Originally posted by ltank

Why not? Because you said so?

No. It's the old gaming paradigma: Easy to learn, hard to master. Mortal does fail on this one.

Originally posted by Bitshift

Originally posted by ltank

Why not? Because you said so?

 

No. It's the old gaming paradigma: Easy to learn, hard to master. Mortal does fail on this one.

 well i wouldnt say it fails at it since its made no atempt at it. But the game is both difficult to learn and hard to master currently. although not as difficult to learn as eve was back in the day, which is sort of proof a developer can turn that aronud once they spend time on it since eve today is a rather easy game to learn thanks to its indepth tutorials. However if SV can actually do that is another matter entirely.

Originally posted by ltank

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

For the OP, MO deosnt have a good tutorial. Thats the truth. Same problem as DF.

Sorry man, but if you're not willing to learn, its better to skip it before a full day cuz your brain probably can't handle that kind of learning curve. 

I can only ask you to try and join a clan to learn from the best. You had to do the same in DF and in most sandbox mmo's. 

It really shouldn't take a full day, half a day, or a work day to learn a game.

 

Why not? Because you said so?

Take two copies of the same game

One takes 24 hours to learn how to play, the other 1 hour. Which is the better game?

We certainly wouldn't say "They are both equal", because they are not. It's a basic fundamental principle that games that allow you to have fun while you learn are better than those that don't

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM

Heres a great video explaining new player experience.

Originally posted by Bitshift

Originally posted by ltank

Why not? Because you said so?

 

No. It's the old gaming paradigma: Easy to learn, hard to master. Mortal does fail on this one.

What you seem to forget, is the fact that MO has no level. Unlike DF, its a real 0 level cuz if you got the knowledge, you can maxout a character in 2 days or less than a week. 

What if wow had 0 level and you were instantly like a level 85? Newb's would be confuse as hell with all these skills to place in their hot bar and talent tree to chose. In BG's they would be forced to compete with the vets. They would probably quit and move on to rift just because of that.

So while its hard to learn and master MO, it won't take you 2 or more months to not only catch up to other players, but to also master the game. If you join a clan, it won't take you more than a month to learn cuz they will guide you all the way. In MO, you're not suppose to be a solo newbs. Solo players in a sandbox like this are doomed to quit.

Its a social game for a reason so learn from the best.

Easy to learn or difficult to master doesnt mean much when the game is still a half baked alpha after 2 years since release.

Was really disspointed seeing these review after so long...i actually forgot the game and felt a bit of excitement clicking here to check in since its been so long.

When the reviews jog my memory of why i left and went to that other sandbox with fun combat and stayed there for years...well mabey ill check back here in another 2 years?\

Oh and is it still the case where theres like 10 diffrent mob spawn in the giant world all spread out and everyone just camps around the town chopping wood and banging rocks since theres not much else to do?  Oh and if you roll anything other than...think it was called halfling...well the one race with the actually beautiful starter area (rest sucked)..are you still treated to a silent and lonely world?  Or have people branched out and started rolling other races?

And final question..if i were to join again would i have to use this site or the games forum to actually communicate with people?  Really saw no need and no benefit to the super restrictive chat where i couldnt even find anyone to chat/assist...and its a huge turn off for people looking for a little nudge in the right direction in game.  I remember i was told to reroll (yeah in a sandbox..) since i had chopped too many trees and would gimp my combat...since i couldnt find anything to combat (other than afk tree choppers)

well MO is currently awaiting its Awakening expansion which for many people will finally bring MO up to the quality and core mechancis it should of been at at release. Sort of a second release for the game. Heres some information on it so make up your own mind if you should try it again afterwards or wait antoher 2 years..

http://www.mortalonline.com/news

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/threads/an-interview-with-henrik.74695/

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/threads/focus-group-update-8-tindrem-screen-shots.75393/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4VhP-8fEPqc

thats pretty much everything we know about the expansion and its still very wip as you can tell.

Originally posted by deathshroud

 

 

Can somebody explain how water physics work in that screenshot? How did they manage having completely different incline line on the water surrounding buildings than the horizon..

i think its more of an optical illusion created by the buildings being slanted in the ocean. Makes you think the ocean isnt level. Also the outskirts of the players view in MO have always been slightly fisheyed. They are apparently experimenting with each build to get the right look on the ocean this is no more since it was ocnsdiered to bright. But the oceans now have a more realistic movmeent to them, like waves from what im told of the test server.

Originally posted by deathshroud

 well i wouldnt say it fails at it since its made no atempt at it. But the game is both difficult to learn and hard to master currently.

I wish I could agree, but in my opinion, the single player experience is over when you have skilled out your char and have tested your professions. After that, there is only PvP and as a solo player there is only grind.

I know the argument that in MO there is not much grind, but there really is if you don't play it like the devs want you to play it: As a PvP centric, heavy player interaction system with guilds and stuff. 

But if you play solo, you always get PKed (As you are helpless with your crafter) and what you are doing most of the time is boring slackhauling or woodchopping to constantly reequip yourself cause of random PKing.

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

What you seem to forget, is the fact that MO has no level. Unlike DF, its a real 0 level cuz if you got the knowledge, you can maxout a character in 2 days or less than a week. 

What if wow had 0 level and you were instantly like a level 85? Newb's would be confuse as hell with all these skills to place in their hot bar and talent tree to chose. In BG's they would be forced to compete with the vets. They would probably quit and move on to rift just because of that.

I don't see why you have to start as fully developed player in your argumentation.

A solid build out tutorial that shows you the basics on a seperate island for example, fully readable books that explains professions and NPCs that provides you with a few BASIC receipts would help a lot.

And regarding Skill complexity:

The main problem in my opinion is, that you MUST skill your char to even SEE that damn Skill Trees. That is really not hardcore, it is nonsense. The whole skill managing in MO is a mess and far away from being intuitive. 

Originally posted by Crunchy221

Easy to learn or difficult to master doesnt mean much when the game is still a half baked alpha after 2 years since release.

That's correct. As I have written earlier, quality assurance and bugfixing must be their priority, not horse peeing or a breeding system. But as many people have said before: It seems that the very base is a mess and that they are just scripting around the problems, which I think will not work that good.

game has always been tough for solo players, i should know i played the game for 7 months and all through beta as a solo player, until i was asked to join invictus after winning a fight with thier guild leader, i was in leather scout armour with a flakestone sword, he was in full ironbone with a tungsteel one and happened at the pass into GK.

But alot of the community are hoping that the Trade Broker who is a new npc coming with awakening will allow players to sell their wares, they choose what they want to sell and set a fixed price for it. So that solo players should have easy access to items and resources they cannot get themselves with only 3 char slots. Combined with mobs dropping weapons and armor for example the guards drop their equipment and so do the risars and bandits. Should make it much easier and actually killing things should be a valid proffesion without having to resort to selling to a butcher or having one yourself.

Game is always going to be harder to play solo though, so was UO and even SWG. Since pvp and especially full loot making working together a far safer option.

Originally posted by deathshroud

game has always been tough for solo players, i should know i played the game for 7 months and all through beta as a solo player, until i was asked to join invictus after winning a fight with thier guild leader, i was in leather scout armour with a flakestone sword, he was in full ironbone with a tungsteel one and happened at the pass into GK.

 

But alot of the community are hoping that the Trade Broker who is a new npc coming with awakening will allow players to sell their wares, they choose what they want to sell and set a fixed price for it. So that solo players should have easy access to items and resources they cannot get themselves with only 3 char slots. Combined with mobs dropping weapons and armor for example the guards drop their equipment and so do the risars and bandits. Should make it much easier and actually killing things should be a valid proffesion without having to resort to selling to a butcher or having one yourself.

Game is always going to be harder to play solo though, so was UO and even SWG. Since pvp and especially full loot making working together a far safer option.

Yeah, that should help alot. As long as they not implement it as bad as the mail man (Logout / Login to see send stuff, dupes etc.)

Originally posted by Bitshift

Originally posted by deathshroud

game has always been tough for solo players, i should know i played the game for 7 months and all through beta as a solo player, until i was asked to join invictus after winning a fight with thier guild leader, i was in leather scout armour with a flakestone sword, he was in full ironbone with a tungsteel one and happened at the pass into GK.

 

But alot of the community are hoping that the Trade Broker who is a new npc coming with awakening will allow players to sell their wares, they choose what they want to sell and set a fixed price for it. So that solo players should have easy access to items and resources they cannot get themselves with only 3 char slots. Combined with mobs dropping weapons and armor for example the guards drop their equipment and so do the risars and bandits. Should make it much easier and actually killing things should be a valid proffesion without having to resort to selling to a butcher or having one yourself.

Game is always going to be harder to play solo though, so was UO and even SWG. Since pvp and especially full loot making working together a far safer option.

 

Yeah, that should help alot. As long as they not implement it as bad as the mail man (Logout / Login to see send stuff, dupes etc.)

 yea lol, the mail guy has always been the one to end up breaking after every patch. Poor guy hopefully this time they spend enough time on making sure the trade broker and mail vendor are working 100% before going live. But from what i recall dawn was pretty much rushed out were as this seems to be taking its sweet time.

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by Bitshift

Originally posted by deathshroud

game has always been tough for solo players, i should know i played the game for 7 months and all through beta as a solo player, until i was asked to join invictus after winning a fight with thier guild leader, i was in leather scout armour with a flakestone sword, he was in full ironbone with a tungsteel one and happened at the pass into GK.

 

But alot of the community are hoping that the Trade Broker who is a new npc coming with awakening will allow players to sell their wares, they choose what they want to sell and set a fixed price for it. So that solo players should have easy access to items and resources they cannot get themselves with only 3 char slots. Combined with mobs dropping weapons and armor for example the guards drop their equipment and so do the risars and bandits. Should make it much easier and actually killing things should be a valid proffesion without having to resort to selling to a butcher or having one yourself.

Game is always going to be harder to play solo though, so was UO and even SWG. Since pvp and especially full loot making working together a far safer option.

 

Yeah, that should help alot. As long as they not implement it as bad as the mail man (Logout / Login to see send stuff, dupes etc.)

 yea lol, the mail guy has always been the one to end up breaking after every patch. Poor guy hopefully this time they spend enough time on making sure the trade broker and mail vendor are working 100% before going live. But from what i recall dawn was pretty much rushed out were as this seems to be taking its sweet time.

If that will be the case and the quality is okay, I will try it another month or two for sure.

Originally posted by Bitshift

Originally posted by deathshroud

Originally posted by Bitshift

Originally posted by deathshroud

game has always been tough for solo players, i should know i played the game for 7 months and all through beta as a solo player, until i was asked to join invictus after winning a fight with thier guild leader, i was in leather scout armour with a flakestone sword, he was in full ironbone with a tungsteel one and happened at the pass into GK.

 

But alot of the community are hoping that the Trade Broker who is a new npc coming with awakening will allow players to sell their wares, they choose what they want to sell and set a fixed price for it. So that solo players should have easy access to items and resources they cannot get themselves with only 3 char slots. Combined with mobs dropping weapons and armor for example the guards drop their equipment and so do the risars and bandits. Should make it much easier and actually killing things should be a valid proffesion without having to resort to selling to a butcher or having one yourself.

Game is always going to be harder to play solo though, so was UO and even SWG. Since pvp and especially full loot making working together a far safer option.

 

Yeah, that should help alot. As long as they not implement it as bad as the mail man (Logout / Login to see send stuff, dupes etc.)

 yea lol, the mail guy has always been the one to end up breaking after every patch. Poor guy hopefully this time they spend enough time on making sure the trade broker and mail vendor are working 100% before going live. But from what i recall dawn was pretty much rushed out were as this seems to be taking its sweet time.

If that will be the case and the quality is okay, I will try it another month or two for sure.

 same, i will return as well if i feel the expansion lvies up to expectations.

Originally posted by ltank

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

For the OP, MO deosnt have a good tutorial. Thats the truth. Same problem as DF.

Sorry man, but if you're not willing to learn, its better to skip it before a full day cuz your brain probably can't handle that kind of learning curve. 

I can only ask you to try and join a clan to learn from the best. You had to do the same in DF and in most sandbox mmo's. 

It really shouldn't take a full day, half a day, or a work day to learn a game.

 

Why not? Because you said so?

Because Mortal Online is a product. There are plenty of competing products out there that are demonstrably entertaining. Mortal Online on the other hand has no apparent redeeming features that would ever compell me to sink hours or days as well as money into understanding how to even begin to play the game. Vague curiosity carried me through 3 hours of Mortal Online a year ago with absolutely no progress. On the other hand, you can create a free trial for Eve Online and work through their collection of tutorial missions and at the end of a few days you will have a reasonable cache of currency, a few ships and ok starter gear and the knowledge of how to actually progress in the game.

Originally posted by Uronksur

Because Mortal Online is a product. There are plenty of competing products out there that are demonstrably entertaining. Mortal Online on the other hand has no apparent redeeming features that would ever compell me to sink hours or days as well as money into understanding how to even begin to play the game.

Yet there is nothing out there that looks and plays like it, so IMO, it is worth trying to figure out. It has little competition in the scheme of things, but is extremely hard to market because most folks want triple-A results in their games. Indie is a hard sell, any way you look at it.

Plus, It's just not the kind of game for an 'instant gratification' type, nor the 'what do I do now?' folks.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Uronksur

Because Mortal Online is a product. There are plenty of competing products out there that are demonstrably entertaining. Mortal Online on the other hand has no apparent redeeming features that would ever compell me to sink hours or days as well as money into understanding how to even begin to play the game.

Yet there is nothing out there that looks and plays like it, so IMO, it is worth trying to figure out. It has little competition in the scheme of things, but is extremely hard to market because most folks want triple-A results in their games. Indie is a hard sell, any way you look at it.

Plus, It's just not the kind of game for an 'instant gratification' type, nor the 'what do I do now?' folks.

1. No, just because it is "different" doesn't mean it is worth figuring out. I place a much higher value on my time than that. Simply existing isn't good enough.

2. I'm not looking for instant gratification. I'm looking for a game that gives me a reason to continue after I've tried it out for 3-4 hours instead of wiping it's bloated self from my hard drive.

Originally posted by Uronksur

Originally posted by ltank

Originally posted by SHOE788

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

For the OP, MO deosnt have a good tutorial. Thats the truth. Same problem as DF.

Sorry man, but if you're not willing to learn, its better to skip it before a full day cuz your brain probably can't handle that kind of learning curve. 

I can only ask you to try and join a clan to learn from the best. You had to do the same in DF and in most sandbox mmo's. 

It really shouldn't take a full day, half a day, or a work day to learn a game.

 

Why not? Because you said so?

Because Mortal Online is a product. There are plenty of competing products out there that are demonstrably entertaining. Mortal Online on the other hand has no apparent redeeming features that would ever compell me to sink hours or days as well as money into understanding how to even begin to play the game.

 

And that's the beauty of individuality, because I have found redeeming, enjoyable qualities in MO that have kept me playing since it launched.  Learning the game, exploring the lay of the land, and not having my hand held at every turn, is a large part of that enjoyment.  It's more rewarding that way, as far as I'm concerned.

Everyone has different ideas of what's fun.  I know that many prefer a game to literally throw entertainment at them in the simplest way possible - exclamations over NPCs' heads, quests marked on mini-maps, etc.  Nothing wrong with that.  I prefer a more immersive game in which rewards me for learning, for figuring things out.  Very few games do that anymore.

If the expansion delivers I will try it out again.  Lets hope it does. . . not sure how they have survived this long actually.  .. and still developing as well.  Fingers crossed.

Originally posted by Uronksur

1. No, just because it is "different" doesn't mean it is worth figuring out. I place a much higher value on my time than that. Simply existing isn't good enough.

 A) I doubt you could even quantify what makes something worth your time, yet complaints are easy to make.

2. I'm not looking for instant gratification. I'm looking for a game that gives me a reason to continue after I've tried it out for 3-4 hours instead of wiping it's bloated self from my hard drive.

B) I doubt you could put to words what you consider 'a reason to continue playing', though it's satisfying to state you consider 3-4 hours of aimless wandering around enough gameplay to suit wiping the game from the HDD and never looking back.

I sincerely consider Mortal Online one of the best games out there that is "Cool to Hate".