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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » What is it with these leveling speed complaints on the official forums?

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335 posts found
  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4563

6/11/12 2:08:02 PM#161
Originally posted by Wolfynsong
Originally posted by aesperus

Except, these players are basically sitting there with 2-5% of the content completed, and asking for a method to be put in place to skip the other 95%. This goes well beyond skipping content you don't enjoy. This basically players asking if they can skip the game, but still say they've played it.

And then there are players like me, who complete 90-95% of the content, and are still underleveled.

I'm not going to call you a liar... but do you happen to have a screenshot of your 90% world progression?

I'm just skeptical because you would basically need to be:

1) Max lvl for the beta

2) Have completed all zones available in the beta (which, even playing for 72hrs straight would've been difficult, and you would've needed some friends to help you w/ some of the events)

3) I know for a fact that a lot of small things like skill point challenges, and certain points of interest weren't obtainable in beta. Thus making it impossible to get higher than a certain %age map completion.

If I misread you, and you meant 90-95% of the content on one map, then that's a completely different issue. This would go back to what Creslin & myself have been saying throughout this thread. There are many zones, many areas to explore, each of which are layered with things to do. Only doing 1 layer of content in 1 zone is basically avoiding the majority of what this game has to offer. You would basically be actively rushing through the game, skipping all the content.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

6/11/12 2:10:00 PM#162


Originally posted by Wolfynsong

Originally posted by aesperus Except, these players are basically sitting there with 2-5% of the content completed, and asking for a method to be put in place to skip the other 95%. This goes well beyond skipping content you don't enjoy. This basically players asking if they can skip the game, but still say they've played it.
And then there are players like me, who complete 90-95% of the content, and are still underleveled.



There seems to be a disconnect between what you're saying here and what other players are relating. Other players are saying that they've done a variety of things and had plenty or at least enough XP.

What does this mean? I'm not sure. Perhaps the devs need to work on how the content is delivered or laid out. If you've missed content, then something about the game wasn't conducive to getting content delivered to you. If so, you're not alone. Perhaps they need to adjust the XP curve slightly, which is possible. This is a beta after all. It could be that the distribution of dynamic events or something similar causes a difference in how much XP different people are getting. Again, here the devs need to adjust things.

The most likely thing is an adjustment of XP. You want most of your players to have enough XP. It would be nice to be able to have players who actually do 3 out of the 5 activities get enough XP, but probably they'll make sure 90% or more of their players have enough XP, regardless of the activities they partake in. Maybe less than 90% if they want to sell some XP potions. :-)

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

6/11/12 2:12:50 PM#163

There were people giving out about queue'ing for wvw, i tried to tell them they could get into wvw straight away in lion arch through the portals...but they paid no heed and continued complaing about queues or waiting to get into wvw.

  Wolfynsong

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/12
Posts: 241

6/11/12 2:17:53 PM#164
Originally posted by Unlight

I think a lot of people are playing by checking off boxes on a list.  

...

And I think people are also averse to repeating an event if they've done it once already.  Internally, they've checked that piece of content off their list and no longer consider it worth doing.  If so, there's not much help for them.  If the events aren't fun enough to play on their own, a leveling incentive is only going to make them seem like a grind.  For players like that, there's not much to be done for them.  Better to just ignore them and hope they find a game they does work for them, sooner rather than later.

I admit my point of view is a bit like this.  I typically avoid making alts because I dislike having to go through the work of grinding through content I already ground my way through once before.  That has more to do with the total cumulative amount of work I have to "re-do" and less with the content itself, though boring quest hubs really don't make it any more appealing to me.

Don't get me wrong, I like the events in GW2 infinitely more than I've ever liked quests in other MMOs.  But I also feel that a slight tweak to the experience rate would really help with replayability, simply because you could by extension more easily miss and/or avoid content.  It would help make subsequent playthroughs equally enjoyable by making it quite feasible that you would encounter a different set of events.  It also increases your "end-game" content because you reach the cap and discover that there is still a lot out there that you haven't done (although that would probably be true anyway).

I firmly believe, based on my personal experience, that the game would benefit from a slight boost to experience rates.  Will I be crushed if nothing changes?  Not so much.  Ultimately I'm being overly picky about it because I know this game and its developers can handle it.  If I didn't like the game or think it was able to be improved, I would never take the time to criticize its moderate flaws.

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2637

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

6/11/12 2:20:32 PM#165
Originally posted by Wolfynsong
Originally posted by aesperus

Except, these players are basically sitting there with 2-5% of the content completed, and asking for a method to be put in place to skip the other 95%. This goes well beyond skipping content you don't enjoy. This basically players asking if they can skip the game, but still say they've played it.

And then there are players like me, who complete 90-95% of the content, and are still underleveled.

This is a lie. If you completed 90-95% of the level 1-15 content you would probably be high level  for the 15-25 level content. You're probably talking about 90-95% of one 1-15 level zone of which there are 5. Your options are to run and do all the heart quests and skill challenges and DEs inbetween in which case leveling is fast and easy and you will far out level the next set of zones or you can chill in one zone and grind the same DEs over and over if you want and take longer to level. That's all on you.

  seridan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/12
Posts: 1212

6/11/12 2:21:42 PM#166
Originally posted by Xzen

This is a lie. If you completed 90-95% of the level 1-15 content you would probably be high level  for the 15-25 level content. You're probably talking about 90-95% of one 1-15 level zone of which there are 5. Your options are to run and do all the heart quests and skill challenges and DEs inbetween in which case leveling is fast and easy and you will far out level the next set of zones or you can chill in one zone and grind the same DEs over and over if you want and take longer to level. That's all on you.

You can get to level 15 without visiting another starting zone.......

Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1087

6/11/12 2:22:06 PM#167
Originally posted by Arataki

At the moment, GW2 does not do a very good job of explaining itself. Hearts are not the end all, be all of an area. They are simply intended to lure you to a spot and from there, your interactions with the NPCs were supposed to kick off small missions which snowballed into DEs. However, there is absolutely nothing in the game that even hints to this.

Second, yes, if you are underleveled, you will have a bit of an issue exploring as mobs will kick your ass. And there is a very large flaw in "zomg, just go to another races starting area for exp." It's called replayability. Visiting other races starting area for exp, means that playing any of those starting races is going to be an exercise in repetition. There is an equally large flaw in assuming that everyone should be happy with a large amount of their necessary exp coming from crafting.

Third, simply telling people that "leveling is not the point" is neatly counteracted by the personal story have very clear level requirements. You are only level 14 and have finished Queensdale? You probably wouldn't really give it a second thought, if there wasn't that big red (16) next your personal story based in the next zone where everything is slapping you around.

Fourth, repetition is repetition. Do you know what the term is for a game design that encourages doing the same thing over and over? A grind. No one explores to see the same thing. 2 or 3 times, ok, maybe. However, if people are getting bored of an event the fifth time around, it is doing no one any favours to claim that they were "just in the wrong mindset."

The simple fact of GW2 is do everything if you want to level faster. Trying to PvE quest for speed leveling isnt going to work so just stop it. Leveling is the point, that is why you get experience for everything. Its the me me me want everything now generation of gamers that are ruining the mmorpg's with wanting everything to be so fast, then they get done and bitch about not having anything to do.

I hope they don't change anything with the leveling, its a great pace for both casual and those that don't sleep or get out of the chair for 8 hours that will be bored in a month or die from blood clots.

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2637

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

6/11/12 2:24:00 PM#168
Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by Xzen

This is a lie. If you completed 90-95% of the level 1-15 content you would probably be high level  for the 15-25 level content. You're probably talking about 90-95% of one 1-15 level zone of which there are 5. Your options are to run and do all the heart quests and skill challenges and DEs inbetween in which case leveling is fast and easy and you will far out level the next set of zones or you can chill in one zone and grind the same DEs over and over if you want and take longer to level. That's all on you.

You can get to level 15 without visiting another starting zone.......

I know you can. But the guy I was replying to said he did 90-95% of the 1-15 content but was still under leveled. I'm just calling BS on him.

  Wolfynsong

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/12
Posts: 241

6/11/12 2:25:04 PM#169
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Wolfynsong
Originally posted by aesperus Except, these players are basically sitting there with 2-5% of the content completed, and asking for a method to be put in place to skip the other 95%. This goes well beyond skipping content you don't enjoy. This basically players asking if they can skip the game, but still say they've played it.
And then there are players like me, who complete 90-95% of the content, and are still underleveled.
There seems to be a disconnect between what you're saying here and what other players are relating. Other players are saying that they've done a variety of things and had plenty or at least enough XP.

Well, unless I lost a bunch of experience along the way, I don't see how my time in beta could have been so much less productive than the average.

...

And suddenly that makes me wonder... they didn't do any rollbacks, did they?  Because if they did, that would explain soooo much of why I'm feeling the experience rate is lower than it needs to be.

  achesoma

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 958

6/11/12 2:31:09 PM#170

Only way to be under level for next zone is to be skipping content.  All the hearts and POIs should be more than enough to keep players up to appropriate content level.  That's not even including your story quests. 

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1087

6/11/12 2:32:40 PM#171
Originally posted by Wolfynsong
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Wolfynsong
Originally posted by aesperus Except, these players are basically sitting there with 2-5% of the content completed, and asking for a method to be put in place to skip the other 95%. This goes well beyond skipping content you don't enjoy. This basically players asking if they can skip the game, but still say they've played it.
And then there are players like me, who complete 90-95% of the content, and are still underleveled.
There seems to be a disconnect between what you're saying here and what other players are relating. Other players are saying that they've done a variety of things and had plenty or at least enough XP.

Well, unless I lost a bunch of experience along the way, I don't see how my time in beta could have been so much less productive than the average.

...

And suddenly that makes me wonder... they didn't do any rollbacks, did they?  Because if they did, that would explain soooo much of why I'm feeling the experience rate is lower than it needs to be.

If you actually play the game the way its meant to be played you would have found the experience level is fine. I played the Human area and found ample stuff to keep me busy without repeating anything. I crafted alittle bit also, only got my crafting to 25 in the process but its was good enough to keep me current. I did alittle WvW pvp, structured PvP is lame in any game and not for me, but mostly I was running around exploring, doing hearts and DE's I came across. You can gain almost a third of a level maybe a tad more by running the city and discovering all the portal points. 

I found the game to have a great exp/level rate and hope they do not change a thing.

  Wolfynsong

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/12
Posts: 241

6/11/12 2:33:32 PM#172
Originally posted by aesperus

I'm not going to call you a liar... but do you happen to have a screenshot of your 90% world progression?

I'm just skeptical because you would basically need to be:

1) Max lvl for the beta

2) Have completed all zones available in the beta (which, even playing for 72hrs straight would've been difficult, and you would've needed some friends to help you w/ some of the events)

3) I know for a fact that a lot of small things like skill point challenges, and certain points of interest weren't obtainable in beta. Thus making it impossible to get higher than a certain %age map completion.

If I misread you, and you meant 90-95% of the content on one map, then that's a completely different issue. This would go back to what Creslin & myself have been saying throughout this thread. There are many zones, many areas to explore, each of which are layered with things to do. Only doing 1 layer of content in 1 zone is basically avoiding the majority of what this game has to offer. You would basically be actively rushing through the game, skipping all the content.

I was speaking of the zone completion meter, so yes, 90-95% per zone.  For Queensdale I had 95%, Kessex Hills I reached I think 92% total.  By that point I tried to move into the Gandarrin Fields (If that was the name?) but found myself 4 levels beneath the minimum.  I didn't take any screenshots whatsoever, though, so I can't actually prove any of this.

However, I only leveled to 25 across both BWEs, one character, and only through the human zones.  I was rather busy.  Nonetheless, I didn't intentionally rush.  I followed DE chains whenever I found them, and participated in all the DEs I came across.  I also earned almost every skill point I could per zone (I missed one in Queensdale, but I couldn't figure out how to reach it before being distracted by another event).

Basically my issue was that I did all of this in terms of % completion and yet was still not where I needed to be.

I don't really care if you believe me or not, this was what happened for me.

  seridan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/12
Posts: 1212

6/11/12 2:34:56 PM#173
Originally posted by Wolfynsong

I was speaking of the zone completion meter, so yes, 90-95% per zone.  For Queensdale I had 95%, Kessex Hills I reached I think 92% total.  By that point I tried to move into the Gandarrin Fields (If that was the name?) but found myself 4 levels beneath the minimum.  I didn't take any screenshots whatsoever, though, so I can't actually prove any of this.

However, I only leveled to 25 across both BWEs, one character, and only through the human zones.  I was rather busy.  Nonetheless, I didn't intentionally rush.  I followed DE chains whenever I found them, and participated in all the DEs I came across.  I also earned almost every skill point I could per zone (I missed one in Queensdale, but I couldn't figure out how to reach it before being distracted by another event).

Basically my issue was that I did all of this in terms of % completion and yet was still not where I needed to be.

I don't really care if you believe me or not, this was what happened for me.

You do know that 100% exploration gives an insane amount of experience?

Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  Wolfynsong

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/12
Posts: 241

6/11/12 2:38:14 PM#174
Originally posted by seridan

You do know that 100% exploration gives an insane amount of experience?

And what is your point?  100% in any title track is a reward for completionists, and should not be forced on me just to reach the next area at level.

  AIMonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2002

6/11/12 3:05:18 PM#175
Originally posted by Wolfynsong
Originally posted by aesperus

Except, these players are basically sitting there with 2-5% of the content completed, and asking for a method to be put in place to skip the other 95%. This goes well beyond skipping content you don't enjoy. This basically players asking if they can skip the game, but still say they've played it.

And then there are players like me, who complete 90-95% of the content, and are still underleveled.

How?  I had 21% map completion and I was level 53...  The leveling curve is flat past 30, so it's likely I'd have less than 40% completion before I hit 80.

(Also map completion doesn't count dungeons either I believe, so that 21% isn't all the content available in the game)

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Wolfynsong

Novice Member

Joined: 3/21/12
Posts: 241

6/11/12 3:13:50 PM#176
Originally posted by Magnum2103
Originally posted by Wolfynsong
Originally posted by aesperus

Except, these players are basically sitting there with 2-5% of the content completed, and asking for a method to be put in place to skip the other 95%. This goes well beyond skipping content you don't enjoy. This basically players asking if they can skip the game, but still say they've played it.

And then there are players like me, who complete 90-95% of the content, and are still underleveled.

How?  I had 21% map completion and I was level 53...  The leveling curve is flat past 30, so it's likely I'd have less than 40% completion before I hit 80.

(Also map completion doesn't count dungeons either I believe, so that 21% isn't all the content available in the game)

I was speaking in percentage completion per zone.  Also, I'm now fairly convinced that a rollback took place at some point and that I was just not aware.

It would explain why several skill points which I was fairly certain I had acquired were not showing up as finished on the map, forcing me to re-do them.

  GreenishBlue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/12
Posts: 266

6/11/12 3:22:43 PM#177

cry me a river... they just couldn't manage to hit level 35 in 3 days to get into the first dungeon and now they are crying... .the game  is too hard for them; wait until the next round of QQ threads for the Ascalon Catacombs dungeon; that's going to be fun to watch

  Derpybird

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/12
Posts: 1006

6/11/12 3:29:19 PM#178
Originally posted by Wolfynsong
Originally posted by aesperus

Except, these players are basically sitting there with 2-5% of the content completed, and asking for a method to be put in place to skip the other 95%. This goes well beyond skipping content you don't enjoy. This basically players asking if they can skip the game, but still say they've played it.

And then there are players like me, who complete 90-95% of the content, and are still underleveled.

Is that 90-95% figure regarding "map discovery" because I don't think the game tracks content completed (e.g. it doesn't tell you that you did x out of y dynamic events). It is possible that you might have seen most of a certain map but not seen most of the dynamic content. Or is it regarding the renown hearts or hitting all the map markers in an area etc?

Let me put it this way. When one event finishes, it is often helpful to listen to what the NPCs are saying, because they are often talking about what they are going to do next. If you move on from that area, you may miss a chain or part of a chain. Several things can happen in sequence in one small area, though there is a "cueing" time between them.

Or maybe this wasn't your experience, IDK. I know that for me, personally, by exploring into every cave and underwater area and listening to NPCs talk, I was never underleveled, and I pretty much played the hell out of the game from the start on Friday, and took a toon from 1 to 32. But then again I also gathered every resource and leveled my armorsmithing to 120 along the way, and ended up repeating very few events. Thought I did kill the giant that took over the city 3 times because it amused me. Didn't touch WvW this time around.

"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  Derpybird

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/12
Posts: 1006

6/11/12 3:31:29 PM#179
Originally posted by GreenishBlue

cry me a river... they just couldn't manage to hit level 35 in 3 days to get into the first dungeon and now they are crying... .the game  is too hard for them; wait until the next round of QQ threads for the Ascalon Catacombs dungeon; that's going to be fun to watch

You know, I did this dungeon in story mode at level 31 and we were getting our ass kicked by trash and traps just to get to the bosses. Coming from WoW where you speed cleared dungeons for your dailies in about 10-15 minutes, this was sure as hell a wakeup call. And this was the easy version.

"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4563

6/11/12 3:48:23 PM#180
Originally posted by Wolfynsong

I was speaking of the zone completion meter, so yes, 90-95% per zone.  For Queensdale I had 95%, Kessex Hills I reached I think 92% total.  By that point I tried to move into the Gandarrin Fields (If that was the name?) but found myself 4 levels beneath the minimum.  I didn't take any screenshots whatsoever, though, so I can't actually prove any of this.

However, I only leveled to 25 across both BWEs, one character, and only through the human zones.  I was rather busy.  Nonetheless, I didn't intentionally rush.  I followed DE chains whenever I found them, and participated in all the DEs I came across.  I also earned almost every skill point I could per zone (I missed one in Queensdale, but I couldn't figure out how to reach it before being distracted by another event).

Basically my issue was that I did all of this in terms of % completion and yet was still not where I needed to be.

I don't really care if you believe me or not, this was what happened for me.

This is actually a lot more plausible. Especially if you were only questing in 1-2 zones.

However, this is also precisely what we were trying to communicate. Treating events like quest hubs, is kinda missing the entire point of the game. They aren't all checkboxes to be checked. Many events are branching, large-scale tug of war matches. Saving that bridge, outpost, town, doesn't mean it will stay saved. The enemies will usually come back, and many times there are follow up events to prepare for when that happens, or to clean up a town that has just been ravaged.

Another thing, that is somewhat counter-intuitive with this game, is that it actually rewards you MORE for slowing down, taking detours, exploring. All the things that in other MMOs would result in you being severely underlvled, are now being rewarded in this game. Even if you don't want to touch a resource node, or do a single skillpoint challenge, you should still explore a little. There are quite a lot of events that are not obvious at first, many of which are quite interesting. There are also a lot of conditional events. For example, in the Human area, you have the Shadow Behemoth (which doesn't always spawn), you have the Cave Troll, you have the giant boar, bandit evasions, underwater bosses. There's a lot there that if you seriously have 'done nearly all of it' would put you in the mid-teens minimum. Furthermore, a lot of the content can be tackled even if you are a couple lvls too low for it. It's harder, sure, but you can still accomplish it as any class.

Perhaps Anet could do more to make this clear, but it does seem like the more they try and tell people this, the more people go 'ya, ya, sure, wheres the next quest?'.

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