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General Discussion  » So I heard you have classes?

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  Sora2810

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 567

 
OP  6/07/12 3:06:33 PM#1

IGN had an interview, during that the interviewee stated there will be classes in the game (3:30 [There was a time in the vid he confirmed classes, I'll look through again.]). It was also said that any class can use any weapon (3:50). 

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/06/06/ign-live-the-elder-scrolls-online-demo-e3-2012

I've been vacant from judging this game because of it being in development; but I feel that ESO doesn't have the touch and feel I experienced in every Elder Scrolls game. How does this make everyone feel?

Personal opinion: I was hyped--then kicked below the belt after hearing that it will be a third-person hotbar style game. However, I reserved that till after I heard more. Hearing it was going to have open dungeons, which I thought to be really neat. I did expect a classless system, holding true to ES gameplay. Being able to choose what weapon or spell I want to use and experience after using them, but it looks like I will have to choose a class and stick with it. 

 

Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

6/07/12 3:24:41 PM#2
Originally posted by Sora2810

IGN had an interview, during that the interviewee stated there will be classes in the game (). It was also said that any class can use any weapon. 

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/06/06/ign-live-the-elder-scrolls-online-demo-e3-2012

I've been vacant from judging this game because of it being in development; but I feel that ESO doesn't have the touch and feel I experienced in every Elder Scrolls game. How does this make everyone feel?

Personal opinion: I was hyped--then kicked below the belt after hearing that it will be a third-person hotbar style game. However, I reserved that till after I heard more. Hearing it was going to have open dungeons, which I thought to be really neat. I did expect a classless system, holding true to ES gameplay. Being able to choose what weapon or spell I want to use and experience after using them, but it looks like I will have to choose a class and stick with it. 

 

 Personally I am not a fan of Skyrim which is the most recent game in this particular genre. However I think it was still a good concept aside from the constant "oh look another cave". I did however really enjoy the mass exploration that game had which made it fun for me.

For what its worth I think chosing a base class is the wrong way to go about this type of game. They need to just say here is your character, and then let the player make their own class. I mean honestly put a list of skills and spells into a game, say you can have this many primary spells and this many secondary, utlity etc.. and then let the players make their own class. I also do not like that they are sticking to magicka, Health and Stamina. That system feels rather lackluster and would wish they went with an AA system simmilar to EQ.

TLDR: Static classes is a slap in the face to this type of game. AA's > Health/Magicka/Stamina

  ZigZags

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/23/10
Posts: 347

6/07/12 5:48:38 PM#3

That doesnt mean you choose a class and you're stuck. You can still make a custom class from what I understand that is unique and different from others. Im holding my breathe a little longer.

Now: Skyrim
Later: ?
Played: M59, UO, EQ, Runescape, DAOC, SB, EQ2, WoW, EVE, Darkfall, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, WAR, SWTOR
BOYCOTTING: EA/BioWare/Origin/SOE

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/07/12 6:05:05 PM#4
I have a feeling there will be 3 classes, fighter, mage & thief.

Wish they had none though. I get the tes system wouldn't work in a mmo as witnessed by afk swimmers in darkfall. But a tes mmo shouldn't have classes. It should have a progression setup something like the secret world imo.
  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1588

6/07/12 6:11:57 PM#5
Originally posted by Sora2810

IGN had an interview, during that the interviewee stated there will be classes in the game (3:30 [There was a time in the vid he confirmed classes, I'll look through again.]). It was also said that any class can use any weapon (3:50). 

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/06/06/ign-live-the-elder-scrolls-online-demo-e3-2012

I've been vacant from judging this game because of it being in development; but I feel that ESO doesn't have the touch and feel I experienced in every Elder Scrolls game. How does this make everyone feel?

Personal opinion: I was hyped--then kicked below the belt after hearing that it will be a third-person hotbar style game. However, I reserved that till after I heard more. Hearing it was going to have open dungeons, which I thought to be really neat. I did expect a classless system, holding true to ES gameplay. Being able to choose what weapon or spell I want to use and experience after using them, but it looks like I will have to choose a class and stick with it. 

 

Well i mean if you look at ES, it really has always had a sort of non-linear class system.  A mage has always used the same basic tree's and the mana resource, but had advanced specialization options. The warrior characters have always been either defense or offense heavy, same with bowmen and their stamina usage(especially in skyrim) and it was hard to mix and match the archetypes.  Personally I really hope they nail that sense of freedom in ESO, because so far everything else seems to add up in a promising fashion. 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  pbowman

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/31/07
Posts: 33

6/07/12 6:13:33 PM#6

Didn't all the other Elder Scroll games have classes?  Skyrim was the first I believe.  But I seem to remember picking my class in the other games.

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

6/07/12 6:31:53 PM#7

You could of mixed and matched int he ES games, alittle bit. I can't remember exactly but couldn't you only join one guild? You could still advance the other skills from other classes but not like if you were part of the guild house? 

Edit never mind I think you could only do quests for one guild house to get gear, sitl not sure though. Has been awhile since I played skyrim.

Well anyway I always chose to be one class anyway so its nothing that is making me cry. I always chose what I was going to be from the start so I didn't gimp myself. You could always, after getting past the point of being an indestructable god to max out all the other skills, but I never played that long and didn't feel the need to play it that long.

In skyrim I was a plated /sword and board/warrior/blacksmith and I could just stand there and get hit for hours and not die.

If TESO had open skills Everyone would be at the end a Super Fireball Shooting, 2h Sword Swinging, Necro Undead Raising, Stealthed, Plated, Healer. Then the game would turn into a gear grinder and who ever had the best gear would win.

Would kinda get old after that.

 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/07/12 7:03:42 PM#8
No because like tsw and both gw. TESO has you picking a limited selection from a pool of abilities. They should go the whole hog, copy tsw and drop classes altogether.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/07/12 7:04:45 PM#9
To add I'm still looking forward to the game, but having classes is my main annoyance
  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

6/07/12 7:15:21 PM#10
Originally posted by ShakyMo
To add I'm still looking forward to the game, but having classes is my main annoyance

Got to wait and see how they sub divide the classes and what the other choices will be in each class. Im sure everyone here already plays one type of class that suits them the best anyway. Like I said before you would have everyone the same at endgame with everything active. Would kinda be lame because there would one super duper build that everyone makes to keep up.

TSW you can only have 2 skill sets active at a time then your limited to your gear which is setup for each class. So you can have 50% bonus to the skill set you choose because you would have to keep the other gear for the other skill set on. I didn't like that method or the game for that matter, Im sure others did and thats why they are playing that game.

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

6/07/12 8:37:12 PM#11
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by Sora2810

IGN had an interview, during that the interviewee stated there will be classes in the game (3:30 [There was a time in the vid he confirmed classes, I'll look through again.]). It was also said that any class can use any weapon (3:50). 

http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/06/06/ign-live-the-elder-scrolls-online-demo-e3-2012

I've been vacant from judging this game because of it being in development; but I feel that ESO doesn't have the touch and feel I experienced in every Elder Scrolls game. How does this make everyone feel?

Personal opinion: I was hyped--then kicked below the belt after hearing that it will be a third-person hotbar style game. However, I reserved that till after I heard more. Hearing it was going to have open dungeons, which I thought to be really neat. I did expect a classless system, holding true to ES gameplay. Being able to choose what weapon or spell I want to use and experience after using them, but it looks like I will have to choose a class and stick with it. 

 

Well i mean if you look at ES, it really has always had a sort of non-linear class system.  A mage has always used the same basic tree's and the mana resource, but had advanced specialization options. The warrior characters have always been either defense or offense heavy, same with bowmen and their stamina usage(especially in skyrim) and it was hard to mix and match the archetypes.  Personally I really hope they nail that sense of freedom in ESO, because so far everything else seems to add up in a promising fashion. 

I think in ES games, "warrior" or "mage" was always a bit of an anachronism.  Sure, there were "classes" leveled "fighter" and "mage" but a fighter could dabble in a big of magic.  (In fact, it was highly recomended.)  Likewise, a "mage" could dabble in some stealth.

That's what I'm waiting to see with the "classes" in ESO.   How rigid are they?  Are "warriors" just going to be more "warriorlike" with the customizations?

  Toxia

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 1308

6/07/12 8:43:11 PM#12

If there WERE no classes, wouldn't the chance(That there might still be, depending on how flexible they are) that one of the possible combinations would be better than most others  that exist, and create a 'Class build of the month/year/game' ?

 

The Deep Web is sca-ry.

  Warmaker

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2240

6/07/12 10:09:04 PM#13
Originally posted by pbowman

Didn't all the other Elder Scroll games have classes?  Skyrim was the first I believe.  But I seem to remember picking my class in the other games.

I've played all the TES games since Daggerfall of 1996-1997 timeframe.  NONE of the TES games since then have had classes.  Zero, zilch, nada, 0.

In the older titles before Skyrim, you had your character and can look at a whole slew of different skillsets.  It was up to you to dabble or specialize as you saw fit.  Even magic was still heavily divided into different sets that you can't master all at once, but you really could try and succeed.  You can get some specialization to help you going in a direction more efficiently but you could literally try anything and get better with it by doing the proper action.  You became a better 2h swordsman by using 2h swords.  You became a better alchemist by experimenting in making potions.  You became a better archer by using bows.  You became better at using heavy armor by equipping and surviving hits with heavy armor.

The only TES title that sort of tried something different was the most recent one, Skyrim.  It was no longer like the traditional giant set of skillsets, but as you levelled up, you spent points to get perks that improved a portion of your skills, like earning points to spend on 1H sword skilltree.  Skill advancement was no longer purely defined by how much you performed a specific action.  Your skills can still advance by using it in action, i.e. 1h sword skill improving via constant use of that in combat, but what made it really different was that when you levelled and got a point to spend on a perk, you could acquire a perk to improve an aspect you haven't worked on as much (or improve what you were working on).  Skyrim's system was more heavily defined by these "perks" compared to prior TES games being 100% reliant on character actions.  But abilities still were able to improve via successful usage.  Skyrim's system is still very open to player freedom, but not the exact way as the older titles.

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

6/08/12 8:01:27 AM#14
Originally posted by Warmaker
Originally posted by pbowman

Didn't all the other Elder Scroll games have classes?  Skyrim was the first I believe.  But I seem to remember picking my class in the other games.

I've played all the TES games since Daggerfall of 1996-1997 timeframe.  NONE of the TES games since then have had classes.  Zero, zilch, nada, 0.

In the older titles before Skyrim, you had your character and can look at a whole slew of different skillsets.  It was up to you to dabble or specialize as you saw fit.  Even magic was still heavily divided into different sets that you can't master all at once, but you really could try and succeed.  You can get some specialization to help you going in a direction more efficiently but you could literally try anything and get better with it by doing the proper action.  You became a better 2h swordsman by using 2h swords.  You became a better alchemist by experimenting in making potions.  You became a better archer by using bows.  You became better at using heavy armor by equipping and surviving hits with heavy armor.

The only TES title that sort of tried something different was the most recent one, Skyrim.  It was no longer like the traditional giant set of skillsets, but as you levelled up, you spent points to get perks that improved a portion of your skills, like earning points to spend on 1H sword skilltree.  Skill advancement was no longer purely defined by how much you performed a specific action.  Your skills can still advance by using it in action, i.e. 1h sword skill improving via constant use of that in combat, but what made it really different was that when you levelled and got a point to spend on a perk, you could acquire a perk to improve an aspect you haven't worked on as much (or improve what you were working on).  Skyrim's system was more heavily defined by these "perks" compared to prior TES games being 100% reliant on character actions.  But abilities still were able to improve via successful usage.  Skyrim's system is still very open to player freedom, but not the exact way as the older titles.

someone prooved a few weeks ago that Morrowind actually did have classes with charts and everything HOWEVER, clearly myself like you never even noticed it and its likely only had a small affect in game play so it is a strawman (people who claim morrowind had classes) but I thought I would make you aware of it.

 

In technology there is something called diffusion of innovation and in my mind any game with a 'class' is a lagard by design and I have little intrest in it. classes and 3rd person view are pretty much deal breakers for me. The game would have to be completely amazing in other aspects or I would have to be really bored to compromise on those two principles of mine.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

6/08/12 8:20:20 AM#15
Originally posted by Toxia

If there WERE no classes, wouldn't the chance(That there might still be, depending on how flexible they are) that one of the possible combinations would be better than most others  that exist, and create a 'Class build of the month/year/game' ?

 

Regardless of whether or not there are classes, there will always be a build of the day, week, month and year.

It all depends on how they implement it, so that even when you have 1000 players with the same build, only the best and skilled are recognized. Because that particular build matches their play style.

But in TESO, they already mentioned that there will be Trinity, and only those build in pure healing will be viable in dungeons. I didn't quote, but it was stated by MMORPG's E3 coverage of TESO, or i heard it watch G4 coverage of TESO during E3.

This means that because of Trinity, only Pure Tanks can tank, Pure Healers can heal, and everything else can just solo.

There is already hundreds of MMO with this system, at this period of gaming cycle, where you have TSW and GW2 giving players something totally different, i just don't understand why TESO would go back to tired and over used systems.

PS: class based: all current games have a most effective and efficient build for healers, tanks and dps, they even have the rotation that gives the best outcome.

        classless : most effective and efficient build for situations, but if someone already doing it and is doing it better than you, you change your skills and find the next flavor of the day, week, month, year. Or play the way you want to play.  Or just follow the given rotations for the best outcome.

so regardless of class or classless its pretty much the same.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

6/08/12 8:27:05 AM#16
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Warmaker
Originally posted by pbowman

Didn't all the other Elder Scroll games have classes?  Skyrim was the first I believe.  But I seem to remember picking my class in the other games.

I've played all the TES games since Daggerfall of 1996-1997 timeframe.  NONE of the TES games since then have had classes.  Zero, zilch, nada, 0.

In the older titles before Skyrim, you had your character and can look at a whole slew of different skillsets.  It was up to you to dabble or specialize as you saw fit.  Even magic was still heavily divided into different sets that you can't master all at once, but you really could try and succeed.  You can get some specialization to help you going in a direction more efficiently but you could literally try anything and get better with it by doing the proper action.  You became a better 2h swordsman by using 2h swords.  You became a better alchemist by experimenting in making potions.  You became a better archer by using bows.  You became better at using heavy armor by equipping and surviving hits with heavy armor.

The only TES title that sort of tried something different was the most recent one, Skyrim.  It was no longer like the traditional giant set of skillsets, but as you levelled up, you spent points to get perks that improved a portion of your skills, like earning points to spend on 1H sword skilltree.  Skill advancement was no longer purely defined by how much you performed a specific action.  Your skills can still advance by using it in action, i.e. 1h sword skill improving via constant use of that in combat, but what made it really different was that when you levelled and got a point to spend on a perk, you could acquire a perk to improve an aspect you haven't worked on as much (or improve what you were working on).  Skyrim's system was more heavily defined by these "perks" compared to prior TES games being 100% reliant on character actions.  But abilities still were able to improve via successful usage.  Skyrim's system is still very open to player freedom, but not the exact way as the older titles.

someone prooved a few weeks ago that Morrowind actually did have classes with charts and everything HOWEVER, clearly myself like you never even noticed it and its likely only had a small affect in game play so it is a strawman (people who claim morrowind had classes) but I thought I would make you aware of it.

 

In technology there is something called diffusion of innovation and in my mind any game with a 'class' is a lagard by design and I have little intrest in it. classes and 3rd person view are pretty much deal breakers for me. The game would have to be completely amazing in other aspects or I would have to be really bored to compromise on those two principles of mine.

Did all the old Elder Scrolls games have classes, NO , not in the general sense that if you are a warrior you can't use magic or if you are not an ranger, you can't use a bow.

Did Morrowind and other Elder Scroll games gives you an general Title for your character, examples: thief, warrior, mage. YES it did, but these titles never limit you in what you can learn or decide to do.

So if I decide that in the very very beginning, I will be a warrior, but once I step into the world, I wanted to use magic, I can, or that I want to use my Bow and forego my 2h sword, then I can as well.

IF TESO said that if i choose to be a healer, but I never heal and decided to use 2H sword and become an Warrior, then TESO succeeded in capturing Elder Scroll's magic.

IF TESO said that if i choose to be a healer, and everything I use is only for healing, that even if I use a 2H sword all my skills are still healing based, then No, it did not capture Elder Scroll's magic. Its just an MMO with the name of Elder Scrolls.

Thats the difference, that is what many Elder Scrolls fans is arguing about.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

6/08/12 8:31:40 AM#17
Originally posted by Lucioon

Did all the old Elder Scrolls games have classes, NO , not in the general sense that if you are a warrior you can't use magic or if you are not an ranger, you can't use a bow.

Did Morrowind and other Elder Scroll games gives you an general Title for your character, examples: thief, warrior, mage. YES it did, but these titles never limit you in what you can learn or decide to do.

So if I decide that in the very very beginning, I will be a warrior, but once I step into the world, I wanted to use magic, I can, or that I want to use my Bow and forego my 2h sword, then I can as well.

IF TESO said that if i choose to be a healer, but I never heal and decided to use 2H sword and become an Warrior, then TESO succeeded in capturing Elder Scroll's magic.

IF TESO said that if i choose to be a healer, and everything I use is only for healing, that even if I use a 2H sword all my skills are still healing based, then No, it did not capture Elder Scroll's magic. Its just an MMO with the name of Elder Scrolls.

Thats the difference, that is what many Elder Scrolls fans is arguing about.

no I totally agree with you. I am just saying a few weeks ago someone trolling decided to make the point that Morrowind did have classes and showed all the screenshots etc. But in the end you are 100% right. Just because a game has a feature hidden in your character screen that nobody pays any attention to doesnt mean its really much of a feature worth talking about I just letting you know is all.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

6/08/12 8:32:52 AM#18
Originally posted by Toxia

If there WERE no classes, wouldn't the chance(That there might still be, depending on how flexible they are) that one of the possible combinations would be better than most others  that exist, and create a 'Class build of the month/year/game' ?

 

Of course, but its not worth gutting a game to prevent it.  Even in class games, you often get FOTM classes, or classes that become OP with the right gear, or the right spec choices, or whatever.  I just don't think its such a huge problem that they should make mahor design decisions to avoid it, and I'm not even sure its entirely avoidable, anyhow.

 

In DAOC, was it an issue?  Yeah, definately - but did it ruin the game?  Hell no.  You know what would have ruined the game?  Removing the customization so that all the classes were balanced, but the same.

 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

6/08/12 8:38:27 AM#19
Originally posted by Vhaln
Originally posted by Toxia

If there WERE no classes, wouldn't the chance(That there might still be, depending on how flexible they are) that one of the possible combinations would be better than most others  that exist, and create a 'Class build of the month/year/game' ?

 

Of course, but its not worth gutting a game to prevent it.  Even in class games, you often get FOTM classes, or classes that become OP with the right gear, or the right spec choices, or whatever.  I just don't think its such a huge problem that they should make mahor design decisions to avoid it, and I'm not even sure its entirely avoidable, anyhow.

 

In DAOC, was it an issue?  Yeah, definately - but did it ruin the game?  Hell no.  You know what would have ruined the game?  Removing the customization so that all the classes were balanced, but the same.

 

the key is equiptment.

You can have maxed out all skills but depending on what you wear a class 'template' will be active.

So for example, if you wear X chest plate your fighting skills will be enchanced greatly but you cant use magic, also true for the inverse. This prevents everyone from being the same while at the same time allowing everyone to do what they want.

Darkfall is moving forward on this idea and I dont know if its patented but somehow I doubt it.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15685

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/08/12 8:39:11 AM#20

Classes yes, locked into a specific role as that class, not so much..

" You won't be able to create your own "classes", as everyone will choose an archetype from the start: tank, healer, mage, rogue, etc.  But once in the game, it's up to you how you build that character.  You can be a tank who wields a healing staff, or a mage who uses a sword and a shield.  Sure a a real healer is still going to do that role better than you, but essentially Matt wants to make sure players can and will take on several roles with their play.  Level 50 may be the cap, he said, but it's just a number.  Progression won't end there."

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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