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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Tor down to 200k to 300k players Left

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441 posts found
  User Deleted
6/14/12 3:09:55 PM#181
Originally posted by Sameer1979

Lol thanks for the laugh. it is nice to have dreams though..even though they are just dreams. Themeparks will always be proftable a lot more than sandbox can ever be with exception of EVE.

Keep dreaming.

Yeah, and string of failed WoW clones really support what you are saying!

  Sameer1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 385

6/14/12 3:13:03 PM#182
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Sameer1979

Lol thanks for the laugh. it is nice to have dreams though..even though they are just dreams. Themeparks will always be proftable a lot more than sandbox can ever be with exception of EVE.

Keep dreaming.

Yeah, and string of failed WoW clones really support what you are saying!

Meaning of failure is often twisted on these forums. Only because a MMO is unable to surpass WOW in subs or get equal number of subs doesn't mean it is a failure. As long as MMOS are up and running and making profit for company it is a success. No company likes to keep a MMO going with money from their own pockets. How many themepark MMOS have shut down in last 5 years? but i can tell you name of sandbox MMOS which indeed failed as in shut down servers.

  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1318

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

6/14/12 3:50:40 PM#183
Originally posted by Larsa
Originally posted by JoeyMMO
...

 Profit would mean they broke even already. ...

Break even does not matter in accounting.

Break even is something you calculate or estimate before you begin with a project, after the project the term has no value, the money you spent to develop the game is gone (search the net for "sunk costs").

A project can be profitable to continue without ever reaching break even. You've sunk the cost to produce something, in this case SWTOR. As long as the revenue you generate in a financial year is higher than the costs in that year it's profitable - no matter whether break even has been reached or not.

 If you put in more money than it's making then you're not breaking even and not making a profit. It's very simple really. Whether an accountant is interested in breaking even or not doesn't really matter. It's the investors that want to know when they're going to make their money back and then some.

If your idea of profitability is bringing in more money than it costs to keep the game open, then I guess you're not one of the people that put up the money to make TOR.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

6/14/12 3:53:10 PM#184
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Sameer1979

Lol thanks for the laugh. it is nice to have dreams though..even though they are just dreams. Themeparks will always be proftable a lot more than sandbox can ever be with exception of EVE.

Keep dreaming.

Yeah, and string of failed WoW clones really support what you are saying!

The problem is,  your definition of failure and success. If we were to adopt your point of view only WoW is a success.

  User Deleted
6/14/12 4:48:49 PM#185
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Sameer1979

Lol thanks for the laugh. it is nice to have dreams though..even though they are just dreams. Themeparks will always be proftable a lot more than sandbox can ever be with exception of EVE.

Keep dreaming.

Yeah, and string of failed WoW clones really support what you are saying!

Meaning of failure is often twisted on these forums. Only because a MMO is unable to surpass WOW in subs or get equal number of subs doesn't mean it is a failure. As long as MMOS are up and running and making profit for company it is a success. No company likes to keep a MMO going with money from their own pockets. How many themepark MMOS have shut down in last 5 years? but i can tell you name of sandbox MMOS which indeed failed as in shut down servers.

Yeah, running on vapor like Vanguard/EQ is real story of success! Im sure Funcom said: "Yeah, we will sell 1+m copies of the game, then drop to 50k in 6 months and turn game to run on 2-3 servers as F2P and brag around how successful we are!"

Surpassing WoW? Where did anyone mention that?

Success is what they define, not you. If they say "we want 1m+ subs" and dont get em its FAILURE.

Result =/= success, its the concept you seem to fail to grasp.

Really? You can name many AAA sandboxes that failed?

Proceed, im in for a bit of entertainmnent.

Oh, and btw, where did i mention sandbox anyway? Can you quote where i mentioned it? Anywhere? At all?

Originally posted by Atlan99

The problem is,  your definition of failure and success. If we were to adopt your point of view only WoW is a success.

Nope, not at all, though WoW is only AAA success (in the west)

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

6/14/12 4:56:46 PM#186

Bottomline is, that themepark MMO's manage to have achieved more sales and subs than sandbox MMO's, their peaks were higher and their subs on average were higher. Of course that's not a totally fair comparison because there haven't been many sandbox MMO's, but still, themepark MMO's seemed to have done well over the years, often with sub numbers that pre-WoW would have been regarded as a healthy business model and (more than) healthy numbers and revenues.

 

Personally, I think the best MMO design would be a themepark/sandbox hybrid, themepark elements because the mainstream playerbase obviously enjoys dev designed content, and sandbox elements to provide variety and added longevity (bc of unpredictability + randomness) in the gameplay.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

6/14/12 5:11:49 PM#187
Originally posted by mikahr
 
Originally posted by Atlan99

The problem is,  your definition of failure and success. If we were to adopt your point of view only WoW is a success.

Nope, not at all, though WoW is only AAA success (in the west)

You pretty much contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

You said no, no at all in one breath. In the next you say WoW is the only successful mmo in the west . Taking into account SWTOR subcription base and  sales. You are basically saying that  99% on the mmo's on this site are failures. You might as well as just call this site a shrine to failure.

  User Deleted
6/14/12 5:24:00 PM#188
Originally posted by Atlan99

You pretty much contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

You said no, no at all in one breath. In the next you say WoW is the only successful mmo in the west . Taking into account SWTOR subcription base and  sales. You are basically saying that  99% on the mmo's on this site are failures. You might as well as just call this site a shrine to failure.

Pretty much you are right.

Except percentage. There are many successful MMOs, and you probably never even heard of 99% of them.

But scope of this particular section of forum is SWTOR, that happens to be most expencive game in history, usually classified as AAA, and what it takes for game such as that to be successful.

And, ofcourse, again, you forgot that what success is or isnt is not yours to define. Think EA would have much to say on that particular topic. Ooops, they did say AND act on it.

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/14/12 5:57:49 PM#189
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Sameer1979

Lol thanks for the laugh. it is nice to have dreams though..even though they are just dreams. Themeparks will always be proftable a lot more than sandbox can ever be with exception of EVE.

Keep dreaming.

Yeah, and string of failed WoW clones really support what you are saying!

Meaning of failure is often twisted on these forums. Only because a MMO is unable to surpass WOW in subs or get equal number of subs doesn't mean it is a failure. As long as MMOS are up and running and making profit for company it is a success. No company likes to keep a MMO going with money from their own pockets. How many themepark MMOS have shut down in last 5 years? but i can tell you name of sandbox MMOS which indeed failed as in shut down servers.

Yeah, running on vapor like Vanguard/EQ is real story of success! Im sure Funcom said: "Yeah, we will sell 1+m copies of the game, then drop to 50k in 6 months and turn game to run on 2-3 servers as F2P and brag around how successful we are!"

Surpassing WoW? Where did anyone mention that?

Success is what they define, not you. If they say "we want 1m+ subs" and dont get em its FAILURE.

Result =/= success, its the concept you seem to fail to grasp.

Really? You can name many AAA sandboxes that failed?

Proceed, im in for a bit of entertainmnent.

Oh, and btw, where did i mention sandbox anyway? Can you quote where i mentioned it? Anywhere? At all?

Originally posted by Atlan99

The problem is,  your definition of failure and success. If we were to adopt your point of view only WoW is a success.

Nope, not at all, though WoW is only AAA success (in the west)

You bring up EQ, and not a single sandbox has pulled in the NA numbers EQ did back before WOW launched. 8 yrs, and sandboxes still cant top 450k NA subs?

 

Spin some more....this is good.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5917

6/14/12 6:58:25 PM#190
Originally posted by eycel

Maybee if they add, say...bears with lazersss the subs will return once again. :)

 

nope. isnt that the same thing Blizzard is doing with MoP?

  BullseyeArc1

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/08
Posts: 416

6/14/12 7:42:28 PM#191
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by BigHatLogan
No need to pan handle now.  SWTOR has shown that themeparks are not a safe investment, and now maybe some devs will be more willing to take risks.   And even if I am wrong here, and the bean counters will never ever ever ever ever ever agree to make a sandbox game, it doesn't change just how bad a game SWTOR is.   At the very least developers will think twice about cloning WoW.  And why would I want to get over myself when I'm so great?

Lol thanks for the laugh. it is nice to have dreams though..even though they are just dreams. Themeparks will always be proftable a lot more than sandbox can ever be with exception of EVE.

Keep dreaming.

KOTOR was the wrong themepark, people want Vader, Han, Luke and Lea.   Thier biggest mistake was not the theme but not rounding out the game, you need a little sandbox in it to make people happy.    That was the single most disapointing thing for me, no place I could call my own.   Having a bank in your ship and calling it customizable is marketing lies.   

The single best feature that SOE had going for its games is housing and item placement in the housing.   Second best thing SOE does is crafting, SWG had the best crafting and resource gathering system ever in any MMO.    Another thing that disapoints me is that the worlds are theme park roller coasters.     They dont look alive and are completly static spawns.    Maybe its me but the open world map is the way to go.    Random spawns make the map look and feel like the game is changing.       

You can pick out alot of the good points of all the MMO's and it amazes me that the developers arnt designing games that people want.    I hated the NGE but damn was the pvp fun.    Whoever blends a themepark and a sandbox and gets it right will be the next king of the hill.

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/14/12 11:47:56 PM#192
Originally posted by BullseyeArc1
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by BigHatLogan
No need to pan handle now.  SWTOR has shown that themeparks are not a safe investment, and now maybe some devs will be more willing to take risks.   And even if I am wrong here, and the bean counters will never ever ever ever ever ever agree to make a sandbox game, it doesn't change just how bad a game SWTOR is.   At the very least developers will think twice about cloning WoW.  And why would I want to get over myself when I'm so great?

Lol thanks for the laugh. it is nice to have dreams though..even though they are just dreams. Themeparks will always be proftable a lot more than sandbox can ever be with exception of EVE.

Keep dreaming.

KOTOR was the wrong themepark, people want Vader, Han, Luke and Lea.   Thier biggest mistake was not the theme but not rounding out the game, you need a little sandbox in it to make people happy.    That was the single most disapointing thing for me, no place I could call my own.   Having a bank in your ship and calling it customizable is marketing lies.   

The single best feature that SOE had going for its games is housing and item placement in the housing.   Second best thing SOE does is crafting, SWG had the best crafting and resource gathering system ever in any MMO.    Another thing that disapoints me is that the worlds are theme park roller coasters.     They dont look alive and are completly static spawns.    Maybe its me but the open world map is the way to go.    Random spawns make the map look and feel like the game is changing.       

You can pick out alot of the good points of all the MMO's and it amazes me that the developers arnt designing games that people want.    I hated the NGE but damn was the pvp fun.    Whoever blends a themepark and a sandbox and gets it right will be the next king of the hill.

Give it a rest would ya?

 

SWG couldnt beat out EQ, and WOW took it to a whole nother level. Lack of housing/crafter centric loot system isnt the issues that have faced this game.

In no order

Rubber banding

Claiming a good PVP game for folks into that type of gaming when it sucked. HUGE backlash.

Typical MMO mainstays....group finders, Custom UIs, etc

Lack of end game content. Too short to max lvl for most causing nothing to do at 50

Setting servers to hold very few at launch. They adjusted like 2 weeks in, but by then most had their server

Communication.....they ended up firing the community manager.

 

 

BW has shot their selves in the foot the entire way, and whether B2p/F2P/stay the same, it still is sitting in much better shape than an Owen fest. The problems are being sorted, but for many, they left and arent coming back. There are quite a few of us still playing, but there would of been a bunch more if the items I listed hadnt been an issue.

 

 

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  Sameer1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 385

6/15/12 5:18:18 AM#193
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Sameer1979

Lol thanks for the laugh. it is nice to have dreams though..even though they are just dreams. Themeparks will always be proftable a lot more than sandbox can ever be with exception of EVE.

Keep dreaming.

Yeah, and string of failed WoW clones really support what you are saying!

Meaning of failure is often twisted on these forums. Only because a MMO is unable to surpass WOW in subs or get equal number of subs doesn't mean it is a failure. As long as MMOS are up and running and making profit for company it is a success. No company likes to keep a MMO going with money from their own pockets. How many themepark MMOS have shut down in last 5 years? but i can tell you name of sandbox MMOS which indeed failed as in shut down servers.

Yeah, running on vapor like Vanguard/EQ is real story of success! Im sure Funcom said: "Yeah, we will sell 1+m copies of the game, then drop to 50k in 6 months and turn game to run on 2-3 servers as F2P and brag around how successful we are!"

Surpassing WoW? Where did anyone mention that?

Success is what they define, not you. If they say "we want 1m+ subs" and dont get em its FAILURE.

Result =/= success, its the concept you seem to fail to grasp.

Really? You can name many AAA sandboxes that failed?

Proceed, im in for a bit of entertainmnent.

Oh, and btw, where did i mention sandbox anyway? Can you quote where i mentioned it? Anywhere? At all?

Originally posted by Atlan99

The problem is,  your definition of failure and success. If we were to adopt your point of view only WoW is a success.

Nope, not at all, though WoW is only AAA success (in the west)

The post you responded wasn't directed at you, did you notice that? ofcourse not but you jumped in anyway. I was replying to the guy who said 'themepark are not safe investment anymore' do i need to even say he is a sandbox supporter? so yes i was talking about themepark being more successful than sandbox... the post you quoted. Maybe next time stay on the context of post you quote? that way there will be less confusion for you. Good  job on trying to derail what i was saying.

And who are 'they' and who claimed yo get 1 mill sub? you are making no sense here.

  minime2

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 116

6/15/12 5:31:17 AM#194
Originally posted by William12

If you really believe they only have 200k players left you're biased and dillusional.  Does it have 1.3 mil ?  No way but 200k ?   Ill take the middle and bet around 500-600k.

Actually if you believe that your the one who is dillusional ,  i play the game and i would guess less than 100k playing now in total .

  Sameer1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 385

6/15/12 5:35:29 AM#195
Originally posted by minime2
Originally posted by William12

If you really believe they only have 200k players left you're biased and dillusional.  Does it have 1.3 mil ?  No way but 200k ?   Ill take the middle and bet around 500-600k.

Actually if you believe that your the one who is dillusional ,  i play the game and i would guess less than 100k playing now in total .

I am not saying you are wrong or right but if you are going to call others dilusional make sure you don't do it on basis of 'guess' work.

  erictlewis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

6/15/12 5:39:52 AM#196
Originally posted by minime2
Originally posted by William12

If you really believe they only have 200k players left you're biased and dillusional.  Does it have 1.3 mil ?  No way but 200k ?   Ill take the middle and bet around 500-600k.

Actually if you believe that your the one who is dillusional ,  i play the game and i would guess less than 100k playing now in total .

The numbers are around 60k playing according to the one thread, then they use this bogus that's only 10% of the player base. If that's true then its 600k, and I find that number to be total bs there is no way there are that many active subs. However I am like you, if they have more than 200k subs then I would be shocked. 

All one has to do is look at these mergers 214 servers down to possibly 20 or 16,  the free to play till 15,  the article talking about adding an rmt cash shop to realize that they are fixing to make some big changes, due to the fact they  are not making enough on subs now.

I still predict by the end of the year swtor will be free to play with a full rmt cash shop (not just fluff) items.

 

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

6/15/12 5:54:04 AM#197
Originally posted by erictlewis

The numbers are around 60k playing according to the one thread, then they use this bogus that's only 10% of the player base. If that's true then its 600k, and I find that number to be total bs there is no way there are that many active subs. However I am like you, if they have more than 200k subs then I would be shocked. 

Don't know if the 60k is a PCU figure (peak concurrent users) and how reliable that is, but EVE Online has figures hovering around 40-50k PCU with 350-400k subs.

Usually a good, workable rule of thumb is to multiply the average PCU with 6 to get a (very rough) measure of the number of subs.

That it's a very rough measure the example of EVE already proves: the number of subs is like 8 times the average PCU.

  azonic69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 56

6/15/12 7:34:43 AM#198
  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1067

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

6/15/12 9:14:42 AM#199
Originally posted by azonic69

If you thought SWTOR was doing well you should look at

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/15/bioware-looking-at-free-to-play-for-the-old-republic

MMOs going free to play does not mean that they are not doing well.  It just means that the people who make the game realize that with the economy the way it is, fewer and fewer people have the spare cash to pay for a monthly game subscription, so they are offering alternatives, namely by allowing people to play their games for free and allowing people buy stuff in a cash shop whenever they want, spending what they want.

Besides, can you honestly say that Team Fortress 2 was doing poorly before it went f2p?

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

6/15/12 9:16:42 AM#200

I'm delighted that this game failed, i hate EA and what they stand for as a company.

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