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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Tides have turned: Consider me sold at this point

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123 posts found
  Kuinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 2101

6/11/12 5:31:51 PM#81
Originally posted by Uhwop

The whole point of a ES mmo should have been to bring the ES gameplay to a persistant online world.

 

Why the whole point should have been that?

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

6/11/12 5:44:03 PM#82
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Uhwop

The whole point of a ES mmo should have been to bring the ES gameplay to a persistant online world.

 

Why the whole point should have been that?

 Because it's supposed to be an ES mmo, not DAoC 2 with ToR solo story, Rift events, and GW combat and class development? 

And because they announced the game as being an ES mmo for ES fans. They didn't announce it as an ES mmo for DAoC and WoW fans.

Pretty nonsensical question you asked there.

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

6/11/12 5:49:43 PM#83
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Uhwop

Trion is learning, that's why they're doing the 3 faction pvp and housing slivers.

I keep bringing this up but without questing it specifically.

What I dont understand about a 2,3,4,5,6 faction system is this. Why not have clans declare war on clans. Simple, no factions but the effect is tons of factions.

Why would that be not as good as a 3 faction system or better?

 It's not really about "3 faction pvp" as much as it is with providing new content and something players have been asking for.

I'm actually more like you, except that I prefer both routes.  EVE offers both "guild" based pvp, ffa pvp, and faction based PvP. 

But then, I believe that if you're doing it in a themepark you should be able to do it in a sandbox.  EVE is testement to that.  I don't believe you ever have to do things "one way or the other", and that things are better when you allow players to choose how they want to do it. 

ESO could do guild based PvP, they could do servers with FFA pvp, and they could have both of these things with a faction based pvp backdrop. 

There's no impossible, only a lack of willingness to try.

wait..how is it providing new content? doesnt it actually REDUCE the amount of content?

 It's a new PvP zone, even though it's just a mirror of an existing zone. 

It wasn't a statement of good or bad, it was about trion understanding that you have to constantly add to the game.  Themeparks derive there longevity from constantly adding new contant, or at least trying to.  Not from providing depth or truelly free-form gameplay that can take many, many years to exhoust. 

Some players are always going to run out of content in a themepark, by there very nature that shouldn't happen in a sandbox.  It's the difference between providing a vrtual world (the ES RPGS) or providing a virtual game (what will be ESO).  The former is based on setting you free, while the later is based on trying to keep up with the consumption of content.

  Morv

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/03
Posts: 334

6/11/12 5:57:10 PM#84

Forming an opinion of a game before there is footage, before there is evidence of the game in any way other than what the developers "claim" is a sure way to be disappointed.

 

We will see.

  Pyuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 666

6/11/12 6:15:14 PM#85

I still think it'll be the next SWTOR.

I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  Kuinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 2101

6/11/12 7:02:54 PM#86
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Uhwop

The whole point of a ES mmo should have been to bring the ES gameplay to a persistant online world.

 

Why the whole point should have been that?

 Because it's supposed to be an ES mmo, not DAoC 2 with ToR solo story, Rift events, and GW combat and class development? 

And because they announced the game as being an ES mmo for ES fans. They didn't announce it as an ES mmo for DAoC and WoW fans.

Pretty nonsensical question you asked there.

 

So by that logic WoW still should have been MMORTS game? I disagree. I dont need Starcraft game to be a real time strategy game to enjoy it, in fact, I'd love to see a Starcraft shooter and also TES RTS game. There's absolutely no reason to be stuck with just one kind of gameplay on every game that has the same name or setting as some other game.

 

I'm not saying Skyrim online would have been bad, just saying that TES online most certainly does not have to be Skyrim with added MMO component. There's no rule saying that. Star Wars is a great example, there's dozens of different genres and gameplay styles under that name.

  nilden

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 993

6/11/12 7:09:27 PM#87

Can't wait for a Top Five Reasons to keep playing: The Elder Scrolls Online.

  1. Because it's "The Elder Scrolls"

How to post links.
LoveMinecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  Omnifish

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 617

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

6/11/12 7:18:08 PM#88
Originally posted by Zylaxx

First before you flame me, look into my post history.  Check my Twitter feed (same name). Check the GameInformer articles and Massively.com articles for my responses in the comment sections.  Since the first week of May when information started coming out about TESO I have been the most ardent and vocal "hater" of this game. 

That was then, now after 3 days of E3 and countless articles, and forums readings I have had a change of heart.  Before I begin I will say that I agree with everyone who says TESO only shares the name with the single player RPG's.  Thats not to say Zenimax has not tried to work some TES ideas into the MMO version, because they have, although like most I believe they could of done a much better MMO successor to the series.

 

Ok so why have I changed my mind about TESO you may ask?  Well let me list them but first I do realize theres not been one iota of ingame combat footage shown so it could still be relatively clunky or uninspiring.  Knowing what I know no about the game I have became very excited and as long as the game is polished and has great production quality akin to WoW or GW2 then I will be thrilled.  The only thing to make me even more happier about the game would be if they were to add player housing.  Its the one core concept that is missing and I will continue to vocalize my displeasure of housing not being included.

 

TESO's combat design is next gen.  Even though there are classes (which isnt a staple of Skyrim and Oblivion) it does allow any class to use any weapon.  With the action bar (hotbar) only devoted to 3 of the 6 hotbar slots then there should be an illusion to hide some of the class based system.  I agree with the E3 article that said this system will give freedom of choice to TES veterns while still being comfortable for MMO players who have never played a TES game.

 

The ability to have active dodging, sprint, and Stealth for all classes also plays into freedom of choice in a class based character system while still staying true to TES games.  Plus There’s an incentive to fight intelligently too, as skilled play rewards you with extra treasure following a fight.

 

Public Dungeons will harken back to the old days of MMO's which is also a plus.  I absolutely love open worlds/dungeons and even though it will still have instances (which I hate with a passion) theres still plenty of the open-ended gameplay that is reminescent of TES games.

 

Removal of the quest hub is probably my greatest reason why I am excited for TESO.  I loathe "bread-crumbing" or linear paths from character creation to level cap.  Nothing is as detrimental to my immersion as being told "what to do" and "how to do it".  Open ended gameplay with open worlds to explore and the re-addition of the TES style compass to show you where P.O.I.'s are at is yet another feature that I love in TES games.  Glad that more MMO's are doing away with the traditional quest hub system.

 

 

All in all I have grown quite excited about the possibilities and I will await any further speculation or hype untill actual game footage with working systems are in place.  Even though I still consider them using the IP as a cash grab I dont mind because at least they are innovating on features that have grown stale ever since the behemoth that is WoW entered the MMO-verse. 

 

Or your someone who buys into hype.  You've just created a thread complaining about how your not a fan of any of the classes in GW2 and the weapons skills are limiting for you and you loved that game till recently.

If I was you I'd be a tad more cautious

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  Gardavsshade

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 663

6/11/12 7:18:54 PM#89
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Uhwop

The whole point of a ES mmo should have been to bring the ES gameplay to a persistant online world.

 

Why the whole point should have been that?

 Because it's supposed to be an ES mmo, not DAoC 2 with ToR solo story, Rift events, and GW combat and class development? 

And because they announced the game as being an ES mmo for ES fans. They didn't announce it as an ES mmo for DAoC and WoW fans.

Pretty nonsensical question you asked there.

 

So by that logic WoW still should have been MMORTS game? I disagree. I dont need Starcraft game to be a real time strategy game to enjoy it, in fact, I'd love to see a Starcraft shooter and also TES RTS game. There's absolutely no reason to be stuck with just one kind of gameplay on every game that has the same name or setting as some other game.

 

I'm not saying Skyrim online would have been bad, just saying that TES online most certainly does not have to be Skyrim with added MMO component. There's no rule saying that. Star Wars is a great example, there's dozens of different genres and gameplay styles under that name.

Just because a Developer can do a thing doesn't mean they should do it. In this case the TES I.P. is almost a sacred cow to many of it's fans, and even though some may think the "religion" is out of date does not mean the faithfull won't turn fanatic.

tldr: Some TES fans don't want "progress" to be made with their beloved IP, they want TES Online and only TES, nothing "new" or improved" added. Statements made by the Devs give me the impression they are going to get "creative".... and it's not just about a "Skyrim Online" vs. a "TES Online" argument, the impression is that the Devs are looking outside TES for inspiration. TES doesn't need any improvements or new inspiration to be a great MMO. It just needs a commitment from it's Devs to keep it pure to it's IP. Many Players have a hard time trusting any Dev Team with a great IP like TES, especially after how other Dev Teams botched up other great IPs. 

You used the Star Wars IP as an example of how a IP can be done right: The Star Wars IP is a perfect example of how to NOT manage a IP for MMO usage. I don't think any discussion needed on that topic.

A general atmosphere of doubt and dread is to be expected until TES Online launches and we all find out for certain exactly what the Devs cooked up.

Until I see the product for myself, make a character and play in it's world, I myself won't be hyping TES Online. To be honest it's way too risky to hype ANY MMO anymore.

  ThaneUlfgar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/11
Posts: 288

6/11/12 7:31:10 PM#90

I really don't think it needs to be exactly like previous Elder Schools games to be highly enjoyable.

So long as its a good game, I really could care less if they deviate or not. The jury is still out.

  firefly2003

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/16/08
Posts: 2585

6/11/12 7:39:12 PM#91
Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Zenimax Online can claim anything they want to right now.

What they actually DELIVER however, is something entirely unpredictable right now.

Getting hyped for this game, like its so common to do on this forum, is really something people should think twice about. Need I even speak of swtor?

Don't forget Aion, Age Of Conan, Warhammer, Star Trek Online, and currently Guild Wars 2 and the list of other games goes on...

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17594

6/11/12 8:05:29 PM#92
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Uhwop

The whole point of a ES mmo should have been to bring the ES gameplay to a persistant online world.

 

Why the whole point should have been that?

 Because it's supposed to be an ES mmo, not DAoC 2 with ToR solo story, Rift events, and GW combat and class development? 

And because they announced the game as being an ES mmo for ES fans. They didn't announce it as an ES mmo for DAoC and WoW fans.

Pretty nonsensical question you asked there.

Actually it's not a nonsensical question. It's an excellent question.

What makes an elder scrolls game? If you took the game play and slapped on a completely differnet IP then it would be a different experience. Take the world of Conan and slap on an open world experience and the game would be Conan.

In the Elder Scrolls, If you vistit morrowind, go to Seyda neen or head up to Gnisis, that has every real meaning.

There are factions, politics, characters, racism, all sorts of things.

however, "open world" game play in and of itself can be added to any IP.

Oh sure, players and fans of an elderscrolls game expect an open world and freedom. But the world is the manifistation of the elder scrolls flavor.

And of course that's what Zenimax is counting on.

Also remember, the general game play of say morrowind is different from Oblvion and even Skryim. I bet you'd have an argument on your hands as to which game play is the ultimate Elderscrolls experiene. Or there might even be some who pick Daggerfall.

 

  Morv

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/03
Posts: 334

6/11/12 9:29:37 PM#93
Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar

I really don't think it needs to be exactly like previous Elder Schools games to be highly enjoyable.

So long as its a good game, I really could care less if they deviate or not. The jury is still out.

It's too bad developers of MMOs have such a hard time with what you just pointed out.... Everywhere I look I see sheets of cookies.

  Dragim

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/04
Posts: 859

6/11/12 9:44:35 PM#94

No no no no no, people can't like this game, the hype has to remain low so no one is dissopointed when it comes out!

If everyone talks bad on it now, and continiously dislikes it, then maybe we will have a sleeper hit on our hands instead of another game not meeting everyone's expectations!

lol, I half joke, but the more people like it and the more people get pumped about it, the more people will be upset about it not meeting their expectations.

I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

6/11/12 10:08:29 PM#95
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Uhwop

The whole point of a ES mmo should have been to bring the ES gameplay to a persistant online world.

 

Why the whole point should have been that?

 Because it's supposed to be an ES mmo, not DAoC 2 with ToR solo story, Rift events, and GW combat and class development? 

And because they announced the game as being an ES mmo for ES fans. They didn't announce it as an ES mmo for DAoC and WoW fans.

Pretty nonsensical question you asked there.

Actually it's not a nonsensical question. It's an excellent question.

What makes an elder scrolls game? If you took the game play and slapped on a completely differnet IP then it would be a different experience. Take the world of Conan and slap on an open world experience and the game would be Conan.

In the Elder Scrolls, If you vistit morrowind, go to Seyda neen or head up to Gnisis, that has every real meaning.

There are factions, politics, characters, racism, all sorts of things.

however, "open world" game play in and of itself can be added to any IP.

Oh sure, players and fans of an elderscrolls game expect an open world and freedom. But the world is the manifistation of the elder scrolls flavor.

And of course that's what Zenimax is counting on.

Also remember, the general game play of say morrowind is different from Oblvion and even Skryim. I bet you'd have an argument on your hands as to which game play is the ultimate Elderscrolls experiene. Or there might even be some who pick Daggerfall.

 

 If rockstar said, "We're making the GTA mmo that the fans have always wanted."

Would expect that game to play like GTA or would you assume that the game would play like WoW? 

When they did the announcement that they were "making an ES mmo that the fans have always wanted" did you assume it would be a DAoC/ EQ2/ Rift/ GW hybrid or did you think it was going to play like Morrowind through Skyrim? 

From all the various forums, right down to Bethesdas very own, the ES fans seem to have the same thing in common, the gameplay is what made the ES games.  Bethesda creates virtual worls, and the gameplay supports that philosphy.  You can't really talk about the ES games and neatly break them down into defining segments. 

If you took an ES game and slapped a different name on it, it would probably be a huge hit.  Is this not effectively what ZeniOnine is doing in the reverse?  Slap a new name on ES gameplay and you bill it as an RPG that plays like ES, and lots of people are going to buy it.  ZeniOnline makes an MMO with the ES IP and they're slapping tradition mmo gameplay into and billing it as such, and lots of people are going to buy it.

 

I want to make this really clear.  I have no problem with many of the INDIVIDUAL mechanics that they're using.  I don't mind what they're saying about the combat, the way questing is described (phasing not included) doesn't bother me, the dungeon set up doesn't bother me, pvp doesn't bother me.

It's the themepark that bothers me.  That's not how an ES game works.  How you resolve combat, how you lay out quests, the story, none of that is relevant to what I expect of a game that was announced as being for ES fans who've always wanted an ES MMO. 

I want that quality sandbox mmo experience that I expected from an ES mmo, and that's exactly the kind of game everyone expected when they heard about the announcement.  Not a themepark thats just taking aspects of other themeparks and using the ES IP. 

 

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1965

6/11/12 10:41:14 PM#96
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by simplyawful

Spin it all you'd like, but when you make a TES game and remove the core elements to "MMORPIZGS" it, it's off the radar.

They might as well call it something entirely different, because it offers nothing for a TES game fan as those games were famous for their gameplay and not their story.

Disregard the notion of it being TES.  Base your judgement purely on the MMO and not the title.  Still though there is a little bit of TES hidden within just about every development system inside the game, from the weapon system to the block/stealth use.  Its hidden but suspend belief a bit like I have and judge the game on its merits and not on "this sint a TES clone".  Now if you dont like most of the elements of the game then sure be vocal.

The title looks exactly like almost every other game out there. The block/stealth use, non-public dungeons, no quest hubs, are just minor elements to an MMO, this is exactly like the overuse of voice acting in SWTOR -- a minor feature in an mmo. The main system in TESO remains the same, and that's what makes 75% of people leave within the first three months. You, in your OP, are just falling to the hype once again by putting too much attention to the minor elements, which won't matter in the long-run.

What do you consider the main features in an MMO?

 

I mean if active Combat

Target lock your enemy, move into range, activate skill to initiate an attact.  Instead of "agro" you'll block mobs to prevent them from attacking other party members.  You'll have synergized abilities kind of like EQ2 has.   The combat they're talking about is no more "active" then most every other MMO. 

non-linear Questing

Instead of having quest givers in a town, they moved the quest gives to the actual POI's that the town quest givers would direct you to anyways.  They'll have zones, and each zone will be be divided up into areas of level appropriate mobs and related quests.  You'll be able to do quests in each area in a non linear fasion in the same way that WoW would have you be able to go to your choice of hub and start questing.  EQ2 has quests all over the area, a lot of which don't require have followed any kind oa partern to get there. 

There's nothing new about the questing they're talking about in ESO, only the way they're talking about it.  The way they're talking about ESO questing is the exact same way you could talk about questing in EQ2. 

open-ended Exploration

There is no such thing as "open-ended exploration" in any MMO.  I don't know were you're getting this from to apply it to ESO.  When did they call exploration open-ended, and how do you make something that can end, open-ended?   Did they announce dynamically generated dungeons, or landmass that will provide unlimitted amounts of space to explore?  If they didn't then exploration in ESO can't be "open-ended".  Open-ended means that something has no end, and exploration in every MMO most deffinetly has an end to it; ESO will be no different.

skill based character skill systems.

You mean a level based class system, with skill levels?   They've already said that there are class levels.  Combine class levels with skill levels and what you get is skills that will have a level range based on the level of your class, and also dictate what skills become available to you.  Otherwise there wouldn't be any point in having class levels.  Of course I'm speculating.  However, they didn't say it was a "skill based character skill system", only that you'll get better with a skill or weapon the more you use it and that that will allow you to unlock new skills.  Sounds an awful lot like vanilla WoW to me.  I could use a multitude of weapons as a mage, and I even had a skill level for that weapon that required me to level the skill by using the weapon to become more effective with it. 

3 faction siege warfare and elements like dodging and stealth for all classes are not considered major functions of an MMO then I think you've set the bar a "wee" bit to high dont you think?

You mean 3 faction pvp that is confined to a single zone?  Or are we talking about the instanced battlegrounds that they said will be in the game?  Doesn't WoW also have a single zone dedicated to seige warfare, with resource control and capture points?  Isn't the only diference between these two systems that one is a persistant zone within the world, an the other one uses an instance?  In the end, it still comes down to a single area to fight in.

And then we've got the one guy that gets crowned emperor based on that person having contributed more then everyone else, and not because players actually chose him to be emperor.  Or the part were they said that being emperor actually doesn't mean anything, doesn't give that player any form of control, and is only for bragging rights.  Doesn't sound so "major" to me.

 

Fact is all the features that TESO are promoting have rarely been done and none all at once (cept minus GW2 but we all know its the savior of the genre so we will exclude it for the time being).

The fact is the features that ESO is promoting, along with all the core gameplay, is found in just about every major themepark release in the last 7 years. 

Do you think Rift is drastically different from WoW because they took a different approach to class building?  Do you think that AoC is drastically different from WoW because they took a different approach to hotbar combat?  Do you think that GW2 is going to be drastically different from WoW because they use events to give out quests?  Do you think ToR was drastically different from WoW because it utilized dialog choice during cutscens, I almost said cutscenes and then I remembered that WoW uses them.  Do you think that TERA is different from WoW because they chose aim based combat instead of tab targetting? 

 ESO is still built around quest grinding, they've been talking about it for the last couple of weeks now.  They haven't been talking about all the divergent gameplay that everyone loved about the ES series, they've been talking about questing.

They've talked about solo personal stories that you do alone.

They've talked about the use of phasing to tell stories and alter the world based on what quest you've done.

They've talked about trinity combat mechanics.

They've talked about classes.

They've talked about single zone faction pvp and instanced battlegrounds.

 

Some of you people get so wrapped up in the WAY they talk about features that you don't even notice what it is they're actually saying.  They have not described anything that resembles an ES game, they just keep saying that they threw in this little alteration to a basic themepark mechanic so that it'll look like something that resembles an ES feature, and you guys latch on to it. 

Just because they focus on talking about sprinting and blocking doesn't mean that it's not tab targetting/ hotbar combat.  Just because they focus on "no quest hubs" doesn't mean that there aren't quest hubs because they mince words to gloss over saying that they moved the quest hubs (which one of the developers literally said in one of the video interviews "we moved the quest hubs"), nor does it mean that ESO won't be all about "doing quests" to level, like every other themepark.

Just because they very breifly mention that there will be raids, instanced dugneons with standard difficulty or heroic, instanced battlegrounds, or tank/ healer/ dps group composition, doesn't mean they aren't core features of the game.  It just means they're intentionally avoiding talking about these things so that the game sounds more like something it isn't.

ESO is going to be a standard themepark MMO, no different from Rift, EQ2, GW2, or WoW.  It's being built on the same core features and mechanics as every other themepark MMO, but they're using wording and phrases, just like every other studio does, to make it sound like they're not doing that.

 

Edit: TL;DR,  A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO.  ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets.  It's just more of the same old same old. 

There are a lot of people, me included, who aren't looking for every damn new MMO to have action combat or to re-invent the wheel.  There are also a lot of us who like the RPG part of the equation, you know, the part that contributes things like stats and dice rolls.  What pisses me off is that people like you are the ones invading our genre and fucking it up in the name of your idea of evolution and acting like it's the RPGers' fault that the genre isn't moving fast enough in the direction you think it should go.  There's a reason why RPG's started out the way they did, it was the haven we gamers created to get away from every god damn first person shooter and arcade game that dominated the whole gaming industry.  Now you guys want to take that away from us too.

  deathshroud

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1392

6/12/12 1:49:11 AM#97
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by simplyawful

Spin it all you'd like, but when you make a TES game and remove the core elements to "MMORPIZGS" it, it's off the radar.

They might as well call it something entirely different, because it offers nothing for a TES game fan as those games were famous for their gameplay and not their story.

Disregard the notion of it being TES.  Base your judgement purely on the MMO and not the title.  Still though there is a little bit of TES hidden within just about every development system inside the game, from the weapon system to the block/stealth use.  Its hidden but suspend belief a bit like I have and judge the game on its merits and not on "this sint a TES clone".  Now if you dont like most of the elements of the game then sure be vocal.

The title looks exactly like almost every other game out there. The block/stealth use, non-public dungeons, no quest hubs, are just minor elements to an MMO, this is exactly like the overuse of voice acting in SWTOR -- a minor feature in an mmo. The main system in TESO remains the same, and that's what makes 75% of people leave within the first three months. You, in your OP, are just falling to the hype once again by putting too much attention to the minor elements, which won't matter in the long-run.

What do you consider the main features in an MMO?

 

I mean if active Combat

Target lock your enemy, move into range, activate skill to initiate an attact.  Instead of "agro" you'll block mobs to prevent them from attacking other party members.  You'll have synergized abilities kind of like EQ2 has.   The combat they're talking about is no more "active" then most every other MMO. 

non-linear Questing

Instead of having quest givers in a town, they moved the quest gives to the actual POI's that the town quest givers would direct you to anyways.  They'll have zones, and each zone will be be divided up into areas of level appropriate mobs and related quests.  You'll be able to do quests in each area in a non linear fasion in the same way that WoW would have you be able to go to your choice of hub and start questing.  EQ2 has quests all over the area, a lot of which don't require have followed any kind oa partern to get there. 

There's nothing new about the questing they're talking about in ESO, only the way they're talking about it.  The way they're talking about ESO questing is the exact same way you could talk about questing in EQ2. 

open-ended Exploration

There is no such thing as "open-ended exploration" in any MMO.  I don't know were you're getting this from to apply it to ESO.  When did they call exploration open-ended, and how do you make something that can end, open-ended?   Did they announce dynamically generated dungeons, or landmass that will provide unlimitted amounts of space to explore?  If they didn't then exploration in ESO can't be "open-ended".  Open-ended means that something has no end, and exploration in every MMO most deffinetly has an end to it; ESO will be no different.

skill based character skill systems.

You mean a level based class system, with skill levels?   They've already said that there are class levels.  Combine class levels with skill levels and what you get is skills that will have a level range based on the level of your class, and also dictate what skills become available to you.  Otherwise there wouldn't be any point in having class levels.  Of course I'm speculating.  However, they didn't say it was a "skill based character skill system", only that you'll get better with a skill or weapon the more you use it and that that will allow you to unlock new skills.  Sounds an awful lot like vanilla WoW to me.  I could use a multitude of weapons as a mage, and I even had a skill level for that weapon that required me to level the skill by using the weapon to become more effective with it. 

3 faction siege warfare and elements like dodging and stealth for all classes are not considered major functions of an MMO then I think you've set the bar a "wee" bit to high dont you think?

You mean 3 faction pvp that is confined to a single zone?  Or are we talking about the instanced battlegrounds that they said will be in the game?  Doesn't WoW also have a single zone dedicated to seige warfare, with resource control and capture points?  Isn't the only diference between these two systems that one is a persistant zone within the world, an the other one uses an instance?  In the end, it still comes down to a single area to fight in.

And then we've got the one guy that gets crowned emperor based on that person having contributed more then everyone else, and not because players actually chose him to be emperor.  Or the part were they said that being emperor actually doesn't mean anything, doesn't give that player any form of control, and is only for bragging rights.  Doesn't sound so "major" to me.

 

Fact is all the features that TESO are promoting have rarely been done and none all at once (cept minus GW2 but we all know its the savior of the genre so we will exclude it for the time being).

The fact is the features that ESO is promoting, along with all the core gameplay, is found in just about every major themepark release in the last 7 years. 

Do you think Rift is drastically different from WoW because they took a different approach to class building?  Do you think that AoC is drastically different from WoW because they took a different approach to hotbar combat?  Do you think that GW2 is going to be drastically different from WoW because they use events to give out quests?  Do you think ToR was drastically different from WoW because it utilized dialog choice during cutscens, I almost said cutscenes and then I remembered that WoW uses them.  Do you think that TERA is different from WoW because they chose aim based combat instead of tab targetting? 

 ESO is still built around quest grinding, they've been talking about it for the last couple of weeks now.  They haven't been talking about all the divergent gameplay that everyone loved about the ES series, they've been talking about questing.

They've talked about solo personal stories that you do alone.

They've talked about the use of phasing to tell stories and alter the world based on what quest you've done.

They've talked about trinity combat mechanics.

They've talked about classes.

They've talked about single zone faction pvp and instanced battlegrounds.

 

Some of you people get so wrapped up in the WAY they talk about features that you don't even notice what it is they're actually saying.  They have not described anything that resembles an ES game, they just keep saying that they threw in this little alteration to a basic themepark mechanic so that it'll look like something that resembles an ES feature, and you guys latch on to it. 

Just because they focus on talking about sprinting and blocking doesn't mean that it's not tab targetting/ hotbar combat.  Just because they focus on "no quest hubs" doesn't mean that there aren't quest hubs because they mince words to gloss over saying that they moved the quest hubs (which one of the developers literally said in one of the video interviews "we moved the quest hubs"), nor does it mean that ESO won't be all about "doing quests" to level, like every other themepark.

Just because they very breifly mention that there will be raids, instanced dugneons with standard difficulty or heroic, instanced battlegrounds, or tank/ healer/ dps group composition, doesn't mean they aren't core features of the game.  It just means they're intentionally avoiding talking about these things so that the game sounds more like something it isn't.

ESO is going to be a standard themepark MMO, no different from Rift, EQ2, GW2, or WoW.  It's being built on the same core features and mechanics as every other themepark MMO, but they're using wording and phrases, just like every other studio does, to make it sound like they're not doing that.

 

Edit: TL;DR,  A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO.  ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets.  It's just more of the same old same old. 

There are a lot of people, me included, who aren't looking for every damn new MMO to have action combat or to re-invent the wheel.  There are also a lot of us who like the RPG part of the equation, you know, the part that contributes things like stats and dice rolls.  What pisses me off is that people like you are the ones invading our genre and fucking it up in the name of your idea of evolution and acting like it's the RPGers' fault that the genre isn't moving fast enough in the direction you think it should go.  There's a reason why RPG's started out the way they did, it was the haven we gamers created to get away from every god damn first person shooter and arcade game that dominated the whole gaming industry.  Now you guys want to take that away from us too.

heres a video of the way mmorpgs started out my friend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO4k_xaVxUQ

 

and i dare say that this is closer to a TES game than TESO will ever be.

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  Kuinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 2101

6/12/12 4:48:55 AM#98
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Uhwop

The whole point of a ES mmo should have been to bring the ES gameplay to a persistant online world.

 

Why the whole point should have been that?

 Because it's supposed to be an ES mmo, not DAoC 2 with ToR solo story, Rift events, and GW combat and class development? 

And because they announced the game as being an ES mmo for ES fans. They didn't announce it as an ES mmo for DAoC and WoW fans.

Pretty nonsensical question you asked there.

 

So by that logic WoW still should have been MMORTS game? I disagree. I dont need Starcraft game to be a real time strategy game to enjoy it, in fact, I'd love to see a Starcraft shooter and also TES RTS game. There's absolutely no reason to be stuck with just one kind of gameplay on every game that has the same name or setting as some other game.

 

I'm not saying Skyrim online would have been bad, just saying that TES online most certainly does not have to be Skyrim with added MMO component. There's no rule saying that. Star Wars is a great example, there's dozens of different genres and gameplay styles under that name.


You used the Star Wars IP as an example of how a IP can be done right: The Star Wars IP is a perfect example of how to NOT manage a IP for MMO usage. I don't think any discussion needed on that topic.

 

Until I see the product for myself, make a character and play in it's world, I myself won't be hyping TES Online. To be honest it's way too risky to hype ANY MMO anymore.

 

No I didnt use SW IP as example of how to manage it as MMO. I used it as a perfect example how it's completely possible to use an IP over several different gameplay styles (FPS, RTS, action, racing) since some of the TES fans seem to think that an IP should stick with just one kind of style. Many of the SW games are crap, however, many of them also are great, it's up to the devs.

 

I'm not hyping TESO either untill I get to see it and learn everything about it too, I'm just not having a problem with this particular "issue" here.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

6/12/12 7:29:23 AM#99
Originally posted by Uhwop

 

 It's a new PvP zone, even though it's just a mirror of an existing zone. 

It wasn't a statement of good or bad, it was about trion understanding that you have to constantly add to the game.  Themeparks derive there longevity from constantly adding new contant, or at least trying to.  Not from providing depth or truelly free-form gameplay that can take many, many years to exhoust. 

Some players are always going to run out of content in a themepark, by there very nature that shouldn't happen in a sandbox.  It's the difference between providing a vrtual world (the ES RPGS) or providing a virtual game (what will be ESO).  The former is based on setting you free, while the later is based on trying to keep up with the consumption of content.

Factions REDUCE content by disallowing you access to areas of the map because of your faction. See some MMO players see that as a 'feature' people who play open world MMOs see factions as nothing more than a restriction. Not a feature.

 

Do you know why?

ADDED: I would like to point out that Fallen Earth has 6 factions. 3 faction system is far from a 'feature' worth pointing out as being clever new innovation, which they have.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

6/12/12 1:14:08 PM#100
Originally posted by Vorthanion
 

There are a lot of people, me included, who aren't looking for every damn new MMO to have action combat or to re-invent the wheel.  There are also a lot of us who like the RPG part of the equation, you know, the part that contributes things like stats and dice rolls.  What pisses me off is that people like you are the ones invading our genre and fucking it up in the name of your idea of evolution and acting like it's the RPGers' fault that the genre isn't moving fast enough in the direction you think it should go.  There's a reason why RPG's started out the way they did, it was the haven we gamers created to get away from every god damn first person shooter and arcade game that dominated the whole gaming industry.  Now you guys want to take that away from us too.

 There are also some of us that will read what we respond to before we write a response, so that what we write actually has some bearing upon what we're responding to.

Not a single thing you wrote had anything what-so-ever to do with anything I stated.  Not a thing! 

I'd really like you to go back and read what I wrote and then point out the part were I said that ESO should have FPS twitch combat, because it's not there.  It's not there because I didn't write it. 

In fact, I've said on several occasions, in multiple threads, that hotbar combat is fine with me.  You see, I can't do FPS stuff with a mouse and keyboard anymore, my nerves don't work properly. 

 

And you're wrong.  RPG's are not required to have dice rolls, or any defined form of combat mechanic.  Quit trying to justify WHAT YOU PREFER.  LARP's are RPG, they do not all use dice rolls, there are PnP RPG's that don't use dice rolls either.  Your preference does not equal fact.  The only thing that RPG's almost always have in common, are character stats, and that those stats are used to govern the outcome of an encounter or situatiion.  Those stats can be aplied to dice rolls, stat comparison for non random engagement outcomes.

You are old enough to know that there are oldschool RPG's that were FPV with no dice rolls.

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