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6/14/12 3:09:55 PM#181
Originally posted by Sameer1979 Yeah, and string of failed WoW clones really support what you are saying! |
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6/14/12 3:13:03 PM#182
Originally posted by mikahr Meaning of failure is often twisted on these forums. Only because a MMO is unable to surpass WOW in subs or get equal number of subs doesn't mean it is a failure. As long as MMOS are up and running and making profit for company it is a success. No company likes to keep a MMO going with money from their own pockets. How many themepark MMOS have shut down in last 5 years? but i can tell you name of sandbox MMOS which indeed failed as in shut down servers. |
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JoeyMMO
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 10/09/11
To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug* |
6/14/12 3:50:40 PM#183
Originally posted by Larsa If you put in more money than it's making then you're not breaking even and not making a profit. It's very simple really. Whether an accountant is interested in breaking even or not doesn't really matter. It's the investors that want to know when they're going to make their money back and then some. If your idea of profitability is bringing in more money than it costs to keep the game open, then I guess you're not one of the people that put up the money to make TOR.   |
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6/14/12 3:53:10 PM#184
Originally posted by mikahr The problem is, your definition of failure and success. If we were to adopt your point of view only WoW is a success. |
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6/14/12 4:48:49 PM#185
Originally posted by Sameer1979 Yeah, running on vapor like Vanguard/EQ is real story of success! Im sure Funcom said: "Yeah, we will sell 1+m copies of the game, then drop to 50k in 6 months and turn game to run on 2-3 servers as F2P and brag around how successful we are!" Surpassing WoW? Where did anyone mention that? Success is what they define, not you. If they say "we want 1m+ subs" and dont get em its FAILURE. Result =/= success, its the concept you seem to fail to grasp. Really? You can name many AAA sandboxes that failed? Proceed, im in for a bit of entertainmnent. Oh, and btw, where did i mention sandbox anyway? Can you quote where i mentioned it? Anywhere? At all? Originally posted by Atlan99 Nope, not at all, though WoW is only AAA success (in the west) |
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6/14/12 4:56:46 PM#186
Bottomline is, that themepark MMO's manage to have achieved more sales and subs than sandbox MMO's, their peaks were higher and their subs on average were higher. Of course that's not a totally fair comparison because there haven't been many sandbox MMO's, but still, themepark MMO's seemed to have done well over the years, often with sub numbers that pre-WoW would have been regarded as a healthy business model and (more than) healthy numbers and revenues.
Personally, I think the best MMO design would be a themepark/sandbox hybrid, themepark elements because the mainstream playerbase obviously enjoys dev designed content, and sandbox elements to provide variety and added longevity (bc of unpredictability + randomness) in the gameplay. |
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6/14/12 5:11:49 PM#187
Originally posted by mikahr You pretty much contradicted yourself in the same sentence. You said no, no at all in one breath. In the next you say WoW is the only successful mmo in the west . Taking into account SWTOR subcription base and sales. You are basically saying that 99% on the mmo's on this site are failures. You might as well as just call this site a shrine to failure. |
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6/14/12 5:24:00 PM#188
Originally posted by Atlan99 Pretty much you are right. Except percentage. There are many successful MMOs, and you probably never even heard of 99% of them. But scope of this particular section of forum is SWTOR, that happens to be most expencive game in history, usually classified as AAA, and what it takes for game such as that to be successful. And, ofcourse, again, you forgot that what success is or isnt is not yours to define. Think EA would have much to say on that particular topic. Ooops, they did say AND act on it. |
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Moaky07
 Advanced Member
Joined: 2/24/07
MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry. |
6/14/12 5:57:49 PM#189
Originally posted by mikahr You bring up EQ, and not a single sandbox has pulled in the NA numbers EQ did back before WOW launched. 8 yrs, and sandboxes still cant top 450k NA subs?
Spin some more....this is good. Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget. |
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6/14/12 6:58:25 PM#190
Originally posted by eycel nope. isnt that the same thing Blizzard is doing with MoP?
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6/14/12 7:42:28 PM#191
Originally posted by Sameer1979 KOTOR was the wrong themepark, people want Vader, Han, Luke and Lea. Thier biggest mistake was not the theme but not rounding out the game, you need a little sandbox in it to make people happy. That was the single most disapointing thing for me, no place I could call my own. Having a bank in your ship and calling it customizable is marketing lies. The single best feature that SOE had going for its games is housing and item placement in the housing. Second best thing SOE does is crafting, SWG had the best crafting and resource gathering system ever in any MMO. Another thing that disapoints me is that the worlds are theme park roller coasters. They dont look alive and are completly static spawns. Maybe its me but the open world map is the way to go. Random spawns make the map look and feel like the game is changing. You can pick out alot of the good points of all the MMO's and it amazes me that the developers arnt designing games that people want. I hated the NGE but damn was the pvp fun. Whoever blends a themepark and a sandbox and gets it right will be the next king of the hill. |
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Moaky07
Advanced Member
Joined: 2/24/07
MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry. |
6/14/12 11:47:56 PM#192
Originally posted by BullseyeArc1 Give it a rest would ya?
SWG couldnt beat out EQ, and WOW took it to a whole nother level. Lack of housing/crafter centric loot system isnt the issues that have faced this game. In no order Rubber banding Claiming a good PVP game for folks into that type of gaming when it sucked. HUGE backlash. Typical MMO mainstays....group finders, Custom UIs, etc Lack of end game content. Too short to max lvl for most causing nothing to do at 50 Setting servers to hold very few at launch. They adjusted like 2 weeks in, but by then most had their server Communication.....they ended up firing the community manager.
BW has shot their selves in the foot the entire way, and whether B2p/F2P/stay the same, it still is sitting in much better shape than an Owen fest. The problems are being sorted, but for many, they left and arent coming back. There are quite a few of us still playing, but there would of been a bunch more if the items I listed hadnt been an issue.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget. |
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6/15/12 5:18:18 AM#193
Originally posted by mikahr The post you responded wasn't directed at you, did you notice that? ofcourse not but you jumped in anyway. I was replying to the guy who said 'themepark are not safe investment anymore' do i need to even say he is a sandbox supporter? so yes i was talking about themepark being more successful than sandbox... the post you quoted. Maybe next time stay on the context of post you quote? that way there will be less confusion for you. Good job on trying to derail what i was saying. And who are 'they' and who claimed yo get 1 mill sub? you are making no sense here. |
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6/15/12 5:31:17 AM#194
Originally posted by William12 Actually if you believe that your the one who is dillusional , i play the game and i would guess less than 100k playing now in total . |
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6/15/12 5:35:29 AM#195
Originally posted by minime2 I am not saying you are wrong or right but if you are going to call others dilusional make sure you don't do it on basis of 'guess' work. |
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erictlewis
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 11/08/08
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. |
6/15/12 5:39:52 AM#196
Originally posted by minime2 The numbers are around 60k playing according to the one thread, then they use this bogus that's only 10% of the player base. If that's true then its 600k, and I find that number to be total bs there is no way there are that many active subs. However I am like you, if they have more than 200k subs then I would be shocked. All one has to do is look at these mergers 214 servers down to possibly 20 or 16, the free to play till 15, the article talking about adding an rmt cash shop to realize that they are fixing to make some big changes, due to the fact they are not making enough on subs now. I still predict by the end of the year swtor will be free to play with a full rmt cash shop (not just fluff) items.
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6/15/12 5:54:04 AM#197
Originally posted by erictlewis Don't know if the 60k is a PCU figure (peak concurrent users) and how reliable that is, but EVE Online has figures hovering around 40-50k PCU with 350-400k subs. Usually a good, workable rule of thumb is to multiply the average PCU with 6 to get a (very rough) measure of the number of subs. That it's a very rough measure the example of EVE already proves: the number of subs is like 8 times the average PCU. |
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6/15/12 7:34:43 AM#198
If you thought SWTOR was doing well you should look at http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/15/bioware-looking-at-free-to-play-for-the-old-republic |
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MadDemon64
 Elite Member
Joined: 4/19/08
Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars? |
6/15/12 9:14:42 AM#199
Originally posted by azonic69 MMOs going free to play does not mean that they are not doing well. It just means that the people who make the game realize that with the economy the way it is, fewer and fewer people have the spare cash to pay for a monthly game subscription, so they are offering alternatives, namely by allowing people to play their games for free and allowing people buy stuff in a cash shop whenever they want, spending what they want. Besides, can you honestly say that Team Fortress 2 was doing poorly before it went f2p? Since when is Tuesday a direction? |
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6/15/12 9:16:42 AM#200
I'm delighted that this game failed, i hate EA and what they stand for as a company. |
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