Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Ozmodan

I just don't see how permadeath can work in a MMO world.  The purpose of a MMO is to build up your character.  With permadeath it is rather pointless unless you just sit in town all day which is pointless in itself.   On top of that you want us to pay for the privilege?  Even if you don't mind dying how are your friends going to know the new you?  Even then if they have a mechanism for that, you will be back at square one while they are doing things you will have to retrain to be able to do.

I just don't see how they will find enough people to support a game.

Well, in HnH (and presumbaly Salem) you build up a series of 'works'. The things you build stay in the world, even after you lose your character and have to come back to it without some of the skills necessary to even use some of them.

The real issue with it, IMO, is FFAPvP. Nobody wants to put effort in either of those factors and just end up losing it all to some asshat. HnH's #1 commodity is rage-quits.

I played on Wurm's PvP servers for quite some time, but it's no permadeath unless a 'champion' character, though, you can lose your other investments. You get used to the idea, and tend to not build anything you're not willing to lose. I eventually went to the PvE servers (where I don't have to worry about my vinyards getting griefed as much) and never looked back. The smartest thing SeaTribe can do is propose both server types.

I agree, PVE server and PVP.  

People can get the hang of the game and meet other individuals in the PVE server, then when they are ready they can move to the PVP servers in one tribe which greatly improves your chances of survival.

Originally posted by OldManFunk

Open PvP and permadeath. Let us know how that works out.

Originally posted by Dakirn

So are you supposed to put all of that time gathering and upping skills to lose them with the permadeath system?

Just wonder how that works.

Originally posted by Realedazed

Originally posted by Cymdai

I tried to like this, but the opening of the game was too pain-staking for me to appreciate.

I wandered west for 2 hours, didn't find a stone. I re-rolled a character and walked an hour to the east, didn't find a stone. Then I walked an hour North, and when I still didn't find a stone, I uninstalled.

I can't justify playing a game for 4 hours and doing absolutely nothing.

I had a similar experience.  I read on the forums that you had to wander forever to find a space that wasn't picked clean.  So, I did so. I got frustrated and then wandered in the other direction. I found a bunch of cool things: smooth stones, flint, etc and all things I could use to level up, I used a few and stock piled the rest. Then, I had to log out.  When I came back online, I couldn't log in at that spot because someone else was occupying it.  What?  My only choice was to teleport back to Boston, with an empty inventory.

Next, I wandered some more, I bit confident that I would find stuff since I leveled a few skills. I did find some rare things and a few arrowheads. Instead of using those skill cosumables, like my gut said, I made mistake #1 andI kept them in my inventory. Then, I made mistake #2 and asked someone where Boston was. Then, got PKed since "going to Boston, means loot to sell".

I just quit and installed right there. I think I spent at least 4-5 hours and it all ways wasted.  Granted, I've never played a full open PVP or whatever its called. And strangly, the few people I did encounter in the world said "hi" or whatever, even if I was trying to avoid them. 

 

I just wish that there were something in place to protect newbies. Even Darkfall as a newbie account safely for the first few hours of play (IIRC).  I guess I don't mind the PVP, but gathering for HOURS just to lose it all, sucks. If I had found my way back to Bostom and sold my arrowheads, I would have gotten a settlement. Maybe I would still be playing, too.  

Originally posted by Ozmodan

I just don't see how permadeath can work in a MMO world.  The purpose of a MMO is to build up your character.  With permadeath it is rather pointless unless you just sit in town all day which is pointless in itself.   On top of that you want us to pay for the privilege?  Even if you don't mind dying how are your friends going to know the new you?  Even then if they have a mechanism for that, you will be back at square one while they are doing things you will have to retrain to be able to do.

I just don't see how they will find enough people to support a game.

Originally posted by TweFoju

Open PVP then Permadeath? well, i guess i might as well do not bother wearing anything on this game

Originally posted by RefMinor

<Stuff>

This is not the game for you, don't even open threads about it, let it pass you by

Yup,  I definately will. I actually like the game, though. If I were able to make some progress, like get my homestead or whatever,  I would still be playing.

I played HnH, I didn't participate in any PVP becaue I never ran into anyone. But I built up a little somewhat secured base and learned to fight. The diference between that game and this one is that it didn't take me 4 hours to get started. In this game players have to wander around for hours  just to get starting learning items or arrowheads to sell for homesteads. In HnH, within minutes of player, I was collecting LP, collecting materials for baskets and my leanto, etc.

But, eh, whatever.

I gotta say, im not a fan of OpenPVP or Permadeath. But the psychology behind it definately intrigues me. Most of the time, those who really love PVP are the ones who have 3 or 4 friends that all play together, and go around ganking solo players, or groups of lower level players. Granted, there are people that genuinely look for a fair fight, im not saying there isnt. But a game like this, just seems like it would draw more of the griefer crowd. Permadeath in general usually means you never want to invest too much into your character, because it doesnt matter how good you think you are, someone (or a group of people) will kill you. Its going to happen.

Honestly the only way i could see myself playing a permadeath game is to be one of those guys.  Invest as little as possible into a character, then spend you time PKing as many as you can, before the eventuality of someone killing you. Which you dont mind, because you have very little to lose, so you reroll and start again. Im not a griefer by nature, but is there any other option in a permadeath OPvP environment?

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by OldManFunk

Open PvP and permadeath. Let us know how that works out.

Originally posted by Dakirn

So are you supposed to put all of that time gathering and upping skills to lose them with the permadeath system?

Just wonder how that works.

Originally posted by Realedazed

Originally posted by Cymdai

I tried to like this, but the opening of the game was too pain-staking for me to appreciate.

I wandered west for 2 hours, didn't find a stone. I re-rolled a character and walked an hour to the east, didn't find a stone. Then I walked an hour North, and when I still didn't find a stone, I uninstalled.

I can't justify playing a game for 4 hours and doing absolutely nothing.

I had a similar experience.  I read on the forums that you had to wander forever to find a space that wasn't picked clean.  So, I did so. I got frustrated and then wandered in the other direction. I found a bunch of cool things: smooth stones, flint, etc and all things I could use to level up, I used a few and stock piled the rest. Then, I had to log out.  When I came back online, I couldn't log in at that spot because someone else was occupying it.  What?  My only choice was to teleport back to Boston, with an empty inventory.

Next, I wandered some more, I bit confident that I would find stuff since I leveled a few skills. I did find some rare things and a few arrowheads. Instead of using those skill cosumables, like my gut said, I made mistake #1 andI kept them in my inventory. Then, I made mistake #2 and asked someone where Boston was. Then, got PKed since "going to Boston, means loot to sell".

I just quit and installed right there. I think I spent at least 4-5 hours and it all ways wasted.  Granted, I've never played a full open PVP or whatever its called. And strangly, the few people I did encounter in the world said "hi" or whatever, even if I was trying to avoid them. 

 

I just wish that there were something in place to protect newbies. Even Darkfall as a newbie account safely for the first few hours of play (IIRC).  I guess I don't mind the PVP, but gathering for HOURS just to lose it all, sucks. If I had found my way back to Bostom and sold my arrowheads, I would have gotten a settlement. Maybe I would still be playing, too.  

Originally posted by Ozmodan

I just don't see how permadeath can work in a MMO world.  The purpose of a MMO is to build up your character.  With permadeath it is rather pointless unless you just sit in town all day which is pointless in itself.   On top of that you want us to pay for the privilege?  Even if you don't mind dying how are your friends going to know the new you?  Even then if they have a mechanism for that, you will be back at square one while they are doing things you will have to retrain to be able to do.

I just don't see how they will find enough people to support a game.

Originally posted by TweFoju

Open PVP then Permadeath? well, i guess i might as well do not bother wearing anything on this game

 

This is not the game for you, don't even open threads about it, let it pass you by

You don't get it do you.  The game has to have a decent playerbase to support itself.  Where are you going to get it?  Right very few people will try it and most of those will eventually quit.  Permadeath just about kills any MMO design feature out there.  It only takes one asshat to make life miserable for a bunch of players.  

Nothing wrong with the sandbox aspects of the game, it actually looks fun, but throw in the permadeath and that in itself basically kills the game.  Look at the other ffapvp games out there, they have big population issues and they don't have permadeath.

My post wasn't whether or not I'd want to play it.. it was how spending hours and hours skilling and/or gather is immediately lost when you're ganked.

I honestly don't understand why this seems like fun to anyone.  I can understanding losing a few minutes, an hour maybe.. but the progression style of an MMO does not make for happy people when you lose months of work because of a gank squad.

I know it's not for me, I just wonder how it can be for anyone.  I guess I can't wrap my mind around what is needed to enjoy a game like this. I guess, maybe, I can understand if someone feels good ganking another person and perminately destroying months of their effort... but I'd never step anywhere near it.

Originally posted by Realedazed
...

I played HnH, I didn't participate in any PVP becaue I never ran into anyone. But I built up a little somewhat secured base and learned to fight. The diference between that game and this one is that it didn't take me 4 hours to get started. In this game players have to wander around for hours  just to get starting learning items or arrowheads to sell for homesteads. In HnH, within minutes of player, I was collecting LP, collecting materials for baskets and my leanto, etc.

But, eh, whatever.

You have a point here. In H&H you're dropped into the game world at a random location when you make your character, in Salem you're dropped in Boston.

I wonder whether that makes a difference, both in how long it takes to find a suitable spot and in getting out of the way of PK-ers.

Edit: To the people wondering about FFA PvP and permadeath: Don't compare H&H with other PvP games, in H&H PvP-ing is possible but it's something that doesn't happen frequently. You can play the game for months (depending on where you settle) without ever having a single PvP encounter.

Hey guys, I really want to test Salem, if you've gotten an invite to play the beta and don't want to play it anymore, please think about giving away your beta access to someone who really want to test it, like me.

Thank you.