Originally posted by Chrome1980

It is not about common sense but you trying too hard to give some kind of official explantion regarding what Anet never said. You are just trying to twist the words in favor of Anet that is why i asked for a link because i never read or heard any official statement after the manifesto video which clearly uses some big words about dynamic events.

So uh... do I get an apology?  I'll apologize for saying you're not using common sense if you're willing to swallow your words and admit that not only did Anet explain that (Repeatedly.  Google harder next time), but that I didn't have to twist any words. :P

I have better things to do with my spare time than make stuff up about what other people say.

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by LytheRage

Yep...sadly the game doesn't match their manifesto video.

How so?  I've watched the manifesto more than once and played the game and what they say IS there...and so much more.  Watch it again, write something down and then give me a REAL example of what does not match.

Of course, that's me expecting a level of effort you did not display in this post so I won't hold my breath.

"You effect things around you in a permanent way" "You're rescuing a village that will stay rescued."

On a side note Ree Soesbee is hot.

And it will.  Not FOREVER mind you or all the quests would be done in one shot which would make a terrible game.  Yes it will be attacked again.  I'm pretty sure invading forces through history did not try once and then just give up if they did not win.  Plus if there are not enough players around, places can be overrun by invading forces who occupy and destroy the place, literally knocking buildings down and "downing" the NPCs, vendors and all.

Such an invasion can spread or be quelled if players band together to retake the village.  So the world IS changed by your actions, not permanently but you can make a difference.  I have not played deep enough to see such invasions (only through videos) personally.  The starter area DEs repeat fairly often and none of them are village or town saving events.  We'll see.

One example in the Norn area, just down the hill and across a stream from where you enter the world has a neat chain.  Some grawl I think are worshipping something dark in a cave, so you are tasked with going in and stealing their food to make them believe their god has forsaken them.  If players do this a new step in the chain occurs and the grawl go crazy and start flooding out of the cave in waves to retake the food.  Now you have to defend.  If they get the food then next step does not occur.  If you defend successfully, then their shamans try to summon their god.  We did not kill them all fast enough and they summoned a winged horror that we had to take down.  I cannot wait to see what's in later levels since this is like a level 5 DE chain.

So yeah "permanent" was not the perfect word to use in describing all the effects in the game...but of course you took the quote out of context.  Listen to the preceding line: "It's your story, you effect things around you."  One could argue she is talking about the personal STORY lines which would be permanent changes for you.  You have a home instances of a city that appears different based on your choices and people can be invited to it to see those changes.

It's all in how you interpret it.

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by LytheRage

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by DarkPony

I think their communication / marketing strategy and the game's corporate identity has been beyond top notch.

Their manifesto vid stood out for me. It's probably best sales pitch ever made in this industry. It's virtually impossible to not be moved by it.

Yep...sadly the game doesn't match their manifesto video.

How so?  I've watched the manifesto more than once and played the game and what they say IS there...and so much more.  Watch it again, write something down and then give me a REAL example of what does not match.

Of course, that's me expecting a level of effort you did not display in this post so I won't hold my breath.

Manifesto is less about the features in GW2 and more about their vision and how they are going to change the MMO scene for ever. If you were less emotional about the game and company i would have a sensibile discussion with you but i don't see that is possible.

This was cleared up by other posters after I went to bed.  Just make sure that when you make blanket statements you provide facts to back them up.  You never did address my issue with your original statement and provide an example of what does not "match" their game.  Atlan99 did that.

This is the first game I've played from ArenaNet and I did not play the first Guild Wars.  I am excited but have no deep seated "emotional" connection to the game OR company.  I've only recently followed the game and prepurchased on a whim during the first BWE.  I was hooked immediately.  But that's STILL dodging my original argument and once again making an unfounded, blanket statement about me with no evidence to support that one either.

And if the manifesto, in your estimation, is more about ideas than actual concrete game elements, then it can be interpreted in a myriad number of ways.  Visions can be seen differently, while features are usually a bulleted list of facts.

Let's just agree that we see the manifesto differently.  I see it as a promise that they want to make something FUN and that is all I care about in a game.  I'm not sure what you see when you watch it,  I'll leave that for you to explain if you so desire.

I need to go try another class now and stop wasting my time on these forums.  Hopefully the wife's up now and ready to try a new area!

Originally posted by LytheRage

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by LytheRage

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by DarkPony

I think their communication / marketing strategy and the game's corporate identity has been beyond top notch.

Their manifesto vid stood out for me. It's probably best sales pitch ever made in this industry. It's virtually impossible to not be moved by it.

Yep...sadly the game doesn't match their manifesto video.

How so?  I've watched the manifesto more than once and played the game and what they say IS there...and so much more.  Watch it again, write something down and then give me a REAL example of what does not match.

Of course, that's me expecting a level of effort you did not display in this post so I won't hold my breath.

Manifesto is less about the features in GW2 and more about their vision and how they are going to change the MMO scene for ever. If you were less emotional about the game and company i would have a sensibile discussion with you but i don't see that is possible.

This was cleared up by other posters after I went to bed.  Just make sure that when you make blanket statements you provide facts to back them up.  You never did address my issue with your original statement and provide an example of what does not "match" their game.  Atlan99 did that.

This is the first game I've played from ArenaNet and I did not play the first Guild Wars.  I am excited but have no deep seated "emotional" connection to the game OR company.  I've only recently followed the game and prepurchased on a whim during the first BWE.  I was hooked immediately.  But that's STILL dodging my original argument and once again making an unfounded, blanket statement about me with no evidence to support that one either.

And if the manifesto, in your estimation, is more about ideas than actual concrete game elements, then it can be interpreted in a myriad number of ways.  Visions can be seen differently, while features are usually a bulleted list of facts.

Let's just agree that we see the manifesto differently.  I see it as a promise that they want to make something FUN and that is all I care about in a game.  I'm not sure what you see when you watch it,  I'll leave that for you to explain if you so desire.

I need to go try another class now and stop wasting my time on these forums.  Hopefully the wife's up now and ready to try a new area!

I don't think i am under obligation to go in detail about every post i make even the msot obvious ones but i will keep that in mind in future. And i think you missed the post wheer i referred to DP and Atlan saying that 'i would rather not repeat what they have already explained well'.

We all have opinions, there are no facts. by saying that we view manifest video  differenty and by saying that you contradict your own post.

Originally posted by Meowhead

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/preview-mmo/interview-guild-wars-2-pt1.html

There's another one.

interviewer overlooked Shadowbane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowbane

shadowbane is no longer mainstream but it did have a healthy following the first 2 years of its release

and was the 1st mainstream mmo that allowed players to change their world permanently

GZ: As much as players and developers pretend, no mainstream MMO – outside of EVE – allows players to change the game-world permanently. Will Guild Wars 2 deliver on this often promised feature?

ERIC: Our event system offers persistent change but not permanent change. If a village burns down it is not gone forever, but rather gone until players help rebuild it.

Originally posted by Foreverdream

Don't want to crit you guys with a wall of txt so ill make this short and sweet

 

Ok, so i love guildwars(the first one) what strikes me as odd is Guild Wars never had that big of a player base, With GW2 on the way, i see A LOT of hype for this game, where did it come from?!  

 

New post popping up of people stating how they're bored etc with gw2 ( i know some are enjoying) but isnt this exactly why you shouldn't follow hype.   I almost want to laugh because people are SOO excited for this game yet ( many) other games have their unique things about them and some i'd say are far better.

Subjective depending on what you consider "big of a player base" if that is 10 million then no. Anyway I couldn't help but wonder what was the point of this thread? To encourage the couple negative threads made by new account users? Seriously though, have fun with TERA, the far better game then gw2. BTW I don't see the hype meter going down, so something is obviously flawed in your argument.

Originally posted by UOvet

Barely any chatter on the GW2 forums. They all must be playing?

Do people honestly believe that no forum chatter means people are playing/enjoying a game? Isn't that waht BioWare said when The Old Republic forums went silent? Does that mean millions were playing and not complaining? Millions were enjoying the game? It's a possibility, but I played the game at launch so in my opinion a "quiet forum" doesn't mean people are playing/enjoying, it means they're bored or not playing.

The one and only reason GW2 has so much hype is because of the value of the game.  It is F2P.  If this game were $60, with a subscription cost of $15, there wouldn't be as many people interested.  It would be an average MMO being released in a market full of average MMO's.  

Don't fool yourselves.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Meowhead

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/preview-mmo/interview-guild-wars-2-pt1.html

There's another one.

interviewer overlooked Shadowbane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowbane

shadowbane is no longer mainstream but it did have a healthy following the first 2 years of its release

and was the 1st mainstream mmo that allowed players to change their world permanently

 

GZ: As much as players and developers pretend, no mainstream MMO – outside of EVE – allows players to change the game-world permanently. Will Guild Wars 2 deliver on this often promised feature?

ERIC: Our event system offers persistent change but not permanent change. If a village burns down it is not gone forever, but rather gone until players help rebuild it.

Funny thing is, NO game offers permanent change. MMOs are always influx, one way or another, even shadowbane. Think it through, would you really want a game in which every town you saved remained that way? It would basically result in a game of 'race to save all the towns' and then the game would be over. Fun.

Games like shadowbane are more player driven, though. However, GW2 splits that up between PvP and PvE. In PvP it works very much the same way. A keep or an outpost stays captured until you forcefully retake it. In PvE monsters are continuously trying to retake it, and you can see them forcefully taking over outposts, towns, etc. That is really the only difference.

- Honestly, are some of these people buying games off of one paragraph and taking it to mean whatever they feel like it should? No wonder no games are living up to some of these players expectations.

Originally posted by DAS1337

The one and only reason GW2 has so much hype is because of the value of the game.  It is F2P.  If this game were $60, with a subscription cost of $15, there wouldn't be as many people interested.  It would be an average MMO being released in a market full of average MMO's.  

 

Don't fool yourselves.

don't fool YOURself the game to me is more enjoyable than any P2P MMO out right now and I'd gladly pay 15 a month for it the B2P is just an incredible bonus for me

Originally posted by DAS1337

The one and only reason GW2 has so much hype is because of the value of the game.  It is F2P.  If this game were $60, with a subscription cost of $15, there wouldn't be as many people interested.  It would be an average MMO being released in a market full of average MMO's.  

 

Don't fool yourselves.

This^.

THIs^.

THIS^!!!

Originally posted by DAS1337

The one and only reason GW2 has so much hype is because of the value of the game.  It is F2P.  If this game were $60, with a subscription cost of $15, there wouldn't be as many people interested.  It would be an average MMO being released in a market full of average MMO's.  

 

Don't fool yourselves.

I'd pay $15 per month for GW2, and it would still be the same, excellent game I'm playing now for "free" (after initial purchase).

Originally posted by GTwander

GW1 was huge simply because it was the first F2P game (past the box price) that people could agree with. Every single person I knew in RL that played it, when asked, would state "I play it because it's free". The game was boring as hell to me, and according to them, it was as well. They played simply because of the "value", and GW2 poses to pass the crown down from it, though, in the face of a greater F2P market that doesn't have box price as a barrier to entry.

Bet your ass most people buying it *have* played GW1, and if you think GW1 didn't have a big population - you're high. There's tons of channels, each overflowing in just about any major hub area... just, maybe not so much anymore. Years ago, though, yes it was.

Yeah, that was always my theory as well regarding why people played GW1:  many kids didn't have parents that would pay subscription fees but would buy them the game.  The chat channel alone was enough to keep people playing.  It certainly wasn't the quality of the game:  it was in my opinion one of the 10 worst UI's ever created (won't rehash the details here).

The hype about GW2 is also partly this "cheap gamer" love fest it gets.  People that don't like subscription fees and who see Anet as somebody who allowed them to play an MMO-lite back when they were kids and couldn't afford it.  They have a special place for Anet in their heart.

Add on the fact that Anet fanned the flames by claiming it is innovating everything about MMOs, you have a monster hype machine.  It is only the last few weeks where the curtain was slowly pulled back and the non-starry eyed were quickly disillusioned.  The cash shop is offensive, the dynamic quests are just a new form of rinse/repeat questing, the elimination of competition in PVE has resulted in PVE-zergfests, the minimal active skills feels dumbed down (console ready), and in general I think the lack of talent behind the developers is showing through.  Just my opinion based off of videos, feature descriptions, and a couple friends in beta who now regret they pre-purchased.

Ok so let's count 1, 2, 3, damn that's a lot of people.

And 1 Tera sig, you start to think karma but you then look at the irony of the op. I almost want to laugh but I  unfortunately had enough common sense to understand God didn't create me to give 2 shits to do so.

Though he gave me 1 shit to post in this thread.

Y'all take care and enjoy your lives.

Edit: What's sad is I don't know what the guy above me said but I gaurentee you he is giving false/subjective info as facts.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg  It is only the last few weeks where the curtain was slowly pulled back and the non-starry eyed were quickly disillusioned. 

the 1st BWE was almost 2 months ago - the 2nd BWE is drawing more crticism on this site for whatever reasons

The hype comes from fanbois of past games that jumped off the wagon.

Nothing new. A buch of people proclaiming this is the best game ever even though they're probably not past level 15 - if they've played at all.

If its a quest hub game I'm not interested. And both sides seem to agree that its centered around running silly, pointless quest.

Originally posted by Golelorn

If its a quest hub game I'm not interested. And both sides seem to agree that its centered around running silly, pointless quest.

dont agree with your conclusion at all

ive seen plenty of player, including myself, that have remarked on exploring being a primary draw, not questing

Even ANET has said that

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/preview-mmo/interview-guild-wars-2-pt1.html

GZ: One of the aspects which we think enabled Guild Wars to stand out so much in the MMO space was the richness of Tyria and how exploring that continent felt unique to the player. Do you think this is something that will be lost when Guild Wars 2 no longer adopts the small instanced approach?

ERIC: We are building Guild Wars 2 with players who love exploration firmly in mind. We design our world to have a lot of nooks and crannies just waiting for players to discover and we reward exploration with rare events, XP for visiting new areas, profession challenges, and a host of other incentives.

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Thats because its not hype, its real.

If it were hype, there would be fewer gameplay videos, and no BWEs without NDA. The dev team has provided proof that thier game is good, where most of the other devs keep it a secret until launch. How many times have we see that, recently there has been, SWTOR, D3 and TERA, and probably more.

Why is it so hard to believe that GW2 is a quality game??

Because having played BWE1 I know that it is a quantity game, not a quality game.

You have lots of features (WvW, 3 factions, PvP, PvE, quests, dynamic events, etc. etc. etc.) but all are so... I won't say baddly done but rather "done with so little quality appeal" it's actually scary.

No player wants his adventurer (who just killed a huge iceworm or a gigantic elemental!) to waste time on collecting eggs or apples, to feed bear cubs or set fish free, to feed cows or carry rabbit fodder, to rake weeds or remove graffity.

Well, or maybe you do if you like playing My Little Pony or so such.

Ask yourself: What would Conan do? (And I'm not talking Conan O'Brian or Remake Conan, I'm talking good ol' Arnie -Conan!)

Seriously, if ANet were to cut all the "child friendly" quests the game would have a better chance of being taken "seriously".

Make events real events i.e. rare, special, not tourist attractions running every 15 min.

You can go on and on in the list of things where quality needs to replace quantity in this game, but the worst is problably the whole WvW complex because there, well, it's not even really quanitity you are looking at, just pure game mechanics rather than quality: great, tournament style server vs server "warfare" but sadly, hardly anybody will be there for that 2 weeks of war as, well, this is a game for casual players so don't expect them to maybe just pop in for a few minutes banging at some castle door, and then move on. It would be too much of an time investment for them. Which is perfectly understandable because that's what this really is, time invested, nothing else, no "hooray, we took back our ancestoral keep from the barbaric hordes to the north!" pride, nothing to get behind, not even considering that after 2 weeks you are crowned winner (or not) and then, instead of having a chance for a rematch, you are matched with a set of random other servers - about as exciting as following 2nd rate soccer league *yawn*

And let's not mention the "3 factions"... "Hello, I'm Blue." "Hello, I'm Green. You must be Red then? Oh, wait, we can't even talk, right? But we all are identical?"

Yeah, the game is really just a nice big themepark playground for casual gamers who won't look past the thousands of flashing light bulbs and the gaudy top coat of paint to see how it's all really just painted cardboard.

Originally posted by Trol1

No player wants his adventurer (who just killed a huge iceworm or a gigantic elemental!) to waste time on collecting eggs or apples, to feed bear cubs or set fish free, to feed cows or carry rabbit fodder, to rake weeds or remove graffity.

What?  WHAT?  Serious heroes are conscientious!

Killing things all the time is a sure sign of some sort of social disorder.

Balance in all things.  Also, there's honestly very few times when you can't JUST kill things straight through a heart.  I can only think of a couple exceptions.  You're overstating your case, and therefore undercutting your own point because anybody who's played will realize you're doing exaggeration to reinforce a weak argument.

If you had a better argument, you could state it cleanly without overemphasizing what is a very tiny portion of optional things.

Out of all of those, only rabbit fodder or removing graffiti stand out to me as ones where there's not much in the way of combat options, and that's one person zone.  Also, you don't HAVE to do all the hearts you know.  If you're feeling an overwhelming need to do every heart, I would think that being obsessive compulsive would make it more likely you enjoy cleaning things habitually. :)

Originally posted by Trol1

Because having played BWE1 I know that it is a quantity game, not a quality game.

Having played both BWE I know it's a pure quality game, I don't get what you say. Maybe you didn't play BWE1 otherwise you wouldn't post garbage.

You have lots of features (WvW, 3 factions, PvP, PvE, quests, dynamic events, etc. etc. etc.) but all are so... I won't say baddly done but rather "done with so little quality appeal" it's actually scary.

Almost all features you mentioned are top quality, it's scary that you didn't realize it... I haven't seen more quality in all those aspects in another game. Most fail to have quality in any of those

No player wants his adventurer (who just killed a huge iceworm or a gigantic elemental!) to waste time on collecting eggs or apples, to feed bear cubs or set fish free, to feed cows or carry rabbit fodder, to rake weeds or remove graffity.

Most players want some variety, you obviously want to just kill 10 rats. I pity you.

Seriously, if ANet were to cut all the "child friendly" quests the game would have a better chance of being taken "seriously".

If you make a single post that actually makes sense maybe people will take you seriously. Just a thought

Make events real events i.e. rare, special, not tourist attractions running every 15 min.

Did you even leave the tutorial? Most events don't run every 15 minutes. And the greatest events, those that really impact the world appear only under certain circumstances, no timer involved.

Judging by all your posts your name isn't just for show.