMOFPS are the future of the FPS genre and these new mmos will capture the hearts of the FPS communities? Or do you feel that clans will stick to the regular games + DLC + more E-Sports tournaments?

Not being a big FPS fan, I'm not sure....but what I have found interesting is that MMORPGs are moving more toward the kind of gamer that would frequent a FPS game.

If you look at a FPS game from a more fundamental level, its a genere that lends itself to casual gamers. (Not saying there aren't hardcore players / guilds that put in 4+ hrs a day) 

  • The game exists in short 15-30 minute matches...perfect for jumping in and jumping out for a quick entertainment fix. 
  • The matches do not require pre-made groups, making it easier for casual gamers that don't have time to commit to long term in-game relationships. 
  • There isn't much perpetual about character or avatar development over time....so casual gamers don't have to spend time "Keeping up with the Jones'" to stay competitive. 
  • FPS games are rather linear.  Your modus operandi is to shoot the enemy in the face...with some gimmick objective tied on the back end.  This takes out a lof of planning & figuring of "what to do" for a casual gamer that just wants to log in and GO.
As a MMO fan, I've seen similar trends happening in the MMO space to suit a larger player base (casual gamers)
  • Play cycles have been shortened to around 30 minute activities (dungeon runs, daily quest runs, PvP Scenario runs), which are GREAT for casual gamers that have other priorities
  • Dungeon & PvP Scenario runs, and questing in general, do not require pre-made groups...making easier for casual gamers that don't have time for long term in-game relationships
  • Advancing your avatar (levels & gear upgrades) has been accellerated to mitigate the perpetual & competitive nature of MMOs....again helping out casuals who only have a limitied time available to play
  • MMOs have become more and more linear, streamlining the MMO experience into not much more than a hack n' slash fest.....again, taking out a lot of planning & figuring of "what to do"
 
So as MMOs become more casual, they become more compatable with the generic FPS gamer.  On top of that, you can be sure that the guys with Call of Duty, and Battlefield would LOVE to slap on a monthly fee ontop of that box sale.
  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

6/13/12 3:58:10 PM#18

Well PS2 is a open persistant world which is the defintion of a MMO. So I look at it as PS2 is more a MMO than the games today that claim to be MMOs but are all zoned out and instance.

  Carl132p

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/06
Posts: 558

6/13/12 4:04:53 PM#19
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Answer to OP:

Yes

oh and you forgot Darkfall and Mortal Online.

These are neither mmofps nor worthy of mention in any discussion.

  Mexorilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/12
Posts: 316

6/13/12 4:52:35 PM#20
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Yes I want a MMOFPS.

 

BTW

Dust 514 isnt a MMO, its a OFPS. It uses Lobbies instead of Persistent world similar to MAG. Nothing about the gameplay is larger scale than MAG is.

 

But I am a big fan of MAG. But I want even larger scale than 64. I want full on 24/7 Battles. CoD suppose to be a war game, but how is it war with only 18 people at a time in battle?

thats the issue I have with it. MAG feels like a Wargame, since its battles everywhere due to the large multiplayer mass. But there isnt a world to fight over. Only points of a faction graph. thats it. That doesnt motivate me to play.

World of Warplanes,  World of Tanks,  and World of Battleships are eventually going to evolve into 24/7 persistant warfare.  it will be epic.

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