MMORPG's are so bad right now that I am in no danger of becoming addicted to anything.  In fact, I am spending far too much (mostly all) time in real life.  I like some aspects of GW2 and see myself playing it casually as long as I have friends playing it.  The triple A MMORPG genre though is just not fun anymore.  There is no challenge, only time commitment.  Hot key cooldown combat really isn't all that great though.  It's just not exciting enough.  It seems that most activities in MMORPG's are fairly meaningless and the games are designed so even a chimp would never "lose".  I have no faith in the big developers but I am betting we will see some cool things from smaller developers and modders.  The DayZ mod for Arma2 is a great example.  The mod caused a nearly 3 year old rather buggy and unpopular game to suddenly start out selling CoD and BF3.  Score one for the underdog!  All it takes is a little innovation.  Games like Mount and Blade Warband have shown us how fun medieval combat could be, but of course everyone seems to want hot key cooldown tab target instead.  Does anyone actually enjoy killing 10 mobs?  I doubt it, but I bet a lot of people think they do.  MMORPG's are like one big social experiment, and people have shown the researchers that they can be tricked into paying to do something boring.  It's crazyiness!!!

Originally posted by MindTrigger

As someone who has been gaming my whole life, and I am now 40 years old, I say this discussion is subjective.  I'm sure some people are burned out, especially people who have been playing for 8 hours per day for years, but I also believe strongly that the genre has stagnated.

I've been playing FPS games since Quake 1 and prior (Wolfenstien, Doom, Descent ,etc).  I've never grown tired of the FPS genre in all these years because it has continued to innovate.  Some years it's the same, but the FPS makers know they need to continously move their technology forward in their games, or they will be in the bargain bin soon after shipping.

Recently, I started playing Tribes:Ascend, which is the spiritual successor to Tribes 2, and I am absolutely loving it.  They have moved this old game forward, added unlocks, a cash shop and other cool things, and people are eating it up.  I would buy more skins from their cash shop if they will hurry up and put some more in there.  The game is an absolute joy to play, and requires much more skill than any of the other modern FPS games out there.

What I have seen in my time with MMO games, is that they have slowly been dumbed down. The games have been getting simpler, and people are getting bored.  It's fine that WoW brough millions of 'casual' gamers to the market, but I believe it is a mistake to believe that these casual gamers are not going to evolve and want more depth in these games.  Unfortunately, the refinements to the theme-park and story aspects of these games has meant removal of the virtual world aspects of them.  We also haven't seen much innovation in how the world responds to us and that interaction, and AI in these games is pathetic.  Many people who love PvP love it for the same reason I love playing FPS games; because AI doesn't come close to the wit and  skill of a real player on the other end of the network.

At any rate, it's up to the individuals to decide how they see the genre, but from my view, MMO's really need to start making some new leaps.  People evolve, and even casual players who make up the lion's share of the market are asking for more now.  Remember, most of these new people never had the joy of playing the old hardcore games, or a good fun sandbox with a rich community.  I don't believe those days are gone, and I feel there will be room for them again, only with the polish and refinement we have come to expect these days.

+

Originally posted by Drokar

 

I also notice gamers seem to bash games simply because of the lack of innovation.  This is what I just do not get.  These are games, they are not designed to replace your life.  They will all revolve around killing monsters, doing quests, PVP in some form or another - that's it... it will never get any better.  The graphics will never replace the real world outside.  

 

And why shouldn't I be dissatisfied that developers bring nothing unique, innovative and different to the gaming table? I am a customer, a gamer. It is the gamer's and the dollars they bring that are targeted. I would rather play a game then go to a movie, this is my choice of entertainment.

The basic concept of an MMORPG is not in question. But why does this concept  have to follow along the same track as their predecessors? Why are we seeing the same focus on content in these highly marketed, big name games?

The problem is, big name developers have the resources to develop and market to the masses, to create and sell the hype and to cater to subscription numbers not depth of content. WoW is not to blame, it is a fine game in its own right and was different when it was first released in comparison to other online games at the that time. It implemented fresh and new ideas. So why now, when developers have all the more money to back these online projects, do we have regurgitated content and second hand ideas?

This is why I bash games based on lack of innovation. Not because my life revolves around MMO's but because I believe that they are capable of so much more.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

 Does anyone actually enjoy killing 10 mobs?  I doubt it, but I bet a lot of people think they do.  MMORPG's are like one big social experiment, and people have shown the researchers that they can be tricked into paying to do something boring.  It's crazyiness!!!

Of course they do, as long as the combat is fun. Look at the huge success of D3. It is nothing but kill 10000000 mobs.

And i love that game.

Awesome job of generalising millions of players.

To answer the question posed in your thread title. Its bad MMOs.

I have been playing fighting games for over 20 years now, and I am not bored of that genre, but there are certainly new fighting games that I have tried that are crap and deserve my criticism. Games in other genres often get trashed by reviewers and players alike. Perhaps you should ask yourself, why do you think the MMO genre should be treated any different?

Why do you think we should have lower standards for MMOs and just eat up any crap that the developers wish to spoon feed us?

Do you honestly think that the MMOs released lately even come close to the quality of MMOs from over 6 years ago?

At the end of the day, its our money and we can spend it as we choose, and we are entitled to our opinions about what products are worth our money. If you are satisified with the sub-standard releases of late, then good for you. You can go spend your money on it and tell us that you think those games are awesome, but you have no right to tell us that our opinions are worth less than yours and that they are simply because we are jaded with the entire genre.

Most of the supposedly jaded players who are 'bored of the genre' are still happily playing older MMOs. We are just bored of the constant hype and let down of current releases.

Its up to the gaming companies to make us happy, its not our job to fool ourselves into believing that we are happy with a product that we dont feel is up to scratch.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Does anyone actually enjoy killing 10 mobs?  I doubt it, but I bet a lot of people think they do.

Or maybe we do.

I like combat. I play for the combat. I hate crafting. I hate fishing. I do like pvp though.

But when I go through an elderscrolls game I love exploring and destroyign the monsters I find. Same wiht an mmo.

The problem with mmo's is that they sort of have thing ass backwards.

Instead of saying "go out and kill 10 of these" they should say "go to x fortress and find the y". As they go throuhg X fortress they ill inevitably kill 10 mobs looking for the y.

In one case you have a checlist of 10 mobs to kill. in the other case there is a greater purpose and in order to achieve that purpose you kill 10 mobs (or so).

I can assure you that I like combat both pvp and pve. I would rather explore and kill mobs over the whoel qeust hub thing.

It's not so much bad MMO's, it's just they are too much alike (standard theme parks a la WOW)

There are other ways to create MMO's (see EVE) however most modern MMO's follow a formula that I'm a bit tired of honestly.

So no, I'm not bored of the genre, MMO's have most definitely gotten stale and evolved (devolved?) in ways I don't care for.

The solution to being bored of doing something is to either do something else or take a nap. Unfortunately, more and more, when people get bored they go online and generate some kind of drama to relieve them of their boredom.

Which brings us to online forums.

I think as players, our tastes have grown. Our desires and demands of the genre have become more refined. I don't think we're bored with the genre per say. But I think what we want, or at least, what "sells" us changes faster than the industry can keep up with. 

The MMO industry as a whole is a growing, breathing, ever changing beast. Those changes come slowly. The games we receive today began development anywhere from 3 to 5 years ago. 

Originally posted by Meleagar

The solution to being bored of doing something is to either do something else or take a nap. Unfortunately, more and more, when people get bored they go online and generate some kind of drama to relieve them of their boredom.

Which brings us to online forums.

The cure-all.

Man, I need a nap....................

Which isn't to say that MMOGs aren't boring - most are. So is most TV, and so are most movies that come out. So is most music.  Unfortunately, there are very few instances where truly innovative, creative talent teams up with high-quality production values and produces a product popular enough to survive.

Originally posted by Corehaven

I play all sorts of games.  Mmorpgs included.  I play all kinds though.  

 

Know where Ive seen the absolute least amount of innovation in the entire gaming industry as a whole?  Mmorpgs.  Period. 

 

That has a LOT to do with it.  Take my word for it.  Meanwhile I really dont like people saying, "Its just YOU!  You are the problem! ".   I guess there's some strange truth to that.  Most people dont like the smell of poop either.  Its not the poops fault, its THEM!  Which is really kind of true, but you dont blame anyone for not liking poop.  You just blame them for not appreciating the same mechanics and no significant change to the mmo genre in years. 

 

Truth is, variety is the spice of life.  And for many mmo players, it feels like they've been eating the exact same brand of cerial for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, for.......years.  Literally years.  Going on decade. 

 

So yea its them.   I dont blame them one bit. 

That was well said, and nicely sums up my opinion.

It's not just me as I still to this day find MMOs (and non MMOs) that I love, we just had an unfortunately long and stale period in MMO development when creativity ground to a halt as everyone scrambled for a piece of WoWs pie - sadly they sidled up to the table with an inferior imitation of WoW as their meal ticket.

It didn't work out well, over all.

There's a handful of great MMOs out there (mostly made prior to WoW imo), and GW2 just proved to me that great games can still be made, unfortunately in the wake of WoW there was an indisputable span of years that produced some god awful attempts at MMOs. 

Its not exactly bad MMOs, but like so many others say, the genre is stale. Its the same quest system, same crafting mechanics, same fantasy core, same everything with different shaders and textures and world design. When Tera launched I posted in the Tera forums that the game really wasnt anything new, just a different spin on the same design with a twist on combat, but just a small twist. And how the developers dropped the ball on PvP when their combat system is what it is..well its just a wonder...but I digress....

The genre needs innovation or im back to being a FPS/single player RPG person for good. Im sure that innovation is going to eventually happen, but when it happens is up in the air. Im not paying to kill 10 wolfs again, period. No matter how viciously pretty the wolves are looking. Im not willing to accept rep and dungeon grinds as endgame anymore. Thats why I quit Rift 2 weeks after I hit level cap.

And more and more people are starting to feel this way, apparently.

I think it's both/and, not either/or. That is, MMORPG's as a genre have stagnated AND gamers have become jaded and these form a vicious cycle. Devs have the impossible task of trying to satisfy at least three categories: Solo PvE, PVP, multiplayer pve--all while trying to provide meaningful end game and a crafting system that isn't a complete waste of time. The problem is it becomes a zero sum game. Throw a benefit to pvp, and the carebears howl in protest; beef up a classes' survivability, then people whine that it might as well be a single-player game; beef up multiplayer dungeons and then it's "forced grouping! rawr!" and by trying to please everyone, they end up pleasing no one.

Originally posted by Drokar

These are games, they are not designed to replace your life.

 

Unfortunately this, all too often, is not the case. Development studios often put a great deal of study and effort into figuring out ways to entice players into treating their games as if they were the player's life.

The themepark sub-genre has stagnated considerably since 2004.

Not at all surprised that many  people are burned out and bored with the genre as it stands (myself included.)

Though there are a few games releasing in the near future that hold the promise of something different, and as such the hype and expectations are high.

The sandbox sub-genre has remained largely unchanged since the dawn of the entire MMORPG genre.

I'd really like to see some innovation and original ideas come forth in the sandbox sub-genre.

As it stands, it's simply too niche and (IMO) the archaic game design of many "new" sandbox games really, really hold the sandbox sub-genre back.

They are just bored of ever mmorpg pretty much copy and paste wow's formula's without the devs ever trying to innovate them at all. Only mmo I am waiting for atm is Phantasy Star Online 2, because even from the videos it does not look anything like  wow clone like Gw2, swtor, rift, and pretty much every other release the last 4-6 years ended up being. Players are just finally geting sick of it and starting to show it. GW2 while it looks ok is just wow again just you go to hearts insted of town quest hubs, its the same shit as wow pretty much with no choices on where to go zone wise in your lv range either I bet.

Single player games kinda have the same issues too, its the same shitty games being redone over and over, with the only ones saving gaming being the indie devs since they are the only ones who will take a risk. Space pirates and zombies and terraria are 2 of the funnest games I have played in the last 5-6 years. Starbound which is bascally a Terraria clone will be next on the list, Starbound is bascally Terraria on crack with vast improvments like multiple worlds and such. Here is the website: http://playstarbound.com/

One of the guys who used to work on Terraria now is on the Starbound team. best thing is both games are modable so you can replay them over and over with new mods, I use about 10 diff mods for terraria that add hundreds of new items, monsters and such to the game. No modability is why i think D3 sucks and will suck compared to Torchlight 2. I bought D3 and i regret buying a boxed copy because I cannot get a refund on it, if I got it driect from blizzard I could.

I thought long and hard about this thread topic as I read through all the pages of replies, and I came to the conclusion that there were 2 MMO's that really entertained me: pre-NGE Starwars Galaxies and EVE. The only 2 games that kept me totally entertained for years, not months.

And why only those two ? Because I could not play those games the way I wanted to play them by playing solo. I needed to form social contacts in both those games to fully enjoy the game. And "fully enjoying the game" (in my case) did not remotely involve running the same dailies or dungeons a thousand times over and over.

I treat "modern" themepark MMO's like single-player games nowadays. Play to level-cap and leave. The journey to cap is usually entertaining and varied, but I seem to get there quicker with each new game I play. I'm not a "rush-to-cap" type player, I like to stop and enjoy the scenery, which usually irritates the hell out of any groupmates (on those rare occasions that I need to group for content... ). But leveling-up keeps getting faster and easier.

Originally posted by Meleagar

Which isn't to say that MMOGs aren't boring - most are. So is most TV, and so are most movies that come out. So is most music.  Unfortunately, there are very few instances where truly innovative, creative talent teams up with high-quality production values and produces a product popular enough to survive.

You don't have time to play/watch them all anyway.

There are more than enough fun stuff to keep us entertained.