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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Probably the Best Description of TES Online I've heard

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50 posts found
  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

6/11/12 2:20:59 PM#41
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by AlBQuirky  

Originally posted by seniorfrito

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by iceman00 Came from a commenter at, of all places, IGN:   " Whenever I play skyrim, I think 'this game is good, but I wish it didn't have all these intricate visual details, and I wish the combat hewed closer to the well worn tropes of the MMO circa 2004'. Finally someone with the vision to implement cartoony graphics and take out the stressful player-driven content to replace it with auto attacks and autotargetting so I can leave the room during fights."
But thats what the MMO majority want and the way MMOs are supposed to be.
Since when are MMOs "supposed" to be auto target and auto attack?  This is a major misconception that has been destroying the MMO industry for years.  You start seeing these more innovative games with non-traditional combat style and what happens?  People start hyping it like crazy.  What happens when everyone sees a new game with the traditional MMO combat style?  They all cry WoW Clone.  Here's two examples of recent games that went the tradtional route.  Rift and SWTOR.  Both are failing.  PyrateLV, your entire comment is completely false.
Auto targeting is part the RPG part of MMORPG. Your character is the one doing the fighting, not the player. MMOFPS (and MMOAAG (Action Adventure Games)) is where the player is doing the fighting.   I SUCK at mouse targeting. Half the time I am staring at the ground, not the enemy. When I play MMORPGs, I want my character to do the fighting. I am sorry you don't understand this.
Wrong.

 

there are RPG MMOs out there that are not tab targeted.

I have no issue in people not taking targeted based systems. that is fine, but dont suggest its a genre requirements that is silly talk



Role Play. Playing the role of another character. In my pen and paper days, I NEVER swung a sword at an orc. I NEVER dodged an incoming blow. MMORPG is taking the role of a character. Always has been, always will be, no matter what twitch gamers want it to mean.

 

Twitch combat, where YOU aim, YOU swing the sword, YOU block the incoming blow is from FPS based games. From console players. Well... maybe some LARPA players, too...

MMOFPS
(can't think of any examples...)

MMOAAG (action adventure)
Dragon's Nest, Vindictus, etc

There are a couple of industry genres already available for your kind of combat. MMORPG is NOT one them.

Why does this from of gameplay ONLY involve combat? Why does a player's faith not affect their divine abilities? Why does a player's IQ not affect their magical aptitude? No... only their manual dexterity counts.

I totally get what you are saying and I used that logic on others when they say that an RPG 'must' contain skill but the truth is its doesnt HAVE to be either way.

nobody out there other than some random players like yourself as saying that is a requirement for a MMORPG not have twitch skills that is silly. You might not like it and that is fine but they DO exist in MMORPG no matter how hard you try to say that they are not.

And RV is a camper...give it up, dont be that guy

ADDED: using your logic you would have to inject some new logic as to why this is true for an MMO but not true for a single player game. without doing so you would be saying that TES is not an RPG.....kinda hard to resolve.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

6/11/12 2:47:46 PM#42
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

 

Role Play. Playing the role of another character. In my pen and paper days, I NEVER swung a sword at an orc. I NEVER dodged an incoming blow. MMORPG is taking the role of a character. Always has been, always will be, no matter what twitch gamers want it to mean.

 

Twitch combat, where YOU aim, YOU swing the sword, YOU block the incoming blow is from FPS based games. From console players. Well... maybe some LARPA players, too...

MMOFPS
(can't think of any examples...)

MMOAAG (action adventure)
Dragon's Nest, Vindictus, etc

There are a couple of industry genres already available for your kind of combat. MMORPG is NOT one them.

Why does this from of gameplay ONLY involve combat? Why does a player's faith not affect their divine abilities? Why does a player's IQ not affect their magical aptitude? No... only their manual dexterity counts.

 I'm sorry, but you're old enough to know better, and to know that FPS gameplay was a part of oldschool RPG's.  In fact the very first MMO ever made, Meridian 59 was not played in 3rd person perspective, and I'm pretty sure it used skill based combat.

A lot of oldschool D&D games were played from first person perspective.  FPS does not mean there NO dice rolls, and that is only part of the "RPG" arguement you got going for you.  Many people that played in my P&P gaming session would indeed play from the "perspective" of their character. 

Or have you never heard of a LARP?  They're as much an RPG as any P&P one and you certianly aren't playing from an outside perspective, and many of them do not use any dice rolls to determine who wins in combat.

Stop making up excuses and just get to the point of it.

YOU don't like skill based combat.  That's fine, nothing wrong with that.  What is wrong is the need to justify what you like or dislike by making false claims about what an RPG is.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

6/11/12 2:54:57 PM#43
edit

Correlation does not imply causation

  Zeroxin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2518

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

6/11/12 3:15:01 PM#44
Originally posted by iceman00

Came from a commenter at, of all places, IGN:

 

"

Whenever I play skyrim, I think 'this game is good, but I wish it didn't have all these intricate visual details, and I wish the combat hewed closer to the well worn tropes of the MMO circa 2004'. Finally someone with the vision to implement cartoony graphics and take out the stressful player-driven content to replace it with auto attacks and autotargetting so I can leave the room during fights."

I don't think people understand that the combat is more active than the usual MMO. Yes, we've only heard them SAY this but, let's give them the benefit of the doubt until we SEE and PLAY the combat.

This is not a game.

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

6/11/12 3:41:10 PM#45
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by iceman00

Came from a commenter at, of all places, IGN:

 

"

Whenever I play skyrim, I think 'this game is good, but I wish it didn't have all these intricate visual details, and I wish the combat hewed closer to the well worn tropes of the MMO circa 2004'. Finally someone with the vision to implement cartoony graphics and take out the stressful player-driven content to replace it with auto attacks and autotargetting so I can leave the room during fights."

I don't think people understand that the combat is more active than the usual MMO. Yes, we've only heard them SAY this but, let's give them the benefit of the doubt until we SEE and PLAY the combat.

 I think it's more like, they want people to get the impression that it's more active then the usual MMO. 

Activating skills is no more active then any other game.  Believe it or not, GW2 combat is no more active then WoW.

The GI article compared it to WoW in it's feel and movement.  They're just trying to quell some of the negativety that arose from people reading that and going WTF, that's not how ES combat worked.  So they've changed wording and are now calling it "active" or "action" combat.

WoW is also active and action combat because you're constantly running around kitting, closing gaps, or trying to get behind your target. 

There's nothing wrong with WoW style combat, it's one of the things that made WoW a good game.  There is something wrong with trying to wordsmith things to give an impression that something is more then it is, and that's what they're doing now. 

And no, I do not need to play it or see gameplay to understand what they're describing. 

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

6/11/12 3:52:28 PM#46
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by iceman00

Came from a commenter at, of all places, IGN:

 

"

Whenever I play skyrim, I think 'this game is good, but I wish it didn't have all these intricate visual details, and I wish the combat hewed closer to the well worn tropes of the MMO circa 2004'. Finally someone with the vision to implement cartoony graphics and take out the stressful player-driven content to replace it with auto attacks and autotargetting so I can leave the room during fights."

I don't think people understand that the combat is more active than the usual MMO. Yes, we've only heard them SAY this but, let's give them the benefit of the doubt until we SEE and PLAY the combat.

1. No, they are running on a deficit of integrity at the moment. they will have to pull themselves out of so any statement now starts at a deficit instead of gifting surplus like you are suggesting we do.
 
2. People really dont play TES for the combat in the first place I dont follow why they are trying to make that the focus. I am not saying combat should be good, I am saying its not a key focused feature.
 
3. They will have a really hard time beating Darkfall on the combat front.

Correlation does not imply causation

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

 
OP  6/12/12 10:20:01 PM#47
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by iceman00
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by iceman00

Came from a commenter at, of all places, IGN:

 

"

Whenever I play skyrim, I think 'this game is good, but I wish it didn't have all these intricate visual details, and I wish the combat hewed closer to the well worn tropes of the MMO circa 2004'. Finally someone with the vision to implement cartoony graphics and take out the stressful player-driven content to replace it with auto attacks and autotargetting so I can leave the room during fights."

Yet that same person would bitch about the lag in a skyrim mmorpg.  A bitch will always bitch.

Pot, meet kettle.

Fail troll is fail

Poeple who are inclined to complain about every little this and that won't be happy.

Gotta agree with ya.

 

This site is always about the glass being half empty. There is always room for constructive criticism. I wouldnt call what happens around these parts as such.

 

As far a GFX....not everyone can own a 2k plus PC. I think the GFX allows it to run on less beefier machines. I would imagine a bunch of players in the same area, with the amount of detail in the SP version, could probably cripple even the best rigs.

Funny.... my PC cost 850 three years ago and it STILL runs everything on max detail.  Why?  Because your games are running off of tech that is pretty much 8 years old.  Most of your bid budget games aren't even doing DX10, to say nothing of DX11.  and no, "high res texture packs" are not taking advantage of the latest tech.

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 749

6/13/12 1:43:26 AM#48
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by iceman00

Came from a commenter at, of all places, IGN:

 

"

Whenever I play skyrim, I think 'this game is good, but I wish it didn't have all these intricate visual details, and I wish the combat hewed closer to the well worn tropes of the MMO circa 2004'. Finally someone with the vision to implement cartoony graphics and take out the stressful player-driven content to replace it with auto attacks and autotargetting so I can leave the room during fights."

I don't think people understand that the combat is more active than the usual MMO. Yes, we've only heard them SAY this but, let's give them the benefit of the doubt until we SEE and PLAY the combat.

1. No, they are running on a deficit of integrity at the moment. they will have to pull themselves out of so any statement now starts at a deficit instead of gifting surplus like you are suggesting we do.
 
2. People really dont play TES for the combat in the first place I dont follow why they are trying to make that the focus. I am not saying combat should be good, I am saying its not a key focused feature.
 
3. They will have a really hard time beating Darkfall on the combat front.

I've seen the combat, it's like a floaty version of GW2 mixed with Neverwinter.  It is not Elder Scrolls by any stretch of the imagination, not even 3rd person Elder Scrolls.

For me, it isn't just the combat that bothers me, but that is a big part of it.  If they gave use Skyrim combat with a couple of improvements (hotbar is totally fine for ancillary abilities like potions and switching weapons/spells as opposed to having to pause during a fight) I could overlook the game's other shortcomings.

As for Darkfall, I disagree, I think they could take combat similar to that and refine the hell out of it.  Darkfall has a major flaw in its combat system and that is the 40%+ damage to the back mechanic.  It turns every melee fight into a figure-eight sticky-backing sprint-off.  It's not fun and it's not visceral, it's like playing ring around the rosey until someone bleeds to death or runs out of stamina.  And it just looks...dumb to anyone watching.

The combat I'd rather they look at for inspiration is Mortal Online, much more deliberate, weighty and visceral when it comes to melee.  Plus, and weapon you use or spell you cast can also be used from a mount.  And it is exclusively first-person.  Darkfall switched to 3rd person for melee which to me was kind of silly.

With so many team members and so much money they could take a hybrid of the two systems and make them a hell of a lot more fun.

There are plenty of other problems with ESO but combat, and the interactivity that should be paired with it, is central to gameplay in any MMO.  One does a LOT of fighting in MMOs in general and anything short of what I just described would get so boring to me so fast.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

6/13/12 9:31:30 AM#49
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by iceman00

Came from a commenter at, of all places, IGN:

 

"

Whenever I play skyrim, I think 'this game is good, but I wish it didn't have all these intricate visual details, and I wish the combat hewed closer to the well worn tropes of the MMO circa 2004'. Finally someone with the vision to implement cartoony graphics and take out the stressful player-driven content to replace it with auto attacks and autotargetting so I can leave the room during fights."

I don't think people understand that the combat is more active than the usual MMO. Yes, we've only heard them SAY this but, let's give them the benefit of the doubt until we SEE and PLAY the combat.

1. No, they are running on a deficit of integrity at the moment. they will have to pull themselves out of so any statement now starts at a deficit instead of gifting surplus like you are suggesting we do.
 
2. People really dont play TES for the combat in the first place I dont follow why they are trying to make that the focus. I am not saying combat should be good, I am saying its not a key focused feature.
 
3. They will have a really hard time beating Darkfall on the combat front.

I've seen the combat, it's like a floaty version of GW2 mixed with Neverwinter.  It is not Elder Scrolls by any stretch of the imagination, not even 3rd person Elder Scrolls.

For me, it isn't just the combat that bothers me, but that is a big part of it.  If they gave use Skyrim combat with a couple of improvements (hotbar is totally fine for ancillary abilities like potions and switching weapons/spells as opposed to having to pause during a fight) I could overlook the game's other shortcomings.

As for Darkfall, I disagree, I think they could take combat similar to that and refine the hell out of it.  Darkfall has a major flaw in its combat system and that is the 40%+ damage to the back mechanic.  It turns every melee fight into a figure-eight sticky-backing sprint-off.  It's not fun and it's not visceral, it's like playing ring around the rosey until someone bleeds to death or runs out of stamina.  And it just looks...dumb to anyone watching.

The combat I'd rather they look at for inspiration is Mortal Online, much more deliberate, weighty and visceral when it comes to melee.  Plus, and weapon you use or spell you cast can also be used from a mount.  And it is exclusively first-person.  Darkfall switched to 3rd person for melee which to me was kind of silly.

With so many team members and so much money they could take a hybrid of the two systems and make them a hell of a lot more fun.

There are plenty of other problems with ESO but combat, and the interactivity that should be paired with it, is central to gameplay in any MMO.  One does a LOT of fighting in MMOs in general and anything short of what I just described would get so boring to me so fast.

on your darkfall statement things like how much damage is done from the back and how much damage a spell does is extreemly easy to change. What is not easy to change is the physical mechanics, physics, collision etc. Once that is done, the rest is about as hard as text edit on an XML file.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Entinerint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 749

6/13/12 5:47:28 PM#50
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by iceman00

Came from a commenter at, of all places, IGN:

 

"

Whenever I play skyrim, I think 'this game is good, but I wish it didn't have all these intricate visual details, and I wish the combat hewed closer to the well worn tropes of the MMO circa 2004'. Finally someone with the vision to implement cartoony graphics and take out the stressful player-driven content to replace it with auto attacks and autotargetting so I can leave the room during fights."

I don't think people understand that the combat is more active than the usual MMO. Yes, we've only heard them SAY this but, let's give them the benefit of the doubt until we SEE and PLAY the combat.

1. No, they are running on a deficit of integrity at the moment. they will have to pull themselves out of so any statement now starts at a deficit instead of gifting surplus like you are suggesting we do.
 
2. People really dont play TES for the combat in the first place I dont follow why they are trying to make that the focus. I am not saying combat should be good, I am saying its not a key focused feature.
 
3. They will have a really hard time beating Darkfall on the combat front.

I've seen the combat, it's like a floaty version of GW2 mixed with Neverwinter.  It is not Elder Scrolls by any stretch of the imagination, not even 3rd person Elder Scrolls.

For me, it isn't just the combat that bothers me, but that is a big part of it.  If they gave use Skyrim combat with a couple of improvements (hotbar is totally fine for ancillary abilities like potions and switching weapons/spells as opposed to having to pause during a fight) I could overlook the game's other shortcomings.

As for Darkfall, I disagree, I think they could take combat similar to that and refine the hell out of it.  Darkfall has a major flaw in its combat system and that is the 40%+ damage to the back mechanic.  It turns every melee fight into a figure-eight sticky-backing sprint-off.  It's not fun and it's not visceral, it's like playing ring around the rosey until someone bleeds to death or runs out of stamina.  And it just looks...dumb to anyone watching.

The combat I'd rather they look at for inspiration is Mortal Online, much more deliberate, weighty and visceral when it comes to melee.  Plus, and weapon you use or spell you cast can also be used from a mount.  And it is exclusively first-person.  Darkfall switched to 3rd person for melee which to me was kind of silly.

With so many team members and so much money they could take a hybrid of the two systems and make them a hell of a lot more fun.

There are plenty of other problems with ESO but combat, and the interactivity that should be paired with it, is central to gameplay in any MMO.  One does a LOT of fighting in MMOs in general and anything short of what I just described would get so boring to me so fast.

on your darkfall statement things like how much damage is done from the back and how much damage a spell does is extreemly easy to change. What is not easy to change is the physical mechanics, physics, collision etc. Once that is done, the rest is about as hard as text edit on an XML file.

Very true, I really hope this is changed in Darkfal 2.0.

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