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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » ZeniMax 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

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130 posts found
  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1058

6/04/12 9:21:59 PM#101
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Destai

They can be unapologetic all they want. That doesn't guarantee their game will sell. And if the condition of a major IP title like SWTOR is any warning, they'd be well advised to reconsider some ideas. I don't think we know enough about their game to completely dismiss it, but they cannot develop a game without regard to the consumer's tastes. They have multiple audiences to appease and cannot automatically assume that every gamer will jump with glee at their announcements. 

They obviously have a target audience in mind.  I don't see them saying in any way or form that everyone should be happy with what they intend for the game.  Every MMO that that has or will release have their primary player base in mind.  It's the general gaming public that seem to think every game that releases should be targeted specifically at them.

Clearly its been working out...

  Sora2810

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 567

6/04/12 9:22:16 PM#102
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Destai

They can be unapologetic all they want. That doesn't guarantee their game will sell. And if the condition of a major IP title like SWTOR is any warning, they'd be well advised to reconsider some ideas. I don't think we know enough about their game to completely dismiss it, but they cannot develop a game without regard to the consumer's tastes. They have multiple audiences to appease and cannot automatically assume that every gamer will jump with glee at their announcements. 

They obviously have a target audience in mind.  I don't see them saying in any way or form that everyone should be happy with what they intend for the game.  Every MMO that that has or will release have their primary player base in mind.  It's the general gaming public that seem to think every game that releases should be targeted specifically at them.

Oh they do. Everyone and their grandmother. 

Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5225

6/05/12 10:26:08 AM#103
Originally posted by Sora2810
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Destai

They can be unapologetic all they want. That doesn't guarantee their game will sell. And if the condition of a major IP title like SWTOR is any warning, they'd be well advised to reconsider some ideas. I don't think we know enough about their game to completely dismiss it, but they cannot develop a game without regard to the consumer's tastes. They have multiple audiences to appease and cannot automatically assume that every gamer will jump with glee at their announcements. 

They obviously have a target audience in mind.  I don't see them saying in any way or form that everyone should be happy with what they intend for the game.  Every MMO that that has or will release have their primary player base in mind.  It's the general gaming public that seem to think every game that releases should be targeted specifically at them.

Oh they do. Everyone and their grandmother. 

I am their player base and I have no intention of buying this game.

I have all the elder scrolls games going back to Morrowind and its my favorite or near favorite series.

They are focused on a demographic but its clearly not TES players

Correlation does not imply causation

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

6/05/12 11:05:37 AM#104

 

Skyrim units sold in the first 48 hours 3.5 million
Skyrim units sold in the first week release 7 million
Skyrim sales in the first week of release $450 million
Total Skyrim units sold 10 million
Total Skyrim sales $620 million
Average user review rating 92 / 100
Highest number of concurrent players on Steam 280,000 
XBox 360 59 %
Playstation 3 27 %
PC 14 % 
 
 
These are just general statistics taken from http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/
If ZeniMax focused on TES Players, then there is already an established 10 million players that they can count on, yet they are focusing on the Unknown Players that might or might not play MMO, and Might and Might not replace WOW with TESO
 
Is it because the PC numbers are lower than the Console number that they decided to go after the Unknown Players While giving up the potential Follow ups from Skyrim.
 
I am not an Business Student so if someone can shred some lights on their strategy, that might just clear some stuff up.
 
 

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

6/05/12 12:37:55 PM#105

They won't be apologizing to any TES fans. Of course not. But I forsee they will be apologizing to their investors soon enough!

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1654

6/05/12 2:58:40 PM#106
Originally posted by Lucioon

 

Skyrim units sold in the first 48 hours 3.5 million
Skyrim units sold in the first week release 7 million
Skyrim sales in the first week of release $450 million
Total Skyrim units sold 10 million
Total Skyrim sales $620 million
Average user review rating 92 / 100
Highest number of concurrent players on Steam 280,000 
XBox 360 59 %
Playstation 3 27 %
PC 14 % 
 
 
These are just general statistics taken from http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/
If ZeniMax focused on TES Players, then there is already an established 10 million players that they can count on, yet they are focusing on the Unknown Players that might or might not play MMO, and Might and Might not replace WOW with TESO
 
Is it because the PC numbers are lower than the Console number that they decided to go after the Unknown Players While giving up the potential Follow ups from Skyrim.
 
I am not an Business Student so if someone can shred some lights on their strategy, that might just clear some stuff up.
 
 

 He did call skyrim a console game.

But what he, and maybe a lot of other people don't get though, just because a lot of people purchased it for a console doesn't mean that they did so because they don't play PC games.

I got the PS3 version.  I didn't get it for the PC because I wanted to play with a controller, and since it's a single player game I didn't see any need to have to fuss with my keyboard and mouse while playing a single player game.   It was just easier to get it for the PS3 then to worry about whether or not my PC could handle it or whether or not my PC controller would work well enough.  And frankly, I prefer the controller over the mouse and keyboard for FPS style games.  I have nerve issues and it causes me less pain.

Mostly though, just because whenever I have a choice between buying a single player game that's available for either PC or PS3, I always by the PS3 version.

I would imagine that there is a small percentage of people who purchased the console version who are somewhat like me.  They'd rather play a single player game on their console.

  Fearum

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1089

6/05/12 4:14:55 PM#107
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Lucioon

 

Skyrim units sold in the first 48 hours 3.5 million
Skyrim units sold in the first week release 7 million
Skyrim sales in the first week of release $450 million
Total Skyrim units sold 10 million
Total Skyrim sales $620 million
Average user review rating 92 / 100
Highest number of concurrent players on Steam 280,000 
XBox 360 59 %
Playstation 3 27 %
PC 14 % 
 
 
These are just general statistics taken from http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/
If ZeniMax focused on TES Players, then there is already an established 10 million players that they can count on, yet they are focusing on the Unknown Players that might or might not play MMO, and Might and Might not replace WOW with TESO
 
Is it because the PC numbers are lower than the Console number that they decided to go after the Unknown Players While giving up the potential Follow ups from Skyrim.
 
I am not an Business Student so if someone can shred some lights on their strategy, that might just clear some stuff up.
 
 

 He did call skyrim a console game.

But what he, and maybe a lot of other people don't get though, just because a lot of people purchased it for a console doesn't mean that they did so because they don't play PC games.

I got the PS3 version.  I didn't get it for the PC because I wanted to play with a controller, and since it's a single player game I didn't see any need to have to fuss with my keyboard and mouse while playing a single player game.   It was just easier to get it for the PS3 then to worry about whether or not my PC could handle it or whether or not my PC controller would work well enough.  And frankly, I prefer the controller over the mouse and keyboard for FPS style games.  I have nerve issues and it causes me less pain.

Mostly though, just because whenever I have a choice between buying a single player game that's available for either PC or PS3, I always by the PS3 version.

I would imagine that there is a small percentage of people who purchased the console version who are somewhat like me.  They'd rather play a single player game on their console.

Thats because TES games are geared for console. I got skyrim for PC because I built a computer for skyrim, Rift and BF3. I was disappointed in skyrim on my PC and wish I got it for PS3 as it looks the same and just feels like it needs a controller.

 

  Eladi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/23/06
Posts: 1051

6/05/12 4:20:17 PM#108

Thats because TES games are geared for console. I got skyrim for PC because I built a computer for skyrim, Rift and BF3. I was disappointed in skyrim on my PC and wish I got it for PS3 as it looks the same and just feels like it needs a controller.

 

the big diference is that the PS is a years old console that cant deliver the same preformance as a modern pc, while the game might shipped whit the samelow tetures and models the mod comunity made sutch improvements to every aspect of the game that even a modern rig has trouble running the awesomeness that is skyrim enhanced whit mods. there is nearly no game out there that has better grapics then the PC version of skyrim(incl 20gb of mods :P )

  elvenwolf

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 136

6/05/12 5:07:19 PM#109

As someone have stated,  i honestly think they are not addressing the fans of the single player game.

They are doing an MMO because  lot's of MMOs make money, they had already an in house IP that was well know, so why invent something else when they can do their MMO , maybe some TES fan in that 10 millions will be curious enough to buy it, for them is a win win situation anyway.

The Single player lovers will buy anyway the next TES, for the MMO lovers that could not care about TES but want a three way PvP  here is a new game to play.

They will gain from the next TES series from the single player, and they will gain from the MMO side.

I don't think tey could care less about the TES single player fans, they will built their own fan base for their MMO . after all,  you don't need millions to play your MMO to have a profit, if they can keep enough  subscribers to have a profit  they will care even less about TES fans.

 

The loss would be if angered by the TES Online the single player fans refuse to buy the next  one in the TES series, there would be a huge loss, but honestly i don't think it will ever happen.

So, any way they go, thye win and make money.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5120/7210363296_8357bee9de.jpg

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5225

6/06/12 8:23:14 AM#110
Originally posted by elvenwolf

As someone have stated,  i honestly think they are not addressing the fans of the single player game.

They are doing an MMO because  lot's of MMOs make money, they had already an in house IP that was well know, so why invent something else when they can do their MMO , maybe some TES fan in that 10 millions will be curious enough to buy it, for them is a win win situation anyway.

The Single player lovers will buy anyway the next TES, for the MMO lovers that could not care about TES but want a three way PvP  here is a new game to play.

They will gain from the next TES series from the single player, and they will gain from the MMO side.

I don't think tey could care less about the TES single player fans, they will built their own fan base for their MMO . after all,  you don't need millions to play your MMO to have a profit, if they can keep enough  subscribers to have a profit  they will care even less about TES fans.

 

The loss would be if angered by the TES Online the single player fans refuse to buy the next  one in the TES series, there would be a huge loss, but honestly i don't think it will ever happen.

So, any way they go, thye win and make money.

1. people do not select a single player game becuase its a single player game. People play a single player game because the game itself has a feature, story or game play they find intresting. Other players being in the game is immaterial. So with that said all one has to do is go down the list of feature by feature and ask 'is it possible in an MMO' for MOST the answer is yes.

2. TES single player game is most likely one of the most successful series around. The player base is rather large. There is no risk in knowing that players like TES. So divert to number 1. find the features that are possible and do it. Zenimax claims that housing is not possible 'as players like it' (whatever that means) execpt that many MMO have housing, FPS combat is not possible and yet there are a few indie MMO's that do FPS combat very well. Clearly if I move an object around in an MMO that could be a problem but because I cant move many objects around doesnt mean that is why I have to go to a forced 3rd view with no housing and a class system

Correlation does not imply causation

  elvenwolf

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 136

6/06/12 11:08:26 PM#111

Honestly my point is.. very simple.

Anyway , they already have people buying the single player game, features, world, whatever, people buy it.

If you look at their MMO what seem to offer is Daoc Style PvP, and to a point non tab targetted combat among other features.

So the point is mostly, they seem to be addressing some of the points that part of the MMO crowd seem to want in an MMO.

So if they do that right, there is a good chance they'll have a customer base of MMOers, and they'll have their share of the MMO market, if is large enough to pull profit, they have a win.

 

So, if that turn right, they continue to sell the single player game anyway, and they gain a share of the MMO pie.

 

That was my point, they gain money anyway , why risk it all when you can put togheter something "safe" that might anyway sell enough to pull profit.

 

I agree with it? Hells sure i would have preferred Skyrim online, one of the biggest nerdgasm of my life only thinking about  it, but the point is, doing what they do right now, they anyway gain money from the TES series single player, and there is a good chance they'll gain money from the MMO crowd seieng their formula is a classic one and seem to address something MMO players want.

I can say untill i am blue in the face that TES is that or  TES is this, and that Themepark 3d person suck this or that.. Point remain that if games continue to remain up, means they gain money, no game producer is in the business just for charity, if they don't gain money they pull it. So far MMOs still sell, this is Zenimax  trying to get a share of the market.

MMO Market, they already have the money of the TES fans.

 

Is innovative? Is skyrim online? is Darkfall redux? No, but i am sure they'll get what they want, a profit form the MMO market with their product.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5120/7210363296_8357bee9de.jpg

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

6/07/12 7:17:25 PM#112

Probably the best way to describe SW:TOR is "conventional."  The game didn't innovate on anything actually gameplay related, or take any risks.  We see how that is working out.  The devs admit that the things they spent all this time designing to implement with the game can't be done right now because there isn't the population to do them.  People saw this big name property with all this money behind it, and rejected a boring conventional MMO.  When I played TOR, I didn't neccessarily find it awful.  I found it boring.

With TESO, everyone, fan or foe, seems to agree on one thing.  This game is taking absolutely no risks anywhere, no innovations anywhere, etc.  Why will this time be any different?

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

6/07/12 7:21:55 PM#113
Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

When Skyrim came out there was a lot of talk about it on MMORPG, gamers were saying that Bathesda made a single player game that out MMO'd the MMO's that are currently out.

The consensus was, if they could take Skyrim (Or at least what was good about it) and make an MMO out of it, it would be a great MMO. Better than the stagnant games that are prevalent throughout the MMO-verse.

Now Zinimax is saying, We are not making a Skyrim MMO, we are going to make The Elder Scrolls Online, like the MMO's that currently out there. 

 

After the anger dies down, there is going to be a lot of head scratching, Why did ZiniMax take a game that people wanted to be made into an MMO, why did they take a game people were pointing to as, "That's how it is done" then take away what was good about the game and announce, we are going to make a generic MMO and we aren't going to apologizing about it.

 

 

Because they started working on it so long ago.  Same issue TOR had.  Times change and people are tired of that model but it's too late to change anything now.

It honestly sounds like the idea was hatched before Oblivion really broke the mold for the series in terms of expectations and sales to a massive audience.

 

Morrowind was great, but it wasn't a wide appeal.  Oblivion demonstrated you could keep most of what made Morrowind great, and it can appeal to a wider audience.  Skyrim just perfected that approach.

So they hatch a plan for an MMO that really doesn't take into account what they learned in Oblivion and Skyrim.  Terrific.

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1506

6/07/12 7:26:27 PM#114
Originally posted by iceman00
Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

When Skyrim came out there was a lot of talk about it on MMORPG, gamers were saying that Bathesda made a single player game that out MMO'd the MMO's that are currently out.

The consensus was, if they could take Skyrim (Or at least what was good about it) and make an MMO out of it, it would be a great MMO. Better than the stagnant games that are prevalent throughout the MMO-verse.

Now Zinimax is saying, We are not making a Skyrim MMO, we are going to make The Elder Scrolls Online, like the MMO's that currently out there. 

 

After the anger dies down, there is going to be a lot of head scratching, Why did ZiniMax take a game that people wanted to be made into an MMO, why did they take a game people were pointing to as, "That's how it is done" then take away what was good about the game and announce, we are going to make a generic MMO and we aren't going to apologizing about it.

 

 

Because they started working on it so long ago.  Same issue TOR had.  Times change and people are tired of that model but it's too late to change anything now.

It honestly sounds like the idea was hatched before Oblivion really broke the mold for the series in terms of expectations and sales to a massive audience.

 

Morrowind was great, but it wasn't a wide appeal.  Oblivion demonstrated you could keep most of what made Morrowind great, and it can appeal to a wider audience.  Skyrim just perfected that approach.

So they hatch a plan for an MMO that really doesn't take into account what they learned in Oblivion and Skyrim.  Terrific.

Again, they're not targeting the same audience, that morrowind, or oblivion were targeting. They can continue to do that with single player ES titles.  Zenimax however, is targeting a much larger audience, and frankly will end up bringing in players from the audience that you are referring to in your comment as well.

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Gundric

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 342

If lovin games is wrong, I don't wanna be right

6/07/12 7:31:06 PM#115

With this title I will definitely take the SWTOR approach I had and that worked out pretty well for me in the long run. I'll wait a few months after the game comes out and see what everyone says about it.  I'm  glad I waited out SWTOR.  Sadly this doesn't look like the Elder Scrolls game that I and everyone else has dreamed of being made one day.  Trying to reserve judgement before I write it off but it's getting harder every with every game pic and vid I see. Luckilly there are plenty of games on the near horizon coming out to take up my time (borderlands 2 is gonna be fun and I'm going to start up on the Assassins Creed series just because I think AC3 looks so cool).

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

6/07/12 7:32:24 PM#116
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

'We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim'

 

That was hysterical what a bunch of card carry class A morons. They really need to log into Darkfall for a weekend the stupid a$$es

 

yes im sure zenimaxs developers went "hmmm darkfall thats a roaring success that is, we should go copy that"

 

LOLITY FRIKIN LOL

Not a single reason whatsoever does the feature list that they are 'unpologetic' about have anything at all even remotely close to do with why people dont like Darkfall and anyone who has played Darkfall game for more than 10 mins knows for a fact as much as the sun is in the sky that Zenimax is full of sh*t. Almost every single feature they say cant be done or how amazing it is that they are doing it is already in Darkfall and functioning perfectly.

Reason people dont like darkfall is they dont like having their A$$ handed to them PEROID.

 

Sorta OT, but I wonder if the reason Darkfall has such a horrible rep is how the game started out.  Even the devs will admit they got off on a horrible foot.

  monarc333

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/07
Posts: 603

Gizmofusion.com

Screenrag.com

Steamfirst.com

6/07/12 7:34:19 PM#117
I love, LOVE, all the ES games, especially Morrowind. But every time I see or read something about this game I just get more and more disappointed. This game screams generic. I know we have some time till it comes out so hopefully it will improve. Just can't help thinking meh, when I see it. Just a big fat MEH. So sad.
  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

6/07/12 7:49:44 PM#118
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

In the US its still lawful to invest your money the way you see fit.Game companys can make games the way they want and be rewarded or punished depending what consumers determine.

GEESH

 

Do you call car companys because almost ever years modles look like the previous years ?

New toilet paper brands..there white and on rolls....shall we start to ruminate about  that too !

 

In the US we have free enterprise.Take a breath and lets see what kind of game they make...then vote.

 Now there's an awesome analogy!  Perhaps the government can issue a bailout for the MMO industry because it refuses to inovate and progress the genre instead of making the exact same thing over and over.

Didn't that basically happen in Rhode Island?

 

Too soon???

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

6/07/12 7:52:53 PM#119
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by iceman00
Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

When Skyrim came out there was a lot of talk about it on MMORPG, gamers were saying that Bathesda made a single player game that out MMO'd the MMO's that are currently out.

The consensus was, if they could take Skyrim (Or at least what was good about it) and make an MMO out of it, it would be a great MMO. Better than the stagnant games that are prevalent throughout the MMO-verse.

Now Zinimax is saying, We are not making a Skyrim MMO, we are going to make The Elder Scrolls Online, like the MMO's that currently out there. 

 

After the anger dies down, there is going to be a lot of head scratching, Why did ZiniMax take a game that people wanted to be made into an MMO, why did they take a game people were pointing to as, "That's how it is done" then take away what was good about the game and announce, we are going to make a generic MMO and we aren't going to apologizing about it.

 

 

Because they started working on it so long ago.  Same issue TOR had.  Times change and people are tired of that model but it's too late to change anything now.

It honestly sounds like the idea was hatched before Oblivion really broke the mold for the series in terms of expectations and sales to a massive audience.

 

Morrowind was great, but it wasn't a wide appeal.  Oblivion demonstrated you could keep most of what made Morrowind great, and it can appeal to a wider audience.  Skyrim just perfected that approach.

So they hatch a plan for an MMO that really doesn't take into account what they learned in Oblivion and Skyrim.  Terrific.

Again, they're not targeting the same audience, that morrowind, or oblivion were targeting. They can continue to do that with single player ES titles.  Zenimax however, is targeting a much larger audience, and frankly will end up bringing in players from the audience that you are referring to in your comment as well.

So an audience that is over 12 million strong, at least half of who would die to play a Skyrim based game with Elder Scrolls Lore online, isn't a "large" audience?

Let's face it.  The Trinity based MMO crowd, while highly touted, is not actually as big an audience as they might think.  WoW was an abberation, and a perfect storm of gaming.  Even getting 3 million dedicated customers to a game would be a substantial profit.

Stop trying to chase that which cannot be replicated.

I guess I question "why the hell aren't you targeting this audience?"

  TGSOL

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/11
Posts: 279

6/07/12 7:58:46 PM#120

"This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim. We're making the MMO version of the Elder Scrolls, and with that comes some conventions that are different from a console RPG."

 

That really defines the problem with so many MMO developers. They just assume that WoW-esque mechanics are inherently what an MMO is. "This isn't a first-person action-combat RPG; it's an MMO!" he says, as if the two contradict each other and "third person, action-bar based combat" is an inherent part of the definition of MMORPG.

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