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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » Tides have turned: Consider me sold at this point

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123 posts found
  deathshroud

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1390

6/08/12 2:16:13 PM#41
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by deathshroud

 my post was for the guy who posted before you, but i thoguht that would of been obvious consdiering the context of what i posted. But regarding your new post. Im like WTF. sorry i dont understand how that relates to my post unless you are replying to a psot you already replied to earlier.

I was addressing this statement:

Just because it doesn't suit your tastes

I was pointing out that there is a difference between a TES fan saying 'hey this TES Online thing isnt at all like a TES game this blows' then someone going to any random game complaining about things that dont match their taste.

not sure if my comment has context to the whole conversation but that is the only point I was making.

 

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1484

6/08/12 2:19:35 PM#42

Whoever said "The whole point of  TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no.  Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there.  Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR,AA

  MMOarQQ

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 659

"Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain."

6/08/12 2:19:36 PM#43

Some have gone through the entire spectrum of emotions without seeing a single minute of in-game footage and combat.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5015

6/08/12 2:22:35 PM#44
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Whoever said "The whole point of  TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no.  Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there.  Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.

I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.

where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?

Correlation does not imply causation

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1118

6/08/12 2:26:04 PM#45
Originally posted by MMOarQQ

Some have gone through the entire spectrum of emotions without seeing a single minute of in-game footage and combat.

Well maybe if Zenimax would actually show some in-game footage and combat instead of a CGI trailer, an enviromental flythrough, the same 6 or so Screenshots and a bunch of DevSpeak

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  Remains

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/21/09
Posts: 371

6/08/12 3:07:38 PM#46
Originally posted by MMOarQQ

Some have gone through the entire spectrum of emotions without seeing a single minute of in-game footage and combat.

QFT

But then again, where would we be without the emotionally unstable flip-flopers on this site? This weird stuff is what makes mmorpg.com go round!

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1484

6/08/12 4:55:38 PM#47
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Whoever said "The whole point of  TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no.  Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there.  Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.

I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.

where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?

All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR,AA

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1484

6/08/12 4:57:19 PM#48
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by MMOarQQ

Some have gone through the entire spectrum of emotions without seeing a single minute of in-game footage and combat.

Well maybe if Zenimax would actually show some in-game footage and combat instead of a CGI trailer, an enviromental flythrough, the same 6 or so Screenshots and a bunch of DevSpeak

Not like this would change your views anyway since your dislike for this game comes from the fact that isn't the same traditional ES style. 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR,AA

  Sabic133

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/07
Posts: 46

6/08/12 5:38:34 PM#49

I belive much of what you have said OP was information released earlier than E3, in the leaked interview.  Maybe fleshed out a bit more at E3, but unless you see some gameplay videos I'd warn you have to take a lot of this in moderation.  They aren't fools, they realize the game has received possibly the worst negative hype of any game ever for just being announced that it was in production and basic details.  If you don't think they are spinning things as much as possible and doing damage control, then you are outright nieve.  

 

Not to be a tin foil hat person, but the lack of any gameplay videos and just a small video showing sunsets after so many years has really made me wonder if they haven't recently done an overhaul to the combat system of the game.  I could see them looking at the failure of SWTOR, which followed as closely as one can to traditional MMO mechanics and reworking their system to more closely replicate the GW2 design (as what they describe in the interviews).  

 

I would probably be lying if I said I didn't hope the game fails hard.  What makes the single player games so special is nothing in the market of RPG's comes close to them in openness or freedom of choice.  Nothing.  Regardless of how much they "mmoify" the gameplay mechanics, if that isn't at the heart of the game then I'm not interested.  It doesn't seem to be the way they are going.  

  deathshroud

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1390

6/09/12 1:17:18 AM#50

exactly poster above me, i think that TESO has recieved the worst reception to date of any AAA title mmorpg and the game is still in the anouncement phase. that is massive, pretty huge, damn i think the last game to recieve so much bad press on announcement was probably that XCOM fps that bethesda announced. Oh wait this is bethesda to and bethesda pretty much put that game on perma hold and put together a new XCOM to satisfy the fans. Now they are staring very hard at zenimax so no wonder that zenimax guy looked like he was going to burst into tears at practically any moment of that interview whilst he was trying to do some damage control.

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1118

6/09/12 1:54:56 AM#51
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by MMOarQQ

Some have gone through the entire spectrum of emotions without seeing a single minute of in-game footage and combat.

Well maybe if Zenimax would actually show some in-game footage and combat instead of a CGI trailer, an enviromental flythrough, the same 6 or so Screenshots and a bunch of DevSpeak

Not like this would change your views anyway since your dislike for this game comes from the fact that isn't the same traditional ES style. 

No, my dislike for this game comes from the fact that it is yet another Level Based, Class Based, TAB target, Forced Faction, Themepark style game. It makes my dislike greater that they are using another popular IP, whittled down and "MMOified" to sell it.

It being Elder Scrolls is actually a tertiary issue. I just feel that its sad that thats the IP chosen.

 

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  busdriver

Novice Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 923

6/09/12 4:17:37 AM#52

Oh hell yes, let's support this game by turning a blind eye to the long list of shit features it has and just praise the few minor things it does right.

By doing so, we will make sure the game sells well and we get yet another decade of spoonfed bullshit MMO's, whoopee!

Excellent fucking idea. Pat yourself on the back.

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/09/12 2:23:01 PM#53
Originally posted by deathshroud
Originally posted by Trol1
Originally posted by deathshroud

i would say that next gen mmo combat is twitch based aim based, this is not next gen its tried and tested with a few minor alterations and that pretty much sums up this mmo, tried and tested. In reality we have already tried and tested this mmo our selves with the countless mmos we have already played. Isnt the whole point of a TESO mmo to be like TES? if it misses that vital part of the puzzle then wtf are we waiting for here?

 

i have no real dobut that TESO will appeal greatly to those who love WOW like mmorpgs and who know or care very little for TES. but for anyone with any love for MMORPGS, thier future and the TES world created by Todd Howard and his team then i urge you to boycott this abomination. If we dont make a stand against this insantiy of SWTOR TOS RIFT etc then how do you ever epxect to see a change in the genre???

 

next we will all be seeing a TES fighting game like street fighter, Or a TES racing game and you will all eat that shit up like good little drones.

This just shows how close-minded some people are, and, to be honest, how little one should show them respect...

but hey. one's never too old to fight the good fight and bash some enlightenment into somebody's skull so here goes:

Have you played Fallout New Vegas? Have you also played Fallout 1 or 2? What about Fallout Tactics?

3 (well, actually four but I'm taking F1 and F2 together) different games with quite different playstyles... and yet, they are all set in the same Fallout universe!

Of course, some fans may like some game better than the other (me, I favor Fallout Tactics), some fans may not even have played or heard of some of the games...

And yet, what all fans will say is that in each game there is a groovy, fun universe...

Now, I mean I do understand (and sort of respect) your concern for MMOs made out of IPs that should better stay singleplayer games, or maybe co-op, but definitely not MMOs - if somebody were to tell me today that they are doing another Evil Dead game, and this one would be a MMO, I would probably throw a toddler's tantrum like you crying "no you can't you can't you cunt!" because the Evil Dead universe is really just Bruce vs Deadites! - but at the same time look  at LOTRO:  yes, it may now only be a huge F2P game, not a subscription superstar, but when i first heard about it I was very much like "so you are going to do make an MMO out of what essentially is just the trip of two Hobbits to a vulcano (with some limited support staff)? You know that everybody will be playing Frodo or Gandalf?" And yet - not having played it myself - there is apparently quite a number of gamers playing and enjoying the LOTRO world...

So, frankly I'll call your "TES must stay singleplayer" attitude a huge pile of BS and would ask you to go the next loo as soon as possible to get rid of it! At this point you (like everybody else in the public) knows very little about how much of the TES universe, the TES setting will actually be in TESO. And yet, here is your big call to boycott the game...

You know, you remind me rather much of all those SWTOR haters who say SWTOR wasn't enough SW while at the same time they loved KOTOR 1 & 2...

Anyhow, just one more thing before you should rush to the toilet: your "it's all been done before, boycott this game if you  care about the future of MMOs" cry...

man, grow up!

Yes, you may say that the late 90s and the first 2 or 3 years of 2000 saw a good chunk of innovation for MMORPGs (going from MUD to 2D to 3D, PvE to PvP to RvR, etc) but  in the last 8 years or so there has really been only one major innovation and that was sadly WoW talking MMORPGs to the casual gamers. Everything else we have seen is either so extreme niche that it only appeals to a very small section of the market or it is really - in the end - rather gimmicky...

So, frankly, if you want to see change, fire up your notepad, start brainstorming ideas and once you have a working model, head over to Kickstarter to get some money! Because otherwise what you'll see is just as with the invention of the wheel: it'll get refined, improved, adjusted but it won't take that leap to become anti-grav pads. Which quite frankly, I'm rather glad of because seeing drivers every day, I'm happy to see them bump into each other and leave some junk on the street rather than those same drivers in their flying cars causing daily meteorid showers to fall on everybody on the ground. ;-)

So, now off to the loo, if you could, please? Thank you.

 i have palyed all the fallout games and your missing the point, fallout3 changed the combat system and perspective granted. But think to yourself now. Was the perspective and or combat system crucial to the gameplay of the original fallout? no it wasnt, fallout was first and foremost an rpg with some very basic multple choice options and great player customisation and all the important stuff translated to fallout3 perfectly fine. The game still contained the crucial gameplay aspects of the fallout series whilst improving on many of its then dated aspects.

TESO is nothing like the original tes games it throws out all the features that made the TES games great and intstead keeps all the non essential aspects of the game. For that it is nothing like comparing the change in the fallout series to the change from TES to TESO so please think about what you are typing.

 

I played quite a few sw games but i disliked kotor and kotor2 im not a huge fan of bioware i thought dragonage sucked and i only played ME1. I played SWG for 2 mnoths at release and quit because it felt like an mmo with a sw skin it lacked that SW feel and excitement i felt like the combat system was better befitting to a star trek theme of think first than a fantasy action based series, were was the twitch based combat. I quit SWG bfore the NGE expansion or whatever and looking back now i think SWG was actually one of the better MMOs i played but because i came straight from UO it felt lacking.

So with all that you have a very incorrect percpetion of me. No i do not think kotor is anything like sw and no i did not play swtor since i was smart enough to avoid it considering the disapointment that was swg and no comparing fallout to fallout3 is nothing like comparing TES to TESO. its more like comparing Syndicate to the new Syndicate game that was released Or comparing XCOM enemy unknown to that announced XCOM shooter. They compeltey switched the genre of the game and left everything that made the original good behind just like zenimax.

 

Zenimax missed the point entirely. Now if their next game was a shooter based on TES or a fighting game it would be exactly the same just more obvious of a cash in. There are plenty of WOW esque mmorpgs out there do we really need another one? Zenimax most liekly dont care if we need another one so long as they make a profit why would they.

Without the money, what is the point?

 

What do you think they should of made? Perhaps an Owen centric game, where crafters distribute the loot?

 

The majority of MMO gamers play PVE, so it makes no sense to shoe horn their rewards thru the least played game mechanic. You say it makes it like everything else, and I say it is a smart game design.

 

Zenimax has tried to hook the PVP folks up with 3 faction combat. They have brought back open world dungeons. The barking about "same ole same ole" just isnt applicable in my mind.

 

If you are expecting wholesale change, then look to some indy dev. No investor, in their right mind, is going to let their money pay for a game full of concept ideas. There is going to be repitition of working mechanics, but at least ESO looks to be doing stuff different from the norm since WOW launched.

 

In my mind, I would like to see a game somewhere on the scale between EQ and WOW. That would give a game some depth, yet not bore folks to sleep. The total world simulation type games belong with indy companies. They have yet to be proven popular, and until they do, they deserve minimal backing.

 

Perhaps I misunderstood your post, so please correct me if I ASSumed wrong.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  User Deleted
6/09/12 2:56:03 PM#54
Originally posted by Moaky07
 
Originally posted by deathshroud
Originally posted by Trol1
Originally posted by deathshroud

i would say that next gen mmo combat is twitch based aim based, this is not next gen its tried and tested with a few minor alterations and that pretty much sums up this mmo, tried and tested. In reality we have already tried and tested this mmo our selves with the countless mmos we have already played. Isnt the whole point of a TESO mmo to be like TES? if it misses that vital part of the puzzle then wtf are we waiting for here?

 

i have no real dobut that TESO will appeal greatly to those who love WOW like mmorpgs and who know or care very little for TES. but for anyone with any love for MMORPGS, thier future and the TES world created by Todd Howard and his team then i urge you to boycott this abomination. If we dont make a stand against this insantiy of SWTOR TOS RIFT etc then how do you ever epxect to see a change in the genre???

 

next we will all be seeing a TES fighting game like street fighter, Or a TES racing game and you will all eat that shit up like good little drones.

This just shows how close-minded some people are, and, to be honest, how little one should show them respect...

but hey. one's never too old to fight the good fight and bash some enlightenment into somebody's skull so here goes:

Have you played Fallout New Vegas? Have you also played Fallout 1 or 2? What about Fallout Tactics?

3 (well, actually four but I'm taking F1 and F2 together) different games with quite different playstyles... and yet, they are all set in the same Fallout universe!

Of course, some fans may like some game better than the other (me, I favor Fallout Tactics), some fans may not even have played or heard of some of the games...

And yet, what all fans will say is that in each game there is a groovy, fun universe...

Now, I mean I do understand (and sort of respect) your concern for MMOs made out of IPs that should better stay singleplayer games, or maybe co-op, but definitely not MMOs - if somebody were to tell me today that they are doing another Evil Dead game, and this one would be a MMO, I would probably throw a toddler's tantrum like you crying "no you can't you can't you cunt!" because the Evil Dead universe is really just Bruce vs Deadites! - but at the same time look  at LOTRO:  yes, it may now only be a huge F2P game, not a subscription superstar, but when i first heard about it I was very much like "so you are going to do make an MMO out of what essentially is just the trip of two Hobbits to a vulcano (with some limited support staff)? You know that everybody will be playing Frodo or Gandalf?" And yet - not having played it myself - there is apparently quite a number of gamers playing and enjoying the LOTRO world...

So, frankly I'll call your "TES must stay singleplayer" attitude a huge pile of BS and would ask you to go the next loo as soon as possible to get rid of it! At this point you (like everybody else in the public) knows very little about how much of the TES universe, the TES setting will actually be in TESO. And yet, here is your big call to boycott the game...

You know, you remind me rather much of all those SWTOR haters who say SWTOR wasn't enough SW while at the same time they loved KOTOR 1 & 2...

Anyhow, just one more thing before you should rush to the toilet: your "it's all been done before, boycott this game if you  care about the future of MMOs" cry...

man, grow up!

Yes, you may say that the late 90s and the first 2 or 3 years of 2000 saw a good chunk of innovation for MMORPGs (going from MUD to 2D to 3D, PvE to PvP to RvR, etc) but  in the last 8 years or so there has really been only one major innovation and that was sadly WoW talking MMORPGs to the casual gamers. Everything else we have seen is either so extreme niche that it only appeals to a very small section of the market or it is really - in the end - rather gimmicky...

So, frankly, if you want to see change, fire up your notepad, start brainstorming ideas and once you have a working model, head over to Kickstarter to get some money! Because otherwise what you'll see is just as with the invention of the wheel: it'll get refined, improved, adjusted but it won't take that leap to become anti-grav pads. Which quite frankly, I'm rather glad of because seeing drivers every day, I'm happy to see them bump into each other and leave some junk on the street rather than those same drivers in their flying cars causing daily meteorid showers to fall on everybody on the ground. ;-)

So, now off to the loo, if you could, please? Thank you.

 i have palyed all the fallout games and your missing the point, fallout3 changed the combat system and perspective granted. But think to yourself now. Was the perspective and or combat system crucial to the gameplay of the original fallout? no it wasnt, fallout was first and foremost an rpg with some very basic multple choice options and great player customisation and all the important stuff translated to fallout3 perfectly fine. The game still contained the crucial gameplay aspects of the fallout series whilst improving on many of its then dated aspects.

TESO is nothing like the original tes games it throws out all the features that made the TES games great and intstead keeps all the non essential aspects of the game. For that it is nothing like comparing the change in the fallout series to the change from TES to TESO so please think about what you are typing.

 

I played quite a few sw games but i disliked kotor and kotor2 im not a huge fan of bioware i thought dragonage sucked and i only played ME1. I played SWG for 2 mnoths at release and quit because it felt like an mmo with a sw skin it lacked that SW feel and excitement i felt like the combat system was better befitting to a star trek theme of think first than a fantasy action based series, were was the twitch based combat. I quit SWG bfore the NGE expansion or whatever and looking back now i think SWG was actually one of the better MMOs i played but because i came straight from UO it felt lacking.

So with all that you have a very incorrect percpetion of me. No i do not think kotor is anything like sw and no i did not play swtor since i was smart enough to avoid it considering the disapointment that was swg and no comparing fallout to fallout3 is nothing like comparing TES to TESO. its more like comparing Syndicate to the new Syndicate game that was released Or comparing XCOM enemy unknown to that announced XCOM shooter. They compeltey switched the genre of the game and left everything that made the original good behind just like zenimax.

 

Zenimax missed the point entirely. Now if their next game was a shooter based on TES or a fighting game it would be exactly the same just more obvious of a cash in. There are plenty of WOW esque mmorpgs out there do we really need another one? Zenimax most liekly dont care if we need another one so long as they make a profit why would they.

Without the money, what is the point?

 

What do you think they should of made? Perhaps an Owen centric game, where crafters distribute the loot?

 

The majority of MMO gamers play PVE, so it makes no sense to shoe horn their rewards thru the least played game mechanic. You say it makes it like everything else, and I say it is a smart game design.

 

Zenimax has tried to hook the PVP folks up with 3 faction combat. They have brought back open world dungeons. The barking about "same ole same ole" just isnt applicable in my mind.

 

If you are expecting wholesale change, then look to some indy dev. No investor, in their right mind, is going to let their money pay for a game full of concept ideas. There is going to be repitition of working mechanics, but at least ESO looks to be doing stuff different from the norm since WOW launched.

 

In my mind, I would like to see a game somewhere on the scale between EQ and WOW. That would give a game some depth, yet not bore folks to sleep. The total world simulation type games belong with indy companies. They have yet to be proven popular, and until they do, they deserve minimal backing.

 

Perhaps I misunderstood your post, so please correct me if I ASSumed wrong.

I don't understand why every individual sets their mind an MMO's specific features and paints them as terrible and bad as if everyone else just automatically agrees with them.

I quoted this because I agree with the point of view here. The industry is not going to have every game emerge after a lengthy development period with every new concept. Game mechanics that are available today and found to be successful are not going to be in a game release tommorow. Some things just can't be added on a whim, it takes time and in many cases certain features need to be implimented from the foundation up. TESO is close to the end of development. They have already made the choices, they made them four or five years ago...back before SWTOR was released or whatever other recent game people are loving and hating was released.

The ship has sailed. Some things can be adjusted and or tweaked, but if people think that Zenimax is going to scrap the whole project and redo it with all new concepts you are going to be permanently disappointed. They took the concepts and the ideas that were huge at the time, they were successful.

As I have said before, four or five years ago most people said "do what Blizzard has done, they are the best,' now they all complain of boredom. We might not see much innovation for a few years yet. It will take time to get new games out that copy Tera, GW2 (not even released yet), TSW (not yet released), Rift, etc. Earth shattering MMO innovation is not going to happen anytime soon unless a dark horse independant developer happens to knock one out of the park.

DayZ is looking good, but it is certainly not all new.

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1640

6/10/12 2:01:01 PM#55
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by simplyawful

Spin it all you'd like, but when you make a TES game and remove the core elements to "MMORPIZGS" it, it's off the radar.

They might as well call it something entirely different, because it offers nothing for a TES game fan as those games were famous for their gameplay and not their story.

Disregard the notion of it being TES.  Base your judgement purely on the MMO and not the title.  Still though there is a little bit of TES hidden within just about every development system inside the game, from the weapon system to the block/stealth use.  Its hidden but suspend belief a bit like I have and judge the game on its merits and not on "this sint a TES clone".  Now if you dont like most of the elements of the game then sure be vocal.

The title looks exactly like almost every other game out there. The block/stealth use, non-public dungeons, no quest hubs, are just minor elements to an MMO, this is exactly like the overuse of voice acting in SWTOR -- a minor feature in an mmo. The main system in TESO remains the same, and that's what makes 75% of people leave within the first three months. You, in your OP, are just falling to the hype once again by putting too much attention to the minor elements, which won't matter in the long-run.

What do you consider the main features in an MMO?

 

I mean if active Combat

Target lock your enemy, move into range, activate skill to initiate an attact.  Instead of "agro" you'll block mobs to prevent them from attacking other party members.  You'll have synergized abilities kind of like EQ2 has.   The combat they're talking about is no more "active" then most every other MMO. 

non-linear Questing

Instead of having quest givers in a town, they moved the quest gives to the actual POI's that the town quest givers would direct you to anyways.  They'll have zones, and each zone will be be divided up into areas of level appropriate mobs and related quests.  You'll be able to do quests in each area in a non linear fasion in the same way that WoW would have you be able to go to your choice of hub and start questing.  EQ2 has quests all over the area, a lot of which don't require have followed any kind oa partern to get there. 

There's nothing new about the questing they're talking about in ESO, only the way they're talking about it.  The way they're talking about ESO questing is the exact same way you could talk about questing in EQ2. 

open-ended Exploration

There is no such thing as "open-ended exploration" in any MMO.  I don't know were you're getting this from to apply it to ESO.  When did they call exploration open-ended, and how do you make something that can end, open-ended?   Did they announce dynamically generated dungeons, or landmass that will provide unlimitted amounts of space to explore?  If they didn't then exploration in ESO can't be "open-ended".  Open-ended means that something has no end, and exploration in every MMO most deffinetly has an end to it; ESO will be no different.

skill based character skill systems.

You mean a level based class system, with skill levels?   They've already said that there are class levels.  Combine class levels with skill levels and what you get is skills that will have a level range based on the level of your class, and also dictate what skills become available to you.  Otherwise there wouldn't be any point in having class levels.  Of course I'm speculating.  However, they didn't say it was a "skill based character skill system", only that you'll get better with a skill or weapon the more you use it and that that will allow you to unlock new skills.  Sounds an awful lot like vanilla WoW to me.  I could use a multitude of weapons as a mage, and I even had a skill level for that weapon that required me to level the skill by using the weapon to become more effective with it. 

3 faction siege warfare and elements like dodging and stealth for all classes are not considered major functions of an MMO then I think you've set the bar a "wee" bit to high dont you think?

You mean 3 faction pvp that is confined to a single zone?  Or are we talking about the instanced battlegrounds that they said will be in the game?  Doesn't WoW also have a single zone dedicated to seige warfare, with resource control and capture points?  Isn't the only diference between these two systems that one is a persistant zone within the world, an the other one uses an instance?  In the end, it still comes down to a single area to fight in.

And then we've got the one guy that gets crowned emperor based on that person having contributed more then everyone else, and not because players actually chose him to be emperor.  Or the part were they said that being emperor actually doesn't mean anything, doesn't give that player any form of control, and is only for bragging rights.  Doesn't sound so "major" to me.

 

Fact is all the features that TESO are promoting have rarely been done and none all at once (cept minus GW2 but we all know its the savior of the genre so we will exclude it for the time being).

The fact is the features that ESO is promoting, along with all the core gameplay, is found in just about every major themepark release in the last 7 years. 

Do you think Rift is drastically different from WoW because they took a different approach to class building?  Do you think that AoC is drastically different from WoW because they took a different approach to hotbar combat?  Do you think that GW2 is going to be drastically different from WoW because they use events to give out quests?  Do you think ToR was drastically different from WoW because it utilized dialog choice during cutscens, I almost said cutscenes and then I remembered that WoW uses them.  Do you think that TERA is different from WoW because they chose aim based combat instead of tab targetting? 

 ESO is still built around quest grinding, they've been talking about it for the last couple of weeks now.  They haven't been talking about all the divergent gameplay that everyone loved about the ES series, they've been talking about questing.

They've talked about solo personal stories that you do alone.

They've talked about the use of phasing to tell stories and alter the world based on what quest you've done.

They've talked about trinity combat mechanics.

They've talked about classes.

They've talked about single zone faction pvp and instanced battlegrounds.

 

Some of you people get so wrapped up in the WAY they talk about features that you don't even notice what it is they're actually saying.  They have not described anything that resembles an ES game, they just keep saying that they threw in this little alteration to a basic themepark mechanic so that it'll look like something that resembles an ES feature, and you guys latch on to it. 

Just because they focus on talking about sprinting and blocking doesn't mean that it's not tab targetting/ hotbar combat.  Just because they focus on "no quest hubs" doesn't mean that there aren't quest hubs because they mince words to gloss over saying that they moved the quest hubs (which one of the developers literally said in one of the video interviews "we moved the quest hubs"), nor does it mean that ESO won't be all about "doing quests" to level, like every other themepark.

Just because they very breifly mention that there will be raids, instanced dugneons with standard difficulty or heroic, instanced battlegrounds, or tank/ healer/ dps group composition, doesn't mean they aren't core features of the game.  It just means they're intentionally avoiding talking about these things so that the game sounds more like something it isn't.

ESO is going to be a standard themepark MMO, no different from Rift, EQ2, GW2, or WoW.  It's being built on the same core features and mechanics as every other themepark MMO, but they're using wording and phrases, just like every other studio does, to make it sound like they're not doing that.

 

Edit: TL;DR,  A themepark MMO that "does it slightly different" is still just a themepark MMO.  ESO will end up with the same complaints that every other one gets.  It's just more of the same old same old. 

  User Deleted
6/10/12 2:17:00 PM#56
Originally posted by busdriver

Oh hell yes, let's support this game by turning a blind eye to the long list of shit features it has and just praise the few minor things it does right.

By doing so, we will make sure the game sells well and we get yet another decade of spoonfed bullshit MMO's, whoopee!

Excellent fucking idea. Pat yourself on the back.

This.  So big deal if they do 1 or 2 things good but 1 or 2 things is not the entire package. It is still not a true Elder Scrolls game and it doesn't have all the goodness of the single player games. 

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2745

6/10/12 5:35:44 PM#57
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Whoever said "The whole point of  TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no.  Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there.  Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.

I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.

where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?

All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.

Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...

But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of  the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.

So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?

Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".

In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...

 

Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...

 

 

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/10/12 7:15:40 PM#58
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Whoever said "The whole point of  TES mmo is to have all the TES elements in it", no.  Its an MMO, if you want the core elements that have been changed in the MMO, then play the single player TES games which are debatably the best solo RPG's out there.  Could they have replicated those functions in an MMO? Yes, but thats not the route there going, therefore you cannot criticize this game from that perspective as most of the statements being thrown at this game are from a solo RPG perspective, two different worlds.

I havent yet read a single TES fan who has suggested that ALL the TES elements need to be in it.

where are you getting the idea that people are saying this?

All was exaggeration, but the point was rather clear.

Well, if the makers care to take TES off the box, they could make whatever game they want, and no one would care...

But, they are using the TES IP in an attempt to tap the TES fanbase by calling it an "elder scrolls" game, and yet, they are taking out most of  the game mechanics that made TES SPGs good.

So, how should those very same TES fans feel about that?

Zenimax can't have it both ways: They can't say "This is an elder scrolls game and if you were a fan of TES titles, you should like this game" and at the same time say "This is an MMO and not really anything like a TES game, so many/most of the mechanics you liked in the SPG games are not going in there (especially when other MMOs HAVE had some of those elements in there)".

In the end, it looks like an attempt to get TES fans to buy a game, simply because it has TES on the box, and nothing about the IP in the box...

 

Consider me not sold, and not buying the hype...

 

 

They didnt do that with SWG? Didnt they give us Uncle Owens trading corner, rather than a fleshed out PVE experience? It had jack to do with the theme of the  IP. The only thing I remember in the OT even somewhat related was in ESB, when they were placing sensors on Hoth. Sure dont remember harvestors.

It really is a non issue, but dont call out a game, when another was doing it as well.

Quite frankly, I see nothing out of the ordinary in ESO that I wouldnt normally see in a SP version,  except for the tab/target, and I have no issue with it. It sounds like the game will have a personal story line, and also plenty of PVE content. Which is precisely what I get from playing the SP versions.

 

The fact they are giving PVP folks 3 faction is just a bonus.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1132

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

6/10/12 7:23:57 PM#59
Originally posted by Belegmor
While i have never played any of the predessor games, I am very excited about this game...if it lives up to it's potential, which many other recent releases have not. I first "cut my teeth" back in DAOC, well before the TOA release. I loved the "Realm wars" and the pride one took in victory; I myself was a Hib. Hopefully, using the DAOC experience, they can expand upon the 3-faction concept and create a great "end game" experience. Imho, after all the questing and dungeons, the PvP in DOAC was better than ANY other game and kept me interested long after the game itself declined. Here's to hope...

I agree, especially coming from 10 years of DAoC.  However, most folks won't understand what open dungeons and 3 realms are all about, especially when they see the classes and races for each faction are (drum roll)...different.  That alone will confuse them.

 

Players will log in eventually just to ask which race and class "pwns."  Then they will try to figure which combo of abilities "pwns."  Then they will have to do that for the other 2 factions.  Eventually they will get "pwned" in pvp by a particular class.  After they come here to call nerf or what have you, they will make the class and play it until they get "pwned."

 

Let's hope those people leave so we can have a great community :)

  Isane

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/06
Posts: 2696

"Some do , Some don''t , Others just cry"

Jean Sali

6/10/12 7:24:09 PM#60
Originally posted by Zylaxx

First before you flame me, look into my post history.  Check my Twitter feed (same name). Check the GameInformer articles and Massively.com articles for my responses in the comment sections.  Since the first week of May when information started coming out about TESO I have been the most ardent and vocal "hater" of this game. 

That was then, now after 3 days of E3 and countless articles, and forums readings I have had a change of heart.  Before I begin I will say that I agree with everyone who says TESO only shares the name with the single player RPG's.  Thats not to say Zenimax has not tried to work some TES ideas into the MMO version, because they have, although like most I believe they could of done a much better MMO successor to the series.

 

Ok so why have I changed my mind about TESO you may ask?  Well let me list them but first I do realize theres not been one iota of ingame combat footage shown so it could still be relatively clunky or uninspiring.  Knowing what I know no about the game I have became very excited and as long as the game is polished and has great production quality akin to WoW or GW2 then I will be thrilled.  The only thing to make me even more happier about the game would be if they were to add player housing.  Its the one core concept that is missing and I will continue to vocalize my displeasure of housing not being included.

 

TESO's combat design is next gen.  Even though there are classes (which isnt a staple of Skyrim and Oblivion) it does allow any class to use any weapon.  With the action bar (hotbar) only devoted to 3 of the 6 hotbar slots then there should be an illusion to hide some of the class based system.  I agree with the E3 article that said this system will give freedom of choice to TES veterns while still being comfortable for MMO players who have never played a TES game.

 

The ability to have active dodging, sprint, and Stealth for all classes also plays into freedom of choice in a class based character system while still staying true to TES games.  Plus There’s an incentive to fight intelligently too, as skilled play rewards you with extra treasure following a fight.

 

Public Dungeons will harken back to the old days of MMO's which is also a plus.  I absolutely love open worlds/dungeons and even though it will still have instances (which I hate with a passion) theres still plenty of the open-ended gameplay that is reminescent of TES games.

 

Removal of the quest hub is probably my greatest reason why I am excited for TESO.  I loathe "bread-crumbing" or linear paths from character creation to level cap.  Nothing is as detrimental to my immersion as being told "what to do" and "how to do it".  Open ended gameplay with open worlds to explore and the re-addition of the TES style compass to show you where P.O.I.'s are at is yet another feature that I love in TES games.  Glad that more MMO's are doing away with the traditional quest hub system.

 

 

All in all I have grown quite excited about the possibilities and I will await any further speculation or hype untill actual game footage with working systems are in place.  Even though I still consider them using the IP as a cash grab I dont mind because at least they are innovating on features that have grown stale ever since the behemoth that is WoW entered the MMO-verse. 

 

You hate Quest HUBs but love the POI , now if you had said I hate Quest HUBs and want to explore fine but otherwise they ammount to the same thing.

Sadly if all this game contains is 3 months to max level and combat then it falls into the same category as all but two or 3 MMOs released in the last 5 years, i.e. not fit for purpose.

Love the Elder Scrolls series very well done.

 

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SWTOR and COS games that could deliver !!

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