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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why (most) MMO developers are insane.

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60 posts found
  Breitbart

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 23

6/06/12 8:21:26 PM#21

mmo's died with vanilla wow.  

 

Not, taking STO and SW:TOR as perfect examples, mmo's are dead and are nothing more than lobby-system, heavily instanced cooperative online rpg's that enable suckers that think otherwise to pay $15 bucks for them.

 

STO already lost the ballte, as did WAR and AoC, etc. and now we see TOR losing the battle.  There is only so much that even mmo appologists will put up with.  Paying $15/month for a lobby system rpg isn't one of them. 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12260

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

6/06/12 8:52:08 PM#22
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Except that LOTRO did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that Rift did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that SWTOR has done pretty good, made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

 

So they aren't expecting different results, they are expecting the same reults.  To do very well, make a lot of money, and a lot of gamers will enjoy it.

Add to that, most of the MMOs presented never set out to beat WoW.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  DeaconX

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/08/05
Posts: 3074

Stand up for what you believe; Even if you stand alone.
-==X==-
SHH, my COMMON SENSE is tingling!

6/06/12 8:55:31 PM#23
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Designers don't get their way.  Directors do.  There's a difference mate.


Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4755

6/06/12 9:06:44 PM#24
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

And yet... most of those are horrible examples of WoW clones. You got it right with SWTOR, you are probably right w/ Elder Scrolls (it's all speculation at this point, we have no idea how the game is actually going to ship).

LotRO is definitely not a WoW clone. It plays different, it feels different, it's setup / designed different, and it's also a pretty successful MMO. It's goal was never to 'beat WoW'. It was to make a massive game around Tolkein lore, which, surprise surprise. It did.

Age of Conan, is also very different from WoW in a number of ways. It has gear, quests, and dungeons. Great! must be a complete clone then, right? Age of Conan failed because it was released unfinished. Had nothing to do w/ WoW.

Warhammer, again, was based more around a DAoC model, than the WoW one. Just because something has quests & gear doesn't make it WoW. WAR was far more PvP centered than WoW ever was. Like AoC, it failed because it was released too soon / unfished. It had a lot of bugs, and a lack of support from EA. Nothing to do w/ WoW.

Rift is somewhere in between WAR & WoW. It is probably the next closest thing to a WoW clone, inspite them doing a good number of things differently. It's goal, again, was not to beat WoW. It's also still doing fairly well for a newer developer.

And lastly... calling GW2 a WoW clone is absolutely laughable. It's fantasy, it has gear, it has dungeons... nearly everything else is so different from WoW it would take an entire new thread just to cover this. The developers are also basing their actions off of a design philosophy that is extremely differnet from Blizzard's. Really, a terrible example.

- I'd agree with you (for the most part) if you actually picked good examples, lol. Most of these are basically ignoring most of what these games offered, in an attempt to fit them into the WoW mold. A lot of this seems to be in players heads, and in a way that is insanity. Constantly hoping to the next best thing, only to reduce it down to another WoW clone whether it is or not. This year actually has some good examples of games trying to do things differently. People just need to open their eyes to it.

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/06/12 9:10:23 PM#25
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Nilenya

 

It is true that wow was inspired - alot- by EQ1, but then again you had 2 developers on Wow, having come straight from the two most successfull raiding guilds in EQ1, namely Furor, and Tigole - and so ofcourse there would be inspiration abound. But that DOES NOT make EQ1 a themepark mmo.

 

EQ1 in its original form, from 1999 to roughly planes of power, not including the Ldon expansion was a true Sandbox mmo. 

 

Stop namedropping oldschool mmo's if you cannot put them into context correctly. 

Umm you must have never played AC or UO if you think EQ was a sandbox.

Stop namedropping oldschool mmo's if you cannot put them into context correctly.

Wow man saved me a post. Good job not being rude about it. /salute

 

EQ had several sanboxy feeling items, but in no way/shape/form was there any doubt it was a themepark.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1311

6/06/12 9:23:55 PM#26
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 

"A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary."

An example of a delusion: believing that one knows the thoughts, motives, and intentions of another person or group of persons with whom they have had little to no contact.  It is indeed true that we can never truly know the thoughts of others, and it is delusional to presume we can.

I mean no disrespect, i hope you can appreciate the humor in my response.  As others have pointed out, their motives in making those games were possibly more profit based than based on the notion that someone must  "Kill WOW."  I would correct your original post to something along the lines of:

 

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; profit.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; profit.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; profit.

Rift did the WoW formula; profit.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; profit.

This is once again in jest, I of course have no clue what kind of revenue these businesses saw.  I can only assume it wasn't terrible as they seem to have stuck with the plan and every one of these games is still live!

  Suraknar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 813

*Everyone dies, not everyone really fights*

6/06/12 9:25:56 PM#27
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

My conclusion based on observation of the evolution of the genre, and all these failures you mention is that I am not sure that it is the Devellopers that want to do the WoW formula...

It is the Producers...because they have to please the Investors witha Formula that has been proven to work...

The Investors are not necessarilly gamers, they may not even have the slightest idea what an MMO really is...all they play with is Money, they are in it for the Money and Short term gain is their goal, and will insist on the money being spent to a winning formula, otherwise they will not invest, and there will not be a game if they do not do, or it will be develloped Indy...and then players will not bother checking it...(which is a nother story).

So...really a vicious circle here, that we are all cought in to. This is why, alternative approach to funding is on the rise, if you want one day for someone to make a game that you would like to play.

- Duke Suraknar -
Order of the Silver Star, OSS


ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

6/07/12 7:06:32 PM#28
Originally posted by aesperus

LotRO is definitely not a WoW clone. It plays different, it feels different, it's setup / designed different, and it's also a pretty successful MMO. It's goal was never to 'beat WoW'. It was to make a massive game around Tolkein lore, which, surprise surprise. It did.

Rather than being brief, I want to paste an entire email that I sent my friends back in March 2007 while playing in the LotRO beta:

I'm already in the beta, and I gotta say... I will not be surprised in the least if Blizzard actually files a lawsuit for copyright infringement. The game is WoW. It is WoW. It would take less time to list off the differences than to list off the similarities. Everything, everything, is WoW.
 
Cheap autopilot travel between towns that you've already visited.
Quest NPCs have an icon over their head.
Identical quest dialogue window, with selectable quest rewards.
Quest rewards are Bind on Acquire, everything else is Bind on Equip.
Quest reminders on the right side of the screen tell you in small text the name of the quest and your 3/8 Boar Ribs status.
Going into stealth makes you crouch over, go transparent, and makes a "bwooooo" sound.
Many professions, but each character can only choose a few of them.
Trade skills require you to find a more advanced trainer after each interval, and they never fail and always give skill points if not too easy.
New skills are bought at a class trainer every even-numbered level.
Items and skills with cooldown become dimmed and then fade back in in a clockwise-manner.
Your portrait, hp and mp bars are on the top left -- people in your group appear below that, slightly smaller.
Enemy portrait, hp and mp bars are top center, and if the mob is unique then the portrait is encircled in a different color and style.
No experience lost on death, just your equipment loses durability.
Auction house... geez, the auction house...
 
When I say that the auction house is identical, I mean that it would take minutes for an experienced guild, working together, to confidently conclude which game they are in just by looking at the auction house alone.

I haven't gotten far enough into the game (and don't know enough about WoW, honestly) to see what other parallels there are, but what I've seen so far is practically appalling. Whatever innovations they've managed to fit in are way outshined by the blatant plagiarism. To me, this game looks like what you would get you asked somebody to make a WoW-killer, but that person had never played any other video game ever other than WoW.
 
I mean, don't let that dissuade you guys from trying it out if you want to... I suppose that if someone is a big fan of WoW then they will probably like this too. But don't expect much more than you would from a WoW expansion, because that is effectively what this feels like.
 
This probably seems silly given that this is a laundry list things that've become standard MMO UI (and it doesn't help that it's written in my signature overreactive style) but you may not realize that prior to WoW, no MMO had these things, or at most they only had one or two. This beta was shortly after I had ended a long run of FFXI followed by a short stint in vanilla WoW (just before BC). FFXI had zero of the characteristics on this list. EQ had zero. AO had zero. CoH might have had clockwise cooldown buttons, I don't remember... other than that, probably zero.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that everyone would laugh if you called Rift a WoW clone based on the quest icons and the crouching transparent stealth. Those have become standard among most or all MMOs. LotRO ripped them from WoW back when WoW really was the only game doing them. It set the pace for how much copying developers could get away with. For the time it was released—a little more than 2 years after WoW—it was a shameless clone.

  User Deleted
6/08/12 5:01:16 AM#29


Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by dotdotdash Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. ... Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part. The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part. ... This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
See this is all in your head, that everybody is copying WoW.

 

LoTRO for example, is AC3 with LoTR IP on top. follow AC1-3 you can see how it was slowly changing from Sandbox to themepark over time.

 

also keep in mind that the Themepark model, which we tend to call WoW clones now days, was done by Everquest 1, years in advance, which is what the model is based fully on with added perks. WoW is no different in that logic as well.WoW is the most popular MMO on the market, so people compare everything to it, but seem to forget the parts where they try to be unique in.WoW is a clone of EQ1 with a few less time sinks. nothing really unique about it.  Post WoW MMO, have many unique concepts. you just over look them.



Lotro is a WOW clone.
WoW has many features of EQ and even some korean grinders cropped together 2005, but TIER "ENDGAME" Raiding with gear gates in this extend is sure one thing which is unique to WOW.
In EQ there was still the ROAD, not just ___only___ "the endgame".

And that is the "formular".


The core of Lotro is exactly the core of WOW which does eliminate ANY sort of horizontal progression systems as well as any "sandbox" elements.This outweights anything else which made LOTRO simmilar to AC1 - 2.

The epic book nor the fellow ship combos change anything in that.


Part of the issue is, they don't actually "copy" it, they *try* to copy it without understanding that WOW had and still has issues with this system itself. Every features has a track record, a pending fix and reinvented itself a few times in WOW.

Take Tier Raiding for example. One year it's restrictive as hell, by the end of the following year it's lackluster and allows quick catching up for twinks. That "forumlar" is everchanging and still developing. Itemgates have a lifecycle, restrictions change with patches.

A poorly reengineered copy of a flawed system does not ring success in my theorybook. They don't understand that a snapshot of a "living" formular slapped over your game will not work.

Just having an itemgate is not enough, you need also the lifecycels for a successfull copy. For that cycle you also need the itemization. If your items don't progress nor have the stat valuation you might reconsider if having an itemgating at all is a good idea.
(Read: Radiance in lotro back in moria / mirkwood)


  User Deleted
6/08/12 5:12:30 AM#30
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

 

Here, for you to enjoy (and possibly inform yourself):

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgz4wa9VN6k&list=ELTi5WeO992Uo&index=0&feature=plcp

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

6/08/12 5:21:18 AM#31
Originally posted by dotdotdash

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Including trolling.  And misquotes.  Ah, what's the use, he's a one-shot anyway.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Kaisen_Dexx

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/06
Posts: 283

6/08/12 5:34:17 AM#32
Originally posted by Disdena
Originally posted by aesperus

LotRO is definitely not a WoW clone. It plays different, it feels different, it's setup / designed different, and it's also a pretty successful MMO. It's goal was never to 'beat WoW'. It was to make a massive game around Tolkein lore, which, surprise surprise. It did.

Rather than being brief, I want to paste an entire email that I sent my friends back in March 2007 while playing in the LotRO beta:

I'm already in the beta, and I gotta say... I will not be surprised in the least if Blizzard actually files a lawsuit for copyright infringement. The game is WoW. It is WoW. It would take less time to list off the differences than to list off the similarities. Everything, everything, is WoW.
 
Cheap autopilot travel between towns that you've already visited.
Quest NPCs have an icon over their head.
Identical quest dialogue window, with selectable quest rewards.
Quest rewards are Bind on Acquire, everything else is Bind on Equip.
Quest reminders on the right side of the screen tell you in small text the name of the quest and your 3/8 Boar Ribs status.
Going into stealth makes you crouch over, go transparent, and makes a "bwooooo" sound.
Many professions, but each character can only choose a few of them.
Trade skills require you to find a more advanced trainer after each interval, and they never fail and always give skill points if not too easy.
New skills are bought at a class trainer every even-numbered level.
Items and skills with cooldown become dimmed and then fade back in in a clockwise-manner.
Your portrait, hp and mp bars are on the top left -- people in your group appear below that, slightly smaller.
Enemy portrait, hp and mp bars are top center, and if the mob is unique then the portrait is encircled in a different color and style.
No experience lost on death, just your equipment loses durability.
Auction house... geez, the auction house...
 
When I say that the auction house is identical, I mean that it would take minutes for an experienced guild, working together, to confidently conclude which game they are in just by looking at the auction house alone.

I haven't gotten far enough into the game (and don't know enough about WoW, honestly) to see what other parallels there are, but what I've seen so far is practically appalling. Whatever innovations they've managed to fit in are way outshined by the blatant plagiarism. To me, this game looks like what you would get you asked somebody to make a WoW-killer, but that person had never played any other video game ever other than WoW.
 
I mean, don't let that dissuade you guys from trying it out if you want to... I suppose that if someone is a big fan of WoW then they will probably like this too. But don't expect much more than you would from a WoW expansion, because that is effectively what this feels like.
 
This probably seems silly given that this is a laundry list things that've become standard MMO UI (and it doesn't help that it's written in my signature overreactive style) but you may not realize that prior to WoW, no MMO had these things, or at most they only had one or two. This beta was shortly after I had ended a long run of FFXI followed by a short stint in vanilla WoW (just before BC). FFXI had zero of the characteristics on this list. EQ had zero. AO had zero. CoH might have had clockwise cooldown buttons, I don't remember... other than that, probably zero.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that everyone would laugh if you called Rift a WoW clone based on the quest icons and the crouching transparent stealth. Those have become standard among most or all MMOs. LotRO ripped them from WoW back when WoW really was the only game doing them. It set the pace for how much copying developers could get away with. For the time it was released—a little more than 2 years after WoW—it was a shameless clone.

Thats...actually quite amazing. Reading that threw me back into an old perspective (I felt the same back then), and the realization just how much of that is now taken for granted as standard is amazing. It seems the standard may have become so ingrained into our minds that minute differences in actual design may be interpreted as massive. Starting to wonder if GW2 really is that large of a leap from the rest now. Certainly key aspects like the base shift from competition to cooperation seem large...but now I just can't help but wonder if current design has become so standardized that I cannot imagine a new direction.

Frightening thought really. As a hobby I like to analyze and design game systems/mechanics, and now I'm wondering if I have been so unconditionally biased in them that they're all really the same design with merely a different shade of lipstick.

Thanks for that. Its given me something to think about, even if right now its just exhaustion and the booze doing the thinking.

  Valua

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 521

6/08/12 5:54:01 AM#33
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

 

Here, for you to enjoy (and possibly inform yourself):

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgz4wa9VN6k&list=ELTi5WeO992Uo&index=0&feature=plcp

 

I still see the massive similarities? 

 

If you don't then you are deluded.

 

I wouldn't call GW2 a WoW clone, like Rift, but it's not far off.

  User Deleted
6/08/12 6:04:18 AM#34
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

 

Here, for you to enjoy (and possibly inform yourself):

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgz4wa9VN6k&list=ELTi5WeO992Uo&index=0&feature=plcp

 

I still see the massive similarities? 

 

If you don't then you are deluded.

 

I wouldn't call GW2 a WoW clone, like Rift, but it's not far off.

A BMW and a Trabant also have similarities... both are cars, both have wheels, both have a motor, and both were made in a country called "Germany".

If you go this way, WoW is a UO clone... don't make me repost the facepalming Polar Bear picture, please ;)

EDIT: nevermind, just saw your post history and I see where you come from... my bad for not checking before - if you think GW2 is close to a WOW clone, I invite you to try the game, because you will then know how wrong such an affirmation is.

  User Deleted
6/08/12 6:51:18 AM#35

GW2 isn't a pure WOW clone, but it's still an EQ based mmo. Huge focus on combat, quests, dungeons, BG's, rvr, normalc rafting, fantasy, etc. This isn't a bad thing.

You know what a real, non themepark style mmorpg would be like? Western, third-person shooter, no quests or dungeons, taming and riding horse, but with a compex mechanic to make hard, open world pvp with outlaws, robbing trains, etc.

There, a compete non wow clone mmo. Why don't devs do it? Because a AAA company banking millions of dollars on a video game isn't going to put it in a game that's so strange and different that it may not allow them to recover their money.

EQ type themepark with modifications earns the money. Do they lose players over time? Of course, but it's a far less insane move.

  User Deleted
6/08/12 6:55:41 AM#36
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

GW2 isn't a pure WOW clone, but it's still an EQ based mmo. Huge focus on combat, quests, dungeons, BG's, rvr, normalc rafting, fantasy, etc. This isn't a bad thing.

I agree on the "huge focus on combat" part, but GW2 is more a Asheron's Call 1 clone than it will ever be an EQ clone. People who played AC1 know what I'm talking about (AC1 was also combat centric).

  Valkaern

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/03
Posts: 513

6/08/12 7:43:06 AM#37

You undermined your intended topic by drawing some poor comparisons that were too much of a stretch and not critical to your overall point.

While I agree that the reptition of the WoW formula caused a huge stalling out in terms of MMOs actually developing, no one with first hand experience would find the parallels you draw to be apt. Some of the games you list are quite simply much better compared with games other than WoW. 

Look at the overall game experiences in Horizons, Shadowbane, AC1 & AC2, DAoC, Ryzom, Wish, and EQ for starters, then consider if WoW is really the most accurate comparison for all the games on your above list. GW2 for example steers away from some of the largest elements of WoWs recipe (linear task hub grinding advancement, and gear driven endgame raid grinding), which, anyone who's played GW2 can tell you, makes for a much different experience than the WoW experience.

WoW is simply not the first name that comes to mind when searching for the most accurate comparison for a number of the games you listed. 

  User Deleted
6/08/12 10:57:00 AM#38
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

GW2 isn't a pure WOW clone, but it's still an EQ based mmo. Huge focus on combat, quests, dungeons, BG's, rvr, normalc rafting, fantasy, etc. This isn't a bad thing.

I agree on the "huge focus on combat" part, but GW2 is more a Asheron's Call 1 clone than it will ever be an EQ clone. People who played AC1 know what I'm talking about (AC1 was also combat centric).

Never played AC since i'm not from that time ;), but GW2 is based on EQ themepark style.

PVP is BG's and large scale, difference is that you can jump from level 2 do to the way it's made

PVE is quests (PS and DE, so to speak), dungeons, crafting, advancing in areas with more of the same content until max level, drain content, wait for more.

is this bad? Not at all. GW2, while a themepark, is more opened than normal wow clones for example, and there's also scaling. Don't take it the wrong way, i'm not hating on it, since i just said it's not a wow clone.

EDIT: Back on topic, FPS'ers are very popular with the masses, even non gamers, that's why there so many of them. Devs make what's popular. MMORPG are a huge risk to make. It's not just make it, sell box and be done with it. They have to keep updating, fixing, improving for a long time.

  User Deleted
6/08/12 11:09:46 AM#39
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

GW2 isn't a pure WOW clone, but it's still an EQ based mmo. Huge focus on combat, quests, dungeons, BG's, rvr, normalc rafting, fantasy, etc. This isn't a bad thing.

I agree on the "huge focus on combat" part, but GW2 is more a Asheron's Call 1 clone than it will ever be an EQ clone. People who played AC1 know what I'm talking about (AC1 was also combat centric).

Never played AC since i'm not from that time ;),

This explains a lot... a WoW clone generation person always has a hard time to imagine something else can exist.

but GW2 is based on EQ themepark style.

Nope, it isn't. It's a mix of several styles, and it definitely totally breaks from the EQ clone "gear carrot" style.

PVP is BG's and large scale, difference is that you can jump from level 2 do to the way it's made

This is a general observation, just like "every car uses some kind of fuel" would be.

PVE is quests (PS and DE, so to speak), dungeons, crafting, advancing in areas with more of the same content until max level, drain content, wait for more.

Same as for PvP, except that "end game" starts at level 1 in GW2. You're actually saying "zomg, a MMORPG is looking like... a MMORPG". You must be the grandkid of sherlock holmes for such an insightful observation really ;)

is this bad? Not at all. GW2, while a themepark, is more opened than normal wow clones for example, and there's also scaling. Don't take it the wrong way, i'm not hating on it, since i just said it's not a wow clone.

So you say it's the same, and now you say it's different... make up your mind?

 

  User Deleted
6/08/12 11:40:19 AM#40
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
Originally posted by The_Korrigan
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

 

This explains a lot... a WoW clone generation person always has a hard time to imagine something else can exist.

 

Smart comebck. I don't like WOW clones myself. I prefer sandboxes to themeparks. But acording to you, i don't know they exist. ;) Take it easy.

Look, we'll just get into semantics at this point. I guess that what defines EQ themepark is different for both of us and i think the huge "Themeparks vs sandbox" comparision threads are enough to tells to stay away.

To me, GW2 is still a normal themepark, simply improved upon it's features, like combat, questing, scaling, etc. To me, that's not that special. I presonally don't see anything that makes it truly that different.

To you, the definition is not the same. So we'll leave it at that. Like i say i'm not hating on the game. Let's not try to kill each ;)

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