Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by smh_alot

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by smh_alot
Yep, which doesn't dismiss the fact that subs can bring in a lot of money especially in the months after launch when they're usually highest :-)

Yup, but when you start to stretch definition of "subscription" right from the start - its telling.

Fact is that they never had 1,7m subs, and fact is that they never reported true number of subs, only active accounts numbers, and we all know that not all active accounts transfer to subs.

 

>.> They had 2-2.4m sales. Rough player retention averages in the post-launch months of a number of AAA MMO's are known, TOR didn't really deviate from those as far as could be observed, don't see why a retention/sub figure of 1.4-1.7m after the first month should be considered strange, since it falls well withing the range of retention drop that other AAA MMO's went through after launch. But ok, in the end it's all just speculating, I agree -_-

Because they had a disclimer on 1,7m figure. Why are you going in circles?

Facts are: they didnt have 1,7m subs and 1,3m subs when they reported they had, they were just ACTIVE ACCOUNTS, and for all we know they might have never even broken 1m subs.

They admitted themselves they use "creative math" with subs, and string of events points at not so good state of the game.

Originally posted by smh_alot ? Running in circles? I know the sales data, I know the 1.7m figure, I don't know this whole 'active account' figure which seems a derivative speculation that has little official to it, and yeah, I read all the tedious bickering and conjecture threads around it, which is almost as tedious as everyone trying to prove the budget figures that ranged from 80m to 500m >.> A whole lotta humbug that was being conjectured around each of those figures

 

Sorry, I know that it must suck for haters or critics of the game, but all this downward speculating and distorting things they've said to the most extreme downwards negative (and thus highly suspicious and unreliable conjecture >.>) sounds vague and weak at best.

 

So I'm gonna stick with what's reasonable and what's common in the MMO market, and that's a 20-30% retention drop on average for AAA MMO's, TOR player activity figures after the 1st month that follow the norm, and the sales figures that are known, which all make a lot more sense to me than some vague conjecturing by TOR/EA haters -_-

 

Of course, you're free to stick with your heavily subjective (mis)interpretation of their statements into figures that fall completely out of what's been common for AAA MMO's and that negates all the actual figures that we do know, to each their own, no biggie :-)

So, uh, you dont even believe them saying they didnt have 1,7m subs. It figures. But hey, you can believe whatever you want to.

Originally posted by aSynchro
Don't forget uncle George gets 30% of all SWTOR money.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by smh_alot ? Running in circles? I know the sales data, I know the 1.7m figure, I don't know this whole 'active account' figure which seems a derivative speculation that has little official to it, and yeah, I read all the tedious bickering and conjecture threads around it, which is almost as tedious as everyone trying to prove the budget figures that ranged from 80m to 500m >.> A whole lotta humbug that was being conjectured around each of those figures

Sorry, I know that it must suck for haters or critics of the game, but all this downward speculating and distorting things they've said to the most extreme downwards negative (and thus highly suspicious and unreliable conjecture >.>) sounds vague and weak at best.

So I'm gonna stick with what's reasonable and what's common in the MMO market, and that's a 20-30% retention drop on average for AAA MMO's, TOR player activity figures after the 1st month that follow the norm, and the sales figures that are known, which all make a lot more sense to me than some vague conjecturing by TOR/EA haters -_-

Of course, you're free to stick with your heavily subjective (mis)interpretation of their statements into figures that fall completely out of what's been common for AAA MMO's and that negates all the actual figures that we do know, to each their own, no biggie :-)

So, uh, you dont even believe them saying they didnt have 1,7m subs. It figures. But hey, you can believe whatever you want to.

Originally posted by smh_alot
? It's funny how you distort my words. I don't believe that they never went above the 1m subs which imo is your own wishful thinking ('I want to see the game burn and fail! Fail!!1! HAHAHAHAHAAA' - ehm, sorry, cough >.>), and I stated that I find a 1.4-1.7m sub figure after the first month, based on sales and regular player retention drop, not that strange or illusionary at all, on the contrary.

 

But hey, whatever indeed >.>

[mod edit]

1. you dont believe their own words about it

2. i said its questionable if they ever broke 1m subs.

And yes, game is failure, and its not you that decides what is and what is not a failure, EA could not have been more clear on that matter.

So yeah, whatever.

People here on MMORPG.com should make their own company they really know a lot of ¨the gaming business¨. We are talking about EA and BW, is not trion or some independent dev company, is EA, BW and LA do you really believe that they need the 200mill or so of swtor dev in the 1st 6 months of the game?. Believe me they wont find the bakruptcy for only $200 mill, they already have the resources and money to make an investment of $200 MIll in a game like swtor and wait 1,2 or 3 years to get back all their money and earnings, and they still have enough resourcers to keep making new content pretty fast. You people are just amazing.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by smh_alot
? It's funny how you distort my words. I don't believe that they never went above the 1m subs which imo is your own wishful thinking ('I want to see the game burn and fail! Fail!!1! HAHAHAHAHAAA' - ehm, sorry, cough >.>), and I stated that I find a 1.4-1.7m sub figure after the first month, based on sales and regular player retention drop, not that strange or illusionary at all, on the contrary.

 

But hey, whatever indeed >.>

Why are you trolling?

1. you dont believe their own words about it

2. i said its questionable if they ever broke 1m subs.

And yes, game is failure, and its not you that decides what is and what is not a failure, EA could not have been more clear on that matter.

So yeah, whatever.

No, SWTOR is the most successful p2p MMO post WoW, that is a fact, and not a wish or point of view. LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT.  

Originally posted by hikaru77

People here on MMORPG.com should make their own company they really know a lot of ¨the gaming business¨. We are talking about EA and BW, is not trion or some independent dev company, is EA, BW and LA do you really believe that they need the 200mill or so of swtor dev in the 1st 6 months of the game?. Believe me they wont find the bakruptcy for only $200 mill, they already have the resources and money to make an investment of $200 MIll in a game like swtor and wait 1,2 or 3 years to get back all their money and earnings, and they still have enough resourcers to keep making new content pretty fast. You people are just amazing.

OK, I translated this into "EA makes tons of money, so they can let the game slowly flop about until it makes enough to recoup its development cost." Did I understand that correctly?

Presuming I did, allow me to point out that EA and Bioware both  slowly seeing sales drop on many of their titles. Numerous bad decisions by the companies (Origin service, Dragon Age 2's poor performance vs its predecessor, The ME3 ending fiasco, ToR's lackluster performance, among others) are shaking player's faith in the company. Eventually that will trickle up to the investors. I'm not saying EA will be filing chapter 11 anytime soon but...Big names in software have fallen before. 

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by Zippy

Look at Tor Status and you will see Tor has 10 NA servers left the rest are dead empty servers.  Europe has 3 servers left and the rest are dead and empty. 

Presently the server status across North America and Euorope is as follows:

1 Medium Server

4 Light Servers

8 Very light Servers

156 Dead Servers

At the current rate of decline the 8 very light servers will all be dead servers within 2 weeks and the light servers will be on the verge of dying. Looking at the 13 light servers left at best ToR has 300k players playing likely less than 200k.  But at the current rate of loss Tor will be down to 3 or 4 non dead servers in the next 3-4 weeks and will have less  than 100k players.

EA/BW since release has engaged in a campaign of misinformation to make peiople believe the game is doing well and has a lot  more subs than it actually has.  The facts simply do not bear that out.  Approaching server merges their latest attempt at deception is the "Mega Server" scam.  They want people to believe there will be mega servers taking the place of all these empty servers.  Looking at Tor Status on a daily bas since launch one can quickly see they do not have the population to support such mega servers.  Rather EA/Bioware realize that at the current decline the population will only be able to support 3-4 servers at most.  But they can save face and keep telling people they are successful with their mega server scam.  Plus it gives the fanboys a reason to make post after post telling people how successful Tor is.

With only 13 light servers left it is not arguable that there are mroe than 300k players left.  The Titantic is sinking and its almost entirely under water now.  There is nothing that can be done for this game at least in the short term.  Many games have recovered from bad launches but it takes years.  With the SW brand name and a few years of development time it could have a revivial down the road and be a 100-300k sub game.  But at least in the short term it is sinking quite fast.

 

I'm interested in how you define 'Very Light' , seeing as that's NOT a status on any of the servers. Also, how does one quantify 'Dead'?

 

I won't contest their plan with the Mega-Servers. I actually think the way they're advertising/talking about it displays uncommon (for them) PR sense. I also won't contest the game is sinking. I play on two servers and the population is 1/3 if not 1/4 of what it was just a month ago. But you're making up numbers and doing it BADLY.

 

And the next time you pull something out of your ass, please do us all the courtesy of wiping before you post it.

 

Im not saying he's correct but if you claim population, on your severs at least, is 1/3 to 1/4 of the population, thats ummm....yea.  Thats around 250,000 or 300,000 or in that ballpark.  Out of a million.  Or 1.3 (I never bought that anyways). I understand thats just on your couple of servers though.  Making up numbers and doing it badly?  Maybe I guess.  Hard to say. 

 

And why would wiping make any difference being that the thing is already out of his *** .  I dont.....what? 

My point is that he trolls in here and purports to be offering REAL metrics. He is not. Bad data is as bad if not worse than NO data. There's no such server status as 'Very Light', so how did he arrive at the conclusion that there are xx number of servers at that status? He did not define 'dead'. Again, it's MEANINGLESS. Yes, I can corroborate that the population on *MY* server is down. However, I don't play on the other billionty servers there are, so that's not a valid sample size. Also, as someone else mentioned, it doesn't take into account the re-rolls on the higher pop servers. 

 

His post is utter bullshit purporting to me something it's not. This subject has been done to death. His post is as assinine as the fanboys claiming it's a orgasmic pleasure to play.

Regardless of whether he made up " very light " or not, the data came from here http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us.  Which, although doesnt show numbers, DOES base itself off the server status provided by Bioware.

The trend is extremely clear.  Even if you believed EA's spin on the numbers, which most of us don't.  Especially when people had accounts they had cancelled that showed active for upwards of 2 months after they cancelled their subscription.

This game is the biggest failure in MMO history.  Period end of conversation. Not even AoC sold as well and dropped as many subs as this game.  And thats SAD because AOC had HUGE gaps in content in the 30's, 50's, and 70's, to where the only way to get through it was a straight mob grind, just killing stuff, no quests, etc.  Yet it still retained more people for a longer time than SWTOR.  Thats saying a LOT about just how crap SWTOR is...

Originally posted by Sameer1979

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Sameer1979

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Sameer1979

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Sameer1979

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by cutthecrap

Originally posted by Greyhooff

The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently

Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

 

Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

I don't have to be in linked conversation because i am still very much on topic. Got any reliable information to back up your facts and grehooff's fact? since you are so damn sure that all he posts is facts and anyone who disagree is just a fanboy.

Any link would be enough or any information that SWTOR is indeed officially in maintenance mode and won't get any updates in future. 

Google it.

Infact i did and there is no official word that further support for SWTOR has been stopped completely. I know for sure such a huge info would come directly from EA if they had plans to shut down SWTOR than some questionable random posters trying to pass their opinions as facts.

So nothing? just like i thought. Greyhoof was smarter to bail out when he had a chance you should do the same.

Noone but you said completely.

 

Suggest you take a Goggle 101 class or even look at the MMORPG.com news section.  But then again I wouldn't want facts to fuck up your idea of college 101 debate on the internetz.

No grehoof said  that...

EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

You know the guy you claimed to only present facts? so much for google 101, couldn't find anything still to back up your facts could you? it is ok take your time, no rush.

Really?  Grehoof said that?  Funny I don't see completely anywhere in his post only yours hero.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by Zippy

Look at Tor Status and you will see Tor has 10 NA servers left the rest are dead empty servers.  Europe has 3 servers left and the rest are dead and empty. 

Presently the server status across North America and Euorope is as follows:

1 Medium Server

4 Light Servers

8 Very light Servers

156 Dead Servers

At the current rate of decline the 8 very light servers will all be dead servers within 2 weeks and the light servers will be on the verge of dying. Looking at the 13 light servers left at best ToR has 300k players playing likely less than 200k.  But at the current rate of loss Tor will be down to 3 or 4 non dead servers in the next 3-4 weeks and will have less  than 100k players.

EA/BW since release has engaged in a campaign of misinformation to make peiople believe the game is doing well and has a lot  more subs than it actually has.  The facts simply do not bear that out.  Approaching server merges their latest attempt at deception is the "Mega Server" scam.  They want people to believe there will be mega servers taking the place of all these empty servers.  Looking at Tor Status on a daily bas since launch one can quickly see they do not have the population to support such mega servers.  Rather EA/Bioware realize that at the current decline the population will only be able to support 3-4 servers at most.  But they can save face and keep telling people they are successful with their mega server scam.  Plus it gives the fanboys a reason to make post after post telling people how successful Tor is.

With only 13 light servers left it is not arguable that there are mroe than 300k players left.  The Titantic is sinking and its almost entirely under water now.  There is nothing that can be done for this game at least in the short term.  Many games have recovered from bad launches but it takes years.  With the SW brand name and a few years of development time it could have a revivial down the road and be a 100-300k sub game.  But at least in the short term it is sinking quite fast.

 

I'm interested in how you define 'Very Light' , seeing as that's NOT a status on any of the servers. Also, how does one quantify 'Dead'?

 

I won't contest their plan with the Mega-Servers. I actually think the way they're advertising/talking about it displays uncommon (for them) PR sense. I also won't contest the game is sinking. I play on two servers and the population is 1/3 if not 1/4 of what it was just a month ago. But you're making up numbers and doing it BADLY.

 

And the next time you pull something out of your ass, please do us all the courtesy of wiping before you post it.

 

Im not saying he's correct but if you claim population, on your severs at least, is 1/3 to 1/4 of the population, thats ummm....yea.  Thats around 250,000 or 300,000 or in that ballpark.  Out of a million.  Or 1.3 (I never bought that anyways). I understand thats just on your couple of servers though.  Making up numbers and doing it badly?  Maybe I guess.  Hard to say. 

 

And why would wiping make any difference being that the thing is already out of his *** .  I dont.....what? 

My point is that he trolls in here and purports to be offering REAL metrics. He is not. Bad data is as bad if not worse than NO data. There's no such server status as 'Very Light', so how did he arrive at the conclusion that there are xx number of servers at that status? He did not define 'dead'. Again, it's MEANINGLESS. Yes, I can corroborate that the population on *MY* server is down. However, I don't play on the other billionty servers there are, so that's not a valid sample size. Also, as someone else mentioned, it doesn't take into account the re-rolls on the higher pop servers. 

 

His post is utter bullshit purporting to me something it's not. This subject has been done to death. His post is as assinine as the fanboys claiming it's a orgasmic pleasure to play.

Regardless of whether he made up " very light " or not, the data came from here http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us.  Which, although doesnt show numbers, DOES base itself off the server status provided by Bioware.

The trend is extremely clear.  Even if you believed EA's spin on the numbers, which most of us don't.  Especially when people had accounts they had cancelled that showed active for upwards of 2 months after they cancelled their subscription.

This game is the biggest failure in MMO history.  Period end of conversation. Not even AoC sold as well and dropped as many subs as this game.  And thats SAD because AOC had HUGE gaps in content in the 30's, 50's, and 70's, to where the only way to get through it was a straight mob grind, just killing stuff, no quests, etc.  Yet it still retained more people for a longer time than SWTOR.  Thats saying a LOT about just how crap SWTOR is...

The numbers from the OP have pretty much held up with the evidence we have seen from the mergers.  Prior to the merge the game had dropped down to 10 total non dead NA and Euro servers.  Since the merge has started they are up to 14 non dead serevrs with 3 others showing some  life,  Likely when the merges are done there will be 20 serveers left which is roughly 200k-400k total players left depending on how full the servers are. Right now the number appears to be closer to 200k. Recall at release we had 210 servers all at 3.0 and that was 1.7 million players (8k players per server) although not subs.  Now when we are done with merges we will have 20 servers with half if not most in the 1.2-1.5 range.  Evven factoring in the casual playerbase 200k might be a very generous estimate.

Looking at the data the server merges are not filling up the rescued servers very well but the full extent of that remains to be seen. Check Tor Status everyday the next few weeks and you will see if the momentum from the merges continues and helps fill up the merged servers or if it quikly comes to a halt and the rapid daily decline continues.  And its my guess once the merges end the game will go back to dropping subs beginning at slow rate than ever quicking.  In a month we should be back to 10 servers which is not even 200k and within 2 months do not be suprised to see the game stabilize at 4-5 total servrers or 100k max subs. But that is only my guess but a guess based upon the previous big decline we saw after 1.2 and what appears to be very light merged servers.

Tor Status while not perfect is a great source of information.  It lets you not only see what serevrs are dead healthy and dropping but lets you see overll trends.  If you would check everyday since January you might have a complety different view of Tor's health and EA and BW's honesty.  It is certainly a much better source than the misleading lies we here from BW and EA and better than any analysis I see the fanboys present.  The extent of their anyalsis is oh the game is doing great because I like it.  Tor Satus' evidence contradicts that point of view and server merges support the data from Tor Staus and again contradict the fanboy evidence and BW and EA's puffery.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71

Originally posted by Sameer1979

 

No grehoof said  that...

EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

You know the guy you claimed to only present facts? so much for google 101, couldn't find anything still to back up your facts could you? it is ok take your time, no rush.

Really?  Grehoof said that?  Funny I don't see completely anywhere in his post only yours hero.

 

To be fair, I did say that in some other post, and I stand by it 100%. Everything I said about this game so far has been correct, it's Warhammer 2.0 in every possible way.

When a game does server merges to shrink to under 10% of its former size, lays off 200 employees (verfied number of job losses), and the CEO goes to investors and calls SWTOR "not a priority", you know the game is being pushed aside and forgotten.

Heck, if you watched the EA show at E3, you would see that.

Ray Muzyka, previously a god among men (yes, Bioware had an amazing reputation before SWTOR), made a sheepish and sweaty presentation about SWTOR that was cut short, and they quickly cut to the next presentation while the crowd didn't even applaud.

It really hits home what an embarrassing failure SWTOR is.

I hope swtor stays for long. It is the best and most complete game ever have played. Never understood all this hathred toward it, even worse then wow. I never hated any game, but here it is exactly this. People happy some game could go down. I lost interest in TR in week, aprox same for others .... but hated none. Sad.

Originally posted by daltanious

I hope swtor stays for long. It is the best and most complete game ever have played. Never understood all this hathred toward it, even worse then wow. I never hated any game, but here it is exactly this. People happy some game could go down. I lost interest in TR in week, aprox same for others .... but hated none. Sad.

Unfortunately everyone who isnt unconditionally praising the game is labeled "hater".

Game has obvious problems, ignoring them wont solve them and thats just what devs+fanbois do.

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by smh_alot
? It's funny how you distort my words. I don't believe that they never went above the 1m subs which imo is your own wishful thinking ('I want to see the game burn and fail! Fail!!1! HAHAHAHAHAAA' - ehm, sorry, cough >.>), and I stated that I find a 1.4-1.7m sub figure after the first month, based on sales and regular player retention drop, not that strange or illusionary at all, on the contrary.

 

But hey, whatever indeed >.>

Why are you trolling?

1. you dont believe their own words about it

2. i said its questionable if they ever broke 1m subs.

And yes, game is failure, and its not you that decides what is and what is not a failure, EA could not have been more clear on that matter.

So yeah, whatever.

No, SWTOR is the most successful p2p MMO post WoW, that is a fact, and not a wish or point of view. LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT.  

Successful in what?

losing players?

merging servers?

losing money?

sacking people?

Yah, its important to be most successful...at least in something rofl

My guess is that the game is down to 150k active players if not less......

I was not refering to who do not like game. I was referring to haters, that are close to climax every time when they mock game and are already happy they - hopefully - will be able to dance on corpse asap. I was referring to such sickos.

Originally posted by daltanious

I was not refering to who do not like game. I was referring to haters, that are close to climax every time when they mock game and are already happy they - hopefully - will be able to dance on corpse asap. I was referring to such sickos.

I'm that kind of as you put it a sicko and I will sound like this when it crash and burns.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayO1wtXbh_Q

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

 

bioware themselves dont have the best record for games eather.alot of games ive played that were bioware games were always crippled with bugs and needed a billion patches just to play the game bug free

 

check record again instead saying craps

baldur's gate say hello

baldur's gate 2 say hello

Kotor say hello

Kotor 2 say hello

Jade empire say hello

Mass effect say hello

Mass effect 2 say hello

Mass effect 3 say hello (horrible ending tho)

Dragon age origin say hello

Dragon age 2 worst bioware only game confirmed

Bioware is one of the top 3 best rpg's maker to date worlwide...haters gonna hate end of story.

300k is about right. 2mill was cinfirmed in December as active (2,4 mill bought the game)

218 servers. Now after transfers, 187 servers are empty. So...

about 2mill / 218 = about 10k per server

31 servers left = about 300k people are active in SWTOR

The subs number is probably a lot higher, but that's not for long.