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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » ZeniMax 'unapologetic' about making Elder Scrolls MMO

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130 posts found
  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 860

6/01/12 11:22:17 PM#21
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by letsxhat

This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

 

Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

               ^ /thread.

But the purpose of using an existing IP is so your MMO has a predisposed fan base at its release. If you use the Elder Scrolls IP but then anger the fan base by Sandbagging what they love about the Elder Scrolls, doesn't that defeat the purpose?

  remyburke

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3018

I liked MMOs better when gamers didn't play them, and just geeks did.

6/01/12 11:23:00 PM#22

They don't need to apologize to me. I'm not buying the game.

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  letsxhat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/25/12
Posts: 159

6/01/12 11:24:45 PM#23
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by letsxhat

This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

 

Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

               ^ /thread.

But the purpose of using an existing IP is so your MMO has a predisposed fan base at its release. If you use the Elder Scrolls IP but then anger the fan base by Sandbagging what they love about the Elder Scrolls, doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Sandbag as in slow rolling, or holding out on features. Down playing what the game does have. "Yeah were just making your typical mmorpg." As information comes out this game looks anything but typical.

  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 860

6/01/12 11:31:42 PM#24
Originally posted by letsxhat
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by letsxhat

This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

 

Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

               ^ /thread.

But the purpose of using an existing IP is so your MMO has a predisposed fan base at its release. If you use the Elder Scrolls IP but then anger the fan base by Sandbagging what they love about the Elder Scrolls, doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Sandbag as in slow rolling, or holding out on features. 

Sandbag as in; that is a quote from letsxhat

  letsxhat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/25/12
Posts: 159

6/01/12 11:34:10 PM#25

 

Sandbagging
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Sandbagging, hiding the strength, skill or difficulty of something or someone early in an engagement,
 
I would like to take credit but alas I can not ;)
  adam_nox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2072

6/01/12 11:37:22 PM#26

Few people cared about the lore, or the name, or the setting.  Such things are pretty generic when it comes to medieval fantasy.

 

What I think people liked about elder scrolls was how you lived in it.  How you could run from one end to the other, how you could explore.  I don't think the combat was without it's flaws, but to exist in real time, without odd cooldowns and castbars is distinctive and integral to the immersive nature of the franchise.

 

If they want to defend the game, counter the criticisms, clarify how the game won't be a WoW clone, then they should do that.  The fact that they've been given many opportunities to do so and instead have just said how they are fine with ticking people off indicates that it will be just that: a sad WoW clone exploiting the elder scrolls popularity.

  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 860

6/01/12 11:40:09 PM#27
Originally posted by letsxhat

 

Sandbagging
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Look up sandbagging in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Sandbagging, hiding the strength, skill or difficulty of something or someone early in an engagement,
 
I would like to take credit but alas I can not ;)

 

 

sandbagging 437 up70 down
 
When a player in any game chooses (on purpose) to not play their best. Normally this is because they are too superior, they want to hustle you, or they are too lazy to play their best with nothing on the line.
The Elder Scrolls single player game is a superior game. And they are Sandbagging it. They are choosing not to play their best. They just want to hustle us by giving us something with "Elder Scrolls" name on it, but not put forth  the effort it would take to actualy make an Elder Scrolls game the right way.
  letsxhat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/25/12
Posts: 159

6/01/12 11:59:46 PM#28
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by letsxhat

 

Sandbagging
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Look up sandbagging in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Sandbagging, hiding the strength, skill or difficulty of something or someone early in an engagement,
 
I would like to take credit but alas I can not ;)

 

 

sandbagging 437 up70 down
 
When a player in any game chooses (on purpose) to not play their best. Normally this is because they are too superior, they want to hustle you, or they are too lazy to play their best with nothing on the line.
The Elder Scrolls single player game is a superior game. And they are Sandbagging it. They are choosing not to play their best. They just want to hustle us by giving us something with "Elder Scrolls" name on it, but not put forth  the effort it would take to actualy make an Elder Scrolls game the right way.

It's amazing how to people could read the samething completely different. I look at it as they are no where near any type of launch probably a year or more out, why the heck would they spill the beans now? If you have the "nuts" slow play your hand .

 

I played Oblivian. I adored that game, however the comabt was unremarkable to me. The freedom is what I liked. go,  do, be who you want. 

 

When I first heard about the release, I too was like "wtf I can't be a vampire?! Standard mmo and using the hero engine?!" As info comes out somethings have interested me. I'm a pvpr (former hardcore raider) True massive RvRvR, and ability progression seem pretty cool. All set in a wide open world.

  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 860

6/02/12 12:13:41 AM#29
Originally posted by letsxhat
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by letsxhat

 

Sandbagging
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Look up sandbagging in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Sandbagging, hiding the strength, skill or difficulty of something or someone early in an engagement,
 
I would like to take credit but alas I can not ;)

 

 

sandbagging 437 up70 down
 
When a player in any game chooses (on purpose) to not play their best. Normally this is because they are too superior, they want to hustle you, or they are too lazy to play their best with nothing on the line.
The Elder Scrolls single player game is a superior game. And they are Sandbagging it. They are choosing not to play their best. They just want to hustle us by giving us something with "Elder Scrolls" name on it, but not put forth  the effort it would take to actualy make an Elder Scrolls game the right way.

It's amazing how to people could read the samething completely different. I look at it as they are no where near any type of launch probably a year or more out, why the heck would they spill the beans now? If you have the "nuts" slow play your hand .

I played Oblivian. I adored that game, however the comabt was unremarkable to me. The freedom is what I liked. go,  do, be who you want. 

 When I first heard about the release, I too was like "wtf I can't be a vampire?! Standard mmo and using the hero engine?!" As info comes out somethings have interested me. I'm a pvpr (former hardcore raider) True massive RvRvR, and ability progression seem pretty cool. All set in a wide open world.

Well I am glad you are looking forward to the game and I do believe the three faction PVP will be the selling point. I just don't like that they are trying to "Sell" us on the Idea that because this is an MMO they have to make it this way, when other games that are upcoming releases are trying to be different.

There's also a bit of discussion about art style, camera modes, and the decision to MMOify the Elder Scrolls IP. "We're making an MMO, we're unapologetic about that. 

This whole, "Sorry our hands are tied, we are making an MMO so it has to be a WoW clone set in the Elder Scrolls universe" doesn't really cut it. It doesn't HAVE to be that way, just because they are making an MMO, but that is what they are trying to make us believe, that because it is an MMO they had no choice in the matter.

  Varking

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 435

Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it.

6/02/12 12:17:10 AM#30

This is the direction they are taking it and they are making their game. Not your game. So why should they be sorry? Get over it.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1120

6/02/12 12:19:04 AM#31
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by letsxhat

This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

 

Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

Possibley, but when was the last time you saw Blizzard roll out an expansion to the WarCraft RPG outside of WoW expansions?

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  Varking

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 435

Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it.

6/02/12 12:21:47 AM#32
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by letsxhat

This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

 

Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

Possibley, but when was the last time you saw Blizzard roll out an expansion to the WarCraft RPG outside of WoW expansions?

There is a Warcraft RPG??!!

 

For real though, FFXI didn't stop the series. Star Wars Galaxies and Star Wars The Old Republic didn't stop and hasn't stopped the single player games. Stop panicking.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1120

6/02/12 12:28:23 AM#33
Originally posted by Varking

This is the direction they are taking it and they are making their game. Not your game. So why should they be sorry? Get over it.

This is true.

The TESO Train is moving full throttle. It is obvious they will not alter their course.

Even though some in the community sees the defect in the track, Zenimax believes it wont affect much. Or they dont care if it does.

Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead.

 

So the only thing to do now is sit back and /popcorn

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1120

6/02/12 12:32:25 AM#34
Originally posted by Varking
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by letsxhat

This dude is confident enough in his idea to sanbag the games features. I'm telling you watch out for this one.

 

Dedicated engine built from scratch, True RvRvR, Ability progression, whats next? 

My question would be; why call it The Elder Scrolls, if the all features that make it Elder Scrolls have been sandbagged.

Why shouldn't they use their own IP and lore.  Why should they have to invent a whole new mythos?  It took a lot of work, time, and money to create what they have so far.  It's a good lore and a good story.  They should stick with it.  If anything, it would be a shame if they confined themselves to the same old thing over and over again.

An Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't mean they can't make another single player game.  It also doesn't mean they should only have to make the same single player game again.

Possibley, but when was the last time you saw Blizzard roll out an expansion to the WarCraft RPG outside of WoW expansions?

There is a Warcraft RPG??!!

 

For real though, FFXI didn't stop the series. Star Wars Galaxies and Star Wars The Old Republic didn't stop and hasn't stopped the single player games. Stop panicking.

No panicing. Just making a comment.

True about FF. as for StarWars, nothing will ever stop the Lucas Money machine. He will milk that bantha till it shits Tatooine dust.

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 860

6/02/12 12:32:58 AM#35
Originally posted by Varking

This is the direction they are taking it and they are making their game. Not your game. So why should they be sorry? Get over it.

I would think because the whole point of using and existing IP is to have a pre-existing fan base. What is the point of angering that fan base? doesn't that defeat the purpose of using a popular IP?

  Kaijin2k3

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 549

6/02/12 12:33:01 AM#36

I have to agree with some others. This is the direction they've decided and they don't seem to wish to change no matter what. They can be "unapologatic," because I'm not going to be purchasing anyways.

Also since it's ZeniMax Online doing this along with a completely different development team, I really doubt it's going to affect Bethesda and Todd from continuing with another single player game.

  Varking

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 435

Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it.

6/02/12 12:35:32 AM#37
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by Varking

This is the direction they are taking it and they are making their game. Not your game. So why should they be sorry? Get over it.

I would think because the whole point of using and existing IP is to have a pre-existing fan base. What is the point of angering that fan base? doesn't that defeat the purpose of using a popular IP?

Name recognition, even if you enjoy their single player games or never tried one. You know the name.

  Amsai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/11
Posts: 69

6/02/12 12:38:18 AM#38

 

Hmmm, anyone else notice how they side-stepped the "members of different factions being able to visit 'enemy' regions" question? I mean I had pretty much already figured on race-locked by faction, and they did say Cyrodiil would be the only open PvP area............So by the way the dude side-stepped the issue and started talking about how great and big each area was instead, makes me think that if I am from Daggerfall I cant go to Skyrim??? I mean they dont specifically state that, but then if not why so dodgy?

 

Depending on how they do PvP and what all it will effect will determine if I play this game or not. I could care less if it is Elder Scrolls-ish enough. So far I like "some" of the things they are saying.

 

Also I have been reading up on all the interviews and info on this game and I see a lot of people really hating on this game. For TES fans, I sorta see where they are coming from, but as a non-TES series player, it doesnt really effect me because I dont have any TES series expectations. If that makes sense? However, I do find it ridiculous at how many people are calling it a WoW clone. Now I haven't played the game obviously, but from what they are decribing it sounds mostly nothing like WoW. Sure there are a few things that sound familiar, but not nearly enough to call it a WoW clone. However, there are definately enough similar and same-ish ideas to call it a GW2 clone (if thats even possible due to that game not being out, and me not knowing which started dev first?). That being said, I am actually OK with that. Because I like what GW2 is doing, and my only problem with GW2 is it doesnt seem very deep (just my opinion) and I am a huge fan of role based classes (read: Holy Trinity). Perhaps TESO can take the good from GW2 and marry that with a bit more depth and role based classes.

And to all you TES fans: /comfort

@Tipster, yep reposting this cause it was totally in the wrong TES and posdcast related thread..... oops.

  Gurpslord

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/22/09
Posts: 372

You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed.

6/02/12 12:46:24 AM#39
Originally posted by chaintm

The only saving grace in my eyes atm is they have a lead developer from the old DAOC game, if they implment any of the rvr seige and such into this game for say guild vs guild of factions vs factions in a seige setting like DAOC with npc hiring henchmens on the wall mounts etc, I could definitly get into something like that. However, the basics of gameplay (from what we know) and the questing just seems like another generic MMO, it will take some innoviation from these guys to bring many to the fold. I hope this guy helps bring some good old combat into this game like that, If so, that might change many peoples opinions.

I remember this..this seems familiar.  Oh yes, Tabula Rasa.  So many people saying, the saving Grace here is that guy from Ultima Online, UO was so full of awesome that he's bound to bring awesome with him.  Meanwhile he went to space and his game went to hell.

I understand that's an apples to oranges situation here, but saying oh yeh that Guy who I guess gets credit for the DAOC pvp is on the team so that parts awesome.  Except that DAOC involved more than him, he was just the mouthpiece or the guy at the front, he may have definitely had a LOT to do with it, but he had a team working on it.  One man will not an MMO make...or Break.  Unless your last name is Smedley..that one..that's no good.

The second half of your statement is what rings true here.  THey announced with screens and statements saying essentially, I hope you like TES enough to buy into another cardboard sword and board MMO.  We have almost nothing new or intersting to add other than that it's an Elder Scrolls....but an MMO.  Our combat is totally like all those other MMOs you play so you won't be surprised, we're catering to the "MMO" Crowd here.

Except the MMO crowd doesn't want to be catered to with the same crap that everyone else has "catered" to them for the last ten years it feels.  

 

Right now I shake my head in pure negativity about this title, it may not even be fair or warrented, however the last...heck..just MONTHS of releases have been so horrid and solidly disappointing that someone coming along and saying hey we got more of what you already have a dozen times over but this time it's with TES and that guy from DAOC...eh...no thanks.  Show me something actually interesting and not carbon copied over from your standard MMOs of the last X years and we'll talk.

I'm not immediately claiming foul or garbage here, my actual expectation of the game is that it's going to be 100% mediocre...  Which isn't a success on any level as mediocre turns to empty and boring very quick.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1120

6/02/12 12:47:15 AM#40
Originally posted by Amsai

 

Hmmm, anyone else notice how they side-stepped the "members of different factions being able to visit 'enemy' regions" question? I mean I had pretty much already figured on race-locked by faction, and they did say Cyrodiil would be the only open PvP area............So by the way the dude side-stepped the issue and started talking about how great and big each area was instead, makes me think that if I am from Daggerfall I cant go to Skyrim??? I mean they dont specifically state that, but then if not why so dodgy?

 

Depending on how they do PvP and what all it will effect will determine if I play this game or not. I could care less if it is Elder Scrolls-ish enough. So far I like "some" of the things they are saying.

 

Also I have been reading up on all the interviews and info on this game and I see a lot of people really hating on this game. For TES fans, I sorta see where they are coming from, but as a non-TES series player, it doesnt really effect me because I dont have any TES series expectations. If that makes sense? However, I do find it ridiculous at how many people are calling it a WoW clone. Now I haven't played the game obviously, but from what they are decribing it sounds mostly nothing like WoW. Sure there are a few things that sound familiar, but not nearly enough to call it a WoW clone. However, there are definately enough similar and same-ish ideas to call it a GW2 clone (if thats even possible due to that game not being out, and me not knowing which started dev first?). That being said, I am actually OK with that. Because I like what GW2 is doing, and my only problem with GW2 is it doesnt seem very deep (just my opinion) and I am a huge fan of role based classes (read: Holy Trinity). Perhaps TESO can take the good from GW2 and marry that with a bit more depth and role based classes.

And to all you TES fans: /comfort

@Tipster, yep reposting this cause it was totally in the wrong TES and posdcast related thread..... oops.

To answer the part in green. In DAOC (Firors first (and only) game), Albions couldnt go to Midgard or Hibernia and vice versa. But they could all fight over the Frontier.

So to answer your question. If you are from Daggerfall, no you probably cant go to Skyrim. Want to see Skyrim? Roll a Nord

IF they make it like they did DAOC, which I bet they will.

 

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

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