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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Please do not destroy Elder Srolls with crappy [mod edit] graphic and combat system!

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50 posts found
  palulalula

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 679

 
OP  5/25/12 2:27:50 PM#21
Originally posted by Amana

Please don't turn this into a game versus game argument thread. The discussion itself is fine if it's civil.  I've edited the title and post to be less inflammatory.  Try not to let things get out of hand.

Ok, sorry :)

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

5/25/12 2:51:50 PM#22

You'd prefer it to be a MO/DF clone? -If so, you might want inject some quality in there somewhere.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/25/12 2:54:59 PM#23
Apparently skyrim has ffa pvp just like mo and df.
  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

5/25/12 2:59:48 PM#24

Someone needs to analyze the game and see that there's no way you can make a "Skyrim but MMO". Same childish philosophy as "Lets put missiles on it". ... Give me a break.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  busdriver

Novice Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 923

5/26/12 2:06:56 AM#25
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Apparently skyrim has ffa pvp just like mo and df.

Apparently you are unable to make a post that's worth a shit.

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

5/28/12 8:10:26 PM#26
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by gladosrev2
Originally posted by palulalula

Where is this going?? Now we will have same guild wars2 graphic and combat syastem in Oblivion online. That game looks not like Skyrim at all and not even as second part of Elder saga, it is more like guild wars 2 clone. [mod edit]. It has huge potential and his own lore.

[mod edit]

 

That's what I thought too. Further, you can't expect a smooth running MMORPG with Skyrim art, and include much else in the game. I actually think their art is what I'd want or expect.

It's the game design that I have a problem with, not the art.

I call BS on this.  Where do people get the idea that Skyrim is graphically demanding.  5 year old cards will run this thing with almost no difficulty.  It's DX9 for crying out loud.

I happen to like the "big picture" of the Skyrim world, but the idea that this is a graphically demanding game and that this would impact MMO development..... don't buy it.

We don't need a CRYSIS style MMO graphics with an Unreal 4 engine that looks to make your system its b***h.  But I really can't sign onto the idea that MMOs must have minimialist graphics, looking no more better or detailed than they were almost 10 years ago.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17601

5/28/12 8:20:09 PM#27
Originally posted by iceman00
 

I call BS on this.  Where do people get the idea that Skyrim is graphically demanding.  5 year old cards will run this thing with almost no difficulty.  It's DX9 for crying out loud.

I happen to like the "big picture" of the Skyrim world, but the idea that this is a graphically demanding game and that this would impact MMO development..... don't buy it.

We don't need a CRYSIS style MMO graphics with an Unreal 4 engine that looks to make your system its b***h.  But I really can't sign onto the idea that MMOs must have minimialist graphics, looking no more better or detailed than they were almost 10 years ago.

Nah, it is a graphically demanding game for many systems. Heck, my system runs it like butter but I put in an older card when I was doing some testing and realized that the game did not run smoothly with the older card. My roommate bought a brand new laptop which runs the game reasonably fine but not as smooth and responsive as my machine at high settings.

Look at games like Tera or Conan. They look great but I do know that at highest settings, during an invasion event, my machine as well as many others couldn't handle it. And I have a very good machine. Start putting in huge battles with many hundreds on either side and I suspect there would be some issues.

mmo's can look good but you do lose a bit if they have "amazing graphics". as far as how many events you can have going on at the same time on the same screen.

  lifesbrink

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/09
Posts: 554

There are 2 kinds of people in the world: those who don't like dragons and those who enjoy living.

5/28/12 8:43:48 PM#28

Just so everyone knows, Palu is a well-known troll on MMORPG, just ignore him inciting, report him if needed, and move on.

My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 956

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

5/28/12 8:59:34 PM#29

I can't name specifics, which I realize allows people to consider this information fraudulent, but I know someone working for the ES:O development team. Everything that we've discussed; the fact that this game is missing a huge opportunity to bring the ES series, with all that makes it unique, into a multiplayer environment; that they're taking a safe bet on a product by making a mainstream MMO with all of the themepark trappings and focus upon single player stories; the entire launch being aimed at a group of fans other than those who traditionally play the single player games; that they're using a highly evolved and modified version of the Hero engine: it's all true. From what I gather, most of them wouldn't even debate these issues, and in speaking with the individual I know they would argue that it wouldn't matter the time in which the project began development, or who was creating it, because no company in the business is willing to risk assets on something that hasn't been tried before. Personally, I think it's a tired excuse that's been regurgitated ad nauseum.

 

Essentially, I was told that they realize they're missing an opportunity, but they don't care because they want to expand the ES market beyond the SRPG audience. I was also told that they believe the mechanics for combat and PvP are going to be so masterful and innovative that people won't care that the initial design focuses upon quest hubbing, a gear grind or end game content, though the information I received regarding details were vague at best. I'm certainly willing to try it before I completely condemn the product any further, but I think everyone in their right mind realizes what this is. Even worse, single player fans like myself are simply left feeling betrayed, no matter the reasoning behind their development.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

5/29/12 11:54:45 AM#30
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

I can't name specifics, which I realize allows people to consider this information fraudulent, but I know someone working for the ES:O development team. Everything that we've discussed; the fact that this game is missing a huge opportunity to bring the ES series, with all that makes it unique, into a multiplayer environment; that they're taking a safe bet on a product by making a mainstream MMO with all of the themepark trappings and focus upon single player stories; the entire launch being aimed at a group of fans other than those who traditionally play the single player games; that they're using a highly evolved and modified version of the Hero engine: it's all true. From what I gather, most of them wouldn't even debate these issues, and in speaking with the individual I know he would argue that it wouldn't matter the time in which the project began development, or who was creating it, because no company in the business is willing to risk assets on something that hasn't been tried before. Personally, I think it's a tired excuse that's been regurgitated ad nauseum.

 

Essentially, I was told that they realize they're missing an opportunity, but they don't care because they want to expand the ES market beyond the SRPG audience. I was also told that they believe the mechanics for combat and PvP are going to be so masterful and innovative that people won't care that the initial design focuses upon quest hubbing, a gear grind or end game content, though the information I received regarding details were vague at best. I'm certainly willing to try it before I completely condemn the product any further, but I think everyone in their right mind realizes what this is. Even worse, single player fans like myself are simply left feeling betrayed, no matter the reasoning behind their development.

 Herein, in my opinion, is the big problem.

We've got to stop "trying" them, if we're ever going to actually have a voice, and initiate some form of change.  I'm an ES fan, I don't need to try it to know that it's not being marketted directly for me, but for another group.  What they're counting on though is that as an ES fan I'll at least try it, find it a good game, and maybe sub for a few months.  In the minimum, I would have at least paid for a box or digital download, and at least that's something.

It's got to stop. 

This is, in part, why the genre isn't diversifying like the rest of the game industry.  Who cares if you can get 2 million people to buy it, and only 500k to stick around for the long haul.  So be it, it's no worse then any other game in the genre then, and you don't need millions to stay subbed for the model to turn a profit.  They understand this, better then most gamers. 

If it didn't work, they wouldn't do it, and we allow it to work. 

ZeniMedia may not be publicly traded, but they still have investors with stake in the company, a board of directors, and their bottom line is all about maximizing profits.  If you keep giving them slack, they will keep taking it, and they won't stop until the genre becomes so saturated that no one can succeed in it. 

What we'll continue to get is the same old same old, with a pitch that it's the only way to do it; while the only people who know you can do it diffierent will be the guys who don't have the resources to be successful and stand out.

I'm not happy with what they're doing, but i"m willing to try it, is sending the wrong message.  They'd rather get something then nothing, and as long as you're willing to give them something they'll just keep on taking.

 

 

Yes, I"m well aware that I'm on a soapbox, riding a high horse, and I don't care.  Frankly I'm sick of being told something isn't possible when I've seen it done.  I'm tired of being told that my playstyle isn't worth catering to when I know it is. 

This game should be the premiere, fantasy, sandbox mmo that changes the way MMO's are made.  Instead a lawyer and some media moguls decided take advantage of the IP to follow the herd of games that have more in common with each other then they do not.

I don't care what game you want to compare it to, what game you think it plays like or even looks like.  GW2, ToR, WoW, EQ, DAoC, it doesn't matter.  In the end they're all just a variation of the exact same game.  Small differences here and there do not make them stand out, they only serve to get lots of people to "try" them. 

Right down to the free trials.  They're nothing more then a promotional means to get more people onto the server so that they can pad numbers and make it look like more people are playing, in an effort to draw in more people who want to know that lots of other people are playing it before they go out and buy it.  How many times do we need to see a company release numbers, and then find included all the free trials in there "playerbase". 

 

 

Cynicism?  Maybe,  Honesty?  Absolutely.

  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 956

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

5/29/12 12:09:42 PM#31
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

I can't name specifics, which I realize allows people to consider this information fraudulent, but I know someone working for the ES:O development team.

*edited for length*

 Herein, in my opinion, is the big problem.

*edited for length*

I don't disagree with you at all. A serious issue within the MMO audience has been the shift from longevity of subscription to box sales, resulting in games that are ultimately shallow in comparison to projects in the extremes of over fifteen years old. It's not worth disputing, because I feel the same way.

 

However, my problem with this sentiment is that I have to play it somewhere in order to place any credibility upon my judgement. Sure, I can see what it is, I think it's blatantly obvious what ES:O is setting out to do, and if I were someone who didn't care about games or the enthusiast press, I probably wouldn't bother. I do care, though, and I like to have an educated opinion. A large portion of educating yourself is learning from experience.

 

Trust me, I'm not personally planning to pay for the experience, and I'd suggest that anyone seriously interested in ES:O find a way to try it without paying, such as through a beta program or through some form of convention.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1123

5/29/12 1:04:55 PM#32
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

I can't name specifics, which I realize allows people to consider this information fraudulent, but I know someone working for the ES:O development team. Everything that we've discussed; the fact that this game is missing a huge opportunity to bring the ES series, with all that makes it unique, into a multiplayer environment; that they're taking a safe bet on a product by making a mainstream MMO with all of the themepark trappings and focus upon single player stories; the entire launch being aimed at a group of fans other than those who traditionally play the single player games; that they're using a highly evolved and modified version of the Hero engine: it's all true. From what I gather, most of them wouldn't even debate these issues, and in speaking with the individual I know he would argue that it wouldn't matter the time in which the project began development, or who was creating it, because no company in the business is willing to risk assets on something that hasn't been tried before. Personally, I think it's a tired excuse that's been regurgitated ad nauseum.

 

Essentially, I was told that they realize they're missing an opportunity, but they don't care because they want to expand the ES market beyond the SRPG audience. I was also told that they believe the mechanics for combat and PvP are going to be so masterful and innovative that people won't care that the initial design focuses upon quest hubbing, a gear grind or end game content, though the information I received regarding details were vague at best. I'm certainly willing to try it before I completely condemn the product any further, but I think everyone in their right mind realizes what this is. Even worse, single player fans like myself are simply left feeling betrayed, no matter the reasoning behind their development.

So instead they are willing to risk assets on something that has been tried too many times yet has only greatly succeeded (WoW) ONCE. All others have been mediocre or a complete fail .

 

Hubris thy name is FAIL

 

Good lord this is tragic.

Zenimax and Matt Firor are going to be wearing a Lead Albatross around their necks with this one.

 

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1123

5/29/12 1:13:45 PM#33
Originally posted by Uhwop

 Herein, in my opinion, is the big problem.

We've got to stop "trying" them, if we're ever going to actually have a voice, and initiate some form of change.  I'm an ES fan, I don't need to try it to know that it's not being marketted directly for me, but for another group.  What they're counting on though is that as an ES fan I'll at least try it, find it a good game, and maybe sub for a few months.  In the minimum, I would have at least paid for a box or digital download, and at least that's something.

It's got to stop. 

This is, in part, why the genre isn't diversifying like the rest of the game industry.  Who cares if you can get 2 million people to buy it, and only 500k to stick around for the long haul.  So be it, it's no worse then any other game in the genre then, and you don't need millions to stay subbed for the model to turn a profit.  They understand this, better then most gamers. 

If it didn't work, they wouldn't do it, and we allow it to work. 

ZeniMedia may not be publicly traded, but they still have investors with stake in the company, a board of directors, and their bottom line is all about maximizing profits.  If you keep giving them slack, they will keep taking it, and they won't stop until the genre becomes so saturated that no one can succeed in it. 

What we'll continue to get is the same old same old, with a pitch that it's the only way to do it; while the only people who know you can do it diffierent will be the guys who don't have the resources to be successful and stand out.

I'm not happy with what they're doing, but i"m willing to try it, is sending the wrong message.  They'd rather get something then nothing, and as long as you're willing to give them something they'll just keep on taking.

 

 

Yes, I"m well aware that I'm on a soapbox, riding a high horse, and I don't care.  Frankly I'm sick of being told something isn't possible when I've seen it done.  I'm tired of being told that my playstyle isn't worth catering to when I know it is. 

This game should be the premiere, fantasy, sandbox mmo that changes the way MMO's are made.  Instead a lawyer and some media moguls decided take advantage of the IP to follow the herd of games that have more in common with each other then they do not.

I don't care what game you want to compare it to, what game you think it plays like or even looks like.  GW2, ToR, WoW, EQ, DAoC, it doesn't matter.  In the end they're all just a variation of the exact same game.  Small differences here and there do not make them stand out, they only serve to get lots of people to "try" them. 

Right down to the free trials.  They're nothing more then a promotional means to get more people onto the server so that they can pad numbers and make it look like more people are playing, in an effort to draw in more people who want to know that lots of other people are playing it before they go out and buy it.  How many times do we need to see a company release numbers, and then find included all the free trials in there "playerbase". 

 

 

Cynicism?  Maybe,  Honesty?  Absolutely.

That was beautiful. Couldnt have said it better

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

5/29/12 1:14:27 PM#34
Originally posted by Lawlmonster
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

I can't name specifics, which I realize allows people to consider this information fraudulent, but I know someone working for the ES:O development team.

*edited for length*

 Herein, in my opinion, is the big problem.

*edited for length*

I don't disagree with you at all. A serious issue within the MMO audience has been the shift from longevity of subscription to box sales, resulting in games that are ultimately shallow in comparison to projects in the extremes of over fifteen years old. It's not worth disputing, because I feel the same way.

 

However, my problem with this sentiment is that I have to play it somewhere in order to place any credibility upon my judgement. Sure, I can see what it is, I think it's blatantly obvious what ES:O is setting out to do, and if I were someone who didn't care about games or the enthusiast press, I probably wouldn't bother. I do care, though, and I like to have an educated opinion. A large portion of educating yourself is learning from experience.

 

Trust me, I'm not personally planning to pay for the experience, and I'd suggest that anyone seriously interested in ES:O find a way to try it without paying, such as through a beta program or through some form of convention.

 I know.  I wasn't really so much directing it specifically at you or anything.  It was more like my own little narrative of US consumerism in general.

It's like, everywhere I turn it's people bitching about this company and that company. 

You at least openly admit, you're willing to at least try it.  That's fair enough.  But I know that there a bunch of people, far more in fact then is good for the genre, who are tired of getting force fed the same crap over and over, and voice their opinion, but not have a real voice.

It's like all the people that are like, oh well democrats and republicans are all the same, but I'm going to vote for the lesser of two evils.  Yeah, you're saying a whole lot, but you're not actually speaking.

This is one of the market were we, as the consumer, have it the easiest when it comes to impacting what developers give us.  Yet, we don't take advantage of it.

Even this site it itself doesn't really speak from the perspective of the gamer.  They review tera, and they point out it's great parts, but openly admits that it's more of the same; with something slightly different.  Don't take that wrong TERA fans, I'm not bashing the game or saying I don't agree with MMORPG with their review or anything.

It's just that, the first article written was very clearly experessing what every ES fan thought.  This was going to be a sandbox MMO, and it was going to be backed by a company that had the resources to actually produce a real game.  It could change the MMO genre.  And that was written based on the announcement.  Then there's the next article.  Maybe it ws just me, but it came across as cheerleading for the 3 faction pvp.

I'm not saying MMORPG has any responsibility outside of advertising, generating traffic to drive advertising, and entertaining us.  However, they're more then just people who write about games, they're gamers as well.  They are representatives of this genre.  It would nice to see them spreading our voice, getting the message out there, and telling the industry that we'd like new, and if you give it to use we'll reward you.

 

 

Seriously though.  Want a prediction? 

All the studios with the resources that just keep following the herds of mass produced, same old same old games, are goign to be sitting back thinking they did good.  Then blzzards going to come out with an MMO that isn't the same as WoW, that isn't just another take on DAoC, that isn't all about playing through a single player story line, and millions of people are going to flock to it.   Blizzard could be working on a sandbox MMO right now, while the rest of the industry is trying to compete in a market of unoriginality.

And they're all, like they are right now, going to be playing catch up. 

Most copanies just can't envision success that they can't see. 

We need to be louder, and let our wallets speak with us.  And it would be nice if some of the game sites would start speaking up as well.  I know they have people working for them that feel exactly like I do.  Be our voice, write articles, blog it, spotlight it, put out editorials, and stop giving passes beause the game has something slightly different in it.

 

More ranting, I know.  I apologize.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/29/12 1:33:22 PM#35
Blizzards new mmo will be a planetside clone
  Lawlmonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 956

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

5/29/12 2:18:22 PM#36
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by Lawlmonster

I can't name specifics, which I realize allows people to consider this information fraudulent, but I know someone working for the ES:O development team.

*edited for length*

So instead they are willing to risk assets on something that has been tried too many times yet has only greatly succeeded (WoW) ONCE. All others have been mediocre or a complete fail .

 

Hubris thy name is FAIL

 

Good lord this is tragic.

Zenimax and Matt Firor are going to be wearing a Lead Albatross around their necks with this one.

 

Yeah, I'm very disappointed, even moreso after having the conversation I posted about, because it was pretty clear to me that the missed opportunity had been realized by their design and development team.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/29/12 2:21:07 PM#37

Who cares if it looks like GW2, SWTOR or WoW....it does NOT look like TES games.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Kinchyle

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 286

5/29/12 2:23:27 PM#38

STILL arguing over things which you people know nothing of huh?

 

I just don't get it. How about we actually get to SEE something before you people rage...srsly

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

5/29/12 2:24:43 PM#39
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Blizzards new mmo will be a planetside clone

 it could very well be.  They said it was an entirely new IP and that it wouldn't be like WoW, and I'm not guessing an MMOFPS because I think they want to get starcraft FPS game out; so they may not want to venture into the FPS feild before they do.

 

But then I don't think you're serious, but just trolling, because just about every single time you post something it's "clone" this or that.  It's pretty obnoxious to be honest.

  Uhwop

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1693

5/29/12 2:35:04 PM#40
Originally posted by Kinchyle

STILL arguing over things which you people know nothing of huh?

 

I just don't get it. How about we actually get to SEE something before you people rage...srsly

 When the developrs say that the game will play like WoW, which is what they say in the GI article, what would you expect?  They said specfically that they want the game to appeal to the typical mmo gamer, so the mechanics have to resemble something they're familliar with, which is why they decided to make the game a typical MMO game.

Why do you guys keep saying we know nothing about the game, when the developers have done several interviews and the GI article was already posted all over the internet? 

http://www.gameinformer.com/p/elderscrollsonline.aspx

You can read all of the articles and watch the videos right there.  They're being very upfront about what kind of game to expect for a reason.  Because it's not going to play like an ES game, and they want people to be aware of this before they get close to launch. 

They've been very candid with the fact that it's not going to play how an ES fan would expect, but that they think it'll still be a good game.  It may very well be a good game.  Doesn't mean ES fans should be happy about it.

We don't need to "see" anything.  We only need to know what they're telling us, and they've told us a lot.

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