Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

Originally posted by Aerowyn

because swtor copied games of the past and copied them poorly.. try again

ive yet to see a legit source that clearly states they did.just the same bunch you see in every mmo that calls them wow clones.even if they dont look a thing like wow

ill see if I can find you the dev video but he clearly states you would be crazy not ot follow the "wow model" if anyone has it please post.. either way it's blatently obvious they took such a great IP like star wars added on an on rails story, cookie cutter trinity class/combat system with raiding and battlegrounds for endgame... such a shame for what a great game that IP could produce..

I remember watching that video too.  Thing is they made a Wow-light.  They forgot all the things that wow launched with that made the game feel more substantial.

Someone mentioned a death penalty - What is it?

I ask because it seems like the videos and streams I've watched people died and were rezzed over and over again in fights with what seemed like no penalty.

"GW2 is breaking that mold by doing a LOT of things differently"

"no trinity"

it all depends on how it gets implemented honestly

because swtor also did something different and said they got rid of auto attack.but all they did was make ita nother keybind to add to peoples keybinds.there still is an auto attack in swtor

same could be said about gw2.you have no trinity,but they still have healing skills.so it just makes people playing the classes that dont have a healing role in the first place work harder because of the company wanting to be new

maybe its just me though.thats one of the things i didnt like about swtor,and it looks the same type of deal in gw2

Originally posted by BadSpock

Just about every "major" MMO after WoW in 2004 has been a variation of the exact same thing -

WoW +/- gimmick -

WAR - WoW +/- RvR

AoC - WoW +/- adult content

Rift - WoW +/- public groups

TOR - WoW +/- story

TERA - WoW +/- aiming/dodge

TSW - WoW +/- skill deck leveling

 

GW2 is breaking that mold by doing a LOT of things differently, not just the one gimmick thing they do differently while everything else is the same:

-no trinity

-active combat

-dynamic events and hearts (kind of like combination of PQ's in WAR and Rifts in Rift combined, but better designed)

-underwater combat

-WvWvW (like RvR ala WAR/DAOC)

-conquest mode PvP (no gear, no stat difference, just player skill + builds)

-story (like TOR with personal, instanced story)

-less focus on gear/progression (level down scaling, no gear treadmill)

etc. etc. just to name a few.

Actually, in all honesty, WAR had quite a few brilliant, well thought out, innovative and "new" ideas like Public Quests, leveling 100% through PvP, and the Tome of Knowledge - their biggest problem was that the polish was God awful and the game was only about 60% finished when it launched.

If WAR would have launched at 100% and with good polish (and a decent engine for smooth game play) they had the IDEAS to really win - they just didn't have the follow through. If they would have, WAR would be the game everyone was copying after 2008 or whenever it was.

GW2 as played by hundreds of thousands of fans seems to have both the ideas AND the follow through, which is why people are so excited about it.

Best Quote I've read. And it is exactly what needs to be said. Say what you will, but GW 2 is doing this (see above) differently.  LIke it, hate it. They are doing it differently. And you can't sya that about any of the other mentioned titles.  Even with TWE, okay you have puzzle quests with realy cool handouts, its still Wow with puzzle quests with really cool handouts.  That is something any game can throw in, but the core of it, is still wow mechanics.  

Originally posted by helthros

Someone mentioned a death penalty - What is it?

 

I ask because it seems like the videos and streams I've watched people died and were rezzed over and over again in fights with what seemed like no penalty.

Think it's gear breaking and having to spend money to repair it. Also you lose some money if you have to rez at a waypoint. That's about it I belive.

Originally posted by helthros

Someone mentioned a death penalty - What is it?

 

I ask because it seems like the videos and streams I've watched people died and were rezzed over and over again in fights with what seemed like no penalty.

you loose money and have to start over at a waypoint.  Pretty much like dying in a an old school RPG and restarting at your save your point.  YOu also have broken and damaged armor.  Too much and you're running around in your skimpies. 

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"GW2 is breaking that mold by doing a LOT of things differently"

"no trinity"

it all depends on how it gets implemented honestly

because swtor also did something different and said they got rid of auto attack.but all they did was make ita nother keybind to add to peoples keybinds.there still is an auto attack in swtor

same could be said about gw2.you have no trinity,but they still have healing skills.so it just makes people playing the classes that dont have a healing role in the first place work harder because of the company wanting to be new

maybe its just me though.thats one of the things i didnt like about swtor,and it looks the same type of deal in gw2

 

I guess you have to play the game to really get it, cause you're missing a lot. There is no "healing " roll.  the heals that you can throw out, are either 1. too minascurle to dedicate yourself too or 2. things that increase the healing factor of other party members (meaning it only helps your opponents heals).  combat is deadly. So much that you just can'at stand around doing any one job for any one period of time.  

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"GW2 is breaking that mold by doing a LOT of things differently"

"no trinity"

it all depends on how it gets implemented honestly

because swtor also did something different and said they got rid of auto attack.but all they did was make ita nother keybind to add to peoples keybinds.there still is an auto attack in swtor

same could be said about gw2.you have no trinity,but they still have healing skills.so it just makes people playing the classes that dont have a healing role in the first place work harder because of the company wanting to be new

maybe its just me though.thats one of the things i didnt like about swtor,and it looks the same type of deal in gw2

 

There is still healing ofc, but all classes have healing skills, you dont have dedicated healers.. Its completely diferent than the concept of holy trinity, where most of times, if you didnt have an healer in a party you wouldnt do much. Or if all party was wiped, the healer would be the one blaimed for it  xD

It doesnt depend on how it will be implemented, it already is impletended. Who played the betas already saw it. 

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"GW2 is breaking that mold by doing a LOT of things differently"

"no trinity"

it all depends on how it gets implemented honestly

because swtor also did something different and said they got rid of auto attack.but all they did was make ita nother keybind to add to peoples keybinds.there still is an auto attack in swtor

same could be said about gw2.you have no trinity,but they still have healing skills.so it just makes people playing the classes that dont have a healing role in the first place work harder because of the company wanting to be new

maybe its just me though.thats one of the things i didnt like about swtor,and it looks the same type of deal in gw2

 

I was also afraid of that, but playing 5 minutes of GW2 instantly convinced me that this is no longer the case. Everyone deals damage. Everyone supports. Everyone heals. Of course, there are some professions and builds that do some of these things better, but never to the point of becoming a 'pure'.

Frankly, I think you need to play the game before making assumptions such as the above. Doing so will make things much clearer for you.

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by helthros

Someone mentioned a death penalty - What is it?

 

I ask because it seems like the videos and streams I've watched people died and were rezzed over and over again in fights with what seemed like no penalty.

Think it's gear breaking and having to spend money to repair it. Also you lose some money if you have to rez at a waypoint. That's about it I belive.

The money cost at the nearest waypoint thing is a bug. One of the devs said so on the forums. The armor only breaking if you die thing though is right. If you die about 2 or 3 times in one event the cost of the repairs can outmatch the money you earn from just doing the event. But you won't lose armor durability if you just fall into the downed state and get back up. You must enter the fallen state to take armor damage, so playing with others that help you up before you completely die is really nice.

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"Finally, GW2 is challenging. It's not easy, but it's not so difficult that you would throw your computer out the window whlie pulling hair out of your head. It's just challenging."

thats nice.but it all depends on how arenanet handles feedback

a bunch of casuals would come with there sobbing tears on forums and arenanet could dumb down the game so even a retard could do it.i mean me personally,i dont mind a little challenge in a mmo,but what pisses me off more then hard content is content getting nerfed because people choose the route to complain and pull the life card then actually try to get better first

 

 

 

From what it looks like so far, and from my experience with GW1, Anet is pretty good when it comes to balancing. There were some events that did not scale properly (they scaled too much) and were therefore die -> rez at waypoint -> run back before slavers could take all the npcs -> kill some slavers and repeat. 

Most of the harder stuff I experienced were in the second human zone. The first human zone was pretty easy, as they had to be easy as no one knew how to play. 

It's especailly difficult because if you take your eyes off the screen for a couple seconds, you will probably die. There is no watching TV while mindlessly hitting 1,2,3. 

In a couple expansions, depending on how they do things like new classes or skills, open world content may become easier. But that's future updates, and we have yet to to know what they intend to do there.

However, I can safely say that the elite content (dungeons) will never be nerfed. In fact, they will probably only be buffed in the future as people discover builds that make the content easy. After GW1, I can say that Anet knows what they are doing when it comes to play balancing, and destroying builds that make content too easy. Unfortunately, players have a way of discovering builds that Anet has never thought of. 

Anet may nerf some of the open world content that are extremely difficult, except for the most elite of the dynamic events (the Shatterer), as the open world is suppose to be inclusive of everyone.

Originally posted by Quenchster

Originally posted by AvatarBlade

Originally posted by helthros

Someone mentioned a death penalty - What is it?

 

I ask because it seems like the videos and streams I've watched people died and were rezzed over and over again in fights with what seemed like no penalty.

Think it's gear breaking and having to spend money to repair it. Also you lose some money if you have to rez at a waypoint. That's about it I belive.

The money cost at the nearest waypoint thing is a bug. One of the devs said so on the forums. The armor only breaking if you die thing though is right. If you die about 2 or 3 times in one event the cost of the repairs can outmatch the money you earn from just doing the event. But you won't lose armor durability if you just fall into the downed state and get back up. You must enter the fallen state to take armor damage, so playing with others that help you up before you completely die is really nice.

The death penality isn't suppose to be really punishing. It's suppose to be a reminder that you're doing something wrong and you need to change your strategy. The nearest waypoint will still cost money if you have money on your account. Even if you only have 1c on your account, it'll take that 1c. And yes, it's account wide. If you have money on another character, but none on your current character, it'll take the money from another character.

My character died a lot over the last BWE.
It's nothing to worry about.

You have to go through these stages before repairing becomes mandatory.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Downed
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defeated
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor#Repair

Repairing on a regular basis costs very little.

Originally posted by powerplay

Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

DEs - Run around with a bunch of people picking apples, chopping trees and zerging monsters. No stratagey needed. No communication needed. If you die run back until the event ends. Very low stress no prepartion time needed. Jump in when ever you want.

hehe, I bought another copy of the game for my girl friend's 8 year old sister because of quests like this. I hope they have more quests like picking apples. She can be very annoying and GW2 is going to minimize that :).

Originally posted by dontadow

Originally posted by BadSpock

Just about every "major" MMO after WoW in 2004 has been a variation of the exact same thing -

WoW +/- gimmick

GW2 as played by hundreds of thousands of fans seems to have both the ideas AND the follow through, which is why people are so excited about it.

Best Quote I've read. And it is exactly what needs to be said. Say what you will, but GW 2 is doing this (see above) differently.  LIke it, hate it. They are doing it differently. And you can't sya that about any of the other mentioned titles.  Even with TWE, okay you have puzzle quests with realy cool handouts, its still Wow with puzzle quests with really cool handouts.  That is something any game can throw in, but the core of it, is still wow mechanics.  

That is the true difference, and thank you, the core of the GW2 experience is purposefully different than WoW.

Sure, you have hotbars and sometimes use the tab key, sure you have wizards that can throw fireballs, as well as a multitude of either minor details, but the design theory / paridigm of GW2 is radically different than the WoW/EQ formula the genre has been "stuck" on for the past 8 or so years.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Sure, you have hotbars and sometimes use the tab key, sure you have wizards that can throw fireballs, as well as a multitude of either minor details, but the design theory / paridigm of GW2 is radically different than the WoW/EQ formula the genre has been "stuck" on for the past 8 or so years.

The problem of this being that you can't see it in a youtube video, unless you already know what you need to look for. That is the challenge Arenanet has not managed to overcome yet.

GW2 is kinda both. DEs and WvW is indeed pretty casual, you can jump in and out as you want and don´t need to grind any particular gear.

Dungeons and regular PvP on the other hand is far from casual and take plenty of skill to be good on.

Casual players will avoid those parts.

Tthe same could more or less be said for most MMOs, even if gear grind is less in GW2 than usual.

This is one of the many "urban legends" you can find out there about the game. But there are some important points about the game nobody notice many times.

The first thing you learn when you start playing is "don't fight like a superhero". Is so easy see how many people start playing and just die the first event they find by facing just 3 mobs. After a couple of times they finally think about it before starting a fight.

The second one is you can see huge wipes at the moment you start the game and learn another thing: "use your brain". If you have played the charr starter map, one example is the boss you can find in a cave at the left side of the starting point. I saw a huge amount of people fighting him and most of them dying over and over because nobody tried to see what was going on. The charr was summoning a reflecting shield 90% of the time.

The third is "move your ass". Static fight kills you all the time

About the PvP nobody who loves a good battle will ever complain because combat is equal for everyone. And nobody will complain because they can go to low lvl maps and play normally and enjoy old dungeons, events, metaevents and so, instead of playing the same 4 dungeons at the end of the game over and over.

Casual? Yeah, I think so. But casual because is friendly for everyone, not because the game is easy. I think the best way to explain it is: If things gets complicated, if events scale up, if you're in the wrong place or the wrong moment, the game will turn pretty hard to survive. Dificulty scales, is dynamic like the events. Or well, that's my opinion.

Originally posted by Naqaj

Originally posted by BadSpock

Sure, you have hotbars and sometimes use the tab key, sure you have wizards that can throw fireballs, as well as a multitude of either minor details, but the design theory / paridigm of GW2 is radically different than the WoW/EQ formula the genre has been "stuck" on for the past 8 or so years.

The problem of this being that you can't see it in a youtube video, unless you already know what you need to look for. That is the challenge Arenanet has not managed to overcome yet.

That is very true.

Hard to "see it" in a video, but when you play it, you know.

Originally posted by powerplay

Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

DEs - Run around with a bunch of people picking apples, chopping trees and zerging monsters. No stratagey needed. No communication needed. If you die run back until the event ends. Very low stress no prepartion time needed. Jump in when ever you want. 

 

PvP - Click a button jump in a battle. Gear is normalized. No need to gear up. Learn the rules, then zerg towers, zerg keeps, zerg supply lines? Heavy emphasis on groups. Not much 1v1. 

 

Progression - Max level gear is all weighted the same. One person my have a different stat allocation, but the power level is the same. No tiers, no power advancement. A person playing for 5 months is the same as someone who has played 1 month, other than cosmetics. 

 

I think this is perfect for a couple of my friends who work long hours. I'll probably tell them to buy a copy so we can jump in on the weekend and get a few hours of pvp in. If I'm correct they should be at no disadvantage compared to those who spend 40 hours a week in game, right?

You obviously don't have any idea what you're talking about. Sir your generalization is incorrect. Even with the normalizing of pvp. A person playing for 5 months will obviously have the upper hand over a person that has played 1 month. 

The point is you have never played the game and have only read surface information. After you've read more or played the game then come back and re-post.