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General Discussion  » ZeniMax 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

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130 posts found
  Amsai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/11
Posts: 69

6/02/12 12:51:01 AM#41

Thanks for the information, I am unfamiliar with DAOC. Sounds like maybe I should read up on it to understand better where they are coming from. Thanks again.

  Fearum

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1089

6/02/12 12:57:55 AM#42

Haha thats awesome. I wish he would of said "ITS NOT SKYRIM, ITS NOT HAVING BORING GAMEPLAY LIKE THE SINGLE PLAYER GAMES SO STFU ALREADY."

Atleast they are making this for the PC and not caving in like the last 2 games of the series to consoles.

  Gurpslord

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/22/09
Posts: 372

You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed.

6/02/12 12:59:39 AM#43

A few other points to consider here..(Even from my wary and admittedly negative standpoint on this title)

1: To those that say TES games as we know them couldn't be made into decent MMOs, I say you're wrong.  We already had something pretty close years back, it was called Star Wars Galaxies.  Say what you will about that game, but it had massive territory to explore, a world you didn't just play in but lived in, no hand holding.  You could go and do what you cared to do without it detracting from some leveling curve.  It had housing, a crafting game that was deep and meaningful which led to an economy that was deep and meaningful.  YES there were..lets call 'em issues and be nice about it, however a lot of that stuff is what people would claim an Elder Scrolls MMO could bring to the table..and yet here we are with this "Standard, MMOified package"

2: To those saying this dooms the Elder Scrolls games, the ones that are single player and awesome.  I say you're wrong.  Zenimax may pay bethesda's checks, but the people at bethesda have already said flat out that they're working on Skyrim related things and aren't involved on any level with this MMO.  The team of people you love so much for their single player games are still hard at work on those single player games.  Do not fear.

3: As a community we may be a bit unfair, especially right now.  We're right off the steady disapointment of more than a handful of games, one or two that had some serious bluster behind them only to let us down.  We're extra skeptical now and don't want to see someone say, We have more of the same for ya!  Especially when they're trying to make it sound like it's what we want when we clearly..CLEARLY do not.  We, however, are likely jumping the gun and interpreting things in an extra cynical fashion.  Some say wait and see, I'm okay with that.  I'm going to be doubtful and vocally so just like many others, however I'm willing to be impressed should it happen.

(Please gawds don't start on about SWG in this thread, it's all been done before.  We all have our horror stories, just take the comments for how they're meant to be taken and don't hijack the thread and turn it into a SWG war, those are still currently going on over at the SWG forums if you're looking for that)

  Blakkrskyrr

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/19/08
Posts: 233

He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

6/02/12 1:01:58 AM#44
Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor

ZeniMax devs 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/01/zenimax-devs-unapologetic-about-making-elder-scrolls-mmo/

 

"ZeniMax Online recently called in to the Game Informer podcast to talk up its Elder Scrolls Online title. Game director Matt Firor and creative director Paul Sage were the devs of record, and the 30-minute chat featured some interesting tidbits.

Firor mentions that the game will release simultaneously on PC and Mac, but ZeniMax has no plans for a console version. Sage talked a bit about the progression system, which, while level-based, does feature skill-based advancement as well. In the current build, characters gain experience in skills that are slotted. Sage also mentions that you do get better with weapons as you wield them, though the gain is not 100 percent usage-based.

There's also a bit of discussion about art style, camera modes, and the decision to MMOify the Elder Scrolls IP. "We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim. We're making the MMO version of the Elder Scrolls, and with that comes some conventions that are different from a console RPG," Firor says."

 

Me: Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no yes no no no

No need to apologize! At least not yet...

I'm curious as to what Todd Howard says/thinks about this.  I remember hearing him say in an interview that they won't be doing an MMO for TES while he is with Bethesda, and then now I read or heard in an interview that ZMO is working closely with Todd on making the game to his liking and the TES lore.  I know that I will be following this game as information is being released, but I am not getting my hopes up.  There hasn't been any real eye openning information, and nothing being shown except screenshots, which are almost always shown in such a way to grab the audience.  I'd like ot see some gameplay videos with the mechanics detailed out, and whatever may be "innovative" as they deem it.  Unlike GW2, which I had started getting my hopes up for after actually seeing videos and reading a lot of stuff, I won't be seeing anything anytime soon so I'm going to just sit back, crack a few beers here and there, play GW2, and see what happens with this.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5196

6/04/12 11:38:25 AM#45

'We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim'

 

That was hysterical what a bunch of card carry class A morons. They really need to log into Darkfall for a weekend the stupid a$$es

 

Correlation does not imply causation

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2538

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

6/04/12 11:41:07 AM#46

Why should they care about what we think? Gamers have proven repeatedly that they'll buy anything and everything.

Money talks, nothing else.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/04/12 11:42:26 AM#47

a bunch of sheeple on a bandwagon on the internet "its got a action bar and a mini map, its a wow clone burn the witch!"

zenimax guys - "up yours sheeple"

well done zenimax, get on with making a great game and ignore these "trendies" that are just getting on a misinformed bandwagon

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/04/12 11:43:33 AM#48
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

'We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim'

 

That was hysterical what a bunch of card carry class A morons. They really need to log into Darkfall for a weekend the stupid a$$es

 

yes im sure zenimaxs developers went "hmmm darkfall thats a roaring success that is, we should go copy that"

 

LOLITY FRIKIN LOL

  RoyalPhunk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 181

6/04/12 11:44:02 AM#49
Originally posted by Zekiah

Why should they care about what we think? Gamers have proven repeatedly that they'll buy anything and everything.

Money talks, nothing else.

True but we also have proved that we will abandon ship in the blink of an eye.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/04/12 11:47:22 AM#50
Originally posted by Amsai

 

Hmmm, anyone else notice how they side-stepped the "members of different factions being able to visit 'enemy' regions" question? I mean I had pretty much already figured on race-locked by faction, and they did say Cyrodiil would be the only open PvP area............So by the way the dude side-stepped the issue and started talking about how great and big each area was instead, makes me think that if I am from Daggerfall I cant go to Skyrim??? I mean they dont specifically state that, but then if not why so dodgy?

 

Depending on how they do PvP and what all it will effect will determine if I play this game or not. I could care less if it is Elder Scrolls-ish enough. So far I like "some" of the things they are saying.

 

Also I have been reading up on all the interviews and info on this game and I see a lot of people really hating on this game. For TES fans, I sorta see where they are coming from, but as a non-TES series player, it doesnt really effect me because I dont have any TES series expectations. If that makes sense? However, I do find it ridiculous at how many people are calling it a WoW clone. Now I haven't played the game obviously, but from what they are decribing it sounds mostly nothing like WoW. Sure there are a few things that sound familiar, but not nearly enough to call it a WoW clone. However, there are definately enough similar and same-ish ideas to call it a GW2 clone (if thats even possible due to that game not being out, and me not knowing which started dev first?). That being said, I am actually OK with that. Because I like what GW2 is doing, and my only problem with GW2 is it doesnt seem very deep (just my opinion) and I am a huge fan of role based classes (read: Holy Trinity). Perhaps TESO can take the good from GW2 and marry that with a bit more depth and role based classes.

And to all you TES fans: /comfort

@Tipster, yep reposting this cause it was totally in the wrong TES and posdcast related thread..... oops.


as far as im aware there is NO PVP in skyrim, so frankly they can pick any PVP model they like, its not breaking the single player games, because the single player games are single player they don't have PVP.  Although thank god they haven't gone for a WOW style grind tupperware boxes for tokens model.

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 945

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

6/04/12 11:48:20 AM#51

Yeah, this isn't news to me. The individual I know working for development on TES has been pretty unapologetic every time we've spoken about the project. I've posted more details regarding what I've heard from this person, and if you're interested you can find that post here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024735#5024735

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/04/12 11:50:18 AM#52
Originally posted by VowOfSilence
Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor

ZeniMax devs 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/01/zenimax-devs-unapologetic-about-making-elder-scrolls-mmo/

 

"ZeniMax Online recently called in to the Game Informer podcast to talk up its Elder Scrolls Online title. Game director Matt Firor and creative director Paul Sage were the devs of record, and the 30-minute chat featured some interesting tidbits.

Firor mentions that the game will release simultaneously on PC and Mac, but ZeniMax has no plans for a console version. Sage talked a bit about the progression system, which, while level-based, does feature skill-based advancement as well. In the current build, characters gain experience in skills that are slotted. Sage also mentions that you do get better with weapons as you wield them, though the gain is not 100 percent usage-based.

There's also a bit of discussion about art style, camera modes, and the decision to MMOify the Elder Scrolls IP. "We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim. We're making the MMO version of the Elder Scrolls, and with that comes some conventions that are different from a console RPG," Firor says."

 

Me: Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no yes no no no

No need to apologize! At least not yet...

When they say "MMOify", they mean "WoWify". I think that says it all.

This game will probably crash worse then SWTOR.

It wont be a WOW skinned to look like TES.  e.g. a SWTOR.

 

It might be a DACO / EQ skinned to look like TES though.  But it certainly won't be a WOW clone.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/04/12 11:53:48 AM#53
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

When Skyrim came out there was a lot of talk about it on MMORPG, gamers were saying that Bathesda made a single player game that out MMO'd the MMO's that are currently out.

The consensus was, if they could take Skyrim (Or at least what was good about it) and make an MMO out of it, it would be a great MMO. Better than the stagnant games that are prevalent throughout the MMO-verse.

Now Zinimax is saying, We are not making a Skyrim MMO, we are going to make The Elder Scrolls Online, like the MMO's that currently out there. 

 

After the anger dies down, there is going to be a lot of head scratching, Why did ZiniMax take a game that people wanted to be made into an MMO, why did they take a game people were pointing to as, "That's how it is done" then take away what was good about the game and announce, we are going to make a generic MMO and we aren't going to apologizing about it.

 

 

Because they started working on it so long ago.  Same issue TOR had.  Times change and people are tired of that model but it's too late to change anything now.

I guess my problem is, they say, "we are Making an MMO," as if MMO and WoW clone are synonimous. The Secret World and Guild Wars 2 were in development for a long time and they seemed to say, how can we make our MMO different. while, ZeniMax seems to have said, how can we make our game, the same.

I hate to steal a line from a seriously cheesy movie but Zenimax "Why are you trying so hard to fit in, when you so clearly stand out."

TES sounds like a BETTER GW2. 

Fully open world not  zoned to fuck

open dungeons

3 proper factions with proper content for each faction rather than using the COST CUTTING model of 3 servers from GW2 or everyone be chums together in PVE model of TSW.  also no super shit 2 week reset to keep the balance obsessive wow kiddies happy.

TES crafting instead of WOW crafting

 

 

  Rophez

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/06
Posts: 46

6/04/12 12:16:19 PM#54
Originally posted by ShakyMo

TES sounds like a BETTER GW2. 

Fully open world not  zoned to fuck

open dungeons

3 proper factions with proper content for each faction rather than using the COST CUTTING model of 3 servers from GW2 or everyone be chums together in PVE model of TSW.  also no super shit 2 week reset to keep the balance obsessive wow kiddies happy.

TES crafting instead of WOW crafting

Bingo.  A lot of people don't get the fact that GW2 doing the multi-server battles is really cutting corners and will actually decrease realm pride and the whole immersion aspect.  These factors will play a great role in how long someone will stick with a game.  GW2 is a great effort - they are at least trying some new things, but really I think TESO is going to be a more quality product.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5196

6/04/12 12:45:57 PM#55
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by SEANMCAD

'We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim'

 

That was hysterical what a bunch of card carry class A morons. They really need to log into Darkfall for a weekend the stupid a$$es

 

yes im sure zenimaxs developers went "hmmm darkfall thats a roaring success that is, we should go copy that"

 

LOLITY FRIKIN LOL

Not a single reason whatsoever does the feature list that they are 'unpologetic' about have anything at all even remotely close to do with why people dont like Darkfall and anyone who has played Darkfall game for more than 10 mins knows for a fact as much as the sun is in the sky that Zenimax is full of sh*t. Almost every single feature they say cant be done or how amazing it is that they are doing it is already in Darkfall and functioning perfectly.

Reason people dont like darkfall is they dont like having their A$$ handed to them PEROID.

 

Correlation does not imply causation

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10572

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

6/04/12 12:48:42 PM#56


Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Originally posted by SEANMCAD 'We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim, Skyrim already exists and you can go play Skyrim'   That was hysterical what a bunch of card carry class A morons. They really need to log into Darkfall for a weekend the stupid a$$es  
yes im sure zenimaxs developers went "hmmm darkfall thats a roaring success that is, we should go copy that"   LOLITY FRIKIN LOL
Not a single reason whatsoever does the feature list that they are 'unpologetic' about have anything at all even remotely close to do with why people dont like Darkfall and anyone who has played Darkfall game for more than 10 mins knows for a fact as much as the sun is in the sky that Zenimax is full of sh*t. Almost every single feature they say cant be done or how amazing it is that they are doing it is already in Darkfall and functioning perfectly.

Reason people dont like darkfall is they dont like having their A$$ handed to them PEROID.

 




Some people find the game boring. Waiting a couple weeks while your poor little avatar grinds away on trees or other inanimate stuff is pretty boring.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17127

6/04/12 12:52:30 PM#57
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Yeah, this isn't news to me. The individual I know working for development on TES has been pretty unapologetic every time we've spoken about the project. I've posted more details regarding what I've heard from this person, and if you're interested you can find that post here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024735#5024735

Well, here's one way to think about it:

Given what you said about expanding the universe it seems that they aren't interested in making "Skyrim Online" or "Morrowind Online" but instead want to reach out to themepark mmo players and offer a version of Elderscrolls specifically for their demographic.

Which actually makes sense.

They aren't saying "hey, there are all these Elderscrolls fans, let's make them an online game". They are saying "hey, there are all these mmo players, lets' bring them the Elderscrolls lore in a medium they are comfortable with.

 

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2388

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

6/04/12 12:52:32 PM#58

If this game can capture some of the, essence, for lack of a better word, of the PvP from Dark Age of Camelot, I might be sold...

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

6/04/12 12:52:41 PM#59
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

When Skyrim came out there was a lot of talk about it on MMORPG, gamers were saying that Bathesda made a single player game that out MMO'd the MMO's that are currently out.

The consensus was, if they could take Skyrim (Or at least what was good about it) and make an MMO out of it, it would be a great MMO. Better than the stagnant games that are prevalent throughout the MMO-verse.

Now Zinimax is saying, We are not making a Skyrim MMO, we are going to make The Elder Scrolls Online, like the MMO's that currently out there. 

 

After the anger dies down, there is going to be a lot of head scratching, Why did ZiniMax take a game that people wanted to be made into an MMO, why did they take a game people were pointing to as, "That's how it is done" then take away what was good about the game and announce, we are going to make a generic MMO and we aren't going to apologizing about it.

 

This is what baffles me as well. Alot of people are saying that Skyrim is the way MMORPGs should be like. So what do the devs do? Create an Elder Scrolls MMO which is NOT like Skyrim. That just doesn't make any damn sense!

Maybe it's just the fact tha MMO devs are so driven by (WoW) profit that they have gotten completely out of touch with the customer base.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

6/04/12 12:56:29 PM#60
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Yeah, this isn't news to me. The individual I know working for development on TES has been pretty unapologetic every time we've spoken about the project. I've posted more details regarding what I've heard from this person, and if you're interested you can find that post here:

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024735#5024735

Well, here's one way to think about it:

Given what you said about expanding the universe it seems that they aren't interested in making "Skyrim Online" or "Morrowind Online" but instead want to reach out to themepark mmo players and offer a version of Elderscrolls specifically for their demographic.

Which actually makes sense.

They aren't saying "hey, there are all these Elderscrolls fans, let's make them an online game". They are saying "hey, there are all these mmo players, lets' bring them the Elderscrolls lore in a medium they are comfortable with.

 

It would make sense, would it not for the fact that so many MMO devs tried the same and failed, to some degree. WAR, STO, AoC, LotrO  and SW:TOR all took an existing IP and tried to turn it into some kind of themepark so that in the end it looked more like WoW than the IPs they were built on.

Maybe the "problem" is that they made some money, even though the games, except maybe LotrO, are largely considered failures. And this I suspect is all that they care about, profits with low risk. Because lets face it, ThemeParks works. Are they innovative, complex and interesting? Nope, but they sell some copies, enough apparently to put these games into the black.

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