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General Discussion  » Tides have turned: Consider me sold at this point

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123 posts found
  Isane

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/06
Posts: 2691

"Some do , Some don''t , Others just cry"

Jean Sali

6/10/12 7:29:42 PM#61
Originally posted by Uhwop

Edit: TL;DR,  A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO.  ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets.  It's just more of the same old same old. 


The Genre is the Genre and if you don't like it well I don't really care. What is wrong is that most releases do not even fit the original MMO theme, anything twitch based does not need a large world just and Arena and a number of maps.

Any MMORPG that is well implemented ; Has Longevity(2 years +)/Proper Gameplay(Combat,Crafting,politics)/Community then it starts to be of interest.

Do the complaints here really matter , well actually they don't.... Will they illicit smiles from readers maybe but little more.

________________________________________________________
SWTOR and COS games that could deliver !!

  jiveturkey12

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/04
Posts: 1284

6/10/12 7:41:31 PM#62
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Whoever said "The whole point of  TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no.  Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there.  Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.

I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.

where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?

All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.

Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...

But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of  the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.

So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?

Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".

In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...

 

Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...

 

 

They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the  IP.


Actually it had everything to do with the IP because before the prequel trilogy the Star Wars Universe wasnt just based on jedi being the most powerful thing known to man, a bounty hunter could kill just as effectively, a smuggler could outsmart a sith lord, a dancer could choke Jabba the hutt to death, and a few bothans could die to bring down an entire empire. Star Wars atthat time in the IP WAS about EVERYONE not just jedis. And even though Uncle Owen may have been the lowest on the list he still died defending luke, a kid that wasnt even his own, and played hisown part in the saga.

Say what you want about SWG but it stayed true to the lore of the era it was based on. It didnt Cut corners like ESO or TOR and set the game THOUSANDS of years before anything happened in thes stories and you know why? Cause the developers obviously cared about continuity and were willing to make the game appropriately, how it was represented n the stories we grew up enjoying for hours. And you know what the devs did beyond that? Yes Your right they made up classes and even put Tera Kasi into the story which was Expanded universe star Wars, along with the Chiss. But they did so without trying to break the boundries of what made it Star Wars.

 

ESO has NO CONTINUITY! They are locking 3 races per faction, which was NEVER represented in ANY of the ES games, they are taking away imperials as a race all together, which defiently wasnt a race to give up Lore wise. On top of all this the game doesnt have a Mature setting, no blood, obviously no links to slavery or sexuality or any other Taboo subject. AND just to make it into a great well rounded package, You cant even freely develop skills as you explore the game.

Im sorry you can say your an ES fan and that you dont care about those other things, but I can garuntee the one thing that nobody expects from an Elder Scrolls games for is being limited to One class doing One job. Yes they have said its going to be loose what weapons you can weild, but that doesnt cahnge the fact that if I start off as a mage, im never going to be a warrior someday if I want, or Im never going to get better at jumping simply by doing the action of jumping, or getting better at fighting with axes through actually participating in battle with an axe!

 

No one asking for ESO to make everyone "Owens", because the game is about heroes, but its about being the hero YOU want to be, its an individualist's game, and now its just going to be another linear ride for EVERYONE YAY!!! Lets market Everything and never take risks woohoo!

 

Youknow whats funny is all the people saying if your an investor your not going to put your money on a concept thats neverbeen tried or hasnt ever worked???

 

So none of you have ever heard of a bull market economy??? Taking risks is the EXACT way people make money in the stock market, but thats when they want the risk cause they want to win big, thatswhen they have full confidence in what theyare doing no matter what. ESO has no confidence, you can see it from the horrible awkward look Paul Sage always has on his face. Watch the yogscast video with him and you can tell how off guard he is whenever they ask him a question, he does good with people who are being payed by G4 or IGN to be straightforward and not throw any lowballers his way, but when you see him with th yogscast guys (Real down to earth gamers).

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/10/12 8:28:04 PM#63
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Whoever said "The whole point of  TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no.  Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there.  Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.

I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.

where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?

All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.

Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...

But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of  the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.

So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?

Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".

In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...

 

Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...

 

 

They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the  IP.


Actually it had everything to do with the IP because before the prequel trilogy the Star Wars Universe wasnt just based on jedi being the most powerful thing known to man, a bounty hunter could kill just as effectively, a smuggler could outsmart a sith lord, a dancer could choke Jabba the hutt to death, and a few bothans could die to bring down an entire empire. Star Wars atthat time in the IP WAS about EVERYONE not just jedis. And even though Uncle Owen may have been the lowest on the list he still died defending luke, a kid that wasnt even his own, and played hisown part in the saga.

Say what you want about SWG but it stayed true to the lore of the era it was based on. It didnt Cut corners like ESO or TOR and set the game THOUSANDS of years before anything happened in thes stories and you know why? Cause the developers obviously cared about continuity and were willing to make the game appropriately, how it was represented n the stories we grew up enjoying for hours. And you know what the devs did beyond that? Yes Your right they made up classes and even put Tera Kasi into the story which was Expanded universe star Wars, along with the Chiss. But they did so without trying to break the boundries of what made it Star Wars.

 

ESO has NO CONTINUITY! They are locking 3 races per faction, which was NEVER represented in ANY of the ES games, they are taking away imperials as a race all together, which defiently wasnt a race to give up Lore wise. On top of all this the game doesnt have a Mature setting, no blood, obviously no links to slavery or sexuality or any other Taboo subject. AND just to make it into a great well rounded package, You cant even freely develop skills as you explore the game.

Im sorry you can say your an ES fan and that you dont care about those other things, but I can garuntee the one thing that nobody expects from an Elder Scrolls games for is being limited to One class doing One job. Yes they have said its going to be loose what weapons you can weild, but that doesnt cahnge the fact that if I start off as a mage, im never going to be a warrior someday if I want, or Im never going to get better at jumping simply by doing the action of jumping, or getting better at fighting with axes through actually participating in battle with an axe!

 

No one asking for ESO to make everyone "Owens", because the game is about heroes, but its about being the hero YOU want to be, its an individualist's game, and now its just going to be another linear ride for EVERYONE YAY!!! Lets market Everything and never take risks woohoo!

 

Youknow whats funny is all the people saying if your an investor your not going to put your money on a concept thats neverbeen tried or hasnt ever worked???

 

So none of you have ever heard of a bull market economy??? Taking risks is the EXACT way people make money in the stock market, but thats when they want the risk cause they want to win big, thatswhen they have full confidence in what theyare doing no matter what. ESO has no confidence, you can see it from the horrible awkward look Paul Sage always has on his face. Watch the yogscast video with him and you can tell how off guard he is whenever they ask him a question, he does good with people who are being payed by G4 or IGN to be straightforward and not throw any lowballers his way, but when you see him with th yogscast guys (Real down to earth gamers).

Really? It stayed true to the lore?

 

Smugglers that dont smuggle. Jedi that far outnumber  the amount that were supposed to be around? Luke taking a break from battling Vader so he can sit in front of an ent?

 

No, it didnt stay true to the IP. The OT was about adventure, it had jack n shit to do with the 15 mins total screen time,spread across 3 movies,  given to docs/ents, and Owen, and yet they were very much central to SWG.

 

I just dont get why you MMO sandboxers dont get together, and kickstart the game you guys want. Invest YOUR money, if it is such a good thing. Quit trying to spends other folks money. You can either play what is made, or look elsewhere. What ya wont get is this game being made the way you think it should be.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1028

6/10/12 8:44:32 PM#64

Not enough to convince me this isn't yet another typical gear grind progression game that will be a huge letdown for most people.

 

If you enjoyed WoW I'm sure you'll enjoy this game. If you disliked WoW I bet its safe to say you will dislike this game, as well.

 

For those of us wishing for fresh ideas that TES should have brought to the table  its just a huge disappointment.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2621

6/10/12 9:08:28 PM#65
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Whoever said "The whole point of  TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no.  Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there.  Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.

I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.

where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?

All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.

Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...

But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of  the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.

So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?

Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".

In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...

 

Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...

 

 

They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the  IP. The only thing I remember in the OT even somewhat related was in ESB, when they were placing sensors on Hoth. Sure dont remember harvestors.

It really is a non issue, but dont call out a game, when another was doing it as well.

Here's the difference:

SW was primarily a movie IP, people played SWG in the SW world, there was nothing to feel let down about in so far as the gameplay did not stay true to the IP, because the IP was movie based and had no gameplay.

TES on the otherhand is different. TESO is being based on the IP of already existing comp games, and further, games that have a consistant set of features and gameplay elements, which the TESO game is clearly and intentionaly deviating from.

Not all SW fans would object to SWG based on the gameplay, because there was no expectation that it would play in any given way.

When TES fans look at TESO, they expect a game to be like "the elder scrolls" games, because that is what the IP is. And mostly what TESO will not be, according to the devs themselves. Otherwise, the damn devs should not even bother trying to use the TES IP and a gimmick to sell boxes.

 

(And for the record, there was nothing wrong with the PvE in original SWG, and in the later game, it was not even possible to plant harvesters on Hoth, that was an instanced only planet... although I do recall seeing mosture harvestors on Tat and "fusion power generators" on Hoth in the movies...)

 

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/10/12 11:06:19 PM#66
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Whoever said "The whole point of  TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no.  Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there.  Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.

I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.

where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?

All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.

Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...

But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of  the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.

So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?

Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".

In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...

 

Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...

 

 

They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the  IP. The only thing I remember in the OT even somewhat related was in ESB, when they were placing sensors on Hoth. Sure dont remember harvestors.

It really is a non issue, but dont call out a game, when another was doing it as well.

Here's the difference:

SW was primarily a movie IP, people played SWG in the SW world, there was nothing to feel let down about in so far as the gameplay did not stay true to the IP, because the IP was movie based and had no gameplay.

TES on the otherhand is different. TESO is being based on the IP of already existing comp games, and further, games that have a consistant set of features and gameplay elements, which the TESO game is clearly and intentionaly deviating from.

Not all SW fans would object to SWG based on the gameplay, because there was no expectation that it would play in any given way.

When TES fans look at TESO, they expect a game to be like "the elder scrolls" games, because that is what the IP is. And mostly what TESO will not be, according to the devs themselves. Otherwise, the damn devs should not even bother trying to use the TES IP and a gimmick to sell boxes.

 

(And for the record, there was nothing wrong with the PvE in original SWG, and in the later game, it was not even possible to plant harvesters on Hoth, that was an instanced only planet... although I do recall seeing mosture harvestors on Tat and "fusion power generators" on Hoth in the movies...)

 

Look man, I am really trying to keep it civil here. So I hope you arent taking it  personal like.

 

That said, you have to be fucking kidding me to state that PVE in SWG was cool. PVE in EQ was cool.....PVE in SWg was an afterthought. Kostor reserved the land for housing/harvestors. The mention of moisture evaperators was cute....how much screen time was that again?

 

The power generators? Those got violated faster than most posters would be if they spent a night in prison. Once again, the SW IP sold to us in the 70s/80s was action/adventure.....not "thank you for shopping at Owen-Mart."

 

 

No expectattions on a SW game? How many video games were centered on Owen prior to SWG?

 

Cmon man, you are defending one, and saying dont do it to another. There is nothing wrong with them doing what theyre doing except in certain folks minds.

 

I have no dog in this show, as I wont be playing ESO. That said, I think several of you are way the fuck off base. When they change the SP games, then you have cause for concern IMO, and I will be right there with ya saying something. Yet when I do, it wont be with pitch forks out.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2621

6/11/12 1:15:23 AM#67
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Burntvet

Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...

But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of  the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.

So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?

Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".

In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...

 

Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...

 

 

They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the  IP. The only thing I remember in the OT even somewhat related was in ESB, when they were placing sensors on Hoth. Sure dont remember harvestors.

It really is a non issue, but dont call out a game, when another was doing it as well.

Here's the difference:

SW was primarily a movie IP, people played SWG in the SW world, there was nothing to feel let down about in so far as the gameplay did not stay true to the IP, because the IP was movie based and had no gameplay.

TES on the otherhand is different. TESO is being based on the IP of already existing comp games, and further, games that have a consistant set of features and gameplay elements, which the TESO game is clearly and intentionaly deviating from.

Not all SW fans would object to SWG based on the gameplay, because there was no expectation that it would play in any given way.

When TES fans look at TESO, they expect a game to be like "the elder scrolls" games, because that is what the IP is. And mostly what TESO will not be, according to the devs themselves. Otherwise, the damn devs should not even bother trying to use the TES IP and a gimmick to sell boxes.

 

(And for the record, there was nothing wrong with the PvE in original SWG, and in the later game, it was not even possible to plant harvesters on Hoth, that was an instanced only planet... although I do recall seeing mosture harvestors on Tat and "fusion power generators" on Hoth in the movies...)

 


That said, you have to be fucking kidding me to state that PVE in SWG was cool. PVE in EQ was cool.....PVE in SWg was an afterthought. Kostor reserved the land for housing/harvestors. The mention of moisture evaperators was cute....how much screen time was that again?

 The power generators? Those got violated faster than most posters would be if they spent a night in prison. Once again, the SW IP sold to us in the 70s/80s was action/adventure.....not "thank you for shopping at Owen-Mart."

 No expectattions on a SW game? How many video games were centered on Owen prior to SWG?

 

 

I have no dog in this show, as I wont be playing ESO. That said, I think several of you are way the fuck off base. When they change the SP games, then you have cause for concern IMO, and I will be right there with ya saying something. Yet when I do, it wont be with pitch forks out.

Whatever man, it is easily known by your post history that you didn't like SWG much, and maybe you don't like games with a heavy economic sideand that's fine, but no can say SWG didn't reflect the world you saw in the movies (even if you wanted to be Uncle Owen), i.e. sticking to the IP as much as they could when MAKING A COMPUTER GAME.

The difference with TESO is they ALREADY have the computer games and game play, and that IS the IP, and fans of that kind of play are looking for that. And that is what these Zenimax guys are counting on to sell box: the TES gameplay that fans like enough to buy millions and millions of boxes. Only problem it is not going to be in TESO, and they have said that.

Think TES fans play that series because of the story or characters? Not effin likely.

 

And that is the whole and entire point: The elder scrolls game mechanics and gameplay people liked enough to buy millions of copies of, will definitively NOT be in the game these Zenimax guys are putting out.

And that is fair criticism, because it is they that want to put TES on the box, but not in the box.

 

(And I liked guildhunting Krayts in the old days, with the 20 man groups - was risky, and the NS elders and the rest, while the PvE was not spectacular in SWG, it had its good points... and DJMs in the old days when they could wipe a group like nothing, those were cool)

 

  IAmMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/08
Posts: 1310

6/11/12 1:35:57 AM#68

  If it was something really different it would have come out in their first brag reveal when they expected a huge positive reaction ,but instead got a backlash of huge disappointment. Ever since then they've been back peddling with a lot of spin.
 

How ever they spin it the backbone and foundation of this game is based on the WOW era a lot have become jaded with. TES will release and shrink down to yet another niche MMO fighting for subs.

 
It will be another Warhammer online all over again! TES players want TES and not World of Elders Scrolls with a 3 out of 10 for innovation. When will suits realize it more of a gamble to copy than to risk the development money on something that's pushing the boat out with innovation and fresh ideas in this day an age?
  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 3694

6/11/12 8:18:59 AM#69
Originally posted by Burntvet

The difference with TESO is they ALREADY have the computer games and game play, and that IS the IP, and fans of that kind of play are looking for that. And that is what these Zenimax guys are counting on to sell box: the TES gameplay that fans like enough to buy millions and millions of boxes. Only problem it is not going to be in TESO, and they have said that.

Think TES fans play that series because of the story or characters? Not effin likely.

 

And that is the whole and entire point: The elder scrolls game mechanics and gameplay people liked enough to buy millions of copies of, will definitively NOT be in the game these Zenimax guys are putting out.

And that is fair criticism, because it is they that want to put TES on the box, but not in the box.

 

(And I liked guildhunting Krayts in the old days, with the 20 man groups - was risky, and the NS elders and the rest, while the PvE was not spectacular in SWG, it had its good points... and DJMs in the old days when they could wipe a group like nothing, those were cool)

 

word:

I play TES for the game play. I have a big fan, have played hunderns of hours of Morrowind and Skyrim and I really have no idea what the story line is. I usually try to do few quests.

What TES Online is to the TES series is similar to making Darth Vader the good guy in in SWG.

does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!?

  Gruug

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 1093

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

6/11/12 8:35:50 AM#70

I have read many though not all of the posts in this thread. And while I agree with some, I also understand the point of view of the others. However, no matter what the opinion, NO ONE is going to find if they truly like the game UNTIL they get their hands on it. All we are going to see until then is a lot of HYPE and speculation and opinion. All of those are fine but they are not enough to become so emotionally invested into what is currently effectively vapor-ware. And before one of those emotionally invested person jumps on that "vapor-ware" comment, understand I am not saying it will be vapor-ware. I am saying you have not got your hands on the finished product. So, ease ups folks.

Let's party like it is 1863!

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 3694

6/11/12 9:12:17 AM#71
Originally posted by Gruug

I have read many though not all of the posts in this thread. And while I agree with some, I also understand the point of view of the others. However, no matter what the opinion, NO ONE is going to find if they truly like the game UNTIL they get their hands on it. All we are going to see until then is a lot of HYPE and speculation and opinion. All of those are fine but they are not enough to become so emotionally invested into what is currently effectively vapor-ware. And before one of those emotionally invested person jumps on that "vapor-ware" comment, understand I am not saying it will be vapor-ware. I am saying you have not got your hands on the finished product. So, ease ups folks.

There are hyper specific items that we do know before the game comes out.

taking a movie for example:

interviewer: 'so your next Dark Knight movie will have some action scenes?'

producer:'no this one will not have any action scenes at all we cant really do that the way viewers want'

given that its not exactly an unreasonable stretch to assume that the movie will not have action scenes.

Just like TES Online will not be in FPS view, will not have FPS combat, will not have player housing, will be classed FOCUSED and will have forced factions.

 

 

does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!?

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 913

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

6/11/12 9:19:47 AM#72
Originally posted by Isane
Originally posted by Uhwop

Edit: TL;DR,  A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO.  ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets.  It's just more of the same old same old. 


The Genre is the Genre and if you don't like it well I don't really care.

Developers and players alike have been using this excuse for I don't know how long. The genre of MMO's doesn't have to be limited to tab targeting, quest hubbing, instanced or regulated PvP, action bars, raiding or dungeon crawling. It's okay that titles have different mechanics, there's nothing to be afraid of.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 3694

6/11/12 9:32:21 AM#73
Originally posted by Lawlmonster
Originally posted by Isane
Originally posted by Uhwop

Edit: TL;DR,  A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO.  ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets.  It's just more of the same old same old. 


The Genre is the Genre and if you don't like it well I don't really care.

Developers and players alike have been using this excuse for I don't know how long. The genre of MMO's doesn't have to be limited to tab targeting, quest hubbing, instanced or regulated PvP, action bars, raiding or dungeon crawling. It's okay that titles have different mechanics, there's nothing to be afraid of.

not only does it not have to be it isnt depsite what anyone says. There are RPG MMOs out there that do not do that.

does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!?

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1354

6/11/12 3:40:43 PM#74
Originally posted by Isane
Originally posted by Uhwop

Edit: TL;DR,  A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO.  ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets.  It's just more of the same old same old. 


The Genre is the Genre and if you don't like it well I don't really care. What is wrong is that most releases do not even fit the original MMO theme, anything twitch based does not need a large world just and Arena and a number of maps.

Any MMORPG that is well implemented ; Has Longevity(2 years +)/Proper Gameplay(Combat,Crafting,politics)/Community then it starts to be of interest.

Do the complaints here really matter , well actually they don't.... Will they illicit smiles from readers maybe but little more.

 I'm not really sure I understand the intent of your post here, or what it is that you're trying to convey.

I have no problem with themepark MMOs as long as they're good, but I do understand that there is a pretty big flaw in them.  Longevity is entirely based on the developers ability to produce new content, and then to create content that is fresh so that it doesn't appeal to a single group of players.  Very few themeparks seem capable of doing this. 

Blizzard is learning, that's why they're doing things like Pokepets in the next expansin, and why they've diversified their pvp battleground options.

Trion is learning, that's why they're doing the 3 faction pvp and housing slivers.

But in the end it doesn't matter how much you diversify the gameplay or how much new content you put out to increase the longevity of the game.  In the end a themepark MMO is a themepark MMO.  You can't really point to one and say that it's nothing like another.  They're very rigid in their structure.  Level to max level, do end game or not, partake in whatever diversions or minigames they have to offer. 

ESO has the same questing you find in EQ2, the same style of combat you find in GW/ GW2, oblivion gates that you find in Rift, solo storylines that you find in ToR, 3 faction pvp that you find in DAoC. 

People are going to play it, they are going to walk away from it after a short period of time, and they ARE going to say i've been there and done that.  It's the halmark of a themepark MMO.  They are not built on divergent or emmergent gameplay, they aren't built on depth, they aren't built on providing a different kind of game.  They're developed on the bedrock of giving you the same content you find in other themeparks, not creativety or originality. 

NOTHING in ESO is new or different.  They're doing what every other company that made a themepark did.  Trying to take what THEY THINK worked in other MMO's and applying that to their game.  The end result is always the same.  An experience that you've already had, and that NEVER amounts to longevity. 

Most people do not leave WoW, and lets face it, this is where most of the players they expect to get are coming from, are not looking for another WoW.  Most of them stop playing MMO's or want something new.  Most of those people are going to come away from ESO with exact same impression, I did this already.

 

I'm not looking for anyone to "care".  I'm expressing my frustration at an industry that refuses to learn.  This is an industry headed by people who are showing an inability to evolve.  They're very unispiring, uncreative, and INCREDIBLY unoriginal. 

A themepark is a complete 180 of what an ES game is.  If you're not going to be creative or original, and they're not doig eitehr of those things at ZeniOnline, then at least do it the way an ES fan would expect an ES mmo to play.

But we all know that the typical themepark mmo makes more money in the short term, so why worry about creating a sandbox that would probably require long term growth.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 3694

6/11/12 3:53:53 PM#75
Originally posted by Uhwop

Trion is learning, that's why they're doing the 3 faction pvp and housing slivers.

I keep bringing this up but without questing it specifically.

What I dont understand about a 2,3,4,5,6 faction system is this. Why not have clans declare war on clans. Simple, no factions but the effect is tons of factions.

Why would that be not as good as a 3 faction system or better?

does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!?

  solarine

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/06
Posts: 1204

6/11/12 3:57:13 PM#76
Originally posted by DarkPony

Pretty much in the same boat. There have been a lot of positive aspects surfacing to offset the initial "TES mmorpgification" shock. But I'm still a bit wary. I need to know more on a wide range of aspects before they'll win me over but at the moment I'm cautiously optimistic realizing that this might not be a typical TES game with typical TES values but perhaps a good game on its own merrits.

 

 

In the same boat as well and I won't be surprised if in early 2013 it's begun to look like a pretty crowded boat. :)

Many of us have played the TES games and thought "Why couldn't MMOs be more like this?" So when this game was announced, the fact that it seemed more like it was going "the MMO way" rather than "the TES way" was a bit of a slap in the face for this reason more than anything else. Many of us saw the opportunity of having a "TES, only massively online" missed as a rather unfortunate thing to happen to this genre that's gone a bit stale recently.

On the other hand, fact remains that if you'd just give me these features and not mention it was a TES game, I'd surely be intrigued.

So, well... Color me intrigued for now. :)

 

  Kuinn

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 1848

6/11/12 3:57:39 PM#77
Originally posted by deathshroud

 Isnt the whole point of a TESO mmo to be like TES?

 

Like Skyrim you mean? World of Warcraft was supposed to be like Warcraft 3? That reminds me, I'd love to see TES RTS game.

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1354

6/11/12 4:11:05 PM#78
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Uhwop

Trion is learning, that's why they're doing the 3 faction pvp and housing slivers.

I keep bringing this up but without questing it specifically.

What I dont understand about a 2,3,4,5,6 faction system is this. Why not have clans declare war on clans. Simple, no factions but the effect is tons of factions.

Why would that be not as good as a 3 faction system or better?

 It's not really about "3 faction pvp" as much as it is with providing new content and something players have been asking for.

I'm actually more like you, except that I prefer both routes.  EVE offers both "guild" based pvp, ffa pvp, and faction based PvP. 

But then, I believe that if you're doing it in a themepark you should be able to do it in a sandbox.  EVE is testement to that.  I don't believe you ever have to do things "one way or the other", and that things are better when you allow players to choose how they want to do it. 

ESO could do guild based PvP, they could do servers with FFA pvp, and they could have both of these things with a faction based pvp backdrop. 

There's no impossible, only a lack of willingness to try.

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1354

6/11/12 4:12:51 PM#79
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by deathshroud

 Isnt the whole point of a TESO mmo to be like TES?

 

Like Skyrim you mean? World of Warcraft was supposed to be like Warcraft 3? That reminds me, I'd love to see TES RTS game.

I don't think that's right either, and probably why I keep seeing people make the "people expected skyrim online" comment being thrown around so often. 

The whole point of a ES mmo should have been to bring the ES gameplay to a persistant online world.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 3694

6/11/12 4:23:27 PM#80
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Uhwop

Trion is learning, that's why they're doing the 3 faction pvp and housing slivers.

I keep bringing this up but without questing it specifically.

What I dont understand about a 2,3,4,5,6 faction system is this. Why not have clans declare war on clans. Simple, no factions but the effect is tons of factions.

Why would that be not as good as a 3 faction system or better?

 It's not really about "3 faction pvp" as much as it is with providing new content and something players have been asking for.

I'm actually more like you, except that I prefer both routes.  EVE offers both "guild" based pvp, ffa pvp, and faction based PvP. 

But then, I believe that if you're doing it in a themepark you should be able to do it in a sandbox.  EVE is testement to that.  I don't believe you ever have to do things "one way or the other", and that things are better when you allow players to choose how they want to do it. 

ESO could do guild based PvP, they could do servers with FFA pvp, and they could have both of these things with a faction based pvp backdrop. 

There's no impossible, only a lack of willingness to try.

wait..how is it providing new content? doesnt it actually REDUCE the amount of content?

does your game have rainbow sprinkles and magic ponies!?

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