Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

A lot of these 'indie' MMO projects popping up on Kickstarter are going to be the cause of some serious changes in the site's policies or rules, simply because many of them combine two dangerous elements

• people who don't know what they are getting themselves into and thus do not realize they lack the skills/knowledge to accomplish their task
• gullible people blinded by hope funding these projects

 

It's already started and it's going to get worse as more and more people download a free or cheap MMO kit and set out to create the ultimate MMO that, of course, hasn't been made because the professional studios with 200-300 employees and a dozen titles to their name are just all lazy and afraid of risk. Their features lists read like wishlists, and when 

What's worse, is the people throwing money at projects that have a dozen red flags to begin with are going to fault everyone anyone but the guys that actually promised the sun, took the money and then couldn't deliver.  

Obviously I'm not talking about all MMO project or even the majority of them. There are enough, however, with nothing but a promise and a prayer... and lots of people buying into it. 

 

Kickstarter is both the best and the worst thing to happen to the 'indie' MMO scene. The horrible part about it is the amount of money that will be wasted over the year or so it takes before either more stringent rules are in place or enough people get burnt to actually start using history and logic instead of hope as their deciding factors when it comes to backing projects. 

Yeah so far we are at the golden stage with the Kickstarter revolution but as you say there will come a point when something will happen, but that is what Kickstarter is all about in the end you are gambleing on something that you may be passionate about and it could fail but if that project is a success only time will tell but i've every faith Repop will be.

I've been through Kickstarter and some of the projects  that are funded would get laughed at by any serious banker or investor and i don't mean Mo's there is every subject under the sun,and yes there will be a pitch that will one day turn sour as of now nothing really has,now i'm not knocking Pathfinder but there is no way in hell i would back anything without some tangible proof  and definately not from a tech demo but the amount they have got is staggering.

With for example Repop we have seen a rough Alpha take shape and various vids to show various features,monthly updates constant communication by devs and community members who have recently joined the team in various capacities,but i have not just seen their pitch i was in early doors and have seen it's progression as a whole and that includes community and the takeing on board fresh team members  from the community I myself prefer the backseat support role and i have been noticed  for this,so i speak from being a Kickstarter novice about Repop cause that's the only thing i've ever backed Kickstarter wise as i'm not that much of a risk taker in real life unlesss you count the lotto 

Originally posted by darker70

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

A lot of these 'indie' MMO projects popping up on Kickstarter are going to be the cause of some serious changes in the site's policies or rules, simply because many of them combine two dangerous elements

• people who don't know what they are getting themselves into and thus do not realize they lack the skills/knowledge to accomplish their task
• gullible people blinded by hope funding these projects

 

It's already started and it's going to get worse as more and more people download a free or cheap MMO kit and set out to create the ultimate MMO that, of course, hasn't been made because the professional studios with 200-300 employees and a dozen titles to their name are just all lazy and afraid of risk. Their features lists read like wishlists, and when 

What's worse, is the people throwing money at projects that have a dozen red flags to begin with are going to fault everyone anyone but the guys that actually promised the sun, took the money and then couldn't deliver.  

Obviously I'm not talking about all MMO project or even the majority of them. There are enough, however, with nothing but a promise and a prayer... and lots of people buying into it. 

 

Kickstarter is both the best and the worst thing to happen to the 'indie' MMO scene. The horrible part about it is the amount of money that will be wasted over the year or so it takes before either more stringent rules are in place or enough people get burnt to actually start using history and logic instead of hope as their deciding factors when it comes to backing projects. 

 

Yeah so far we are at the golden stage with the Kickstarter revolution but as you say there will come a point when something will happen, but that is what Kickstarter is all about in the end you are gambleing on something that you may be passionate about and it could fail but if that project is a success only time will tell but i've every faith Repop will be.

I've been through Kickstarter and some of the projects  that are funded would get laughed at by any serious banker or investor and i don't mean Mo's there is every subject under the sun,and yes there will be a pitch that will one day turn sour as of now nothing really has,now i'm not knocking Pathfinder but there is no way in hell i would back anything without some tangible proof  and definately not from a tech demo but the amount they have got is staggering.

With for example Repop we have seen a rough Alpha take shape and various vids to show various features,monthly updates constant communication by devs and community members who have recently joined the team in various capacities,but i have not just seen their pitch i was in early doors and have seen it's progression as a whole and that includes community and the takeing on board fresh team members  from the community I myself prefer the backseat support role and i have been noticed  for this,so i speak from being a Kickstarter novice about Repop cause that's the only thing i've ever backed Kickstarter wise as i'm not that much of a risk taker in real life unlesss you count the lotto 

The Repop is an interesting project. Normally, if an MMO project doesn't have any industry people on the team, that's a red flag right there. The Repop team doesn't have any titles to their name but what they do have is

• four years already invested in the project
• functioning core game play
• a realistic and achievable feature list
• great interaction with the community

They have all the trappings of a project that is on track and doable. As a result, they're taken seriously and they're getting noticed. The Repop is in great contrast to most of the projects that we've seen from garage teams lately.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by darker70

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

A lot of these 'indie' MMO projects popping up on Kickstarter are going to be the cause of some serious changes in the site's policies or rules, simply because many of them combine two dangerous elements

• people who don't know what they are getting themselves into and thus do not realize they lack the skills/knowledge to accomplish their task
• gullible people blinded by hope funding these projects

 

It's already started and it's going to get worse as more and more people download a free or cheap MMO kit and set out to create the ultimate MMO that, of course, hasn't been made because the professional studios with 200-300 employees and a dozen titles to their name are just all lazy and afraid of risk. Their features lists read like wishlists, and when 

What's worse, is the people throwing money at projects that have a dozen red flags to begin with are going to fault everyone anyone but the guys that actually promised the sun, took the money and then couldn't deliver.  

Obviously I'm not talking about all MMO project or even the majority of them. There are enough, however, with nothing but a promise and a prayer... and lots of people buying into it. 

 

Kickstarter is both the best and the worst thing to happen to the 'indie' MMO scene. The horrible part about it is the amount of money that will be wasted over the year or so it takes before either more stringent rules are in place or enough people get burnt to actually start using history and logic instead of hope as their deciding factors when it comes to backing projects. 

 

Yeah so far we are at the golden stage with the Kickstarter revolution but as you say there will come a point when something will happen, but that is what Kickstarter is all about in the end you are gambleing on something that you may be passionate about and it could fail but if that project is a success only time will tell but i've every faith Repop will be.

I've been through Kickstarter and some of the projects  that are funded would get laughed at by any serious banker or investor and i don't mean Mo's there is every subject under the sun,and yes there will be a pitch that will one day turn sour as of now nothing really has,now i'm not knocking Pathfinder but there is no way in hell i would back anything without some tangible proof  and definately not from a tech demo but the amount they have got is staggering.

With for example Repop we have seen a rough Alpha take shape and various vids to show various features,monthly updates constant communication by devs and community members who have recently joined the team in various capacities,but i have not just seen their pitch i was in early doors and have seen it's progression as a whole and that includes community and the takeing on board fresh team members  from the community I myself prefer the backseat support role and i have been noticed  for this,so i speak from being a Kickstarter novice about Repop cause that's the only thing i've ever backed Kickstarter wise as i'm not that much of a risk taker in real life unlesss you count the lotto 

 

The Repop is an interesting project. Normally, if an MMO project doesn't have any industry people on the team, that's a red flag right there. The Repop team doesn't have any titles to their name but what they do have is

• four years already invested in the project
• functioning core game play
• a realistic and achievable feature list
• great interaction with the community

They have all the trappings of a project that is on track and doable. As a result, they're taken seriously and they're getting noticed. The Repop is in great contrast to most of the projects that we've seen from garage teams lately.

 

Thanks Loktofeit,great post  

 

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

A lot of these 'indie' MMO projects popping up on Kickstarter are going to be the cause of some serious changes in the site's policies or rules, simply because many of them combine two dangerous elements

• people who don't know what they are getting themselves into and thus do not realize they lack the skills/knowledge to accomplish their task
• gullible people blinded by hope funding these projects

 

It's already started and it's going to get worse as more and more people download a free or cheap MMO kit and set out to create the ultimate MMO that, of course, hasn't been made because the professional studios with 200-300 employees and a dozen titles to their name are just all lazy and afraid of risk. Their features lists read like wishlists, and when 

What's worse, is the people throwing money at projects that have a dozen red flags to begin with are going to fault everyone anyone but the guys that actually promised the sun, took the money and then couldn't deliver.  

Obviously I'm not talking about all MMO project or even the majority of them. There are enough, however, with nothing but a promise and a prayer... and lots of people buying into it. 

 

Kickstarter is both the best and the worst thing to happen to the 'indie' MMO scene. The horrible part about it is the amount of money that will be wasted over the year or so it takes before either more stringent rules are in place or enough people get burnt to actually start using history and logic instead of hope as their deciding factors when it comes to backing projects. 

I think Kickstarter as an effective money making tool in and of itself shows how fed up with the same old thing we as gamers are to begin with. This is doubly so for MMO gamers.

Also, you're kind of acting like people are throwing their life savings at these projects which is simply not true. I don't know what the median donation is for these things but I'm betting its a lot closer to 10$ than 10,000$.

When it all boils down to it, whether these games are good, bad, failures or sleeper blockbuster hits, they are adding diversity to an otherwise stagnant gaming industry, which is exactly what this thread is (supposed to be) about. 

I can't even begin to comprehend how this could possibly ever be a bad thing.

Originally posted by darker70

Originally posted by Grixxitt

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by XAPGames

My estimation:

100 MMOs on kickstarter

• 1 makes it huge big.
• 9 make a profit after release and can continue development.
• 10 make it to release and struggle.
• 80 don't make it to release (not enough funding or management issues).

 

 

Overall impact?  Minimal except in rare cases.

 

Savior of the genre?  One can only hope.

Your estimation, IMHO, is way optimistics. I highly doubt there will even be 1 release. Kickstarter is just not equiped to get the large investment needed for a MMO.

Heck, has any kickstart MMO project even get to a point with a demo, not to mention a alpha?

Well seeing as how the first MMO to be funded from Kickstarter was just a few months ago, and the median development time of an MMO project is upwards of 4 years.....that's a pretty fucking stupid question

Grixxitt i'm realing likeing your style u just say what u mean !,

How on earth can that question come about what do you think Repop is vapourware?

Thank you sir, pleasure to meet you (and everyone else)

---

Originally posted by Loktofeit

A lot of these 'indie' MMO projects popping up on Kickstarter are going to be the cause of some serious changes in the site's policies or rules, simply because many of them combine two dangerous elements

---

Changes? Why would they do that? That is what Kickstarter is based on...

The more projects(regardless whether can be pulled off or not) and gullible people, the better - more money for Kickstarter.

I fail to see why any of the haters GAF what some random person on the internet does with their own $10??

I honestly think you people are too harsh, At least someone is trying to get mmo's out of its fast world of warcraft caused death spiral. Only mmorpg in recent years that actually looked decent to me has been phantasy star online 2, and thats because its not just a biliant world of warcraft clone with most of the game taken from it and reskinned like gw, tera. rift, swtor etc is. Also before you argue with me about Tera, take away tera's combat or when the combat gets old and all you have left is just another wow clone.

Originally posted by rothbard

I fail to see why any of the haters GAF what some random person on the internet does with their own $10??

Then you fail to understand human nature. No one cares about your $10 but they get enjoyment out of showing what an idiot you are spending it on wishful thinking.

In fact, it will be MORE FUN if you spend $100 instead of $10 because they can make more fun out of people wasting $100 instead of $10.

OBVIOUSLY no one is changing anyone's mind on the internet. It is just a verbal jousting game.

Originally posted by Gdemami

---

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

A lot of these 'indie' MMO projects popping up on Kickstarter are going to be the cause of some serious changes in the site's policies or rules, simply because many of them combine two dangerous elements

---

Changes? Why would they do that? That is what Kickstarter is based on...

The more projects(regardless whether can be pulled off or not) and gullible people, the better - more money for Kickstarter.

I agree, however the more people get burnt by bad projects, the less likely they are to back the ones that aren't just a half-assed bag of empty promises. So that means less money for Kickstarter over time if they don't become more stringent on their policies.

Originally posted by rothbard

I fail to see why any of the haters GAF what some random person on the internet does with their own $10??

I think they're just angry that the 10$ in question isn't going to Blizzard or EA

---

Originally posted by Loktofeit

I agree, however the more people get burnt by bad projects, the less likely they are to back the ones that aren't just a half-assed bag of empty promises. So that means less money for Kickstarter over time if they don't become more stringent on their policies.

---

People either learn or you put protective rules in place instead. The result is the same.

But somehow I doubt that people become responsible with their money...and Kickstarter would not be the first nor last one taking advantage of desipience in money spending...

No one is getting "burnt" by throwing away 20 USD. People throw away small amounts every day for lottery, donations, all sorts of trinkets, etc. and nothing seems to stop them from doing it again and again and Kickstarter will be no difference.

It is a clever and evil business the guys got there. Kudos.

Originally posted by Gdemami

---

Originally posted by Loktofeit

I agree, however the more people get burnt by bad projects, the less likely they are to back the ones that aren't just a half-assed bag of empty promises. So that means less money for Kickstarter over time if they don't become more stringent on their policies.

People either learn or you put protective rules in place instead. The result is the same.

But somehow I doubt that people become responsible with their money...and Kickstarter would not be the first nor last one taking advantage of desipience in money spending...

No one is getting "burnt" by throwing away 20 USD. People throw away small amounts every day for lottery, donations, all sorts of trinkets, etc. and nothing seems to stop them from doing it again and again and Kickstarter will be no difference.

It is a clever and evil business the guys got there. Kudos.

The guy throwing away 20 or 30 dollars here and there isn't the concern. That's quarters in a fountain - they're more than likely doing it for the fun and the money is inconsequential. It's when the big spenders start to move away that it negatively affects the projects that could have otherwise benefitted from it. To use The Repop as an example, half the money pledged is by 10% of the backers. Maybe that 10% already knows which to fund and which are duds, so maybe it's not an issue. Who knows. 

I have backed several projects on KS but not an MMO yet as I haven't found an MMO that I like.

Do people really 'care' about $25 for a KS project?

I spend more on food/coffee at work everyday.

It is interesting to see people put their money on what they want to see made though.

---

Originally posted by Loktofeit

The guy throwing away 20 or 30 dollars here and there isn't the concern. That's quarters in a fountain - they're more than likely doing it for the fun and the money is inconsequential. It's when the big spenders start to move away that it negatively affects the projects that could have otherwise benefitted from it. To use The Repop as an example, half the money pledged is by 10% of the backers. Maybe that 10% already knows which to fund and which are duds, so maybe it's not an issue. Who knows. 
 

---

The thing is, people spending larger amounts are unlikely to be so careless where they money go.

So you have the group that "never learns" and just spend disposable money, and then those who are "serious" about funding and those will be picky where they money go.

Originally posted by Gdemami

---

Originally posted by Loktofeit

The guy throwing away 20 or 30 dollars here and there isn't the concern. That's quarters in a fountain - they're more than likely doing it for the fun and the money is inconsequential. It's when the big spenders start to move away that it negatively affects the projects that could have otherwise benefitted from it. To use The Repop as an example, half the money pledged is by 10% of the backers. Maybe that 10% already knows which to fund and which are duds, so maybe it's not an issue. Who knows. 
 

---

The thing is, people spending larger amounts are unlikely to be so careless where they money go.

So you have the group that "never learns" and just spend disposable money, and then those who are "serious" about funding and those will be picky where they money go.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the srious backers are already a lot more discerning about where their money goes, so the presence of Hope-and-Dream projects that fail wouldn't really affect them to begin with as they'd already be avoiding them?

Interesting.  That makes sense, actually. Thanks, Gd.

My take is that like 99% of the games will be crap, and there's like a 1% chance some "gem" will come out of this.

I also totally agree with this post from Lokto:

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

A lot of these 'indie' MMO projects popping up on Kickstarter are going to be the cause of some serious changes in the site's policies or rules, simply because many of them combine two dangerous elements

• people who don't know what they are getting themselves into and thus do not realize they lack the skills/knowledge to accomplish their task
• gullible people blinded by hope funding these projects

 

It's already started and it's going to get worse as more and more people download a free or cheap MMO kit and set out to create the ultimate MMO that, of course, hasn't been made because the professional studios with 200-300 employees and a dozen titles to their name are just all lazy and afraid of risk. Their features lists read like wishlists, and when 

What's worse, is the people throwing money at projects that have a dozen red flags to begin with are going to fault everyone anyone but the guys that actually promised the sun, took the money and then couldn't deliver.  

Obviously I'm not talking about all MMO project or even the majority of them. There are enough, however, with nothing but a promise and a prayer... and lots of people buying into it. 

 

Kickstarter is both the best and the worst thing to happen to the 'indie' MMO scene. The horrible part about it is the amount of money that will be wasted over the year or so it takes before either more stringent rules are in place or enough people get burnt to actually start using history and logic instead of hope as their deciding factors when it comes to backing projects. 

Spot on, couldn't have said it better. The vast part of that money is going to be wasted into crap projects made by total amateurs who don't have a clue about what they got themself into. It smells like "fail" from miles away, and I for sure would never invest my money there.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

My take is that like 99% of the games will be crap, and there's like a 1% chance some "gem" will come out of this.

Oh, so then KS games will turn out just like AAA games

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

My take is that like 99% of the games will be crap, and there's like a 1% chance some "gem" will come out of this.

Oh, so then KS games will turn out just like AAA games

When was the last successful "indie" MMORPG? EvE maybe (even though it's not exactly indie)? All the rest is total crap, nice promises with no delivery, sub par products with poor programming and arrogant nobodies thinking they are the next Blizzard when in reality they are blinded by their "vision" which only lead them to the inevitable conclusion, a crap game.

There have been some failure AAA MMOs too of course, but most are doing decently, even the "worse" are doing way more money than any of those indie failgames.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

My take is that like 99% of the games will be crap, and there's like a 1% chance some "gem" will come out of this.

Oh, so then KS games will turn out just like AAA games

When was the last successful "indie" MMORPG? EvE maybe (even though it's not exactly indie)? All the rest is total crap, nice promises with no delivery, sub par products with poor programming and arrogant nobodies thinking they are the next Blizzard when in reality they are blinded by their "vision" which only lead them to the inevitable conclusion, a crap game.

There have been some failure AAA MMOs too of course, but most are doing decently, even the "worse" are doing way more money than any of those indie failgames.

You said 99% of games will be crap. Not 99% will be successful.

Case in point- SWTOR. Crappy game thats successful.

It too came with "nice promises with no delivery, sub par products with poor programming and arrogant nobodies thinking they are the next Blizzard when in reality they are blinded by their "vision" which only lead them to the inevitable conclusion, a crap game."

Next at bat in this AAA Crap League- Zenimax with TESO

Will it succeed? Probably. Its Elder Scrolls! Will it be crap, Again, probably