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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why are "cash shops" in subscription based games acceptable?

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  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  6/05/12 10:13:27 AM#1

Just wondering why people readily accept games that have "Cash Shops" in products that already require a monthly fee AND paid expansions?

 

Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the cash shop? I shouldn't have to buy the box, pay a monthly fee, pay for expansions, AND pay for extra "fluff" content that i've already paid for to begin with!!!

 

It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they ask you to buy a seat to watch the movie. Sure, you could stand in the back and watch it, but by the time the movie is over your legs are jelly and your face is stuck to that disgusting floor because the movie dragged on for 2hrs.

 

Don't get me wrong. CCP are one of the best companies running an MMO nowadays. Their product may not be very popular, but they certainly know how to run an MMO. $20 "digital box" price (that's been on sale recently down to $6), $15/month fee, with FREE expansions & they even doubled-back on their planned cash shop for "fluff" avatar clothing because they listened to the players who said "NO!". 

 

I'm also an advocate for monthly fees over "Free to Play", however that's another box of chocolates :]!

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13657

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

6/05/12 10:17:13 AM#2
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the expansion box.

It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they sell popcorn and candy.

 

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  6/05/12 10:24:42 AM#3
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the expansion box.

It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they sell popcorn and candy.

 

What :|

 

Why did you edit several points in my post completely changing the whole idea? 

 

The point of this thread is discussing the disrespectful use of "Cash Shops". Your edit didn't even make sense at all.

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  s1fu71

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/10
Posts: 220

6/05/12 10:28:43 AM#4

I think people "readily accept" a cash shop in a subscription model if they perceive that nothing in the cash shop gives an unfair advantage. In other words, if the cash shop offers fluff, or if it offers things  you can get in game with enough play.

I'm not defending cash shops at all. But, I often see people accept them if this is their perception. Mostly I see casuals say things like, "I don't have the time to raid and get this gear. But, I can pay for it or something similar."

I don't particularly care. The only cash shop I used was for DCUO. I'm on their F2P model. I spent a few bucks on getting more character slots. Perhaps that wasn't the best example since I don't sub. But, it's the only example I have. I don't see people in game really complaining or praising the cash shop in game.

It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

6/05/12 10:31:11 AM#5


Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Fadedbomb Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the expansion box. It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they sell popcorn and candy.
 
What :|

 

Why did you edit several points in my post completely changing the whole idea? 

 

The point of this thread is discussing the disrespectful use of "Cash Shops". Your edit didn't even make sense at all.




There's nothing disrespectful about cash shops. There's nothing respectful about cash shops. It's not 'good' or 'evil'. It's an amoral activity, not an immoral activity.

Companies* are looking for ways to make money. The idea that they're going to make 'enough' money and be done is silly. It's never going to happen. If it's possible for them to make money by putting cash shops in games, they will.

The only control on the situation is the gamers themselves. If they buy more stuff in a cash shop, on top of paying a sub, then the developers were right to put the cash shop in, because the players give them money for putting it in there.

* Developers who release games are companies.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Gdemami

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 8004

6/05/12 10:31:37 AM#6


Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Do people not realize that you're paying the developers

You are not paying the developers, you are paying for product. Once you give out the money, they are no longer yours thus stop making demands how the receiver should spent them.


Originally posted by Fadedbomb

The point of this thread is discussing the disrespectful use of "Cash Shops". Your edit didn't even make sense at all.

Just because you don't get the point of the post, does not mean it is lacking one...

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13657

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

6/05/12 10:32:05 AM#7
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the expansion box.

It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they sell popcorn and candy.

 

What :|

Well, in your first highlight, you ask why people would accept cash shops when there are paid expansions. The two are often the same so it would be odd to find one acceptable and not the other.

In your second highlight, you separate expansion and additional items again, which is also odd, especially when you are talking about optional fluff content compared to expansion content which you often need to buy in order to progress further (new skills progression, raised level cap, better gear, etc).

In your third highlight, you create the odd analogy of having to buy a seat... when that's what the ticket is for. If you don't believe me, try to buy a ticket for a movie in a theatre at capacity. A more realistic comparison to fluff items in a video game would be the theater's concession stand. Should your popcorn and soda be free? If you feel it should be included in the price, do you mind paying a higher price for movies to allow for free popcorn and soda, even if you don't want any?

 

There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein

  rammur65

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 57

6/05/12 10:33:54 AM#8

Well the obvious answer is people are ACTUALLy paying and using them cash shop only reason companies are putting them in they benefit from it. If people would boycott them and just flat out stop using them then they wouldnt be putting them in.

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2642

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

6/05/12 10:35:22 AM#9

I don't play games that have Box purchase + Sub Fee + Cash Shop + Expansion purchase. If you don't like it do the same and vote with your wallet.

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1687

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

6/05/12 10:36:34 AM#10
Originally posted by Xzen

I don't play games that have Box purchase + Sub Fee + Cash Shop + Expansion purchase. If you don't like it do the same and vote with your wallet.

+1, although it's a bit different if the introduce the shop etc. after you're invested in the game.

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  6/05/12 10:38:15 AM#11
Originally posted by Karahandras
Originally posted by Xzen

I don't play games that have Box purchase + Sub Fee + Cash Shop + Expansion purchase. If you don't like it do the same and vote with your wallet.

+1, although it's a bit different if the introduce the shop etc. after you're invested in the game.

I voted with my wallet with RIFT, SWTOR, and now Diablo 3.

Similarly, I'll do the same for TSW when it releases. 

 

You're preaching to the choir :]!

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  User Deleted
6/05/12 10:38:56 AM#12
Originally posted by Xzen

I don't play games that have Box purchase + Sub Fee + Cash Shop + Expansion purchase. If you don't like it do the same and vote with your wallet.

You can vote with your wallet all you want, but then why do they still keep poping up?

The gamers are the ones responsible for all this bullsh**. While devs where out there trying to make AAA mmorpg, lazy devs copied wow, charged horrible CS prices.

Which one did you pick? The F2P. Then devs saw they could also use it. if F2P can, why not AAA titles. You shouldn't have bought from ANY CS in the first place. Doesn't matter if it's F2P. It's like DLC. You gave companies ideas, and now we have day 1 DLC and endings getting cut off from the main product.

And why should B2P get away with it. I paid for my box price. Want more money? Charge a sub fee so everyones on equal pace. Getting all items from Cash shops costs far more than paying a sub at the end of the year anyway.

I hate all this crap with mmos and video games in general, but it's the gamers fault for allowing this. You people still buy at launch day, never wait just 1 stupid month and then come QQ about wasting your money.

We gamers gave them the idea of nickle and dime. We are the ones wasting money left and right without controll. So now, we pay what it gave.

 

 

  Laughing-man

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3506

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

6/05/12 10:39:13 AM#13

Before we had cash shops in pay to play games there WAS no way to have a race change, name change, or transfer servers.

Would you prefer it that way?  LESS choices?  LESS options?

There are two ways this can go.

A.  We have games that offer premium services that go above and beyond what is expected of a subscription fee, cosmetic things.

B.  We don't have these services offered at all.

 

Almost every gamer will tell you they'd prefer A, a world where they have the choice.

  teakbois

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 2190

6/05/12 10:39:54 AM#14
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Just wondering why people readily accept games that have "Cash Shops" in products that already require a monthly fee AND paid expansions?

 

Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the cash shop? I shouldn't have to buy the box, pay a monthly fee, pay for expansions, AND pay for extra "fluff" content that i've already paid for to begin with!!!

 

It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they ask you to buy a seat to watch the movie. Sure, you could stand in the back and watch it, but by the time the movie is over your legs are jelly and your face is stuck to that disgusting floor because the movie dragged on for 2hrs.

 

Don't get me wrong. CCP are one of the best companies running an MMO nowadays. Their product may not be very popular, but they certainly know how to run an MMO. $20 "digital box" price (that's been on sale recently down to $6), $15/month fee, with FREE expansions & they even doubled-back on their planned cash shop for "fluff" avatar clothing because they listened to the players who said "NO!". 

 

I'm also an advocate for monthly fees over "Free to Play", however that's another box of chocolates :]!

Dont forget that CCP sell's PLEXes which can be lost in game, so it takes in more than 15 a month per subscriber.  They also have the second (third if you count swtor) highest player base in the west so they take in more sub fees than anyone besides WoW, and their game takes a smaller dev base to produce content for due to the nature of the game.  EvE is a unique entity and can't really be used to compare

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  6/05/12 10:40:55 AM#15
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Do people not realize that you're paying the developers

 

You are not paying the developers, you are paying for product. Once you give out the money, they are no longer yours thus stop making demands how the receiver should spent them.

 


Originally posted by Fadedbomb

The point of this thread is discussing the disrespectful use of "Cash Shops". Your edit didn't even make sense at all.

 

Just because you don't get the point of the post, does not mean it is lacking one...

Actually the entire point of a subscription to to pay for further developed content (ie: you've already paid for what they develope in the future as long as you have an active subscription). That means you're paying them to develope content for the cash shop only for them to turn around and sell it back to you.

 

Believe me, I've been around the MMO market a very long time. I've had this discussion with developers & suits from SOE all the way to Blizzard. They use your sub to develope that cash-shop content only to resell it back to you. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those developers to make content for those item-malls? Chicken before the egg scenario :).

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  Laughing-man

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3506

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

6/05/12 10:41:32 AM#16
Originally posted by teakbois

Dont forget that CCP sell's PLEXes which can be lost in game, so it takes in more than 15 a month per subscriber.  They also have the second (third if you count swtor) highest player base in the west so they take in more sub fees than anyone besides WoW, and their game takes a smaller dev base to produce content for due to the nature of the game.  EvE is a unique entity and can't really be used to compare

I've friends who've never paid for EvE, they earn enough money in game to just pay for it that way....

Yeah thats bad right? 

 

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

6/05/12 10:42:03 AM#17

It is not acceptable for me.  I vote no with my wallet.

One of biggest reasons I don't buy TSW.

  Fadedbomb

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 2149

 
OP  6/05/12 10:43:03 AM#18
Originally posted by Laughing-man

Before we had cash shops in pay to play games there WAS no way to have a race change, name change, or transfer servers.

Would you prefer it that way?  LESS choices?  LESS options?

There are two ways this can go.

A.  We have games that offer premium services that go above and beyond what is expected of a subscription fee, cosmetic things.

B.  We don't have these services offered at all.

 

Almost every gamer will tell you they'd prefer A, a world where they have the choice.

There's a difference between SERVICES and CONTENT

SERVICES: Race Change, Name Change, Server Transfers.

CONTENT: Clothing, Mounts, Weapon Textures, Armor Dyes, Armor Textures, Houses, GuildHalls, etc

 

See my point? I have no problem with SERVICES. What I have a problem with is the latter.

 

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

6/05/12 10:44:16 AM#19

Some reason gold buying is now acceptable. All game companies what is to suck as much money from the gamers as possible. I spend at least 10 times a year on games now than I did in 1999 but I only get to play a few months of that year (Piss poor games) in worlds that aren't even a 50th of old school MMO worlds.

  Gdemami

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 8004

6/05/12 10:45:20 AM#20


Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Actually the entire point of a subscription to..

..is to make money. No more, no less.


You are not paying them to do xxx. You either pay the price for what is offered(product or service) or you don't.


I do not think it can be put simpler...

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