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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » ZeniMax 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

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130 posts found
  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5181

6/04/12 12:59:40 PM#61
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Originally posted by SEANMCAD 'We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim'   That was hysterical what a bunch of card carry class A morons. They really need to log into Darkfall for a weekend the stupid a$$es  
yes im sure zenimaxs developers went "hmmm darkfall thats a roaring success that is, we should go copy that"   LOLITY FRIKIN LOL
Not a single reason whatsoever does the feature list that they are 'unpologetic' about have anything at all even remotely close to do with why people dont like Darkfall and anyone who has played Darkfall game for more than 10 mins knows for a fact as much as the sun is in the sky that Zenimax is full of sh*t. Almost every single feature they say cant be done or how amazing it is that they are doing it is already in Darkfall and functioning perfectly.

 

Reason people dont like darkfall is they dont like having their A$$ handed to them PEROID.

 




Some people find the game boring. Waiting a couple weeks while your poor little avatar grinds away on trees or other inanimate stuff is pretty boring.

 

none of that matters. Anyone with a measureable IQ should be able to understand that when one developer says 'FPS is not possible in an MMO' that when another person refers Darkfall as a MMO with working FPS combat that the conversation is not about harvesting f8cking NODES!!!!!!!!!

 

really?

Correlation does not imply causation

  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

6/04/12 1:04:40 PM#62

Well, I think noone expected them to say sorry about developing a game. Rite, u gusy?

I just hope they took the community back lash to heart and will try to sneak in a few bags of sand during development.

If they end up just trying to cash in on their IP with a trashy generic dumbed down themepark I'll throw myself off the longest rage thread.

 

 

 

 

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1118

6/04/12 1:06:54 PM#63
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Yeah, this isn't news to me. The individual I know working for development on TES has been pretty unapologetic every time we've spoken about the project. I've posted more details regarding what I've heard from this person, and if you're interested you can find that post here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024735#5024735

Well, here's one way to think about it:

Given what you said about expanding the universe it seems that they aren't interested in making "Skyrim Online" or "Morrowind Online" but instead want to reach out to themepark mmo players and offer a version of Elderscrolls specifically for their demographic.

Which actually makes sense.

They aren't saying "hey, there are all these Elderscrolls fans, let's make them an online game". They are saying "hey, there are all these mmo players, lets' bring them the Elderscrolls lore in a medium they are comfortable with.

 

More like "Hey. There are all these MMO players that buy ANY standard Themepark that comes out. If its a well known IP, cha-ching. With a Collectors Edition, CHA-CHING. Lets make an Elder Scrolls one."

 

 

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  mmaize

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/09
Posts: 275

6/04/12 1:13:42 PM#64
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Yeah, this isn't news to me. The individual I know working for development on TES has been pretty unapologetic every time we've spoken about the project. I've posted more details regarding what I've heard from this person, and if you're interested you can find that post here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024735#5024735

Well, here's one way to think about it:

Given what you said about expanding the universe it seems that they aren't interested in making "Skyrim Online" or "Morrowind Online" but instead want to reach out to themepark mmo players and offer a version of Elderscrolls specifically for their demographic.

Which actually makes sense.

They aren't saying "hey, there are all these Elderscrolls fans, let's make them an online game". They are saying "hey, there are all these mmo players, lets' bring them the Elderscrolls lore in a medium they are comfortable with.

 

More like "Hey. There are all these MMO players that buy ANY standard Themepark that comes out. If its a well known IP, cha-ching. With a Collectors Edition, CHA-CHING. Lets make an Elder Scrolls one."

 

 

 

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5181

6/04/12 1:14:54 PM#65
Originally posted by DarkPony

Well, I think noone expected them to say sorry about developing a game. Rite, u gusy?

I just hope they took the community back lash to heart and will try to sneak in a few bags of sand during development.

If they end up just trying to cash in on their IP with a trashy generic dumbed down themepark I'll throw myself off the longest rage thread.

 

 

 

 

The problem I am having is less that about what they are not doing development wise my issue is the attitude. If someone feels they can not make a game like Darkfall or that there are some limitations to Darkfall in a given context then fine, man up and say what they are. Dont pretend like the game doesnt exist and hasnt already done what they are saying cant be done.

They are class A f8ck ups

Correlation does not imply causation

  Rophez

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/06
Posts: 46

6/04/12 1:28:42 PM#66
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
The problem I am having is less that about what they are not doing development wise my issue is the attitude. If someone feels they can not make a game like Darkfall or that there are some limitations to Darkfall in a given context then fine, man up and say what they are. Dont pretend like the game doesnt exist and hasnt already done what they are saying cant be done.

They are class A f8ck ups

Two things:

1 - No one has tried the combat in TESO yet.  It may actually be really fun and have some seriously revolutionary play.  Maybe not, but it might.

2 - Has Darkfall Online successfully had 200+ players in combat with no lag that interferes with their non-tab target combat?  I seriously don't know.  Do they have massive scale combat like that?

  sirphobos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 601

6/04/12 1:32:09 PM#67

At the rate the mmorpg.com hatred of new games is progressing, pretty soon people on this forum will be hating games before they are even announced.

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

6/04/12 1:36:56 PM#68
Originally posted by Rophez

Two things:

1 - No one has tried the combat in TESO yet.  It may actually be really fun and have some seriously revolutionary play.  Maybe not, but it might.

2 - Has Darkfall Online successfully had 200+ players in combat with no lag that interferes with their non-tab target combat?  I seriously don't know.  Do they have massive scale combat like that?

Quick question.

1. What is TESO doing different that no one has tried?

 

2. Not sure about Darkfall, but I'd reference Planetside as being pretty successful on that front.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17123

6/04/12 1:36:57 PM#69
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Yeah, this isn't news to me. The individual I know working for development on TES has been pretty unapologetic every time we've spoken about the project. I've posted more details regarding what I've heard from this person, and if you're interested you can find that post here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024735#5024735

Well, here's one way to think about it:

Given what you said about expanding the universe it seems that they aren't interested in making "Skyrim Online" or "Morrowind Online" but instead want to reach out to themepark mmo players and offer a version of Elderscrolls specifically for their demographic.

Which actually makes sense.

They aren't saying "hey, there are all these Elderscrolls fans, let's make them an online game". They are saying "hey, there are all these mmo players, lets' bring them the Elderscrolls lore in a medium they are comfortable with.

 

It would make sense, would it not for the fact that so many MMO devs tried the same and failed, to some degree. WAR, STO, AoC, LotrO  and SW:TOR all took an existing IP and tried to turn it into some kind of themepark so that in the end it looked more like WoW than the IPs they were built on.

Maybe the "problem" is that they made some money, even though the games, except maybe LotrO, are largely considered failures. And this I suspect is all that they care about, profits with low risk. Because lets face it, ThemeParks works. Are they innovative, complex and interesting? Nope, but they sell some copies, enough apparently to put these games into the black.

Yeah but you also have to remember that part of the problem for each of those, sans LOTRO, is that they had issues at launch.

STO was buggy and admitedly flew in the face of what a Star Trek fan might want. But there is a difference between a Star Trek fan and an mmo player who likes Star Trek.

Warhammer had many bugs at launch and the open world pvp, which started off well enough, started to flounder when the competing system, the battlegrounds, offered quick pvp action and decent rewards. Additionly the pve experiene was horrendous. Stupid mobs and a linear map that not only funneled you into quest zones but funnelled you to the next linear map.

AoC? Many bugs and the 1-20 experience was drastically different than the rest of the game. Not only that but there were gaps in content that left players with the problem of what to do in certain level ranges.

The only problem with SWToR is that since it is a linear game there is not much to do but to start an alt and do it again. Problem is that the leveling experience, story aside, is exactly the same. Go through the game once and there are people to level with.

Second? Third times? Players have done it and suddenly areas are light in population. And I'll add that the pvp zone was apparently poorly realized with many bugs.

None of these issues have anything to do with the whole standard "wow" themepark issue. If anything, these games show that people have no problems with the WoW theme park model but do have problems when the games are not as polished or have as much content as WoW currently has.

LOTRO is a different bird. Remember, it started under a different developer and some of the content at launch is clearly attributed to that developer. Especially the areas north and east of Bree which are beautiful and open areas "just because". The rest of the game incorporates more planned areas and is a bit light on the exploration part.

  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

6/04/12 1:43:04 PM#70
Originally posted by sirphobos

At the rate the mmorpg.com hatred of new games is progressing, pretty soon people on this forum will be hating games before they are even announced.

The mere idea of an unnanounced mmorpg staying clear of my rage JUST BECAUSE I AM NOT AWARE OF ITS EXISTENCE makes me MAD AS HELL I shall preemptively bash them right now;

If there will ever be a game called Herpmagurphia Derpland (or any other title) ... it will be a terrible game and probably the biggest fail since Operation Barbarossa and they WON'T get MY money as I am preemptively VOTING WITH MY WALNUT!

 

 

 

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1869

6/04/12 1:44:36 PM#71

In the US its still lawful to invest your money the way you see fit.Game companys can make games the way they want and be rewarded or punished depending what consumers determine.

GEESH

 

Do you call car companys because almost ever years modles look like the previous years ?

New toilet paper brands..there white and on rolls....shall we start to ruminate about  that too !

 

In the US we have free enterprise.Take a breath and lets see what kind of game they make...then vote.

  User Deleted
6/04/12 1:46:20 PM#72

Can someone explain something to me?

Beyond the skill based, FPS view , art style and housing, what would a Skyrim mmorpg have that a generic mmo doesn't? Housing may still be added later, even before launch or after.If they try to stick a single player game into an mmo, they're going to backfire.

Reference-------------------------Bioware, SWTOR

  Fearum

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1089

6/04/12 1:49:52 PM#73

I could care less about barbie dream house being in the game. I perfer 3rd person view for mmorpg's. Art stlye I hope is not anime kiddie wonderland. 

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

6/04/12 1:57:57 PM#74
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Can someone explain something to me?

Beyond the skill based, FPS view , art style and housing, what would a Skyrim mmorpg have that a generic mmo doesn't? Housing may still be added later, even before launch or after.If they try to stick a single player game into an mmo, they're going to backfire.

Reference-------------------------Bioware, SWTOR

 

That wasn't really the problem with SWTOR if you don't recall what the people are (still) ranting about with that game.

 

Essentially the failure with thtat is people call it WoW in space and many of it's supporting features either went missing, weren't complete, or were broke in some way. Even as it's been getting cleaned up, it's core gameplay and extra features somewhat still damn it's novel aspects.

 

Things people hated about SWTOR are similar in a sense to things they hate about where tESO is headed.

 

Like for example player progression. KOTOR might have had overarching classes, but you could still progress in most any skill with a great degree of freedom and customization. Same with Elder Scrolls games, you coudl pick an overarching build, but it was not a locked in class concept and you could progress as you saw fit to make a personally tailored character.

 

It is very much about what they sacrificed of the game to make it more 'MMO' that people complain about. Things they see as not having been necessary sacrifices that fundamentally change how the game plays and feels.

 

Even in the case of first and third person. I played the elder scrolls games largely in first, but fact is that's not the driving concern for me as much as how the combat feels regardless of camera view. When my control over the movement of the character is taken away and replaced with predefined options, and my personal capacity replaced by tab targeting, then I am not playing the same kind of game and it feels dramatically different. It no longer plays like the games I enjoy or that it is modeled off of.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5181

6/04/12 1:58:26 PM#75
Originally posted by Rophez
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
The problem I am having is less that about what they are not doing development wise my issue is the attitude. If someone feels they can not make a game like Darkfall or that there are some limitations to Darkfall in a given context then fine, man up and say what they are. Dont pretend like the game doesnt exist and hasnt already done what they are saying cant be done.

They are class A f8ck ups

2 - Has Darkfall Online successfully had 200+ players in combat with no lag that interferes with their non-tab target combat?  I seriously don't know.  Do they have massive scale combat like that?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Correlation does not imply causation

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 945

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

6/04/12 1:59:35 PM#76
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Yeah, this isn't news to me. The individual I know working for development on TES has been pretty unapologetic every time we've spoken about the project. I've posted more details regarding what I've heard from this person, and if you're interested you can find that post here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024735#5024735

Well, here's one way to think about it:

Given what you said about expanding the universe it seems that they aren't interested in making "Skyrim Online" or "Morrowind Online" but instead want to reach out to themepark mmo players and offer a version of Elderscrolls specifically for their demographic.

Which actually makes sense.

They aren't saying "hey, there are all these Elderscrolls fans, let's make them an online game". They are saying "hey, there are all these mmo players, lets' bring them the Elderscrolls lore in a medium they are comfortable with.

Yeah, but the SRPG fans have been saying since Morrowind, "man, wouldn't it be fucking awesome if this game had a multiplayer function!" Who gives a shit about the themepark audience? OH WAIT! Production and development companies do, because they know these mouth breathers spend money on every piece of garbage that gets shoved out the god damn door! So, sure, alienate the customers who've stuck with your product, who've been dreaming of an enhanced version of the single player games, so you can make a quick buck. Good work.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5181

6/04/12 2:09:51 PM#77
Originally posted by Lawlmonster
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Yeah, this isn't news to me. The individual I know working for development on TES has been pretty unapologetic every time we've spoken about the project. I've posted more details regarding what I've heard from this person, and if you're interested you can find that post here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024735#5024735

Well, here's one way to think about it:

Given what you said about expanding the universe it seems that they aren't interested in making "Skyrim Online" or "Morrowind Online" but instead want to reach out to themepark mmo players and offer a version of Elderscrolls specifically for their demographic.

Which actually makes sense.

They aren't saying "hey, there are all these Elderscrolls fans, let's make them an online game". They are saying "hey, there are all these mmo players, lets' bring them the Elderscrolls lore in a medium they are comfortable with.

Yeah, but the SRPG fans have been saying since Morrowind, "man, wouldn't it be fucking awesome if this game had a multiplayer function!" Who gives a shit about the themepark audience? OH WAIT! Production and development companies do, because they know these mouth breathers spend money on every piece of garbage that gets shoved out the god damn door! So, sure, alienate the customers who've stuck with your product, who've been dreaming of an enhanced version of the single player games, so you can make a quick buck. Good work.

I know I can sound like an advertisement and I assure everyone I am not, its just my specific game experience so here goes again.

I recall with great detail logging into Darkfall for the first time and the very first thought was 'OMG this is what Morrowind Online could have been'

Correlation does not imply causation

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 945

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

6/04/12 2:30:42 PM#78
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Lawlmonster
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Yeah, this isn't news to me. The individual I know working for development on TES has been pretty unapologetic every time we've spoken about the project. I've posted more details regarding what I've heard from this person, and if you're interested you can find that post here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024735#5024735

Well, here's one way to think about it:

Given what you said about expanding the universe it seems that they aren't interested in making "Skyrim Online" or "Morrowind Online" but instead want to reach out to themepark mmo players and offer a version of Elderscrolls specifically for their demographic.

Which actually makes sense.

They aren't saying "hey, there are all these Elderscrolls fans, let's make them an online game". They are saying "hey, there are all these mmo players, lets' bring them the Elderscrolls lore in a medium they are comfortable with.

Yeah, but the SRPG fans have been saying since Morrowind, "man, wouldn't it be fucking awesome if this game had a multiplayer function!" Who gives a shit about the themepark audience? OH WAIT! Production and development companies do, because they know these mouth breathers spend money on every piece of garbage that gets shoved out the god damn door! So, sure, alienate the customers who've stuck with your product, who've been dreaming of an enhanced version of the single player games, so you can make a quick buck. Good work.

I know I can sound like an advertisement and I assure everyone I am not, its just my specific game experience so here goes again.

I recall with great detail logging into Darkfall for the first time and the very first thought was 'OMG this is what Morrowind Online could have been'

I like Darkfall and played it for quite some time, but never found a community or guild that I fit very well within. It's a testament to FPS being a viable platform for MMO combat and interaction, so when I see comments made by a particular development team that it isn't possible, I just shake my head.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1652

6/04/12 2:36:33 PM#79
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Destai

They can be unapologetic all they want. That doesn't guarantee their game will sell. And if the condition of a major IP title like SWTOR is any warning, they'd be well advised to reconsider some ideas. I don't think we know enough about their game to completely dismiss it, but they cannot develop a game without regard to the consumer's tastes. They have multiple audiences to appease and cannot automatically assume that every gamer will jump with glee at their announcements. 

They obviously have a target audience in mind.  I don't see them saying in any way or form that everyone should be happy with what they intend for the game.  Every MMO that that has or will release have their primary player base in mind.  It's the general gaming public that seem to think every game that releases should be targeted specifically at them.

 Pretty unfair to say that, when you're making a game that already has millions of followers, and then you make an MMO version that is aimed at a completely different fanbase.

"The general gaming community" isn't upset over what they're doing with the game.  The ES community is upset.  He can feel that he doesn't need to apologize to anyone, and he can make all the snide remarks he wants about being able to go play the "console RPG", as if that alone isn't a slap in the face to the fans of the game. 

In the end, the first thing they said is that they were making an ES mmo for fans of the ES games, now they're saying they aren't going to apologize for not making an ES mmo for ES fans.  Some of you may disagree with my paraphrasing of his apology, but when he specifically mentions being able to go play Skyrim, it's very clear that he's refering to the masses of ES fans that are upset.

Exactly how many developers have you ever seen state they won't apologize for making an MMO?  Did bioware say they wouldn't apologize?  Did mythic say they wouldn't apologize?  Did cryptic say they wouldn't apologize?  Pretty interesting that the guys making ESO had a need to state they wouldn't apologize.  I'm sorry, but that shows a blatant disregard for the fans of the IP, because they clearly see that they're alienating them with this game!

  Boraell

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 83

6/04/12 2:46:48 PM#80

I find it very amusing that because they say "its an MMO, it wont be like skyrim" all the haters somehow read that as them saying it will be a WoW clone, despite no mention of WoW anywhere... theres probably something freudian in there somewhere:P

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