Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by buegur

I agree with Dimasok that if it has DAoC type warfare and a good community set in the Elder Scroll universe I'll be happy enough.  The combat type doesn't bother me which way they go.

 May ask?

Combat mechanics aside, because I do agree with that idea.  It doesn't bother you that it'll be a class/ level based character progression, with quest driven leveling, an ephasis on a single player storyline that incorporates heavy use of phasing, and an engame pvp system that is doesn't really have a true purpose? (They said that the winning faction will have a ruler designated based on who contributed the most during the fighting, but that it's only a title and has no impact on the game.  The ruler is only a ruler because the game says he is, but he can't do anything in the position and it's only a "bragging right".  That's straight from the developers mouth)  As well as all the lore they're writting for the game has been admitted to not being considered canon by the guys at Bethesda.

None of that bothers you as long as it's 3 faction pvp, in the ES universe?

 

It's just bewildering to me that some people would only care about the 3 faction pvp, yet DAoC never shut down their servers.  If that's all people want, and if DAoC does it so well, why aren't people just playing DAoC then?

 

Um, Elder Scrolls is a level based progression system with the illusion of being skill based. Always has been.

 All dungeons and towns are instanced ALREADY, and have been forever. (EXCEPT IN MORROWIND -Towns were open and connected to the rest of the world -  where you could fly - BRING BACK LEVITATE).

Also, a ruler is only a ruler because the people let him be. And he doesnt have any ACTUAL power unless the people allow him to. Bascially, "bragging rights" are a core human desire.

Lore is not canon? Please, it takes place 1000 years before any Elder Scrolls game you've played. You try going back 1000 years and tell me how accurate your lore is. I promise you, what you know, is not necessarily what happened. 

People don't understand that Zenimax Online is the child company of Bethesda.. this company is basically the "Online" version of Bethesda.

[mod edit]

Uhwop, if I had my rathers I would have them design the game as I wanted, but if what I heard that this game been under development for at least a couple of years I can live with less.  If it is true they are going to release the game next year there is very little time for them to change the core features.

"It doesn't bother you that it'll be a class/ level based character progression, with quest driven leveling, an ephasis on a single player storyline that incorporates heavy use of phasing, and an engame pvp system that is doesn't really have a true purpose? "

My rathers would have a skill based, but i can live with Class/Level based.  Everything I read on the end game PvP says that it would be based on DAoC type of realm warfare where it will indeed make a small difference, so I like that.  As i liked SWTor's storylines that would tweek my interest, but of course I'm for a more open feeling that Elder Scrolls has.  I am still open and hoping that is indeed the case and the single story line is just an additional content.

"They said that the winning faction will have a ruler designated based on who contributed the most during the fighting, but that it's only a title and has no impact on the game. The ruler is only a ruler because the game says he is, but he can't do anything in the position and it's only a "bragging right".

I see this as a thrown in extra that doesn't hurt the game but adds a little favor.

"As well as all the lore they're writting for the game has been admitted to not being considered canon by the guys at Bethesda."

Unfortunately standard practice for MMO's.  We will have to wait and see how much this truely effects the game.  A few deviations won't matter to me if they get the main feel for the Elder Scroll worlds.

I think more importantly are they going to have the open feelingness of ES worlds and the multitudes of choices we have in them, such as advancing in the various guilds?  It seems to me most MMO's out there today fail in keeping our interest once we level because of a lack of depth at the top.  Add in all the extras such as working for the various guilds, meaningful RvR, communities/housing, trades that have purpose in the end games and I'm betting it will succeed even with its short comings in other areas.  The ES world has openess needed to put back the community experience back into MMO's thats been sorely lacking of late.

While I think they just gutted a beloved game and this will only be an IP sale like SWTOR there is one major concern I have with the three faction warefare.  One faction has the Nords, Argonians, and Dummers which I think many many will cater to this faction and severely imbalance the game compared to the other factions. 

While I am seeing this from my own personal taste but I think that the Dummers are a highly popular race and without the Imperials the Nords will be the most popular human type race especially since Skyrim being focused on the Nords and people have a lot of culture insight with them unlike the other races.  Argonians would be appealing as one of the non-human players.

This poll just confirms my suspicion.

This is going to be so bad. This is clearly an attempt to milk the franchise name just for the $$$$. It is going to fail big time just like The Old Republic did.

I wanted Elder Scrolls Online forever. Very disappointed in it being a wow clone.

Originally posted by kalsigur

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by buegur

I agree with Dimasok that if it has DAoC type warfare and a good community set in the Elder Scroll universe I'll be happy enough.  The combat type doesn't bother me which way they go.

 May ask?

Combat mechanics aside, because I do agree with that idea.  It doesn't bother you that it'll be a class/ level based character progression, with quest driven leveling, an ephasis on a single player storyline that incorporates heavy use of phasing, and an engame pvp system that is doesn't really have a true purpose? (They said that the winning faction will have a ruler designated based on who contributed the most during the fighting, but that it's only a title and has no impact on the game.  The ruler is only a ruler because the game says he is, but he can't do anything in the position and it's only a "bragging right".  That's straight from the developers mouth)  As well as all the lore they're writting for the game has been admitted to not being considered canon by the guys at Bethesda.

None of that bothers you as long as it's 3 faction pvp, in the ES universe?

 

It's just bewildering to me that some people would only care about the 3 faction pvp, yet DAoC never shut down their servers.  If that's all people want, and if DAoC does it so well, why aren't people just playing DAoC then?

 

Um, Elder Scrolls is a level based progression system with the illusion of being skill based. Always has been.

 All dungeons and towns are instanced ALREADY, and have been forever. (EXCEPT IN MORROWIND -Towns were open and connected to the rest of the world -  where you could fly - BRING BACK LEVITATE).

Also, a ruler is only a ruler because the people let him be. And he doesnt have any ACTUAL power unless the people allow him to. Bascially, "bragging rights" are a core human desire.

Lore is not canon? Please, it takes place 1000 years before any Elder Scrolls game you've played. You try going back 1000 years and tell me how accurate your lore is. I promise you, what you know, is not necessarily what happened. 

 

 Elders scrolls insn't class based, and it's skill up on use, with free form character development.  You know that, I know that, everyone person familliar with ES knows that.  Saying it uses levels based progression is just ignoring the entirety of how it that level based progression works. 

TESO is class and level based, and you know exactly what that means, as does everyone else.  NO free form character development.  You're locked into a class and that means you're locked into what skills you can ultimately use.  No one expected that from an announced ES game.  No one.

I would expect a ruler to do things like be able to set tax rates.  I dont' expect meaningful pvp to be a "bragging right".  How is that meaningful.

No, the lore isn't canon, they said so themselves.  One of the devs came out and said specfically that bethesda doesn't consider any of the lore in TESO to be relevant to the single player games, and that nothing write is considerd canon by bethesda.  That means that Beth can make a game in the exact same time period and the lore can be completely different.  If they tell me that, I think I'll take their word for it.

You didn't actually answer the question.  It's ok to you that the game has no real connection to the ES universe, outside of the names of landmarks being the same, that it doesn't even use the same character development as any other ES games, It's ok if the game ephasizes single player questing with heavy use of phasing, as long as it's 3 faction pvp with the ES name attacked to it?

And if all you care about is 3 faction pvp, and if DAoC is so great because of it, why not just play DAoC?

I hope it will not follow the generic path of SWTOR. ES games are beloved, dont ruin that Bethesda!

Originally posted by kalsigur

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by buegur

I agree with Dimasok that if it has DAoC type warfare and a good community set in the Elder Scroll universe I'll be happy enough.  The combat type doesn't bother me which way they go.

 May ask?

Combat mechanics aside, because I do agree with that idea.  It doesn't bother you that it'll be a class/ level based character progression, with quest driven leveling, an ephasis on a single player storyline that incorporates heavy use of phasing, and an engame pvp system that is doesn't really have a true purpose? (They said that the winning faction will have a ruler designated based on who contributed the most during the fighting, but that it's only a title and has no impact on the game.  The ruler is only a ruler because the game says he is, but he can't do anything in the position and it's only a "bragging right".  That's straight from the developers mouth)  As well as all the lore they're writting for the game has been admitted to not being considered canon by the guys at Bethesda.

None of that bothers you as long as it's 3 faction pvp, in the ES universe?

 

It's just bewildering to me that some people would only care about the 3 faction pvp, yet DAoC never shut down their servers.  If that's all people want, and if DAoC does it so well, why aren't people just playing DAoC then?

 

Um, Elder Scrolls is a level based progression system with the illusion of being skill based. Always has been.

 All dungeons and towns are instanced ALREADY, and have been forever. (EXCEPT IN MORROWIND -Towns were open and connected to the rest of the world -  where you could fly - BRING BACK LEVITATE).

Also, a ruler is only a ruler because the people let him be. And he doesnt have any ACTUAL power unless the people allow him to. Bascially, "bragging rights" are a core human desire.

Lore is not canon? Please, it takes place 1000 years before any Elder Scrolls game you've played. You try going back 1000 years and tell me how accurate your lore is. I promise you, what you know, is not necessarily what happened. 

 

The Lore being not Canon was taken from bethesda's mouth, not his. The maker of ES said its not canon therefore its not canon.

If you actually listen to what TESO's developers are saying you will be disgusted by the existence of TESO.

What they are providing and building and developing isn't an Elder Scrolls Online game, its Just an Online game with the Elder Scroll's name on it.

That is a big difference from an Actual Elder Scrolls MMO.

When Skyrim's screen shots appeared on the Web it was instant HYPE, all the improvements, all the changes but it still is Elder Scrolls. The essentials of what made Skyrim an Elder scroll's game was still intact, even when they changed so much. How can any fan whom have read the features for TESO and not be angry is beyond my understanding.

There are hundreds of MMO's that played like WOW, and all the new MMO being developed and with expansions and updates coming will all have 3 faction PVP. ( RIFT, WOW, GW2, TSW....etc ) This game will just get lost in the hundreds of MMO out there, unfortunately most fans are just wishing that Bethesda will come out and said that they are indeed making TES VI, and that it will come out in 2014~2015 so that we will leave TESO alone and wait for the SP to come out.

This whole thing is going to be very interesting to watch over the next few years. First this game is going to alienate most of the pre-existing TES fans as it lacks everything that makes TES what it is at it's core. Second it's going to alienate a large portion of the MMO fanbase as it's shaping up to be just another tab-targeting quest-driven themepark clone and people for the most part have had enough of playing the same game over and over with a new paint job. Third if it has any form of unrestricted PvP it will alienate a large portion of the PvE crowd as well.

This game has "Train wreck of monumental proportions" written all over it.

Bren

I really see them struggle to market the game right.

When Blizzard entered the MMO market they had no RPG.
Warcraft was a RTS and Diablo a Hack'n Slay both Multiplayer capable and gathering millions and millions of loyal Blizzard Fans.
World of Warcraft was then not only an streamlined MMORPG for the masses, it was either a different genre and an upgrade to Blizzards game portfolio.
When you started to play WoW you had a different, a borader, a better gameplay experience.

TESO too has million of potential Fans but the gameplay will probably become a DOWNGRADE from what TES offers usually - and for that it will probably fail.

TESO has million of Fans that wont be reached by some of the different gameplay systems the game is said will offer - so it will probably fail.

TESO has million of Fans that did not ask for a massive mmo in a daoc+wow style so it will end up competing for the spare mmo gamers that dont play the Giant WoW or the hundreds of other games leaving it with a fraction of the projected playerbase - so it will probably fail.

Their marketing must do wonders to overcome the obstacles the Brand and the Brand-related expectations will raise!

Originally posted by Shubawkss

People don't understand that Zenimax Online is the child company of Bethesda.. this company is basically the "Online" version of Bethesda.

It's the other way around.

You have Bethesda Game Studio which is owned by Bethesda Softworks. Bethesda Softworks is owned by Zenimax Media.  Zenimax Online Studios is owned by Zenimax Media.

Here's a quote from Zenimax Media's website : ZeniMax creates and publishes original interactive entertainment content for consoles, the PC, and handheld/wireless devices. Its Bethesda Softworks division, founded in 1986 in the early days of the industry, has a long history of success as a publisher of award-winning video games. In addition, the ZeniMax group includes some of the most acclaimed development studios in the world.

And Zenimax Online Studio's Website : ZeniMax Online is part of the ZeniMax Media group of companies, which includes our publishing partner Bethesda, Bethesda Game Studios, id software, and Arkane Studios.

Garrett needs to edit his article, and replace Bethesda by Zenimax Online Studios (even if it's entirely possible that both team may be sharing their booth at E3).

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by kalsigur

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by buegur

I agree with Dimasok that if it has DAoC type warfare and a good community set in the Elder Scroll universe I'll be happy enough.  The combat type doesn't bother me which way they go.

 May ask?

Combat mechanics aside, because I do agree with that idea.  It doesn't bother you that it'll be a class/ level based character progression, with quest driven leveling, an ephasis on a single player storyline that incorporates heavy use of phasing, and an engame pvp system that is doesn't really have a true purpose? (They said that the winning faction will have a ruler designated based on who contributed the most during the fighting, but that it's only a title and has no impact on the game.  The ruler is only a ruler because the game says he is, but he can't do anything in the position and it's only a "bragging right".  That's straight from the developers mouth)  As well as all the lore they're writting for the game has been admitted to not being considered canon by the guys at Bethesda.

None of that bothers you as long as it's 3 faction pvp, in the ES universe?

 

It's just bewildering to me that some people would only care about the 3 faction pvp, yet DAoC never shut down their servers.  If that's all people want, and if DAoC does it so well, why aren't people just playing DAoC then?

 

Um, Elder Scrolls is a level based progression system with the illusion of being skill based. Always has been.

 All dungeons and towns are instanced ALREADY, and have been forever. (EXCEPT IN MORROWIND -Towns were open and connected to the rest of the world -  where you could fly - BRING BACK LEVITATE).

Also, a ruler is only a ruler because the people let him be. And he doesnt have any ACTUAL power unless the people allow him to. Bascially, "bragging rights" are a core human desire.

Lore is not canon? Please, it takes place 1000 years before any Elder Scrolls game you've played. You try going back 1000 years and tell me how accurate your lore is. I promise you, what you know, is not necessarily what happened. 

 

 Elders scrolls insn't class based, and it's skill up on use, with free form character development.  You know that, I know that, everyone person familliar with ES knows that.  Saying it uses levels based progression is just ignoring the entirety of how it that level based progression works. 

TESO is class and level based, and you know exactly what that means, as does everyone else.  NO free form character development.  You're locked into a class and that means you're locked into what skills you can ultimately use.  No one expected that from an announced ES game.  No one.

I would expect a ruler to do things like be able to set tax rates.  I dont' expect meaningful pvp to be a "bragging right".  How is that meaningful.

No, the lore isn't canon, they said so themselves.  One of the devs came out and said specfically that bethesda doesn't consider any of the lore in TESO to be relevant to the single player games, and that nothing write is considerd canon by bethesda.  That means that Beth can make a game in the exact same time period and the lore can be completely different.  If they tell me that, I think I'll take their word for it.

 

You didn't actually answer the question.  It's ok to you that the game has no real connection to the ES universe, outside of the names of landmarks being the same, that it doesn't even use the same character development as any other ES games, It's ok if the game ephasizes single player questing with heavy use of phasing, as long as it's 3 faction pvp with the ES name attacked to it?

And if all you care about is 3 faction pvp, and if DAoC is so great because of it, why not just play DAoC?

About the part in red, that kind of depends on how they do the class/skill system. For example, quite a few of us have played PoE recently. There are 6 classes, but every class can use every skill and gain every passive/stat boost in the skill tree. Every class shares the exact same skill tree, but what the class determines is where in the tree you start, making it generally easier to stick to that area of the tree and build yourself in that area, but if you choose you can do things like say start as a Witch and steer away from the Intelligence section and work your way into Strength or Dex passives. Skills themselves are linked to gems which just require you to have X level and X stat... so as long as you eithe rhave gear on which gives those bonus stats, or picking those stat passives in the skill tree, you can use any skill with any character.

If Zenimax is smart, theyll work out a system which offers that same form of freedom and customization. A ton of games could benefit from a system similar to PoE, allowing you to build how YOU want not the way some dev said you should be and you have no choice about it.

To see what im talking about with PoEs skill tree check here: http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/

Every class uses this tree, just starts in different spots.

they need to understand that majority of players are tired of the WoW clones... if they want a wow alike game they can play WoW with tons of content.... as elder scrolls fan i want it to be as it is oblivion/skyrim with massive multiplayer feature.  like it is Darkfall online (real time combat) but in a world of TES with skills and magic we saw from the games.. no need to take the easy route here cause they gonna fail hard. only a good IP wont sell in the subscription long term.. only box sales maybe.

Originally posted by Resiakraw

 

About the part in red, that kind of depends on how they do the class/skill system. For example, quite a few of us have played PoE recently. There are 6 classes, but every class can use every skill and gain every passive/stat boost in the skill tree. Every class shares the exact same skill tree, but what the class determines is where in the tree you start, making it generally easier to stick to that area of the tree and build yourself in that area, but if you choose you can do things like say start as a Witch and steer away from the Intelligence section and work your way into Strength or Dex passives. Skills themselves are linked to gems which just require you to have X level and X stat... so as long as you eithe rhave gear on which gives those bonus stats, or picking those stat passives in the skill tree, you can use any skill with any character.

If Zenimax is smart, theyll work out a system which offers that same form of freedom and customization. A ton of games could benefit from a system similar to PoE, allowing you to build how YOU want not the way some dev said you should be and you have no choice about it.

 

To see what im talking about with PoEs skill tree check here: http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/

Every class uses this tree, just starts in different spots.

 That' pretty much what Saga of Ryzom does as well, but through skill point allocation.

Unfortunetly it doesn't sound like that's how it's going to work here.  The latest thing they've said makes it sound like a hybrid class/ skill use system.  Pick a mage and you'll have specific skill that you can selec from that are only available to the mage class.  Use the skills to improve them.  Regardless of your class you can use any weapon.

Here's my prblem.  What if I don't want to use a weapon?  a 3rd of my skills are dedicated solely to my weapon, I don't really get much of a choice, unless I can just use the other 4 skills only in combat.

My other big problem.  It's shaping up that the game is entirely focused on fighting mobs and other players.  The thing that made the ES games great to me is that that was a choice.  I didn't have to kill monsters if I didn't want to.  I could just hunt, or pick flowers, or catch butterflies, or craft potions, and skyrim really expanded on the idea of do whatever you want by adding more things to do, and giving you the ability to effect economies.

TESO isn't turning out to be a sandbox MMO like people expected when the announcement was first made, and lets face reality here.  The first thing EVERYONE thought, before any information came out, was that TESO would be a sandbox MMO that would play much like any one of the single player games.  Anyone that says that isn't the first thing they though when they saw the announcement is blatantly lying.

The very first article written here was very much inclined to the point of view that TESO could change the MMO landscape by bringing us a quality, well funded, polished, sandbox mmo experience.  Everything I've read sinse has been counter that. 

Now I'm reading an article praising ZeniOnline for bring us that 3 faction pvp experience that everyone seemed to know and love from DAoC.  I'm sorry, but as an ES fan I'm not looking for the DAoC experience in an ES mmo, I've playd and can still play DAoC for that experience, I want the ES experience in my ES MMO, period.

Instead of articles praising them for doing what another game already does, why not write an article asking why it's to much to ask that they give ES fans the ES experience they expected in an ES mmo?  Let's not ignore everything they aren't doing in favor of praising the couple things they may do well, in an effort to attract an audience that has nothing to with ES, and sure isn't what ES fans ever asked for in an MMO.

No fan ever expected an ES mmo that was based on 3 faction pvp, with classes, and an ephasis on single player story lines that rely heavily on phasing.  That's the exact opposite of what you would expect of an ES MMO!  THAT should be the headlining article about the game.

Website, controversy, more traffick, more clicks, more views, more replies, I'm contributing.  I get it.

"The most poorly received MMO announcement in the industry's history."  That pretty much sums up where this MMO is headed...