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General Discussion  » The Things That Made Skyrim Great - Possible in MMO Format?

19 posts found
  WellzyC

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/11
Posts: 546

Ceaseless

 
OP  5/30/12 3:42:48 PM#1
There's no doubt that Skyrim has to be one of the best RPGs ever. Do I dare put it in the top 5 with FF7 (I know... I know... that is very bold). But I really enjoyed Skryim. The sandbox style gameplay was really refreshing; it was a style that I have not played in a really, really long time.
 
 
After hearing that they are going to make ‘The Elder Scrolls’ into an mmo, it made me wonder. Can you even put the aspects about Skyrim that made it really fun and unique into mmo format?
 
 
 
Having a fun story, but that’s not the meat and potatoes of your game: To be honest, the first time through Skyrim, I didn’t even touch the questing or main story line. All I did was explore, develop my skills, learn shouts, find Easter eggs and holy cow did I have a blast. It wasn't till I re-rolled when I actually did the story line. I’m worried that ESO will make the mistake SWTOR did and just lean on story and cut-scenes WAY too much, where gameplay is next to mindless. If mmos continue this linear story style mmo, the genre will die. Linear story is not what made the mmo genre popular; it was the freedom of choice.

Tons of cramped, interesting dungeons with puzzles and treasure: This could only be really doable if you instanced all of the mini dungeons, since seeing 25 people in your cave would kill the fun of it. Maybe instancing them where your group would enter the same one. But I know having lots of instances, even small ones, are really taxing on servers.
 
 
Ease of travel: This is not so much of a problem as I originally though it was. Gw2 has a transportation system very similar to Skyrim with their waypoints. Once you unlock and area you can just port to it.
 
Awesome real time, dynamic combat: (1) Some would argue that Skyrims combat was simple. I would argue that till I was blue in the face. Yes melee consisted of just swinging and power attacks and you could only have two spells loaded at a time. But people forget that combat is about movement, using your environment, and being creative with your builds. Having to aim your abilities and move your body in a way that you could fight and be defensive was really hard to master.
 
2) Having to Aim: This I think is the most fun thing about Skyrim combat. It makes sense that you would have to aim your bow in order to hit your opponents, but having to aim your magic too? Hell yes that was great. I think rift, SWTOR, and TSW have really proven that the old days of tab targeting and taking turns hitting each other are really getting old. Full action combat is the future of MMOS, having to point and aim your weapons focus more on the player and less on the stats. I for one am all for this transition.
 
 
 
Exploration, and choices beyond character creation: Why should I have to pick a side when making a character? I don’t know anything about those factions, I don’t know what my place will be in this world. When you started Skyrim, you were a prisoner about to be executed. Luckily the dragons are very punctual to help you escape decapitation. After getting free, I learned a lot about the Empire, about the Stormcloaks. I talked to people and discovered what I wanted to do, AND THEN I chose...  You should be able to have the choice of staying neutral or joining a cause after you started the game. Not right away when you make a character.
 
 
I know there are lots of other things that made Skyrim a fun game, and this is getting really lengthy so I will just stop there. But my point is the things that made this game really fun and refreshing I don't think you can make into a massive MMO. The realties of massive games with thousands of people on one server would kill off all of these aspects. So I’m curious to see what they come up with, but still keep the spirit of the Elder Scrolls.

 

 

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, Linear Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

  mmaize

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/09
Posts: 275

5/30/12 4:02:11 PM#2
Originally posted by WellzyC
There's no doubt that Skyrim has to be one of the best RPGs ever. Do I dare put it in the top 5 with FF7 (I know... I know... that is very bold).  Let me correct you, everyone who played FF6 befor FF7 and aren't swayed by graphics alone know that FF6 was by far the better RPG...just sayin.   But I really enjoyed Skryim. The sandbox style gameplay was really refreshing; it was a style that I have not played in a really, really long time.  Totall agree here.
 
 
After hearing that they are going to make ‘The Elder Scrolls’ into an mmo, it made me wonder. Can you even put the aspects about Skyrim that made it really fun and unique into mmo format?
 
 
 
Having a fun story, but that’s not the meat and potatoes of your game: To be honest, the first time through Skyrim, I didn’t even touch the questing or main story line. All I did was explore, develop my skills, learn shouts, find Easter eggs and holy cow did I have a blast. It wasn't till I re-rolled when I actually did the story line. I’m worried that ESO will make the mistake SWTOR did and just lean on story and cut-scenes WAY too much, where gameplay is next to mindless. If mmos continue this linear story style mmo, the genre will die. Linear story is not what made the mmo genre popular; it was the freedom of choice.  Again couldn't have said it better.

Tons of cramped, interesting dungeons with puzzles and treasure: This could only be really doable if you instanced all of the mini dungeons, since seeing 25 people in your cave would kill the fun of it. Maybe instancing them where your group would enter the same one. But I know having lots of instances, even small ones, are really taxing on servers.  It would be taxing but if you're going to do it right this is how you'd have to go.  Another thing you absolutely cannot do is the old DA2 copy paste dungeon thing that too many games now like to do.  Stop cutting corners it's obvious to us as players and we're not going to tolerate it (SWTOR..ahem).
 
Ease of travel: This is not so much of a problem as I originally though it was. Gw2 has a transportation system very similar to Skyrim with their waypoints. Once you unlock and area you can just port to it.
 
Awesome real time, dynamic combat: (1) Some would argue that Skyrims combat was simple. I would argue that till I was blue in the face. Yes melee consisted of just swinging and power attacks and you could only have two spells loaded at a time. But people forget that combat is about movement, using your environment, and being creative with your builds. Having to aim your abilities and move your body in a way that you could fight and be defensive was really hard to master.  I'm in agreement except that for PvP this doesn't work for all the obvious reasons.  Not sure what a reasonable alternative is.
 
2) Having to Aim: This I think is the most fun thing about Skyrim combat. It makes sense that you would have to aim your bow in order to hit your opponents, but having to aim your magic too? Hell yes that was great. I think rift, SWTOR, and TSW have really proven that the old days of tab targeting and taking turns hitting each other are really getting old. Full action combat is the future of MMOS, having to point and aim your weapons focus more on the player and less on the stats. I for one am all for this transition.  Again...spot on...but see above comment.
 
 
 
Exploration, and choices beyond character creation: Why should I have to pick a side when making a character? I don’t know anything about those factions, I don’t know what my place will be in this world. When you started Skyrim, you were a prisoner about to be executed. Luckily the dragons are very punctual to help you escape decapitation. After getting free, I learned a lot about the Empire, about the Stormcloaks. I talked to people and discovered what I wanted to do, AND THEN I chose...  You should be able to have the choice of staying neutral or joining a cause after you started the game. Not right away when you make a character.
 
 
I know there are lots of other things that made Skyrim a fun game, and this is getting really lengthy so I will just stop there. But my point is the things that made this game really fun and refreshing I don't think you can make into a massive MMO. The realties of massive games with thousands of people on one server would kill off all of these aspects. So I’m curious to see what they come up with, but still keep the spirit of the Elder Scrolls.
 
Pretty much everything you mentioned is what makes Skyrim so awesome and yet so little of it fits into an MMO format.  So the question becomes what do you sacrifice in order to fit such a great experience and open world in a single player environment that suddenly isn't so great and open and large when you have to fit however many servers and hundreds of players?  Is it even possible?

 

 

 

  kostoslav

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/09
Posts: 467

5/30/12 4:04:32 PM#3
I would be happy if skyrim had 4 man co-op
  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

5/30/12 7:29:19 PM#4

" SWTOR, and TSW have really proven that the old days of tab targeting and taking turns hitting each other are really getting old."

 

swtor has alot of problems,its combat system i wouldnt really say would be one of them.or at least that big of a problem

and the secret world was bound to fail anyway.i mean,when people look at funcom,they automatically think back of the failure that age of conan was.so i bet that killed alot of people wanting to play the secret world

 

 

 

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5322

6/04/12 1:07:01 PM#5
Originally posted by mmaize
Originally posted by WellzyC
There's no doubt that Skyrim has to be one of the best RPGs ever. Do I dare put it in the top 5 with FF7 (I know... I know... that is very bold).  Let me correct you, everyone who played FF6 befor FF7 and aren't swayed by graphics alone know that FF6 was by far the better RPG...just sayin.   But I really enjoyed Skryim. The sandbox style gameplay was really refreshing; it was a style that I have not played in a really, really long time.  Totall agree here.
 
 
After hearing that they are going to make ‘The Elder Scrolls’ into an mmo, it made me wonder. Can you even put the aspects about Skyrim that made it really fun and unique into mmo format?
 
 
 
Having a fun story, but that’s not the meat and potatoes of your game: To be honest, the first time through Skyrim, I didn’t even touch the questing or main story line. All I did was explore, develop my skills, learn shouts, find Easter eggs and holy cow did I have a blast. It wasn't till I re-rolled when I actually did the story line. I’m worried that ESO will make the mistake SWTOR did and just lean on story and cut-scenes WAY too much, where gameplay is next to mindless. If mmos continue this linear story style mmo, the genre will die. Linear story is not what made the mmo genre popular; it was the freedom of choice.  Again couldn't have said it better.

Tons of cramped, interesting dungeons with puzzles and treasure: This could only be really doable if you instanced all of the mini dungeons, since seeing 25 people in your cave would kill the fun of it. Maybe instancing them where your group would enter the same one. But I know having lots of instances, even small ones, are really taxing on servers.  It would be taxing but if you're going to do it right this is how you'd have to go.  Another thing you absolutely cannot do is the old DA2 copy paste dungeon thing that too many games now like to do.  Stop cutting corners it's obvious to us as players and we're not going to tolerate it (SWTOR..ahem).
 
Ease of travel: This is not so much of a problem as I originally though it was. Gw2 has a transportation system very similar to Skyrim with their waypoints. Once you unlock and area you can just port to it.
 
Awesome real time, dynamic combat: (1) Some would argue that Skyrims combat was simple. I would argue that till I was blue in the face. Yes melee consisted of just swinging and power attacks and you could only have two spells loaded at a time. But people forget that combat is about movement, using your environment, and being creative with your builds. Having to aim your abilities and move your body in a way that you could fight and be defensive was really hard to master.  I'm in agreement except that for PvP this doesn't work for all the obvious reasons.  Not sure what a reasonable alternative is.
 
2) Having to Aim: This I think is the most fun thing about Skyrim combat. It makes sense that you would have to aim your bow in order to hit your opponents, but having to aim your magic too? Hell yes that was great. I think rift, SWTOR, and TSW have really proven that the old days of tab targeting and taking turns hitting each other are really getting old. Full action combat is the future of MMOS, having to point and aim your weapons focus more on the player and less on the stats. I for one am all for this transition.  Again...spot on...but see above comment.
 
 
 
Exploration, and choices beyond character creation: Why should I have to pick a side when making a character? I don’t know anything about those factions, I don’t know what my place will be in this world. When you started Skyrim, you were a prisoner about to be executed. Luckily the dragons are very punctual to help you escape decapitation. After getting free, I learned a lot about the Empire, about the Stormcloaks. I talked to people and discovered what I wanted to do, AND THEN I chose...  You should be able to have the choice of staying neutral or joining a cause after you started the game. Not right away when you make a character.
 
 
I know there are lots of other things that made Skyrim a fun game, and this is getting really lengthy so I will just stop there. But my point is the things that made this game really fun and refreshing I don't think you can make into a massive MMO. The realties of massive games with thousands of people on one server would kill off all of these aspects. So I’m curious to see what they come up with, but still keep the spirit of the Elder Scrolls.
 
Pretty much everything you mentioned is what makes Skyrim so awesome and yet so little of it fits into an MMO format.  So the question becomes what do you sacrifice in order to fit such a great experience and open world in a single player environment that suddenly isn't so great and open and large when you have to fit however many servers and hundreds of players?  Is it even possible?

 

 

 

I hate to be the guy who keeps repeating the blindly obvious.

I know of a game that people dont like for various reasons but FPS massive scale PVP combat is not NOT one of those reasons. In fact it makes the game the best in the market at that feature. Darkfall does 100+ players on the screen, in combat, FPS view, with lots of various physics....no problem.

If Zenimax feels there are specific reasons why their case is different then they need to grow some man b*lls and say what the specfics are instead of pretending like its never been done before.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Mishakai

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/12
Posts: 106

6/04/12 1:12:57 PM#6

Yes, everything is entirely possible in an MMO.  As long as you completely ditch the notion that there has to be some static unchanging world, or part of that world so that every player has the exact same opportunites to do the exact same things as every other player.

Completely possible.

  User Deleted
6/04/12 1:13:25 PM#7
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by mmaize
Originally posted by WellzyC
There's no doubt that Skyrim has to be one of the best RPGs ever. Do I dare put it in the top 5 with FF7 (I know... I know... that is very bold).  Let me correct you, everyone who played FF6 befor FF7 and aren't swayed by graphics alone know that FF6 was by far the better RPG...just sayin.   But I really enjoyed Skryim. The sandbox style gameplay was really refreshing; it was a style that I have not played in a really, really long time.  Totall agree here.
 
 
After hearing that they are going to make ‘The Elder Scrolls’ into an mmo, it made me wonder. Can you even put the aspects about Skyrim that made it really fun and unique into mmo format?
 
 
 
Having a fun story, but that’s not the meat and potatoes of your game: To be honest, the first time through Skyrim, I didn’t even touch the questing or main story line. All I did was explore, develop my skills, learn shouts, find Easter eggs and holy cow did I have a blast. It wasn't till I re-rolled when I actually did the story line. I’m worried that ESO will make the mistake SWTOR did and just lean on story and cut-scenes WAY too much, where gameplay is next to mindless. If mmos continue this linear story style mmo, the genre will die. Linear story is not what made the mmo genre popular; it was the freedom of choice.  Again couldn't have said it better.

Tons of cramped, interesting dungeons with puzzles and treasure: This could only be really doable if you instanced all of the mini dungeons, since seeing 25 people in your cave would kill the fun of it. Maybe instancing them where your group would enter the same one. But I know having lots of instances, even small ones, are really taxing on servers.  It would be taxing but if you're going to do it right this is how you'd have to go.  Another thing you absolutely cannot do is the old DA2 copy paste dungeon thing that too many games now like to do.  Stop cutting corners it's obvious to us as players and we're not going to tolerate it (SWTOR..ahem).
 
Ease of travel: This is not so much of a problem as I originally though it was. Gw2 has a transportation system very similar to Skyrim with their waypoints. Once you unlock and area you can just port to it.
 
Awesome real time, dynamic combat: (1) Some would argue that Skyrims combat was simple. I would argue that till I was blue in the face. Yes melee consisted of just swinging and power attacks and you could only have two spells loaded at a time. But people forget that combat is about movement, using your environment, and being creative with your builds. Having to aim your abilities and move your body in a way that you could fight and be defensive was really hard to master.  I'm in agreement except that for PvP this doesn't work for all the obvious reasons.  Not sure what a reasonable alternative is.
 
2) Having to Aim: This I think is the most fun thing about Skyrim combat. It makes sense that you would have to aim your bow in order to hit your opponents, but having to aim your magic too? Hell yes that was great. I think rift, SWTOR, and TSW have really proven that the old days of tab targeting and taking turns hitting each other are really getting old. Full action combat is the future of MMOS, having to point and aim your weapons focus more on the player and less on the stats. I for one am all for this transition.  Again...spot on...but see above comment.
 
 
 
Exploration, and choices beyond character creation: Why should I have to pick a side when making a character? I don’t know anything about those factions, I don’t know what my place will be in this world. When you started Skyrim, you were a prisoner about to be executed. Luckily the dragons are very punctual to help you escape decapitation. After getting free, I learned a lot about the Empire, about the Stormcloaks. I talked to people and discovered what I wanted to do, AND THEN I chose...  You should be able to have the choice of staying neutral or joining a cause after you started the game. Not right away when you make a character.
 
 
I know there are lots of other things that made Skyrim a fun game, and this is getting really lengthy so I will just stop there. But my point is the things that made this game really fun and refreshing I don't think you can make into a massive MMO. The realties of massive games with thousands of people on one server would kill off all of these aspects. So I’m curious to see what they come up with, but still keep the spirit of the Elder Scrolls.
 
Pretty much everything you mentioned is what makes Skyrim so awesome and yet so little of it fits into an MMO format.  So the question becomes what do you sacrifice in order to fit such a great experience and open world in a single player environment that suddenly isn't so great and open and large when you have to fit however many servers and hundreds of players?  Is it even possible?

 

 

 

I hate to be the guy who keeps repeating the blindly obvious.

I know of a game that people dont like for various reasons but FPS massive scale PVP combat is not NOT one of those reasons. In fact it makes the game the best in the market at that feature. Darkfall does 100+ players on the screen, in combat, FPS view, with lots of various physics....no problem.

If Zenimax feels there are specific reasons why their case is different then they need to grow some man b*lls and say what the specfics are instead of pretending like its never been done before.

^This guy makes a valid point: Darkfall is VERY similar to what a TES mmo should be. 

  BigCountry

Novice Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 480

6/04/12 1:57:28 PM#8
Originally posted by kalsigur

^This guy makes a valid point: Darkfall is VERY similar to what a TES mmo should be. 

 

Yes, yes and triple yes.

:D

 

Darkfall needed storyline and content. Outside of PvP, it had NONE. Well it had some, but it was horrible....I mean horrible....lol

 

You toss TES PvE/content/storyline into Darkfall and you have one bad ass game...

BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  User Deleted
6/04/12 2:01:53 PM#9

What makes Skyrim great, like all other single player RPG (if not all SP) is simply that. It's an SP. You, the player, are the center of the universe (game), everything revolves around. Your decisions actually matter, things that you killed will stay dead (sort of). People that hate, will hate you and attack. Now, this is possible in an mmorpg, however, like i already said, the difference is that you are unique, the chosen one. The world reacts to you. This is not possible in an mmorpg.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5322

6/04/12 2:06:01 PM#10
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

What makes Skyrim great, like all other single player RPG (if not all SP) is simply that. It's an SP. You, the player, are the center of the universe (game), everything revolves around. Your decisions actually matter, things that you killed will stay dead (sort of). People that hate, will hate you and attack. Now, this is possible in an mmorpg, however, like i already said, the difference is that you are unique, the chosen one. The world reacts to you. This is not possible in an mmorpg.

The issue here is this. Between the extreemes of EXACTLY Syrim and WOW is a huge margin. None of the fans are realistically saying they want the MMO to be EXACTLY like Skyrim that is just the best possible dream.

The things zenimax has described as not workable exist in current MMOs and they exist very well. They need to grow some hair on their n*ts and address more specifically what the differences are as to why they can not or will not do it rather then trying to pretend features dont exist in MMOs such as FPS combat and housing.

Correlation does not imply causation

  Mexorilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/12
Posts: 316

6/04/12 2:10:33 PM#11
Originally posted by kostoslav
I would be happy if skyrim had 4 man co-op

yep.  they need to stop fapping off,  and make a first person mmo that is as close to Elder Scrolls as possible.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5322

6/04/12 2:15:56 PM#12
Originally posted by Mexorilla
Originally posted by kostoslav
I would be happy if skyrim had 4 man co-op

yep.  they need to stop fapping off,  and make a first person mmo that is as close to Elder Scrolls as possible.

if Skyrim could handle about 200 players on the full map at once I would gladly pay a TES dedicated/certified server fee

Correlation does not imply causation

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

6/04/12 2:20:12 PM#13

Well for one thing it seemed many people consider the elder scrolls titles effective for having built out the concept of being an actual world. The underlying aspects that drives that would be the AI driving NPC lifecycles and interactivity. Be it in towns with people, on the countryside with some hunters or bandits, or the wildlife(though the wildlife somewhat has always lacked a real lifecycle). In the last elderscrolls game they made a good leap on that front, of emulating general life activities and being albe to shift quest actions and activities across those NPCs.

 

That to me is not only something that could be translated to an MMO, but should be.

 

NPC lifecycles and the ability for quests to react somewhat dynamically to conditions that affect those NPCs. That doesn't mean a shop has to open at 8am and close at night, but NPCs might change shifts through the day, so you essentially have a set of people for the graveyard shifts.

 

The one thing I say is a bad or ineffective translation to MMO space is like prior mentioned the whole being the 'chosen one'.

 

It's not a unique problem though. Even WoW, Everquest, and UO have had this issue for the entirety of their existence.

 

For example, how many times has Onyxia or the Lich King died now? Or how many times has one of the great dragons in DAoC gotten killed? How many times has any of the named mobes in Everquest been staked out and slaughtered for a 'unique item' that how many people carry around at this point because they consider it mandatory for later content?

 

That has been a persistent flaw in MMOs in general for a very-very long time.

 

The solution is a bit harder to solve. But saying it is easy enough. Make people compete for titles.

 

EDIT: Essentially, if some one wants to be 'the champion', then the system has to be designed around the concept that there's a finite set of people who can become champions of a given thing, and they have topan out across activities, factions, and such in ordert to obtain or usurp a title.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  uohaloran

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/05
Posts: 832

6/04/12 2:22:56 PM#14

I just don't see any facets of Skyrim that would make me enjoy MMORPGs more.  In fact, some of the aspects that are heralded as being a defining part of Skyrim are steps backwards in the genre, I think.

Beside my opinion of the game, Skyrim and all TES games are singleplayer games.  Attempting to move them into a multiplayer setting without completely changing everything about them is an undertaking that nobody will ever take (not even Zenimax themselves!).  The mechanics and systems therein do not translate easily and some not at all.

A slow process of changing what singleplayer TES is would allow them to make the transition easier.  They need to take a jab at cooperative play before even considering the prospects of there being hundreds of people in any given area at a time.  You cannot simple drop players into the way the games exist now -- too many things are thrown out of kilter.

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

6/04/12 5:13:19 PM#15

Curious what those non-translating aspects are, seeing as the argument here is many can be.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  User Deleted
6/04/12 5:46:17 PM#16

I think the two biggest things they wouldn't be able to bring into an MMO are interactive items, and the whole sneaking/stealing system.

Allowing every item in the game to be handled/thrown/whatever with physics would take up far to many resources and likely cause a lot of performance problems, not to mention giving that kind interactivity in an MMO where you have hundreds of players would lead to ridiculous things. The only way I could see this feature making it into an MMO would be if they went the EQ/AC route of allowing only lootable/equipment items to be dropped with no physics and a expiration timer.

And being able to sneak from stores or whatever NPC you see would be pretty exploitable.

 

Beyond that I think most features could be worked into an MMO in some way or another.

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

6/04/12 6:03:32 PM#17

Can do what Asheron's Call did and just make items placeable. Expand on it so it doesn't just drop at yer feet and instead lets you generally place location in a radius near you, giving a little preview shilouette, then just restrict the number of placeable objects rended within 'x' distance as a performance slider option, that way at a distance those objects can be replaced by a generic loot model or icon or faded out completely, and up close can still be regulated in volume.

 

Stealing definitely would need a revamp so people aren't looting everything in sight. Either by making it harder and/or much harsher penalty, or altering the core mechanic so it's a finite loot table for friendly NPCs and contextual for enemies.

 

Stealth I think they could still use the traditional mechanics if they were able to build up the variety, turn it into alost like a simplified version of Splinter Cell or Thief as an ability, buildings/dungeons having an appropriate means of access and travel for players to validly spend their time stealthing through a place. More effort than likely ever to be put in though.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/05/12 5:41:17 PM#18
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

" SWTOR, and TSW have really proven that the old days of tab targeting and taking turns hitting each other are really getting old."

 

swtor has alot of problems,its combat system i wouldnt really say would be one of them.or at least that big of a problem

and the secret world was bound to fail anyway.i mean,when people look at funcom,they automatically think back of the failure that age of conan was.so i bet that killed alot of people wanting to play the secret world

 

 

 

disagree TSW combat system is pretty good.  Its a big step up from the typical WOW / SWTOR type combat.  most of the people not getting anything out of it were trying to play it like WOW. - e.g. total biscuit standing there spamming a rotation like a right numbnut.

also GW2 combat isn't that different to TSW combat.  GW2 just does a slighlty better job of pretending its real time.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/05/12 5:43:14 PM#19
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by mmaize
Originally posted by WellzyC
There's no doubt that Skyrim has to be one of the best RPGs ever. Do I dare put it in the top 5 with FF7 (I know... I know... that is very bold).  Let me correct you, everyone who played FF6 befor FF7 and aren't swayed by graphics alone know that FF6 was by far the better RPG...just sayin.   But I really enjoyed Skryim. The sandbox style gameplay was really refreshing; it was a style that I have not played in a really, really long time.  Totall agree here.
 
 
After hearing that they are going to make ‘The Elder Scrolls’ into an mmo, it made me wonder. Can you even put the aspects about Skyrim that made it really fun and unique into mmo format?
 
 
 
Having a fun story, but that’s not the meat and potatoes of your game: To be honest, the first time through Skyrim, I didn’t even touch the questing or main story line. All I did was explore, develop my skills, learn shouts, find Easter eggs and holy cow did I have a blast. It wasn't till I re-rolled when I actually did the story line. I’m worried that ESO will make the mistake SWTOR did and just lean on story and cut-scenes WAY too much, where gameplay is next to mindless. If mmos continue this linear story style mmo, the genre will die. Linear story is not what made the mmo genre popular; it was the freedom of choice.  Again couldn't have said it better.

Tons of cramped, interesting dungeons with puzzles and treasure: This could only be really doable if you instanced all of the mini dungeons, since seeing 25 people in your cave would kill the fun of it. Maybe instancing them where your group would enter the same one. But I know having lots of instances, even small ones, are really taxing on servers.  It would be taxing but if you're going to do it right this is how you'd have to go.  Another thing you absolutely cannot do is the old DA2 copy paste dungeon thing that too many games now like to do.  Stop cutting corners it's obvious to us as players and we're not going to tolerate it (SWTOR..ahem).
 
Ease of travel: This is not so much of a problem as I originally though it was. Gw2 has a transportation system very similar to Skyrim with their waypoints. Once you unlock and area you can just port to it.
 
Awesome real time, dynamic combat: (1) Some would argue that Skyrims combat was simple. I would argue that till I was blue in the face. Yes melee consisted of just swinging and power attacks and you could only have two spells loaded at a time. But people forget that combat is about movement, using your environment, and being creative with your builds. Having to aim your abilities and move your body in a way that you could fight and be defensive was really hard to master.  I'm in agreement except that for PvP this doesn't work for all the obvious reasons.  Not sure what a reasonable alternative is.
 
2) Having to Aim: This I think is the most fun thing about Skyrim combat. It makes sense that you would have to aim your bow in order to hit your opponents, but having to aim your magic too? Hell yes that was great. I think rift, SWTOR, and TSW have really proven that the old days of tab targeting and taking turns hitting each other are really getting old. Full action combat is the future of MMOS, having to point and aim your weapons focus more on the player and less on the stats. I for one am all for this transition.  Again...spot on...but see above comment.
 
 
 
Exploration, and choices beyond character creation: Why should I have to pick a side when making a character? I don’t know anything about those factions, I don’t know what my place will be in this world. When you started Skyrim, you were a prisoner about to be executed. Luckily the dragons are very punctual to help you escape decapitation. After getting free, I learned a lot about the Empire, about the Stormcloaks. I talked to people and discovered what I wanted to do, AND THEN I chose...  You should be able to have the choice of staying neutral or joining a cause after you started the game. Not right away when you make a character.
 
 
I know there are lots of other things that made Skyrim a fun game, and this is getting really lengthy so I will just stop there. But my point is the things that made this game really fun and refreshing I don't think you can make into a massive MMO. The realties of massive games with thousands of people on one server would kill off all of these aspects. So I’m curious to see what they come up with, but still keep the spirit of the Elder Scrolls.
 
Pretty much everything you mentioned is what makes Skyrim so awesome and yet so little of it fits into an MMO format.  So the question becomes what do you sacrifice in order to fit such a great experience and open world in a single player environment that suddenly isn't so great and open and large when you have to fit however many servers and hundreds of players?  Is it even possible?

 

 

 

I hate to be the guy who keeps repeating the blindly obvious.

I know of a game that people dont like for various reasons but FPS massive scale PVP combat is not NOT one of those reasons. In fact it makes the game the best in the market at that feature. Darkfall does 100+ players on the screen, in combat, FPS view, with lots of various physics....no problem.

If Zenimax feels there are specific reasons why their case is different then they need to grow some man b*lls and say what the specfics are instead of pretending like its never been done before.

cough - planetside