Originally posted by Uhwop

And innovation does in fact literally mean something new.  It doesn't mean a slight change to an old idea

 snip

In my own little way, what I was saying was, when you get right down to it the innovation rating on the reviews here almost always boils down to answering the question, have we done this before.   Reread the innovation rating in the review and tell me that's not what it's saying in a nutshell

"Some may claim that Vanarch (the idea of voting in “rulers” of zones on a monthly basis) is a new twist, but it’s something that’s been done before with games like Archlord as well. The rest of this is stuff we’ve seen before. Even the BAMs, fun as they are, are ripped straight from titles like Monster Hunter"

 

 

god i hate this editor

Actually "yeah" a slight change to an old idea is an innovation. using a crank to start a car and then making it so that one only needs a small key is an innovation. YOu still have a starter mechanism but a slight change makes all the difference and is an innovation.

going from using a mouse to a touch screen is also an innovation. You still have icons that need to be clicked on and moved but getting rid of hardware and interfacing with just a hand is an innovation. Oh sure the technology is much more complex but to the user they are still double clicking and dragging icons just like they did with a mouse. The experience is practically the same but slightly more immediate.

innovations can be small but unique things that add better functionality, make the experience better.

As far as the second post, I believe the Archlord was done by taking over castles through combat. Not on a vote system.At least that was  my memory when I played the game.

Allowing for the general populace to determine a leader over might = right seems like an innovation to me.

I'm not trying to say that Tera is a ground breaking game. It's not. But its innovations are small but palpable. What drags it down is its horrible quest system and an end game that doesn't seem very well thought out.

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Originally posted by I_Return

Finito, doesn't quite end the conversation for the lack of depth in the review. So much missing in most mmo reviews and readers never get any information in a review about the end game. Doing a mid level raid is nothing like end game raids, mid level pvp is nothing like end level pvp, ect and so on.

 

I think your review is incomplete, and it has failed your audience, in my opinion. I personally am not going to be overly excited about the score, cause I'm not playing the game, but  fans will. That is where the trouble lies, cause once that bond is broken between reviewer and fan or readers, it is never resealed.

 

I don't even play the game and can easily see from here that is is an 8.0 or higher. The ammount of detail and respect to character development makes SWTOR look like a board game.

This review is the summary of five separate pieces. Please see the previous articles linked at the introduction. Though, I'm sure you read that, right? 

Are you a tank in TERA Bill, because you do a great job standing your ground. 

I think your score is pretty spot on, perhaps a tad on the high side, but that's because I'm a much tougher grader than most. (there has never, ever been a MMORPG higher than 8.5 on my grading scale)

And it appears despite what some have said, your rating is pretty much in line with the marketplace in general.

Metacritic has 19 reviewers averaging out the score at 80/100 and users rating it at 7.7/10

I do have to agree with almost all your points, one thing that helps in my case is I don't mind quest hub grinding, if you have to grind, might as well be quests vs camps. (some of the upper level quests are quite good btw, you'll see)

The greatest downside IMO is the lack of meaningful end game content.  In my case, this means territory control a la L2, not raiding a la WOW. I'd like to see more rewards for PVPing as well, right now people pretty much do it for "fun" which has little appeal in my case.

Originally posted by Pivotelite

Originally posted by cyress8

Originally posted by Pivotelite

Originally posted by BadSpock

TERA does very well at being an extremely mediocre game.

7.7 is perfect.

 The game itself is not mediocre, it just doesn't provide what you specifically want in a game.

 What exactly can it provide besides combat and the constant LFG spam.  There really is nothing else to do in the game but quest and bam grind.  Even the PvP is not that good.

 Not liking the PvP is your opinion, also some people like quest grind. But calling the game itself "mediocre" or saying it "screams" f2p like a poster way back is not fair to the game and it's developers.

The graphics are easily the best of any MMO out right now, art style aside, as that is preferential.

The world is larger than Vanilla WoW, easily, what titles release with a world that size lately? Not to mention that world has collision detection, full hitboxes and top tier graphics and is an open world, all while running considerably well on most computers with highest settings!

Animations are crisp and well done, character models are very high quality.

The UI is fully customizable, even more so than Rifts, it comes with a LFG tool and a very unique auction house. Same can not be sa for some other games that released recently...*COUGH*.

Your preferences on the game aside and what gameplay it delivers to you, it's the things mentioned above that make this game anything but mediocre or screaming of f2p.

Exactly.

For a mediocre run-of-the-mill completely safe and standard with a unique gimmick (combat/vanarchs) or two AAA subscription based MMO, it is very good.

7.7 is a perfect score for the game, IMO.

It is quite good at what it is trying to do, be exactly like everyone else but have better combat and a few other interesting mechanics.

Well, that is until a few months or weeks from now when most people reach end-game and the mass exodus occurs, which always happens with these "same pig with new lipstick" games.

I think 7.7 is a good score for TERA.  [mod edit - off topic]

[mod edit]

Originally posted by Finit

I think 7.7 is a good score for TERA. [mod edit - off topic]

[mod edit]

TERA is still very new and very shiney.

7.7 is probably a more accurate long-term review[mod edit]

While Tera is not a sandbox...I'm not so sure i'd go as far as calling it a themepark either.  I'd say its somewhere in the middle.  Fun game

Originally posted by afhn2110

While Tera is not a sandbox...I'm not so sure i'd go as far as calling it a themepark either.  I'd say its somewhere in the middle.  Fun game

uuuh what?!

[mod edit]

Fair enough, thanks for the thoughtful reply.

7.7, can't decide if it's fair or a bit low? :D

Originally posted by cyress8

Originally posted by Pivotelite

Originally posted by BadSpock

TERA does very well at being an extremely mediocre game.

7.7 is perfect.

 The game itself is not mediocre, it just doesn't provide what you specifically want in a game.

 

 

 What exactly can it provide besides combat and the constant LFG spam.  There really is nothing else to do in the game but quest and bam grind.  Even the PvP is not that good.

^^This.   In a nutshell.  Also...isn't mediocre the same as saying middle ground...so wouldn't a 5 be a middle ground score?  Anything higher seems wrong to me.  I personally would give the game a 3 but I rate games based on would I keep playing them or how much fun I had.  I had NO fun playing Tera to level 30 and I lost all interest to play on that same day, just had no drive to log back in.  That speaks volumes.   A few days later I'm smack in the middle of GW2 BWE and never wanting to log off and going through withdrawal once the weekend was over.  Very next weekend, got to play TSW and same thing, loved the game and didn't want to stop playing.  

Anyway this thread is cracking me up, considering SWTOR's rating is causing some consternation.  Poor Bioware/EA.  I almost feel sorry for them, but you know what they say.  You reap what you sow.

[mod edit

Thank you for the review.

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Originally posted by Finit

I think 7.7 is a good score for TERA.  [mod edit]

 

 

I think that's the general concensus of the user's here on the site, yes. The forum folks especially. But generally, we are the minority. What you're asking me to do is to play in to what our readership now believes SWTOR to be. But I would never ask our writing staff to do that. Mike rated SWTOR as honestly as he could at the time of his review, just as I've done here. In the future, BioWare's game will be re-reviewed (possibly by Mike). Will the score stay the same? Will it go up or down? Who's to say?

Additionally, when I assign reviews I make a point to ask our staff NOT to worry about what any other game has received as a score. Think of it this way, each game and its review should be taken completely separately from the others. Just because I think TERA is more fun than SWTOR does not mean I somehow have to make its score calculate out to be higher than Mike's view of SWTOR. That's the piece that's important there... each review is by one of several different reviewers.

If anything, ask me what I think of SWTOR these days, after initially believing the title was closer to a 9 in my first impressions piece. Yep... I once thought SWTOR was worth a 9. Or higher. But that luster faded.

And not to defend DCUO, but rather the score I assigned it back when. That was before the new rating system we've been using since June of 2011. If I were to go back and hold DCUO at launch to this rating system, chances are my score would come out closer to TERA's here, likely lower. And yes, DCUO too will be subject to a re-review in due time. Possibly later this summer.

I hope, possibly against hope, that this clears up some misconceptions about our reviews and how we weight them against each other (hint, we don't). I'm off to my home base, where I shall be playing some Secret World for a bit.

 

Just more reason to question the point of a rating system. They are so arbitrary and prone to problems. 

I particularly like how SWTOR got an 8 for innovation, based on what exactly...voice overs? Tera brings a completely new style of combat (that thing you engage in 90% of gametime) and a political system to a non-lobby-based MMO, and it gets a 6, lol. Please.

The 9.5 for TOR's "polish" is equally amusing. Exactly how is Tera less polished after having a year of refinement in Korea before launching in the west? Clipping? You mean like swimming underwater in SWTOR? Haven't noticed it myself. 

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by Kanester

8.5 - 9.0 for me.... 7.7 is a Joke.

5.0 to 6.0 for me....8.5 - 9.0 is a joke.

*grins*

See, after a long string of errands, they sent me to kill some trees and I was also hovering around a 5.0. I admit I began to lose faith. Then, they sent me to kill some slightly older trees and I understood we were clearly dealing with a 6. After a bit of errand running that score was fast approaching an 8.

Then I recalled that this wasn't a contest for 'most flacid representation of MMO cliches blindly adhered to because, what, you expect us to think? Plus, half naked elf guys, yo.' or 'least amount of creative input required to get people to pay you for rehashed trash'. 

This game is the epitome of lazy and uninspired online games designed to take advantage of a dry release period (and possibly some very specific fetishes). It has no substance and should not exist in 2012.

Plus, these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDbDrHEQEv0. Classy! Quality commentary, Cro-Magnon!  Clear display of skills.

Does hitting the keys that hard make ones character hit harder or did his fingers just fuse together to form a giant gnarled club as evolution tried desperately to correct some obvious mistakes?

5.0 tops. It lost points for being bad.

Originally posted by Valkaern

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by Kanester

8.5 - 9.0 for me.... 7.7 is a Joke.

5.0 to 6.0 for me....8.5 - 9.0 is a joke.

*grins*

See, after a long string of errands, they sent me to kill some trees and I was also hovering around a 5.0. I admit I began to lose faith. Then, they sent me to kill some slightly older trees and I understood we were clearly dealing with a 6. After a bit of errand running that score was fast approaching an 8.

Then I recalled that this wasn't a contest for 'most flacid representation of MMO cliches blindly adhered to because, what, you expect us to think? Plus, half naked elf guys, yo.' or 'least amount of creative input required to get people to pay you for rehashed trash'. 

This game is the epitome of lazy and uninspired online games designed to take advantage of a dry release period (and possibly some very specific fetishes). It has no substance and should not exist in 2012.

Plus, these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDbDrHEQEv0. Classy! Quality commentary, Cro-Magnon!  Clear display of skills.

Does hitting the keys that hard make ones character hit harder or did his fingers just fuse together to form a giant gnarled club as evolution tried desperately to correct some obvious mistakes?

5.0 tops. It lost points for being bad.

Best. Post. Ever.

[mod edit] TERA doesn't do anything of the sort. The quests are probably the most boring quests for an AAA title in a very long time. Questing in WoW was at least streamlined and flowed well., and in SW:TOR you got an immerssive, personalized situation in each quest. In TERA they're chaotic and confusing, not to mention boring. The combat in this game is fantastic, the graphics are gorgeous and the music/atmosphere and world design is incredible. I'd like to see revamps done on questing, and maybe some new content that takes advantage of exploration in this game because the world is so beautiful and so big. Some sandbox content would fit this game beautifully, and I usually hate sandbox games. I think the rating he's given this game is appropriate, especially when you actually read the review.

Originally posted by Valkaern

 

See, after a long string of errands, they sent me to kill some trees and I was also hovering around a 5.0. I admit I began to lose faith. Then, they sent me to kill some slightly older trees and I understood we were clearly dealing with a 6. After a bit of errand running that score was fast approaching an 8.

Then I recalled that this wasn't a contest for 'most flacid representation of MMO cliches blindly adhered to because, what, you expect us to think? Plus, half naked elf guys, yo.' or 'least amount of creative input required to get people to pay you for rehashed trash'. 

This game is the epitome of lazy and uninspired online games designed to take advantage of a dry release period (and possibly some very specific fetishes). It has no substance and should not exist in 2012.

Plus, these guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDbDrHEQEv0. Classy! Quality commentary, Cro-Magnon!  Clear display of skills.

Does hitting the keys that hard make ones character hit harder or did his fingers just fuse together to form a giant gnarled club as evolution tried desperately to correct some obvious mistakes?

5.0 tops. It lost points for being bad.

lol funny and pretty much how I feel so far playing the game.. although the art is great the world is like you say lazy and REALLY uninspired... They seem to of put a lot of work into the graphics but asthetics are really really bad, oh well good for some mindless fun for a couple weeks.

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Originally posted by bluemagi

But what really pissed me off about this game is calling it an "Asian Grinder". 

 But I didn't call it one. If you read that paragraph again, you'll see that I said it would be one without its other features and content. And no, the term's not racist either. I don't think I have to explain why.

In fact, you might want to read the review and realize that I LIKE the game you came in to defend before going into a blind rage post.

LOL you must not have played much of it, either that or you are buying into this BS about end game content that is coming eventually. AS the game sits now it is nothing but another  Asian grinder, counting on the fact that american gamers, correction american's in general have become total and complete morons.

These guys took a F2P asian grinder, 1 of a million just like it and convinced americans that don't know any better that it is different and innovative, thankfully however only a small amount of our overall population of idiots actually fell for this one.

But hey I'm not judging in fact I feel sorry for you, you are just one more victim of our governments slave class mentality agenda public education conditioning program. Sadly you may not even be the first generation, we now have 3 generations that have been educated to be non thinking, compliant, worker drones.
 

Hmm so the bottom line is that Tera deserves an unhyped, rational review based on as objective as possible criteria while all other games dont deserve this "privilege" and are reviewed under hype and mass hysteria (read: ave GW2).

Korean creators of this non-innovative, asian grinder should be honored.

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by cyress8

Originally posted by Pivotelite

Originally posted by BadSpock

TERA does very well at being an extremely mediocre game.

7.7 is perfect.

 The game itself is not mediocre, it just doesn't provide what you specifically want in a game.

 

 

 What exactly can it provide besides combat and the constant LFG spam.  There really is nothing else to do in the game but quest and bam grind.  Even the PvP is not that good.

^^This.   In a nutshell.  Also...isn't mediocre the same as saying middle ground...so wouldn't a 5 be a middle ground score?  Anything higher seems wrong to me.  I personally would give the game a 3 but I rate games based on would I keep playing them or how much fun I had.  I had NO fun playing Tera to level 30 and I lost all interest to play on that same day, just had no drive to log back in.  That speaks volumes.   A few days later I'm smack in the middle of GW2 BWE and never wanting to log off and going through withdrawal once the weekend was over.  Very next weekend, got to play TSW and same thing, loved the game and didn't want to stop playing.  

Anyway this thread is cracking me up, considering SWTOR's rating is causing some consternation.  Poor Bioware/EA.  I almost feel sorry for them, but you know what they say.  You reap what you sow.

 

Fun factor is even more subjective then a score broken up into specific components like MMORPG.com's system. By your system, I would rate GW2 a 3 and TSW a 1. I didn't feel like logging on at all for GW2 after 3 days, which is perfect since that was the length of the test. TSW I played for about 5 hours one day and never logged in again. They're clearly not 3 and 1 score games though, but by your ridiculous system they would be.

Originally posted by Valentina

[mod edit]  TERA doesn't do anything of the sort. The quests are probably the most boring quests for an AAA title in a very long time. Questing in WoW was at least streamlined and flowed well., and in SW:TOR you got an immerssive, personalized situation in each quest. In TERA they're chaotic and confusing, not to mention boring. The combat in this game is fantastic, the graphics are gorgeous and the music/atmosphere and world design is incredible. I'd like to see revamps done on questing, and maybe some new content that takes advantage of exploration in this game because the world is so beautiful and so big. Some sandbox content would fit this game beautifully, and I usually hate sandbox games. I think the rating he's given this game is appropriate, especially when you actually read the review.

 

 

Combat isn't a basic function? Graphics isn't a basic function? WoW never does anything for either, but its expansions consistently get 9.0+ scores. You basically listed the reasons why other MMOs got high scores, then listed comparable reasons for TERA but proceeded to say it deserved its middling score. Contradict yourself much?