Originally posted by psykobilly

 

There was no progression issue at release and in beta.  When you read a book your skill went up 20-30 points, and you had to work up the rest.  The skill gain was much much slower.

Now the game is easy mode... read book to 80 skill, and it goes up so fast you don't even need to grind/macro the rest (though you can in a few hours).

It was a horrible game design change that screwed over players who worked hard to get their characters finished.  Believe me, you actually did have something to be proud of with a finished character... now it's whatever.

 

 well all but the extractors wre still pretty easy to raise, but i always thoguht skill books shouldnt of been a passive skill but only increase the rate at which you raise when doing the action. So a skill book would give you like a 2x skill increase when you hit things with a sword if you are reading the swords book.

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by psykobilly

 

There was no progression issue at release and in beta.  When you read a book your skill went up 20-30 points, and you had to work up the rest.  The skill gain was much much slower.

Now the game is easy mode... read book to 80 skill, and it goes up so fast you don't even need to grind/macro the rest (though you can in a few hours).

It was a horrible game design change that screwed over players who worked hard to get their characters finished.  Believe me, you actually did have something to be proud of with a finished character... now it's whatever.

 

 well all but the extractors wre still pretty easy to raise, but i always thoguht skill books shouldnt of been a passive skill but only increase the rate at which you raise when doing the action. So a skill book would give you like a 2x skill increase when you hit things with a sword if you are reading the swords book.

You obviously don't remember when shooting 1k arrows would not even get you one point of skill.

Originally posted by psykobilly

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by psykobilly

 

There was no progression issue at release and in beta.  When you read a book your skill went up 20-30 points, and you had to work up the rest.  The skill gain was much much slower.

Now the game is easy mode... read book to 80 skill, and it goes up so fast you don't even need to grind/macro the rest (though you can in a few hours).

It was a horrible game design change that screwed over players who worked hard to get their characters finished.  Believe me, you actually did have something to be proud of with a finished character... now it's whatever.

 

 well all but the extractors wre still pretty easy to raise, but i always thoguht skill books shouldnt of been a passive skill but only increase the rate at which you raise when doing the action. So a skill book would give you like a 2x skill increase when you hit things with a sword if you are reading the swords book.

You obviously don't remember when shooting 1k arrows would not even get you one point of skill.

 i do remember raising archery to max in kranesh by shooting an npc, i do remember raisng my swords to max by taming a hrose and handle hitting it to 100. whilst it did take lnoger than current it was still pretty quick compared to UO. It all comes down to your own interpretation of whats quick, UO system was quite lengthy and MO even pre skill books was quick compared to that.

And now imagine how some of us were exposed to beta and a month after its"release." You think it is awful now... LOL.

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by psykobilly

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by psykobilly

 

There was no progression issue at release and in beta.  When you read a book your skill went up 20-30 points, and you had to work up the rest.  The skill gain was much much slower.

Now the game is easy mode... read book to 80 skill, and it goes up so fast you don't even need to grind/macro the rest (though you can in a few hours).

It was a horrible game design change that screwed over players who worked hard to get their characters finished.  Believe me, you actually did have something to be proud of with a finished character... now it's whatever.

 

 well all but the extractors wre still pretty easy to raise, but i always thoguht skill books shouldnt of been a passive skill but only increase the rate at which you raise when doing the action. So a skill book would give you like a 2x skill increase when you hit things with a sword if you are reading the swords book.

You obviously don't remember when shooting 1k arrows would not even get you one point of skill.

 i do remember raising archery to max in kranesh by shooting an npc, i do remember raisng my swords to max by taming a hrose and handle hitting it to 100. whilst it did take lnoger than current it was still pretty quick compared to UO. It all comes down to your own interpretation of whats quick, UO system was quite lengthy and MO even pre skill books was quick compared to that.

In BETA?  Calling bullshit on that.

Originally posted by psykobilly

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by psykobilly

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by psykobilly

 

There was no progression issue at release and in beta.  When you read a book your skill went up 20-30 points, and you had to work up the rest.  The skill gain was much much slower.

Now the game is easy mode... read book to 80 skill, and it goes up so fast you don't even need to grind/macro the rest (though you can in a few hours).

It was a horrible game design change that screwed over players who worked hard to get their characters finished.  Believe me, you actually did have something to be proud of with a finished character... now it's whatever.

 

 well all but the extractors wre still pretty easy to raise, but i always thoguht skill books shouldnt of been a passive skill but only increase the rate at which you raise when doing the action. So a skill book would give you like a 2x skill increase when you hit things with a sword if you are reading the swords book.

You obviously don't remember when shooting 1k arrows would not even get you one point of skill.

 i do remember raising archery to max in kranesh by shooting an npc, i do remember raisng my swords to max by taming a hrose and handle hitting it to 100. whilst it did take lnoger than current it was still pretty quick compared to UO. It all comes down to your own interpretation of whats quick, UO system was quite lengthy and MO even pre skill books was quick compared to that.

In BETA?  Calling bullshit on that.

 

 why would it be bullshit? they had both mounts and archery in late beta and open beta and i remember distinctly me and kopikat raising archery up on npcs with short bows for quite some time and not the first time i had done it. Since kopikat never played at release and later on it was impossible to raise skills by hitting npcs it had to be open beta i distinctly rmember him comnig to play the game during open beta. So please explain why it is bullshit?

Originally posted by NaughtyP

I was excited to try a trial of this game. While I enjoyed the environment and the concepts were great... it was just too buggy for me and I had a lot of lag/animation problems and a few crashes right off the bat.

MO is a good concept, sadly its implementation sucks.  I'd love to see MO in the hands of someone  competent.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Quirhid

Usability contributes to quality. It is not a separate thing.

Some players actually take pride in playing games that lack in this respect saying the game "demands skill",it is "hard mode", "sorts out the riff-raff" or whatever. I study usability and user experience and i shake my head bemused when I read stuff like this. Would you say that I'm wasting my time?

First off, Usability =/= Quality, it's akin to Ergonomics (and the game does fine to that respect)

Secondly, the word you are looking for is Familiarity. It's not impossible to learn how to navigate the UI, and combat works great when you gets some points invested in relevant skills, and use anything *other than* the noob hatchet. You can apply this phliosophy to ALL games you think are too complicated for their own good.

I had plenty fun spearing rabbits with a short sword... once I figured out that [alt] primes a stabbing attack. My point with that, again, it's not that hard to figure out or research. People just have zero patience for that which isn't familiar, and then tend to bore quickly with that which is.

That is why I love games like this.

Sorry, as a user experience person myself I felt the need to comment. Usability/user experience =/= ergonomics. If playing the game gave you back/neck strain issues, then it has a problem ergonomically. 

If it were impossible to use the UI, that would be one thing, but difficult to navigate UI, UI that lacks features seen in other modern games, lack of documentation, etc. still negatively affect user experience.

Usability generally consists of three interacting components: the user (player), the system (MO), and the environment (nebulous here; could be the computer system MO's running on). The user's background knowledge and expectations, either a lack of or mismatched expectations, could negatively impact the user experience, but likewise the game lacking features that gamers have come to expect (e.g. tutorial, feedback for actions, etc.) could also negatively affect user experience.

Often, usability is measured with the metrics effectiveness, efficiency, and satisfaction. From ISO standard 9241:

effectiveness: the accuracy and completeness with which specified users can achieve specified goals in particular environments; efficiency: the resources expended in relation to the accuracy and completeness of goals achieved; satisfaction: the comfort and acceptability of the work system to its users and other people affected by its use.

So here we might define effectiveness as "whether a player can complete an action such as chopping woodat all."

Efficiency could be thought of in this case as "whether the UI, or controls, allow the player to complete actions efficiently."

Satisfaction should be obvious.

Just throwing these thoughts out.

Edit: What you might have been thinking of is cognitive ergonomics or human factors. Still, I would argue that usability is more applicable here.

[mod edit - do not discuss specific moderation instances on the forums, especialy when the circumstances are not as you say]

Originally posted by Anubisan

It has a learning curve, yes. But if you can get past that... the game is actually a very derp sandbox with a lot of features. It is not for the feint of heart though.

(Fixed it for you)

Here's to hoping goblinworks don't fail.

Originally posted by DrNo172000

Here's to hoping goblinworks don't fail.

their game has 0 similarities with MO.

I had the same experience as the OP. Started off and it was night, I could see nothing. After a while, I just quit.

Kinda like going to a movie, and having the first 20 minutes being a blank screen. Not a good first impression.

I did see some of the world, rubber-banding deer and huge empty spaces.

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by DrNo172000

Here's to hoping goblinworks don't fail.

their game has 0 similarities with MO.

I meant as a sandbox in general (or least half sandbox according to their blog).  However they don't actually have a game as of yet, just ideas on paper.  So here's hoping they pull off those ideas.  Personally I think the UO style sandbox (as much as I love UO), which is what MO draws from heavily is outdated.  MO's style of gameplay only breeds asshats and clowns, there needs to be mechanics that actually make that behavior a real risk.

Don't they only have like 3 employees left?  How does anyone expect their product to improve with less people?

Originally posted by PoopBucket

Don't they only have like 3 employees left?  How does anyone expect their product to improve with less people?

5 permanent employees + temporary contracted employees.

The game is improving since the beginning. Im having fun playing it with my guild. 

---

Originally posted by Hodo   Let MO die, and lets hope someone good picks up the pieces.  

---

Originally posted by DrNo172000

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by DrNo172000

Here's to hoping goblinworks don't fail.

their game has 0 similarities with MO.

I meant as a sandbox in general (or least half sandbox according to their blog).  However they don't actually have a game as of yet, just ideas on paper.  So here's hoping they pull off those ideas.  Personally I think the UO style sandbox (as much as I love UO), which is what MO draws from heavily is outdated.  MO's style of gameplay only breeds asshats and clowns, there needs to be mechanics that actually make that behavior a real risk.

plenty of people have ideas on bits of paper, Embers OF Caerus etc.. But im sure MO looked amazing on paper but the reality is a little different. Hopefully they do succeed like you said but i would rather have a full sandbox over a half sandbox. I think archeage suits those looking for a half sandbox better than pathfinder.

Originally posted by deathshroud

plenty of people have ideas on bits of paper, Embers OF Caerus etc.. But im sure MO looked amazing on paper but the reality is a little different. Hopefully they do succeed like you said but i would rather have a full sandbox over a half sandbox. I think archeage suits those looking for a half sandbox better than pathfinder.

I honestly doubt MO looked great on paper. You would notice if MO was actually based on an existent design of a game. If there was a proper thieving system planned, or a proper combat system, or a proper horse breeding system, or a proper anything system, you could watch StarVault working step per step towards implementing said systems.

I doubt MO follows a real design. From what I know about SVs devs, I doubt they're able to formulate their goal on paper. I'm much more inclined to believe that the design of MO, if it exists, reads somewhat like: "And then we're going to make everything absolutely awesome by implementing awesome guards that will work awesomely, and then we have guards and thieves and illegally goods and combat in town but the awesome guards will make everything much more awesome for the player, so they can continue doing other awesome things. Oh and there'll be that one kickass sword in that awesomeness event. That'll be awesome." ;/

-64bit

They have been promissing that for oh, YEARS!  Not something I would hold my breath for.

Fail game is a fail game.  Like some other things..........They know who I am talking about.