This is very small. The game is fun but I have to agree that this game falls very short of a Virtual World that requires adventure and exploration. To say that this game is dead because of class imbalance is just as short sited as the devs comments. PvP is not the only thing that makes an MMORPG. Poor idea implementation, lack of crafting, lack of exploration, lack of pvp, lack of social PvE events as well as PvP events. The list can go on and on. Look outside the box just as you are demanding the devs too. You will find that the MMORPG genre is pretty dead all around not just SWTOR.

Originally posted by arctarus
 
And tor pop is tanking...

Is it, really?

I'm not denying the possibility, but I have yet to see a 100% reliable source about this.

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Originally posted by The_Korrigan

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Originally posted by Cetra
one reason why i really hate bioware. They dont own up to mistakes and truths and try to sugar coat the problems pissing you off even more.
I really hate it when they say "we got a dedicated team working on blah blah blah" but that feature is always bugged or badly implemented.

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"Some people" have been hating Blizzard for the same thing for over 7 years now... and Warcraft still has over 10 million players =P

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Originally posted by Sorrow

Sorry gotta do it....

 

 

TOLD YOU SO!!!

 

 

There, I feel better now...

If there is anyone on this site mmo champ, massively that can say "Told you so" it is me, but it is never a good thing when competition is removed from the market place. All it does is make people cling to Blizzards nuts even harder and causes the genre to stagnate.

Originally posted by Teala

Doesn't surprise me in the least, I knew this games was going no where just a couple of hours into beta.   I was surprised I actually beta tested it for as long as I did before I deleted it from my HD.   I was really looking forward to a good MMO, what  I found in beta was far from it.   

What is bad is that when I and others came forward and gave our opinions we were called trolls, haters and every other name under the sun for telling the truth and now...now many of those same people are on these very boards  saying the things some of us were telling you back when they dropped they dropped the NDA - before the game launched!  

That's one of the reasons I stopped reviewing games.   Nobody cares to hear the truth.  Nobody cares about someone elses opinion, even if it means they could save themselves $60 or $150 dollars - they do not care.   So why should I care.  Waste your money on bad games.   Keep giving it to game companies that make half-baked games.   You can make bank that as long as people keep throwing money at bad games - you'll keep getting bad games.

 

Oh hey about all those professional reviews!  How about them?  Huh...places giving the game - game of the year!  LMFAO!  

Yup, [mod edit] would beat you down on the forums if you brought up any of the problems the game had in beta. I blame the arrogant people in charge of SWTOR like George, Daniel etc and the biodrones for not paying attention/belittling feedback. ALL, not some of the problems/features we had concern with in beta were the first things people brought up as concerns as release by subscribers.

Originally posted by Alders

Originally posted by Sorrow

Honestly as things stand game developers are right about us, we are idiots. Technically all the power belongs to us, but we are too stupid, selfish, self-centered, and lazy to use that power.

If gamers organized and would apply the real power of a corporate boycott to cripple or bankrupt one or two of the giants like EA, then all the other developers would sit up take notice and start treating us with the respect we deserve.

Sadly due to bought and paid for gaming sites, viral marketing teams, and generic disingenious troublemakers, we stay disorganized and fighting each other rather than organizing and fighting the real enemy.

 

Sad that as we have come into an age of communication with incredible technology we have actually lost the ability or desire to communicate about the issues that really make a difference.

 

Best post in the entire thread.  This isn't just in gaming or entertainment, it's everywhere today.  We've gotten lazy, fat, and complacent.  Sure we can talk all we want how we're not happy about certain directions, but no one wants to get out of their comfort zone to do anything about it.

It's the reason every government in the world is out of control, because the people are too complacent and lazy to stand up and say..  " We do not exsist to serve you, you exsist to serve us! "

Originally posted by Teala

Doesn't surprise me in the least, I knew this games was going no where just a couple of hours into beta.   I was surprised I actually beta tested it for as long as I did before I deleted it from my HD.   I was really looking forward to a good MMO, what  I found in beta was far from it.   

What is bad is that when I and others came forward and gave our opinions we were called trolls, haters and every other name under the sun for telling the truth and now...now many of those same people are on these very boards  saying the things some of us were telling you back when they dropped they dropped the NDA - before the game launched!  

That's one of the reasons I stopped reviewing games.   Nobody cares to hear the truth.  Nobody cares about someone elses opinion, even if it means they could save themselves $60 or $150 dollars - they do not care.   So why should I care.  Waste your money on bad games.   Keep giving it to game companies that make half-baked games.   You can make bank that as long as people keep throwing money at bad games - you'll keep getting bad games.

 

Oh hey about all those professional reviews!  How about them?  Huh...places giving the game - game of the year!  LMFAO!  

I for one am glad people like you stopped reviewing games.

From this post, it's pretty obvious that you consider your reviews as "The Ultimate Truth", an not just an opinion. Well, you are wrong, your approach is wrong, and no, you are not some kind of masked super hero saving people from buying what YOU think are bad games.

Good riddance, if something is just as bad as "arrogant, clueless developers" (citing the thread title), it's arrogant reviewers who think their opinion is the only valid one (and yeah, sorry if it sounds harsh, but I mean it).

Originally posted by Sorrow

Originally posted by Alders

Originally posted by Sorrow

Honestly as things stand game developers are right about us, we are idiots. Technically all the power belongs to us, but we are too stupid, selfish, self-centered, and lazy to use that power.

If gamers organized and would apply the real power of a corporate boycott to cripple or bankrupt one or two of the giants like EA, then all the other developers would sit up take notice and start treating us with the respect we deserve.

Sadly due to bought and paid for gaming sites, viral marketing teams, and generic disingenious troublemakers, we stay disorganized and fighting each other rather than organizing and fighting the real enemy.

 

Sad that as we have come into an age of communication with incredible technology we have actually lost the ability or desire to communicate about the issues that really make a difference.

 

Best post in the entire thread.  This isn't just in gaming or entertainment, it's everywhere today.  We've gotten lazy, fat, and complacent.  Sure we can talk all we want how we're not happy about certain directions, but no one wants to get out of their comfort zone to do anything about it.

It's the reason every government in the world is out of control, because the people are too complacent and lazy to stand up and say..  " We do not exsist to serve you, you exsist to serve us! "

lol... you 'stand up' to a company who sells a product by .... not buying their current/future product(s). Now everyone just buys everything and then whines and complains and expects a company to change it. Giving companies money and whining in a  forum are not the way to change things. Not giving companies money for bad product is the way to change things. 

'We vote with our pockets.'

[mod edit]

Originally posted by Myria

Originally posted by lizardbones
The idea that a game is 'dead', when it has more players than any other MMORPG currently running (aside from WoW of course) is ridiculous.

 

[mod edit]

Hint: it's not.

It's below 400k and dropping like a brick.

The 1.3 million number includes 1 million people who don't play and are unsubscribing, but who got a free month to cushion the sub loss.

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Originally posted by Myria

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Originally posted by lizardbones
The idea that a game is 'dead', when it has more players than any other MMORPG currently running (aside from WoW of course) is ridiculous.

 

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[mod edit]

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They said they sold 2.4 million copies of the game and now they say they have 1.3 million subs. That means they lost or failed to convert 1.1 million people into paying customers. How is that not a gigantic sign that the game is fucked? lol

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Originally posted by Myria

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Originally posted by lizardbones
The idea that a game is 'dead', when it has more players than any other MMORPG currently running (aside from WoW of course) is ridiculous.

 

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[mod edit]

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Obviously disagree on some points, but the last sentence deserves a cookie. :-)

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Originally posted by kanezfan

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Originally posted by Myria

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Originally posted by lizardbones
The idea that a game is 'dead', when it has more players than any other MMORPG currently running (aside from WoW of course) is ridiculous.

 

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[mod edit]

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They said they sold 2.4 million copies of the game and now they say they have 1.3 million subs. That means they lost or failed to convert 1.1 million people into paying customers. How is that not a gigantic sign that the game is fucked? lol

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When it's standard operating procedure for theme park style games. This is just how the games are going to operate, no matter what you do. Players are going to play for about three months, and then move on. Doesn't matter how much money you throw at it or how inventive you are with quests. That's just how it is.

The only failure would be in not recognizing it and thinking that your game is going to avoid it. EA/Bioware might be getting ready to do this...it doesn't look like they're even acknowledging the population being on too many servers, much less doing anything about it.

Here is pretty much dead on what is involved when you deal with Publishers and Lucasarts it happened with Battlefront III

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDS6Ls0V2zQ

I don't think the industry cares about making quality good games anymore just making buckets of cash, and its really starting to show now.

Slapping the Star Wars name on it with as little content as possiible is what happened with TOR.

All I can say is now "I told you so"

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

Originally posted by RebornDragon

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

really? i guess you must be new to swtor.the only reason scoundrels/operatives are so gimp now are because they listened to much to there playerbase.QQing about stunlocks is what pretty much made those classes worthless in every area besides healing

 

Stunlocking isn't fun gameplay. A stun here and there for a quick defensive or offensive boost is fine, but being able to chain them so close together is not fun or good combat design.

 

regardless if it isnt fun,thats what a rogue class is suppose to do

 

but i guess the failures they hired in for there pvp team thought differently

 

not that it matters anyway,i doubt all the serious pvpers are even going to stay with swtor regardless.this games pvp just reminds me of world of warcraft,which was a joke

 

Actually, there are alternatives, don't assume WOW's model is the only (or best) one

In DAOC steathers were completely different in design, they  did not stun lock you, they hit you with massive burst damage early on and it was a race to the finish to see if they could kill their opponent before they healed up or out lasted them in damage before the end.

I recall playing an Infiltrator and I'd hit the target with a big backstab using poison daggers to boost the dps with dots, then switching daggers to apply more poisons and trying to get the quick kill.

Against sitting cloth casters this was not such a challenge, but against a tank, was near impossible except for the very skilled (or if you hit him before he was able to regen his full health (which actually took a minute or two based on downtime mechanics that title had then)

Back to the article, the quotes in the OP aren't nearly so inflammatory if not taken out of context.  In reading the whole article he doesn't come off nearly so arrogant and it does sound like they actually put quite a bit of thought into it.

Where my soul withers is listening to the gear / gear stats focus of the PVP design a la WOW, that's another area DAOC differed and I don't care for the trend of differing gear sets for PVP vs PVE and having to collect both, just a pain in the arse IMO.

 

 

You must be my brother from another mother.  I had started to type up something very similar to what you said and I for one am completely sick of the PvE/PvP gap that exists in all the new games.  It's a terrible design decision any way you slice it and is trying to strong arm people like me that like to do both into playing twice as much. 

I end up not playing PvE almost at all in the case of WoW because most of the PVE gear is worthless in PVP and with Mists of Pandaria copying SWTOR's Expertise stat (PVP Power), they are separating it even further.

Originally posted by kanezfan

 

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Originally posted by The_Korrigan

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[mod edit]

Before you called me a SW:TOR "fanboi", you should have checked my post history - it would have avoided you some unneeded embarassment...

[mod edit]

Originally posted by Deleted User

To me they've been arrogant and classless for a long time.  I followed Dragon Age's progress for many years, and toward the end when people questioned why certain design choices were made (lack of scabbards, dynamic weather, and day/night cycle, etc.) devs popped up with lazy, rude, "We know better than you what makes a good game" type of responses, while community managers disciplined posters and shut down threads that were critical of certain choices.  EA had bought Bioware in there at some point during DA:O's development.  Perhaps they were influenced by EA's "corporate culture" or because going big time got into their head a little bit.  Who knows.

 

I haven't played either DA game, so perhaps they did get it right, but the attitude is not a thing unique to TOR.  I'm not sure how many of those people worked on TOR, but it seems to me that has become Bioware's identity and that's they type of people they want working for them.  

 

Now they've stepped out of their element with a 100x as many people paying attention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This.    Though I did play DA:O because in the early days I was an active participant in the DA:O boards.   But, yeah, they really did just tell the community to go to hell.   

Originally posted by Kickaxe

Originally posted by eycel

I dont see where u guys are getting of on, I like SWOTOR and TSW rocks.

This thread is worse then racist old people, Id rather listen to C-span then read this crap drivel.

Unsurprising though, wouldn't you say, Eycel?  In general, forum participants are content dealing with half truths construed in whatever light their pre-concieved notions would support.

 

I have plenty of criticisms of TOR, but the linked article is nowhere particularly arrogant.  In fact, I would say it is simply honest and refreshingly direct.

[mod edit]

Any way, I just think after reading so many of these ToR bash threads I guess its more amusing for people that have nothing to do with the game then it is for people that actually play them.  That goes for all games as well, weather your gamer or not.

ps: Id also just like to say that I dont think the developers would appreciate a thread like this and I for one dont think its appropriate in any way [mod edit]

Originally posted by galphar

Here's a look into the future on the MMORPG.com forums:

1 year from now " WTH did Anet do? they f****ed  up this game so bad"

2 years from now "WTH did Blizzaed do? they f***ed up this game so bad"

3 years from now " WTH did (insert dev here) do? They f***ed up this game so bad"

 

Do you see the trend? No matter what game comes out, the forums on this site will continue to be filled with haters that think the best years of MMOs were 10 years ago.  If you think all these new/current games suck so much, create your own MMO and then let us critisize it.

On a public forum, it is unacceptable to voice an opinion?  With a thread title such as this, you must have had some inkling of what you would find in here? 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a consumer having a strong opinion on something they disagree with. We spend our money and time on these games and in turn expect a modicum of content in return. For a developer to undermine and ignore a player base/tester and their suggestions..this is pathetic.  

Well im not gonna say "i told you so" because it really doesnt make any impact at this moment.

What im gonna say is that it takes a strong and commited dev team to come public and admit that they were wrong at some stage of game developing and that things will get better soon.

There are very powerful words in this industry,

 we were wrong and we are going to fix it

we listen to players and we implemented the ideas that came to us

we listen to players, we appreciate your feedback but we feel some of these ideas can be implemented but others wont be

we feel towards the dedicated player that if you have been paying a subscription to one of our games for 5 years, and you had to buy all the expansions of our shitty game, we decided to offer you "that other game"...

Its sad, but you know, not every dev team is called CCP, and if you are not playing EVE online, you are in gamers hell bus...