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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Is the sub fee + item shop keeping anyone away?

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229 posts found
  dreamscaper

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/08
Posts: 1316

6/13/12 2:28:57 AM#81

Finding out that they were going sub plus ship killed most of my interest in the game. I used to love LotRO, but I don't put up with that nonsense. Unfortunately, there are far too many people out there with more disposable income than sense, hence why developers are flocking to this model.

 

The only cast shop I've ever been mostly okay with is Eve Online's. It's only outfits; they're not building inconveniences into the game to try to goad you into buying stuff the way most do.

 

While I'll likely try the trial, it's very unlikely that I'll subscribe to the game unless it seems like it's done exceptionally well (something similar to the above).

<3

  User Deleted
6/13/12 2:43:48 AM#82

Not really as i see it as more that they will provide good content for those that pay thier monthly fee, the cs shop is more for those that have the desire or want to further support the dev/game by buying afew thigns out of the cs. Now what is more an issue is how long will they keep it a cosmetic largely only shop that has no or very small effect on the game itself is still to be seen. Really in the end i see the cs as more  of a donation shop that is largely optional (for now.) yet you gain rewards for your donations via the shop. With the fact that you have both stat-based gear, as well as vaninity/non-stat gear in the game that are seperated, you miight see more people wiilling to spend more on that vanity item that they have in the cs than a stat item (more so based on how much your stats on gear influence your chances of wnning in game.). Also the fact the pvp is in specific areas an not open world the shop might even have less of a bad effect on the pvp, since by the time you would be playing in those you would have had time to get better gear. Also most pvp is group based not solo based which means that with good usage of abilities, and tactics you could tackle players with greater gear than you. In pve being able to get better gear has little meaning as it is only going to mean you can do better content, and progress faster thru the content, most any that actually brags about how much dps or what not they do in pve is well compensating for something a good amount of the time.

 

It relly does come down to hwo the cs is used or what it becomes for how good or bad it will be. So long as it stays like Wow shop where it is all services, vanity gear, mounts, and maybe even mats (low quality i would think, though throwing afew higher ones on sometimes would not be bad.) it should be fine as it is more a convience than anythign to me at that point.

  keenber

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 438

6/13/12 2:52:01 AM#83

I wouldnt buy the game if it was f2p or b2p.  Sub and cash shop is the only way to have a good mmo if the cash shop is only fluff items.

  Siug

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 1023

6/13/12 2:52:41 AM#84

Monthly sub is no problem for me personally if they keep developing the game. As long as CS sells cloth and cosmetics (or beginner stuff like initiate pack for 15 bucks that gives some weapons) I don't mind that either. Actually I like sub because it may keep at least some sociopaths away.

I just love the concept of TSW and if it turns out good I'd be a happy customer. If it flops then no big problem either because it's only a game. Some are talking TSW down and hyping GW2 in this thread but you know what - I'm soooo tired of high fantasy MMOs and I don't think I can play one more of those. And watching GW2 vids I don't feel like I'd want to play it. That does not mean GW2 is a bad game, it's just not for me.

  calranthe

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/05
Posts: 361

6/13/12 2:58:10 AM#85

No problem to me, bought a sub for wife and myself and given ourselves a £100 per month allowance to spend on the cash shop to put that in perspective I would spend that amount on 2 nights out with friends.

  calranthe

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/05
Posts: 361

6/13/12 3:11:06 AM#86
Originally posted by colddog04
Eh, whatever.

 

Go and buy GW1 because you feel like you are forced to. It's still $210 cheaper than TSW over the course of a year.

I believe someone pointed out some uncomfortable facts to GW fanboys if you want a survivable amount of bank slots bag slots etc it comes out via the cash shop at around $200, while not forced to, it is a convenience most will wish.

 

  hiphopreigns

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 8

6/18/12 8:20:19 PM#87

It's keeping me away. And it's such a shame because I was keeping tabs on TSW back when it was announced. I love modern-day MMOs and this would be perfect for me. Hell, I loved every minute of playing The Matrix Online. I don't mind paying a sub either. But cash shop? Nope. Never. I don't really want to trust Funcom either and obviously this is why. Nine times out of ten, there WILL be "win potions" in a cash shop, simply because devs know that lazy gamers are almost the majority now. People WILL buy items if you put them in there.

 

From a business standpoint, it makes perfect sense. But as a player? I won't play a game with a sub and a shop. I don't even like playing games with a shop anyway, regardless if it's F2P or not. Gamers that don't see a problem with this are the reason the MMO-genre is dying out. Same reason why people support companies like Capcom who'd rather nickel-and-dime their players with day one DLC and re-releasing the same game a few months later. If people wouldn't buy it, it wouldn't exist. Oh well. There's probably no place in this "new world" for traditional gamers like myself. So be it.

  hiphopreigns

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 8

6/18/12 8:25:52 PM#88
Originally posted by BarCrow

Yeah..it's bullshite. Just the other day I bought a sub and still had to pay for the drink and chips.

It was meatball with marinara.

 

Very inaccurate analogy. Try this one:

 

We both bought a delicious meatball marinara sandwich combo. We both go to our seats to enjoy our meal. I wink at you, you give me an air high-five... it's all good times.

 

You buy a fork for $1.20, then you buy a napkin for $.50, and then a straw for $.10. While I can still enjoy my meal without these "convenience items", they should be availible to EVERY paying customer in the establishment equally. I shouldn't have to pay for these trinkets if I bought a meal already. I'm going to have to eat with my hands, deal with messy fingers and fumble with my soda just because you (not you specifically) are a lazy gamer that would rather empty out his wallet for more win.

  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

6/18/12 8:30:44 PM#89

I won't play a game with a cash shop, sub or not.   When a game has cash shop the goal of the dev becomes to make you buy stuff from the cash shop not make the game better.  I have no problem with paying for a sub larger then $15(had multi account before) but I will not support a game that is going to go p2w.  (They all do.)  

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  User Deleted
6/18/12 8:34:58 PM#90


Originally posted by hiphopreigns

Originally posted by BarCrow Yeah..it's bullshite. Just the other day I bought a sub and still had to pay for the drink and chips. It was meatball with marinara.
 

Very inaccurate analogy. Try this one:

 

We both bought a delicious meatball marinara sandwich combo. We both go to our seats to enjoy our meal. I wink at you, you give me an air high-five... it's all good times.

 

You buy a fork for $1.20, then you buy a napkin for $.50, and then a straw for $.10. While I can still enjoy my meal without these "convenience items", they should be availible to EVERY paying customer in the establishment equally. I shouldn't have to pay for these trinkets if I bought a meal already. I'm going to have to eat with my hands, deal with messy fingers and fumble with my soda just because you (not you specifically) are a lazy gamer that would rather empty out his wallet for more win.


I saw a good one a couple weeks ago. When you buy a movie ticket, it gives you access to a seat that is playing the movie you paid for. The items in the snack bar are not included. People assume that their 15 bucks a month is for patches and content updates and every bit of content that is in the game. Wrong. 15 bucks a month is the price of you being able to just log in. Nothing more, nothing less. You're not entitled to more just because you think they are making money hand over fist. And they very well may be, laughing all the way to the bank. Doesnt change the fact that you have any right to anything more than a login to their server.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5929

6/18/12 8:52:42 PM#91
Originally posted by DannyGlover

Originally posted by hiphopreigns

Originally posted by BarCrow Yeah..it's bullshite. Just the other day I bought a sub and still had to pay for the drink and chips. It was meatball with marinara.
 Very inaccurate analogy. Try this one:

We both bought a delicious meatball marinara sandwich combo. We both go to our seats to enjoy our meal. I wink at you, you give me an air high-five... it's all good times.

You buy a fork for $1.20, then you buy a napkin for $.50, and then a straw for $.10. While I can still enjoy my meal without these "convenience items", they should be availible to EVERY paying customer in the establishment equally. I shouldn't have to pay for these trinkets if I bought a meal already. I'm going to have to eat with my hands, deal with messy fingers and fumble with my soda just because you (not you specifically) are a lazy gamer that would rather empty out his wallet for more win.

I saw a good one a couple weeks ago. When you buy a movie ticket, it gives you access to a seat that is playing the movie you paid for. The items in the snack bar are not included. People assume that their 15 bucks a month is for patches and content updates and every bit of content that is in the game. Wrong. 15 bucks a month is the price of you being able to just log in. Nothing more, nothing less. You're not entitled to more just because you think they are making money hand over fist. And they very well may be, laughing all the way to the bank. Doesnt change the fact that you have any right to anything more than a login to their server.

Not every business has the same business model.  I've been to theatres where I get an entire meal with the movie and theatres that are the standard mall fare where you pay for everything piece by piece (the movie, the beverage, snacks, etc).  But that isn't the only way to enjoy movies.  Now I can watch most movies on Netflix in my home.  I can rent movies on Vudu and am allowed to use my own snacks and drinks unlike the plastic mall theatres.  This is why many analogies suck and don't add much to the overall discussion.  They're woefully inadequate.

I don't have a metaphor or analogy, but more speaking from a more practical standpoint it comes down to total cost for the return on entertainment.  We all pay varying amounts for our various forms of entertainment.  So the question really comes down to: is the game worth the total cost?  That answer is subjective for each game, and each person considering that game.

For you the game is easily worth that for a period of time.  For me no game (not even my favorites) deliver enough for me to want to pay mulitple ways (recurring fee, one off fees, and additional piece meal fees).  Like I said above, at this point, I'm only really willing to pay one (or maybe a combo of two) ways at this time.  I'm fickle though and that's subject to change on a whim.

Curse you AquaScum!

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

6/18/12 8:56:37 PM#92


Originally posted by fldash
Just curious. I really want to play this, but since I've already purchased GW2 and it doesn't have a subscription fee, I find it incredibly hard to justify paying a subscription fee for any other game. I would consider one that was perhaps half the cost of the traditional $15, but with a item shop, it really rubs me the wrong way...

yes those things matter to me, but they dont matter more than my fear (ea) and loathing (funcom) ... if i was in vegas ... id probably be able to look past all of that .. but im not.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2542

6/18/12 8:57:43 PM#93
Originally posted by calranthe
Originally posted by colddog04
Eh, whatever.

 

Go and buy GW1 because you feel like you are forced to. It's still $210 cheaper than TSW over the course of a year.

I believe someone pointed out some uncomfortable facts to GW fanboys if you want a survivable amount of bank slots bag slots etc it comes out via the cash shop at around $200, while not forced to, it is a convenience most will wish.

 

AHH - they haven't listed the prices for the CS in GW2 yet - so you can't say. Also, YOU DON'T have to buy them they are totally optional.

You can make bags in GW2 by crafting so it it no big deal.

The CS in GW2, so far is a non-issue.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

6/18/12 9:00:56 PM#94

No way.

I have been really lookiing forward to this game . If it had remained a standard sub game (even $20/month) I would play. I refuse to play F2P games . Not even sure about Gw2 although I can respect B2P having a cash shop but am going to wait to see how it pans out.

Unfortunatly I am running out of options- Oh well.

Edit: Mistakes =/

  nilden

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 923

6/18/12 9:01:59 PM#95

Honestly I don't care about the money. $15 bucks a month is nothing, you could see a movie or take a cab or eat at mcdonalds and spend that. For an entire month of access to a game thats a bargain. Well depending on if you have any interest in playing the game.

The thing is I'm only going to sub to a max of 2 games at a time. So if I give up a game for another one and they both have subscriptions one gets replaced if something is better.

The only game I ever felt should never have had a sub fee was planetside which had every other FPS with no sub as competition.

As far as a cash shop goes it's more personal opinion than anything but I feel cosmetic items are a driving purpose in games. If you take away loot drops like special mounts, clothes, pets, etc from being able to get them in game by drops or quests and have them be cash shop only I think it hurts the game. It's like taking content out of the game just to make money on it.

A lot of the games now just charge sub and give you points every month to spend by being subbed anyway.

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

6/18/12 9:05:36 PM#96
Originally posted by calranthe
Originally posted by colddog04
Eh, whatever.

 

Go and buy GW1 because you feel like you are forced to. It's still $210 cheaper than TSW over the course of a year.

I believe someone pointed out some uncomfortable facts to GW fanboys if you want a survivable amount of bank slots bag slots etc it comes out via the cash shop at around $200, while not forced to, it is a convenience most will wish.

Nah, not really. Actually, after explaining it to people, I don't think I've seen anyone that's actually played the game complain about limited inventory space. I've seen people that ask for more account bank slots though. Fortunately, it does not actually cost $200 to receive extra bank space. And in fact, you can use in game gold to unlock them too. (Something you will not be able to do when the TSW cash shop comes out).

 

I feel like having 1 20 slot bag + 4 slots that can carry 4 more 20 slot bags is more than enough inventory space in a game where you can send all your crafting mats back to your bank, which has space for up to 250 for each material, from your inventory.

 

On top of that, if you spent $200 in the GW2 cash shop for every possible upgrade to inventory and bank space like you suggest, it would still be $10 cheaper than TSW after one year. Go figure.

 

By the way, TSW has a cash shop as well. That is part of what this thread is about. They haven't even released what will be in that cash shop 2 weeks from release. I'd be nervous about that little detail if I was planning on buying this game.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

6/18/12 9:05:36 PM#97
Originally posted by nilden

Honestly I don't care about the money. $15 bucks a month is nothing, you could see a movie or take a cab or eat at mcdonalds and spend that. For an entire month of access to a game thats a bargain. Well depending on if you have any interest in playing the game.

The thing is I'm only going to sub to a max of 2 games at a time. So if I give up a game for another one and they both have subscriptions one gets replaced if something is better.

The only game I ever felt should never have had a sub fee was planetside which had every other FPS with no sub as competition.

As far as a cash shop goes it's more personal opinion than anything but I feel cosmetic items are a driving purpose in games. If you take away loot drops like special mounts, clothes, pets, etc from being able to get them in game by drops or quests and have them be cash shop only I think it hurts the game. It's like taking content out of the game just to make money on it.

A lot of the games now just charge sub and give you points every month to spend by being subbed anyway.

RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like cosmetic items, pets and such and want them to be PART of the Game (not optional with fees attached)

This is a slippery slope- What if you needed to pay for the top raid dungeons (because MOST people do not do the Top Raids)...This peicemeal gaming is moving in a bad direction.

  Soandsoso

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/08/12
Posts: 471

6/18/12 9:17:32 PM#98
Originally posted by SaintPhilip
Originally posted by nilden

Honestly I don't care about the money. $15 bucks a month is nothing, you could see a movie or take a cab or eat at mcdonalds and spend that. For an entire month of access to a game thats a bargain. Well depending on if you have any interest in playing the game.

The thing is I'm only going to sub to a max of 2 games at a time. So if I give up a game for another one and they both have subscriptions one gets replaced if something is better.

The only game I ever felt should never have had a sub fee was planetside which had every other FPS with no sub as competition.

As far as a cash shop goes it's more personal opinion than anything but I feel cosmetic items are a driving purpose in games. If you take away loot drops like special mounts, clothes, pets, etc from being able to get them in game by drops or quests and have them be cash shop only I think it hurts the game. It's like taking content out of the game just to make money on it.

A lot of the games now just charge sub and give you points every month to spend by being subbed anyway.

RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like cosmetic items, pets and such and want them to be PART of the Game (not optional with fees attached)

This is a slippery slope- What if you needed to pay for the top raid dungeons (because MOST people do not do the Top Raids)...This peicemeal gaming is moving in a bad direction.

Went from buying cosmetic to buying raid content...hyperbole much.

The only way I see someone having an issue is if they cannot show self control and choose to not to use the optional store.

Some need to figure out wants vs needs.

These shops exist because it is proven that some will pay to get what they want instead of playing the game to get it.

Cant fault the company trying to make money for that.

 

  DaezAster

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 790

6/18/12 9:17:34 PM#99

The cash shop doesnt bother me but I dont feel the game is worth a monthly fee, especially after playing gw2 which I found to be better in everyway. 

TSW has some potential but it felt a bit like they threw too many ingredients in the pot and it didnt equal a good  enough meal for the fancy restaurant price...

  Acidon

Elite Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 734

Permafried

6/18/12 9:21:47 PM#100

Well since I have no ties directly to TSW, I would like to answer in a more general manner if you don't mind.

 

At first, being an old-school gamer, being used to paying a small monthly fee and getting everything in-game available to me was the ideal package for me.

Cash shops, the poor ones, repulse me. 

 

But, I have to admit, I have spent a 10 or 20 here and there a few times over the last few years on items I didn't really need.  This was back before EQ2 was full F2P and you could still sub completely without the restrictions (tho the cash shop was always there regardless).  This was when I decided that those wings just looked too cool with my new halloween outfit, etc.  I have literally not spent more than 50 dollars in total on these things, but I will readily admit to being part of the "problem", however small it was.

 

IMHO, as long as they don't debilitate the game so much that you NEED the cash shop, it's fine with me.  When they start decreasing normal XP over time and making those XP pots (for example) look incredibly enticing ~ well that's when I say enough is enough and I move on.

 

Since that time I went thru Rift's Beta and have had an unbroken sub with them since.  I know many people look down on Rift, but they are one of the VERY few developers that are still doing this right. 

When you add the upcoming expansion that will literally triple the size of the world + add 10 character levels, among so many other awesome things.. well.. I can't say no to that.  And still no cash shop in sight.  They have other games in development designed for that. 

Rift is still pristine. 

 

I wasn't trying to advertise another game in this thread.  I was making my point.  My personal point.  Based, of course, on my personal opinion.

 

I hope it's in-line with the current discussion.  Have a good day.

Playing: EverQuest, RiFT, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
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