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News & Features Discussion  » The Elder Scrolls Online: Targeting the MMO Market

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105 posts found
  |DarK|

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 12

''Temptation corrupts, and absolute temptation corrupts absolutly''

5/26/12 9:55:16 AM#61

Honestly i think the main prob in my opinion has a TES fan, is that they are removing much of the freedom of choise inherent to all the TES games in ESO.

Forcing ppl into 3 factions depending on the race you pick ?

Having to pick classes? Common!

The thing i loved about TES (and i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one) was the freedom to make your adventurer play out how you want it. Yes the classes we created may fit into the Holy Trinity but they work like we want them to.

I'd comprehend if they made it so that you have to pick a side of the war but linking that to race choise is just too overdone in too many other MMO's.

Players crave for freedom of choise.

 

  Dredphyre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 609

fanboi of truth

5/26/12 10:23:31 AM#62
Originally posted by Kilrain
If you think about it, it's a good move. Bethesda didn't want to ruin or abandon it's single player game, so they let zinimax create a game using their lore. if you don't look at it as skyrim but as a totally new mmo, it sounds pretty f'n sweet.

No it doesn't. And your statement doesn't make sense...if this game 'sounds pretty f*n sweet' how then, could Bethesda 'ruin' it's single player game?  If the game was actually good, then Bethesda wouldn't have to worry about its name.

  BloodyViking

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/12
Posts: 122

5/27/12 6:41:42 AM#63

Whow, just whow...not often you get to attend a train leaving for a humongous obvious trainwreck like this...

I surely didnt expect Bethesda to do anything like this. How fucking stupid can they be? Someone need to step into that project and smack faces, rub them in the pile of crap that is SW:TOR.

  lifesbrink

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/09
Posts: 553

There are 2 kinds of people in the world: those who don't like dragons and those who enjoy living.

5/27/12 9:17:41 AM#64
Originally posted by Uhwop

I don't see how anyone who says they're an ES fan could read about his game and be excited for it.

I also don't see how anyone who doesn't play MMO's, but is a fan of the ES games would read about this game and want to play it.

If it's lacking all of the things that make the ES games great, why would ES fans be excited for it.  To say that because it's an MMO it has to play a certain way is a bunch of BS.  There is no unwritten rule tha says an MMO is supposed to be a linear, single player story driven, race/ faction locked, class based mmo with no real sandbox elements in it, and that's what they're making with this game.

 

I'd really like to hear the impression of the author of the first article about TESO that was written here, when the game was announced.  I got the very distinct impression that that individual very much expect an ES mmo that played much like the single player games. 

 

Now let me ask this.  How would people feel if Beth announced that they were making ES vi, but they wanted to move it into a more mainstream market so they're going to make the game play more like Dragon Age.  Instead of forging your own adventure you'll select a class with preset skills.  Instead of focusing on world development they're going to focus on Story narative.  They'll still let you explore the world, but due the class designs you may not be able to do certain content unless you level up first.  To make the game appeal to a wider audience, they're going to remove much of the fluff stuff that they think maybe people wouldn't care so much about, and instead put most of the emphasis on fighting monsters and playing through the story.  No more having a house, no more crafting, no more killing NPC's, and reducing the visuals so that they run on more machines, as well as removing most of the world interaction. 

How many ES fans would except that from Bethesda? 

 

Just because it's being made by ZeniOnlne, and just because it's an MMO, doesn't mean it's not an ES game.  When you remove all the elements that make ES, ES; including the lore that one of the devs admitted isn't even considered to be canon by the guys at Bethesda, the only thin you're left with is a game with the ES in the title and names on a map that you might be familliar with.

In the end, DAoC had far fewer followers then even SWG, people playing WoW are going to continue playing WoW, and ES fans who don't play MMO's aren't going to play a game that has next to nothing in common with the singleplayer games, they're going to wait until the ESvi releases and play it; not this.

Not even the media should be cutting them slack.  Once an ES mmo releases that is nothing but a DAoC/ ToR/ WoW ripoff, those people that have always wanted to play a real ES MMO will not get that option.  They won't make the game a second time, and we'll still be stuck with underfunded, indie developed MMO that never reach their real potential, but have more in common with ES then this game will.  That's not fair to the FANS of the game.  

 

I'm very dissapointed with the tone of this article.  3 faction pvp does not an ES mmo make.  ES is synonymous with a specific type of gameplay, and MMO's are still RPG.  There is absolutely no reason that an ES mmo could not be the sandbox mmo that EVERYONE EXPECTED when they announced they were making the game. 

This is one of the more cohesive arguments against ESO and sums up my feelings as well!

My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/27/12 9:31:02 AM#65
Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

The Elder Scrolls Online has taken the MMO community by storm with both supporters and detractors weighing in on the discussion. Devs are aimed squarely at this particular market. We take a look at why that's the goal and some of the challenges devs will face. Read on!

 I will until the day of release fight against this game that is taking one of the best RPG series ever made and bastardizing it for its name.

I will not support it. Period.

I would not support any series being taken and changed drastically. If you cannot come up with something original, dont take something known and try to make it into something it isnt...dont make anything at all, you dont even deserve to BE MAKING A GAME IF YOU CANNOT COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW.

If a hollywood stuido announced one day that they are making a Lord of the Rings TV show...and it would be a Sitcom...I WOULD BE PISSED FOR A REASON. Lord of the Rings is loved because of what it IS...not because of its NAME.

The Elder Scrolls is loved for what it IS...not because of its name. If you make massive changes to what it IS...it no longer is what it was.

The makers of TESO does not get it, because they are owned by a massive corporation wanting to make money off the NAME. Sadly, I must now sound like a whiney crybaby Star Wars fanboy pissed and George Lucas for destroying their childhoods by making slight changes to the films...STOP TAKING WHAT WE LOVE AND ROYALLY MESSING WITH IT FOR MONEY.

P.S. No, I do not hate Lucas for what he did to the films...because he didnt change the core of the films like trying to turn them into musicals.

 

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/27/12 9:38:14 AM#66
Please explain how what we know of TESO makes it sound like Tortanic?

Perhaps its the no quest hubs,
Or the no tanks & agro,
Or the fully open world,
Or the open dungeons,
Or the tes crafting systems?
Or the grind mini games for tokens pvp?
Or the outdoor realm level raid bosses?
Or the exploration based gameplay?
Or the being built by experienced mmo devs rather the sprg devs?
Or not using hero engine?

Yeah probably a few of those
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/27/12 9:39:42 AM#67
Meant not grind mini games for tokens pvp
  GreenishBlue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/12
Posts: 266

5/27/12 9:46:07 AM#68

Even the single player games are suffering from dumbing-down and RPG elements removal. In Skyrim one can't customize characters a la Morrowind. At the dumbing-down rate TES is going, they might end up doing FPS to cater to the CoD crowd. In my opinion, TESO is going to be a cash grab from box sales. I hope I am wrong. I like argonians and having the option to start in Black Marsh would be a dream come true.

  User Deleted
5/27/12 9:47:59 AM#69
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Please explain how what we know of TESO makes it sound like Tortanic?

Perhaps its the no quest hubs,
Or the no tanks & agro,
Or the fully open world,
Or the open dungeons,
Or the tes crafting systems?
Or the grind mini games for tokens pvp?
Or the outdoor realm level raid bosses?
Or the exploration based gameplay?
Or the being built by experienced mmo devs rather the sprg devs?
Or not using hero engine?

Yeah probably a few of those

It doesn't. People are just upset that it's not a traditional Elder Scrolls game on mmo, so they call it wow clone. Like i already, i'm not happy about it either, specially with more "personal" story coming into mmorpg, but it's defenatly not TOR 2.0. Truth is, the ideas behind this game are actually awesome, it's just put down by the fact that it's TES.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/27/12 9:55:52 AM#70
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

It doesn't. People are just upset that it's not a traditional Elder Scrolls game on mmo

 I know, the very idea that a fan of a series would become upset that the name is being used on something else...

I mean, why would a fan of Diablo get pissed if a Diablo racing game came out. Or a fan of the Sims get pissed if a Sims dancing game came out...how about a Starcraft Mario style side scroller!

Perhaps the people backing this idea are big Nintendo players and are just used to having their games bastardized. Super Mario, Mario Cart, Mario golf, Mario Tennis, Mario pinball, Mario puzzle...complete lack of originality leading to requiring tagging something familar onto it to get it to sell.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Dhraal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/09
Posts: 40

5/27/12 12:29:45 PM#71

An elder scrolls game without housing? With wow-type combat? Realy?

 

I am so tired of the wow formular. The game was fun for a few years. I know that I can not expect for a game to be freash and fun after 7 years. But I need something new. I played the WoW with lightsabers, it had at least some nice story and a different setting. But I am already bored. I decided to not play wow-clones anymore. And I don't need fantasy based wow clones. 

 

I liked Skyrim. TESO could be great if the developers are brave, but after all I read yet I don't expect it. 

 

 

 

  Finbar

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/03
Posts: 193

Let them hear my utter and complete lack of a voice. - Waking Life

5/27/12 6:50:52 PM#72

Sigh...its bad that I love the Elder Scrolls franchise so much that this whole concept stresses me out :) 

FINBAR
-------------------------------------------

  MyBoot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/25/12
Posts: 132

5/27/12 9:46:19 PM#73
Originally posted by DicksOnFire

Bethesda's not making the game though, it's being deveolped by Zenimax Online Studios. 

Zenimax owns Bethesda so I dont really see the issue there ?

  lifesbrink

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/09
Posts: 553

There are 2 kinds of people in the world: those who don't like dragons and those who enjoy living.

5/28/12 12:18:05 AM#74
Originally posted by MyBoot
Originally posted by DicksOnFire

Bethesda's not making the game though, it's being deveolped by Zenimax Online Studios. 

Zenimax owns Bethesda so I dont really see the issue there ?

The issue is that this game will have the Elder Scrolls name, but not gameplay.

My blog is a continuing story of what MMO's should be like.

  Mavek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/10
Posts: 142

5/28/12 10:06:36 AM#75
Originally posted by lifesbrink
Originally posted by MyBoot
Originally posted by DicksOnFire

Bethesda's not making the game though, it's being deveolped by Zenimax Online Studios. 

Zenimax owns Bethesda so I dont really see the issue there ?

The issue is that this game will have the Elder Scrolls name, but not gameplay.

Lifebrink is correct.  Bethesda is responsible for the epic singleplayer TES rpgs while Zenimax has no relation to it.  Just because Zenimax is the parent company does not mean that they and bethesda and one in the same.

 

Now what this means is that Zenimax will produce an entirely different formula for the game and has only contacted Bethesda about lore (but when you're making a game in the past you can literally make up pretty much anything).  Zenimax are Betheda are not cooperatively creating this game, only Zenimax is developing it.  Which in turn is why this game will be unrecognizable to those who have played TES single player rpgs.

 

My wish is that I could have the customizabiltiy of Morrowind back.  Hell i would take morrwind as a cooperative online rpg.  That game had so much depth to it and the following TES games all became slightly more linear.  Not that i'm saying skyrim is a linear themepark but it has less customization for your character than morrowind had.

 

All in all every TES fan has the right to be upset with the direction this game is going, and I for one am truly disgusted.  But, considering it is this far into development and nothing we can say/do will change anything, we have to accept what we know and hope Zenimax creates a truly fantastic game that is worthy of being a AAA mmo.

 
  Comaf

Elite Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1089

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

5/28/12 10:45:38 AM#76
Originally posted by dimasok
As long as its not a WoW clone like SWToR ill be happy. Give me DAOC type RvR as well as decent dynamic combat quests, good combat (mounted too) and a live community and ill be all over it

Absolutely!  I'll agree to that.  I'll happily ignore the morons that call this a theme park clone, yet ignore (a) the classes are different in each faction - ever seen that before? (b) there are three factions - other than Dark Age, where have you seen that in a medieval fantasy mmorpg?

 

All these people complaining here are the same folks who put SW:TOR and GW2 on a pedestal.  They are the first to overhype a cheese mmorpg project that has nothing new to offer the genre.  Then, along comes ESO, and suddenly these folks become a vocal community.  What are you all afraid of?  Afraid that three faction mmorpg with NO mirrored classes will kick the living crap out of all the other titles?

 

Get used to it.  Dark Age of Camelot has 24 races and 44 classes across three uniquely different realms.  They lifted the bar higher than the theme parked Rift, or video game designed GW2 could ever imagine.  Now ESO will fulfill what many of us knew could be done in 2001.

 

 

  Comaf

Elite Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1089

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

5/28/12 10:58:56 AM#77

Matt Firor
 

 

For all you Dark Age of Camelot fans (including myself), this name should ring a bell.  The very fact that the man who helped developed the first few years of Dark Age of Camelot, Matt Firor, is here as lead producer on this project -  just floors me.  I never could have imagined that this would come to pass.

 

Many of us in the daoc community over the years have even joked about how amazing it would be to see DAoC with Elder Scrolls concepts and graphics.  And lo and behold, here we are.

 

I can only imagine the stacks of folks who work for other mmorpg titles who are shaking in their boots right now.  Remember, true believers, Dark Age of Camelot was such a threat to the industry (because of how it was conceptualized), that it had to be bought and buried by Electronic Arts.  There was such a worry that Dark Age gamers would leave Warhammer (if there was even so much as an ounce of improvement on the old venerable title), that even when Mythic announced that Dark Age of Camelot would have  a new server (Origin), even THAT got shut down.  There was never any mention later on and since, as to why a server that a majority of the player base voted for, was not put into effect.  Disgusting, really. 

 

By 2009, shortly after the EA buyout of Mythic, a number of Mythic staff were canned.  Warhammer heralded in, with its investors thinking that with Dark Age swept under a rug, there would be plenty of fans shifting to this title.  That of course, happened for just long enough for the DAoC'ers to see that Warhammer was not up to DAoC expectations. 

 

WIth ESO, we will finally get what all of us Dark Age gamers knew was possible all along: a graphically detailed, immersive world, set in Bethesda's Elder Scrolls lore, with the same level of intelligence that formed the varying classes and races of the 3 faction ground breaker that was Dark Age.

 

For folks who are bashing this title (boggles me), why not support the fact that so few developers have the vision and intelligence to go three faction with unique (and here's the key, this isn't just server v server v server pvp), there are unique classes and races in EACH faction.  This alone is never done. 

 

The entire problem with the industry has been its slip into mediocrity.  Why play Rift, when I can play WoW?  Why play GW2 when I can play WoW?  Why play any "new" release, when I can play an mmorpg that offers the same + more and has a far better population? 

 

Now I can say, why play WoW, if we have Elder Scrolls Online.   At last.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1106

5/28/12 11:03:54 AM#78
Originally posted by Comaf

Matt Firor
 

Lead Dev for DAOC: Trials of Atlantis

nuff said

 

Enjoy leveling your Scrolls

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

5/28/12 11:09:23 AM#79

the great politicians bretons, allied with the proud and strong redguards to put an ORC as a emperor is enough for me.....

  Brenelael

Guide

Joined: 10/19/06
Posts: 3912

Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006

5/28/12 11:09:32 AM#80
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by dimasok
As long as its not a WoW clone like SWToR ill be happy. Give me DAOC type RvR as well as decent dynamic combat quests, good combat (mounted too) and a live community and ill be all over it

Absolutely!  I'll agree to that.  I'll happily ignore the morons that call this a theme park clone, yet ignore (a) the classes are different in each faction - ever seen that before? (b) there are three factions - other than Dark Age, where have you seen that in a medieval fantasy mmorpg?

 

All these people complaining here are the same folks who put SW:TOR and GW2 on a pedestal.  They are the first to overhype a cheese mmorpg project that has nothing new to offer the genre.  Then, along comes ESO, and suddenly these folks become a vocal community.  What are you all afraid of?  Afraid that three faction mmorpg with NO mirrored classes will kick the living crap out of all the other titles?

 

Get used to it.  Dark Age of Camelot has 24 races and 44 classes across three uniquely different realms.  They lifted the bar higher than the theme parked Rift, or video game designed GW2 could ever imagine.  Now ESO will fulfill what many of us knew could be done in 2001.

 

 

People have a habbit of remembering DAoC with slightly rose tinted glasses however. The fact is even in a time when populations where counted in the hundreds of thousands DAoC was a niche game at best. At it's peak it only managed 250k subs which although profitable was still low when compared to other games of the period. Everquest alone had easily twice that or more. Using a game to model a modern MMO after that was one of the lower population games of it's time is a recipe for disaster in my honest opinion.

 

I liked DAoC as much as anyone here but I don't put it on a pedestal. They had a chance to come up with something truly unique here and they squandered it. DAoC with an Elder Scrolls paint job will not be as successful as you may think if at the most 250k DAoC fans are going to save it.  Elder Scrolls fans expect a MMO that is at it's core what made the single player games great only modified to allow for more players. A DAoC framework is the polar opposite of what fans expect. I honestly can't see how this game will be successful in a modern MMO market.

 

Bren

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{
beat();
}

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