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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Report: 38 Studios lays off entire staff

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108 posts found
  Tnice

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 567

5/25/12 8:39:09 PM#81

From the screens and videos it appears that 38 Studios was just in the process of making Curt Shilling's version of yet another WoW clone.  Even if they had put something out it would have failed so lucky for them this did not prolong the agony.  It must be like working for a auto maker and seeing one of the worse cars ever come from your Designers.  You know it will be a failure but need the money to survive.

Shilling obviously did not know anything about making games or about business in general.  He should have stuck with baseball.

  arctarus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 2588

5/25/12 10:32:06 PM#82
Originally posted by Neanderthal

Hmm...

You know, in a way I can almost feel sorry for Curt just because he was a gamer who wanted to make his dream game and actually had the chance to do it untill it all fell apart.

But at the same time all the signs seemed to indicate that his big dream was simply to make his own version of WoW and seeing that go down in flames, I must admit, tweaks that horrible, gleefully vindictive part of my mind and makes me want to chuckle in a sinister sort of way.

I do feel bad for all the grunt workers though.

 

You feel sorry for a dimwit that wrote himself a 4mil fat paycheck that would have gone to pay for the employees salaries?
http://i.wow.joystiq.com/2012/05/25/wrup-a-moment-of-silence-for-38-studios/

RIP Orc Choppa

  User Deleted
5/25/12 10:43:17 PM#83
Originally posted by Rockhide
Originally posted by Sorrow
Originally posted by Rockhide

The fact that nobody came in to rescue the Copernicus project doesn't seem to say anything very positive about how it was being developed and/or what state it's currently in, despite claims that we could be playing it within the year.

Not always true,  if they let it go into bankruptcy, and the assets are surrendered to the state as it looks like they will be. Someone could come in and pick it up for pennies on the dollar.

 

Also do not count 38 out yet, many companies in new england are sneaky corrupt bastards.

They will intentionally tank a publically held company to throw off the debt, private investors, and any stock holders. Then they turn around and restructure it as a private entity.

This has happened so many times to me lately its not even funny, whats worse is its legal through loopholes in many of them damn yankee states.

 

Nowhere did I say the project was dead.

 

I agree, somebody will likely buy up the assets -- they're too potentially valuable to go to waste --  but because they didn't arrange a deal before everybody got axed, they won't be gaining the development team that made it.

 

There are numerous examples of studios being bought out with the staff to some degree intact to enable them to continue working on existing projects or to exploit their talents in other areas. That's obviously not the case here.

 

38 Studios, for example, retained about 60% of Big Huge games' development team to help finish Reckoning, retrofitted for the Amalur setting.  Conversely, whoever scoops up Copernicus is starting with 0% (more than likely of course, people like Schilling, Salvator, and Rolston would be happy to consult, but there's no knowing where many of the people 'on the ground' will be when the project gets started again).

 

The business decision to acquire the Copernicus assets as cheaply as possible obviously trumped any number of development considerations I guess is what I'm saying. Would that decision have been made if the development team were doing such a great job and the game was in such great shape at this point in time?   IMO that seems unlikely, though of course I'm not privy to the discussions going on in corporate board rooms.

 

Could pull an enmasse where the developers themselves walk away with the code reform thier own label and push the project out like TERA did.

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6172

5/25/12 10:50:46 PM#84
Originally posted by ozmono
Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by Sylvarii

Um no,the game is crap just like swtor is crap but still sold units.That just means you hit em once and after that most(obviously not you) knows not to fall for the hype again.

KOA is crap.


I am sorry but that statement makes no sense in this context.  Not a flame it simply has no real meaning.

Maybe not but his not alone. Lots of people thought it was crap and even most people who lliked it certainly don't seem to think it was anything special or groundbreaking which it would probably need to be to sell the 3mil+ copies. It got tons of press too, anyone who visits gaming sites or reads gaming mags every so often would have known about it and all the "amazing" talent that was hired to make it great so the fact that they managed to sell 1 mill doesn't make it good. To keep it simple, KOA was crap.


And even though they made a decent amount of money the opinion that it was crap is why they laid off a bunch of people?

 

That is completely illogical.  Talk about being confused by hate/dislike or whatever. 

Whether you like the game or not, it had enough sales.  Was it the next Skyrim? No and neither are 99% of games.

 

What your opinion or even a majority of gamers opinion is on the matter doesn't matter for jack in this case.  Trying to say a company went out of business becasue the only game they have ever released was crap when it was marginally successful is completely assinine.

 

If they had some history of making crappy games and this caused their funding to dry up then that would be fine.  But its not even close to the case.  In fact Big Huge Games has made some good games and Studio 38 has made none at all.

You don't like the game fine.  You think it caused this or had any input into it at all that is nuts.  Flat out barking mad.  Its not possible.

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6172

5/25/12 10:52:39 PM#85
Originally posted by Sorrow
Originally posted by Rockhide
Originally posted by Sorrow
Originally posted by Rockhide

The fact that nobody came in to rescue the Copernicus project doesn't seem to say anything very positive about how it was being developed and/or what state it's currently in, despite claims that we could be playing it within the year.

Not always true,  if they let it go into bankruptcy, and the assets are surrendered to the state as it looks like they will be. Someone could come in and pick it up for pennies on the dollar.

 

Also do not count 38 out yet, many companies in new england are sneaky corrupt bastards.

They will intentionally tank a publically held company to throw off the debt, private investors, and any stock holders. Then they turn around and restructure it as a private entity.

This has happened so many times to me lately its not even funny, whats worse is its legal through loopholes in many of them damn yankee states.

 

Nowhere did I say the project was dead.

 

I agree, somebody will likely buy up the assets -- they're too potentially valuable to go to waste --  but because they didn't arrange a deal before everybody got axed, they won't be gaining the development team that made it.

 

There are numerous examples of studios being bought out with the staff to some degree intact to enable them to continue working on existing projects or to exploit their talents in other areas. That's obviously not the case here.

 

38 Studios, for example, retained about 60% of Big Huge games' development team to help finish Reckoning, retrofitted for the Amalur setting.  Conversely, whoever scoops up Copernicus is starting with 0% (more than likely of course, people like Schilling, Salvator, and Rolston would be happy to consult, but there's no knowing where many of the people 'on the ground' will be when the project gets started again).

 

The business decision to acquire the Copernicus assets as cheaply as possible obviously trumped any number of development considerations I guess is what I'm saying. Would that decision have been made if the development team were doing such a great job and the game was in such great shape at this point in time?   IMO that seems unlikely, though of course I'm not privy to the discussions going on in corporate board rooms.

 

Could pull an enmasse where the developers themselves walk away with the code reform thier own label and push the project out like TERA did.


That could get you pretty seriously sued if they can prove you took the code. 

  ozmono

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1045

5/25/12 10:56:37 PM#86
Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by ozmono
Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by Sylvarii

Um no,the game is crap just like swtor is crap but still sold units.That just means you hit em once and after that most(obviously not you) knows not to fall for the hype again.

KOA is crap.


I am sorry but that statement makes no sense in this context.  Not a flame it simply has no real meaning.

Maybe not but his not alone. Lots of people thought it was crap and even most people who lliked it certainly don't seem to think it was anything special or groundbreaking which it would probably need to be to sell the 3mil+ copies. It got tons of press too, anyone who visits gaming sites or reads gaming mags every so often would have known about it and all the "amazing" talent that was hired to make it great so the fact that they managed to sell 1 mill doesn't make it good. To keep it simple, KOA was crap.


And even though they made a decent amount of money the opinion that it was crap is why they laid off a bunch of people?

No, you are putting words in my mouth under the guise of posing a question which is why I haven't quoted the rest of your post as you are arguing with yourself there.

I am saying the game wasn't good enough to sell three million copies and the fact that it sold 1 mil doesn't mean sht when you consider how much press and hype they had.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3056

I actually still like MMORPGs

5/26/12 12:35:43 AM#87

KoA is a great game with an awesome world, I really wanted to see it in an MMO. This is very sad news indeed.

  stayontarget

Guide

Joined: 10/04/08
Posts: 6131

Girlfriends come and go but Epic battles are Soulbound

5/26/12 12:48:27 AM#88

Here's a nice little write up about 38 Studios & Curt Schillings failings

http://kotaku.com/5913492/curt-schillings-big-huge-38-studios-debacle

 

Quote:

Whilst people were being told that they had no job, Curt is bragging and giving himself high fives. It's not like he was trying to keep the rest of the team's spirits up, because unless he is counting the Governor of Rhode Island, there was no team.

This is what grownups call "being repugnant."

 

Curts twitter comments:  http://twitter.com/gehrig38/status/205468697639391232

 

 

Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1855

5/26/12 1:59:55 AM#89

It's funny how many similarities this has to Vanguard.

Both were games that were inspired by EQ.

Both were lead by people who never lead a company before.

Both started off with a massive project instead of a small game.

Both had tons of former SoE employees.

Both went bankrupt.

lol

  Tnice

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 567

5/26/12 2:26:09 AM#90
Originally posted by CalmOceans

It's funny how many similarities this has to Vanguard.

Both were games that were inspired by EQ.

Both were lead by people who never lead a company before.

Both started off with a massive project instead of a small game.

Both had tons of former SoE employees.

Both went bankrupt.

lol

I did not think a game effort could be worse than Vanguard but this is it.  At least Vanguard had a name and a playable product.  38 Studios did not even have a name for the game.

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2048

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

5/26/12 6:27:09 AM#91
Originally posted by Comaf

What a loss to the potential for a truly creative mmorpg.

There goes your only hope....

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/338777

  Neanderthal

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 1613

5/26/12 8:09:51 AM#92
Originally posted by arctarus
Originally posted by Neanderthal

Hmm...

You know, in a way I can almost feel sorry for Curt just because he was a gamer who wanted to make his dream game and actually had the chance to do it untill it all fell apart.

But at the same time all the signs seemed to indicate that his big dream was simply to make his own version of WoW and seeing that go down in flames, I must admit, tweaks that horrible, gleefully vindictive part of my mind and makes me want to chuckle in a sinister sort of way.

I do feel bad for all the grunt workers though.

 

You feel sorry for a dimwit that wrote himself a 4mil fat paycheck that would have gone to pay for the employees salaries?
http://i.wow.joystiq.com/2012/05/25/wrup-a-moment-of-silence-for-38-studios/

You might want to look more closely at what I wrote.  Saying I can almost feel sorry for him hardly makes me his white knight charging in to defend him.

However, I do think I'll refrain from grabbing my torch and pitchfork and joining the mob rushing to tar and feather the guy.  I don't know what all was going on or what his intentions were.  He obviously didn't run his company very well but I doubt if this is the outcome he was shooting for.

Did he fuck up?  Yes.

Am I ready to join the lynch mob?  Not just now, thanks.

Keep in mind, I was never a fan of his or the type of game I think they were making.  But still, I don't know enough yet to rush to judgement on the guy. 

 

  Xiaoki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2468

5/26/12 11:03:37 AM#93


Originally posted by Sorrow
Could pull an enmasse where the developers themselves walk away with the code reform thier own label and push the project out like TERA did.

Dear ....God ....wrong ....on every level.

How can people seriously post misinformation like this.


Also, yeah, steal from the state of Rhode Island so they can push out a WoW clone. Theres a brilliant idea.

  Teiraa

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/05
Posts: 447

5/26/12 11:40:52 AM#94
Originally posted by CalmOceans

It's funny how many similarities this has to Vanguard.

Both were games that were inspired by EQ.

Both were lead by people who never lead a company before.

Both started off with a massive project instead of a small game.

Both had tons of former SoE employees.

Both went bankrupt.

lol

 

The Vision strikes again...

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2048

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

5/26/12 3:46:52 PM#95
Originally posted by Teiraa
Originally posted by CalmOceans

It's funny how many similarities this has to Vanguard.

Both were games that were inspired by EQ.

Both were lead by people who never lead a company before.

Both started off with a massive project instead of a small game.

Both had tons of former SoE employees.

Both went bankrupt.

lol

 

The Vision strikes again...

Guess there is some importance to having business guys run a game company, huh?

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

5/26/12 3:55:00 PM#96
  Warmaker

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 2240

5/27/12 8:11:09 AM#97

Glad none of my time and money went to this company.  But the state of Rhode Island is royally screwed.

"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  Swollen_Beef

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/15/09
Posts: 203

5/27/12 9:16:51 AM#98
Originally posted by Maelkor
Originally posted by fenistil

It is true.

 

Various sites reports + some former workers tweeters & blogs confirm it as well.

 

Also there is rumor that 38 studios did not play nice with not paying & not telling that workers health insurance is going to end like tommorow.

All the more reason to buy your own health insurance and be responsible for yourself. It definately sucks to lose one's job, however, in the volatile gaming industry one should expect this to happen from time to time and to prepare for it as best you can.

 

If its just you, it makes more sense to buy your own insurance, you tend to get better plans for roughly the same price. (Unless your company kicks ass and offers BC/BS type insurance for cheap). 

Now if you have a family, Better hope you get a good job. Buying it on your own will suck. 

 

 

 

It seems 38 Studios bit off much more than they could chew. Voice over? really? Your first game and you are trying to Out develop bioware? no wonder it failed. So much money wasted on bullshit. 

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16768

5/27/12 9:31:52 AM#99
Originally posted by Tnice

From the screens and videos it appears that 38 Studios was just in the process of making Curt Shilling's version of yet another WoW clone.  Even if they had put something out it would have failed so lucky for them this did not prolong the agony.  It must be like working for a auto maker and seeing one of the worse cars ever come from your Designers.  You know it will be a failure but need the money to survive.

Shilling obviously did not know anything about making games or about business in general.  He should have stuck with baseball.

Rift earned 100M$ in the first year and it is just a Wow clone as well...

Saying what woukl have failed or not and judging a game based on the few things we seen and heard from Copernicus isn´t fair.

But I agree that Shilling isn't a businessman, hiring in so many people for so long time just made no sense. He should have started with a smaller core team and released a CORPG after the singlerplayergame instead of going straight to a MMO with 100 employees more than ANET. Then once he got in some money and saw that people really want his game he should have gone big.

But I wont blame him for failing, we need more people that try to fund MMOs.

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2048

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

5/27/12 12:14:06 PM#100
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Tnice

From the screens and videos it appears that 38 Studios was just in the process of making Curt Shilling's version of yet another WoW clone.  Even if they had put something out it would have failed so lucky for them this did not prolong the agony.  It must be like working for a auto maker and seeing one of the worse cars ever come from your Designers.  You know it will be a failure but need the money to survive.

Shilling obviously did not know anything about making games or about business in general.  He should have stuck with baseball.

Rift earned 100M$ in the first year and it is just a Wow clone as well...

Saying what woukl have failed or not and judging a game based on the few things we seen and heard from Copernicus isn´t fair.

But I agree that Shilling isn't a businessman, hiring in so many people for so long time just made no sense. He should have started with a smaller core team and released a CORPG after the singlerplayergame instead of going straight to a MMO with 100 employees more than ANET. Then once he got in some money and saw that people really want his game he should have gone big.

But I wont blame him for failing, we need more people that try to fund MMOs.

Unfortuanately, I see this as another example investors will point to when they don't fund MMOs.  Any startup is basically going to have explain why this team is totally unlike Brad McQuaid's or Curt Schilling's (which is probably good thing if you think about it).

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