http://gemtrix.com/2012/05/star-wars-an-empire-divided-vs-star-wars-the-old-republic-a-gemtrix-survey/ 

They Shut this down on the official forums, so I thought I would bring it over here. I didn't put it up originally but thought it was interesting.

Interesting.  I will admit as buggy as SWG was I have yet to play a MMO since then that gave you so much freedom to do anything you almost wanted to do.

SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

Originally posted by mmcguire2

SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

 

Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.

As buggy and as broken as SWG was, its still a far better MMO than SWTOR can ever hope to be.

TOR has pluses in it, if just due to it being more modern in the survey.

I think the biggest problem for SoE was Lucas Arts, when you have a IP, and they have ultimate control and final say, it can be like a football team with a owner that thinks he should be the GM/Coach.  This plagued SWG, and to be honest, I would not be suprised if it doesn't hit (may have already to an extent) TOR.

SWG should of focused on fixing things, adding more SWG style content, fix battlefields and such that were not working, and some balance work (inculding toning buffs down some).  If SWG failed, and they did all this, then there ya go, but they turned away from what it was supposed to be somewhat and alienated people.

TOR - We will see how LA handles the population problems now, and see if they force a type of NGE on it?

I played both, but to be honest, I am more of a D&D fantasy type player.....I think anytime you make major changes to your game, you risk having it blow up on you....Unfortunatley, someone usually does it to every MMO...

EQ - You had the LDoN type content, that eventually became what could be termed WoW-lite, due to WoW taking the direction and putting it on steriods...  I prefered the more open and non-instanced play...Even though, I can deal with it...Just became too much.

UO - The current game is too far from its roots, imo.  I dislike the current skill combo systems, and changes, and the crafting/equipment stuff is too far from it's roots...If they ever brought out a official classic type server I wold be there (and no, I am not a 'griefer', I was more explorer/crafter).

I guess what some call even more content, I call screwing up the current content, it is a fine line...

Originally posted by aktalat

Originally posted by mmcguire2

SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

 

Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.

Well, if you look at who designed much of SWG, it was littered with UO people, thats why I brought up design change in my post...Game was changed from what it was meant to be, when it just needed fixes and more content styled to what it was supposed to be.  I think LA had a lot to do with this not happening, I had never seen a company change a MMO so drastically before on their own.

Originally posted by Deerhunter71

Interesting.  I will admit as buggy as SWG was I have yet to play a MMO since then that gave you so much freedom to do anything you almost wanted to do.

I am still at a loss for how people say SWg gave you freedom to do so much.  You could either craft or kill things well and of course decorate but I have yet to play an mmo that I felt was more or less restrictive than SWG people speak as if you could enter the game world and immediately start to hunt rancors or something.

SWG was as gated as any mmmorpg out there given that you had to grind for those first six to eight months to reach your advanced class which was when you really gained the freedom to go out and explore most of what the world had to offer which wasn't much.

Where SWG was beyond reproach was in the overwhelmingly strong community, at that point most people were in maybe the third or fourth mmo they played and lot's of us it was the first I've had better cars than the first clunker I drove but I tend to remember those experiences in reference to the vehicle much fonder than later experiences and this is exactly how I see SWG.

For me I've had just as great community experiences in games from COH,LOTRO and yes even TOR the biggest difference was in those games I often had to push myself a little more to engage in those activities because there was genuinely so much more to do that you didn't need to depend on others to entertain you and in SWG that was all there was it was a huge empty world with some really decent systems but none self sustaining it always required others.  Which on one hand is not a bad design philosophy but ultimately it's one that can't be sustained in a field that depends so much on numbers like number of subscribers etc.

It wasn't a bad game but there is no way you'll get me to say I'd ever trade in my porsche for the old dodge neon.

SWG had limitless potential. If the dev team that it ended with had been there in the beginning the industry would be full of SWG clones and sandboxes instead of borparks.

I would take SWG with SWTORs worlds and story.

Both games have/had deep flaws that could be fixed with a blending of the two games.

SWTORs story, space combat and detailed world design.

SWGs, open worlds, crafting, RP items/aspects/guild event creation.

Leave out the vast empty void that was the depth of both games, and the cheap programming shortcuts SWG took with no 3D X/Y axis that allowed shooting through the ground/walls, no jumping, mounts that were supposed to be several feet above the ground yet stopped on a pebble...the random generated planet design...and the generic space flight sim.

That would be a damn good MMO...but too many fans only care about what "they" like personally instead of fighting for an MMO that has aspects for all types of players...better to have a game with small population I guess.

Originally posted by aktalat

Originally posted by mmcguire2

SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

 

Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.

Out of curiosity what exactly are you considering "content" as stated in my earlier post I saw SWG with about four or five really good "systems" (rulesets governing certain aspects of gameplay) but content?

I recall a few caves you could walk into and fight tos of monsters to reach the back of a cave where there was someone waiting for you and more often than not whatever the person was supposed to initiate was bugged and if you didn't know how to find out about the bugs you often didn't know that the encounter was broken.

I remember some quasi quest line involving the heroes from the original trilogy and recall that being extremely anti climactic as well.

Great community game extremely content light in my opinion it was basically Star Wars "the sims".

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Originally posted by raistlinm

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Originally posted by aktalat

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Originally posted by mmcguire2 SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...  

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Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.

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Out of curiosity what exactly are you considering "content" as stated in my earlier post I saw SWG with about four or five really good "systems" (rulesets governing certain aspects of gameplay) but content?

I recall a few caves you could walk into and fight tos of monsters to reach the back of a cave where there was someone waiting for you and more often than not whatever the person was supposed to initiate was bugged and if you didn't know how to find out about the bugs you often didn't know that the encounter was broken.

I remember some quasi quest line involving the heroes from the original trilogy and recall that being extremely anti climactic as well.

Great community game extremely content light in my opinion it was basically Star Wars "the sims".

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I feel that player made content is still content. Doesnt have to be a dungeon made by developers to be considered legitimate content. SWG allowed players to make their own stories and content especially when the storyteller system was implemented. Player made content > developer made content every time.

Originally posted by Xthos

TOR has pluses in it, if just due to it being more modern in the survey.

 

I think the biggest problem for SoE was Lucas Arts, when you have a IP, and they have ultimate control and final say, it can be like a football team with a owner that thinks he should be the GM/Coach

(*cough* Dallas cowboys)  .

 

  This plagued SWG, and to be honest, I would not be suprised if it doesn't hit (may have already to an extent) TOR.

SWG should of focused on fixing things, adding more SWG style content, fix battlefields and such that were not working, and some balance work (inculding toning buffs down some).  If SWG failed, and they did all this, then there ya go, but they turned away from what it was supposed to be somewhat and alienated people.

 

TOR - We will see how LA handles the population problems now, and see if they force a type of NGE on it?

 

I played both, but to be honest, I am more of a D&D fantasy type player.....I think anytime you make major changes to your game, you risk having it blow up on you....Unfortunatley, someone usually does it to every MMO...

EQ - You had the LDoN type content, that eventually became what could be termed WoW-lite, due to WoW taking the direction and putting it on steriods...  I prefered the more open and non-instanced play...Even though, I can deal with it...Just became too much.

UO - The current game is too far from its roots, imo.  I dislike the current skill combo systems, and changes, and the crafting/equipment stuff is too far from it's roots...If they ever brought out a official classic type server I wold be there (and no, I am not a 'griefer', I was more explorer/crafter).

 

I guess what some call even more content, I call screwing up the current content, it is a fine line...

Originally posted by DannyGlover

 

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Originally posted by raistlinm

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Originally posted by aktalat

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Originally posted by mmcguire2 SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...  

---

Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.

---

Out of curiosity what exactly are you considering "content" as stated in my earlier post I saw SWG with about four or five really good "systems" (rulesets governing certain aspects of gameplay) but content?

 

I recall a few caves you could walk into and fight tos of monsters to reach the back of a cave where there was someone waiting for you and more often than not whatever the person was supposed to initiate was bugged and if you didn't know how to find out about the bugs you often didn't know that the encounter was broken.

I remember some quasi quest line involving the heroes from the original trilogy and recall that being extremely anti climactic as well.

Great community game extremely content light in my opinion it was basically Star Wars "the sims".

 

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I feel that player made content is still content. Doesnt have to be a dungeon made by developers to be considered legitimate content. SWG allowed players to make their own stories and content especially when the storyteller system was implemented. Player made content > developer made content every time.

As in getting together a bunch of friends and deciding to pseudo pen and paper only in the game world?  If so then every game has limitless content it's just that again many games with active quests etc. the players aren't  doing that because there is no need to and I can't blame the devs for not forcing the playerbase into certain roles and as far as the user generated content that came waaaay down the line much closer to the end of this game than the start and it certainly wasn't in pre cu or nge which seems to be what the person I was asking is basing his experiences on.

Swtor>swg

by a long shot.

Precu SWG was a much more compelling game.  Does anyone here think that 9 years later people will still be speaking fondly of SWTOR?  Not a chance. 

Precu SWG was a much deeper game that offered many layers of play.  SWTOR is a straight line, point a to point b.  Very boring, very forgettable. It is little more than a co op game if you are completely honest with yourself.  There are many games outside of the mmo genre that offer more player interaction, whereas Precu SWG had noninstanced housing, cities, world pvp the the tef system, and an open world without all the instancing. 

SWG was far more immersive and complete as an MMORPG but it had more bugs and worse gfx and PvE compared to SW:TOR. If the budget spent on SW:TOR was spent on an SWG sequel (meaning based on the direction SWG had pre-CU) it would probably have been the best MMORPG ever made.

Haha, I was wondering when this thread would pop up. SWG is a way better mmo in my opinion and in fact was actually an mmo where SWTOR is not so much an mmo but a single player game with a subscription and with multiplayer capability. But what I cant help imagining is what could have been if SWG got the funding SWTOR received for development instead. I can only dream...

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Originally posted by raistlinm
As in getting together a bunch of friends and deciding to pseudo pen and paper only in the game world?  If so then every game has limitless content it's just that again many games with active quests etc. the players aren't  doing that because there is no need to and I can't blame the devs for not forcing the playerbase into certain roles and as far as the user generated content that came waaaay down the line much closer to the end of this game than the start and it certainly wasn't in pre cu or nge which seems to be what the person I was asking is basing his experiences on.

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Nope that wasnt what I was talking about. I was talking about players creating quest chains with boss fights and loot drops, player bounties, and player made city strongholds that could be attacked and defended. Real content, driven by players.

i played swg for 2 years and i played swtor for 4 weeks.