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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SWTOR is dead because of arrogant, clueless lead devs

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168 posts found
  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

5/15/12 5:34:20 PM#61
Originally posted by Sorrow

Honestly as things stand game developers are right about us, we are idiots. Technically all the power belongs to us, but we are too stupid, selfish, self-centered, and lazy to use that power.

If gamers organized and would apply the real power of a corporate boycott to cripple or bankrupt one or two of the giants like EA, then all the other developers would sit up take notice and start treating us with the respect we deserve.

Sadly due to bought and paid for gaming sites, viral marketing teams, and generic disingenious troublemakers, we stay disorganized and fighting each other rather than organizing and fighting the real enemy.

 

Sad that as we have come into an age of communication with incredible technology we have actually lost the ability or desire to communicate about the issues that really make a difference.

People can't be bothered to think for themselves anymore, which is exactly why we find ourselves in the dire circumstances we are in on this globe. 

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  madjonNZ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/13/07
Posts: 143

5/15/12 5:42:00 PM#62
Originally posted by Unlight

Bioware has become one of the most arrogant and egotistical developers in the industry.  I also have rarely seen a 'AAA' dev become so confrontational with it's playerbase.  You expect the odd slip up here and there from any developer, but for these jerks, it seems to be a matter of policy. 

They've always had this kernel of self-superiority, but it wouldn't get much exposure since they stuck to SP games.  I mean, once a title is out the door and working, that's it.  With an MMO though, where their relationship with their community is an extremely important and ongoing affair, their dismal attitude is almost impossible to mask. 

I'd like to think that EA's disdain for gamers has been rubbing off on Bioware and that the company that brought me Baldur's Gate, weren't always the wretched assholes they've become.  That it wasn't really their fault.  They just fell in with the wrong crowd.

I'd like to think that...

^ this.

  dontadow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1045

5/15/12 5:51:40 PM#63

Class balance destroying a star wars game? that sounds absurd. 

Blame the focus of games for pvp. PVP is the only real reason to have "balance".  Never hear arguments about "balance" in the tabletop world. Sure, there are classes are may come about being over powered, but because its not focused on attacking your fellow player, classes don't have to be equalled to the line. 

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

5/15/12 5:56:40 PM#64
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2
Originally posted by RebornDragon
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

really? i guess you must be new to swtor.the only reason scoundrels/operatives are so gimp now are because they listened to much to there playerbase.QQing about stunlocks is what pretty much made those classes worthless in every area besides healing

 

Stunlocking isn't fun gameplay. A stun here and there for a quick defensive or offensive boost is fine, but being able to chain them so close together is not fun or good combat design.

 

regardless if it isnt fun,thats what a rogue class is suppose to do

 

but i guess the failures they hired in for there pvp team thought differently

 

not that it matters anyway,i doubt all the serious pvpers are even going to stay with swtor regardless.this games pvp just reminds me of world of warcraft,which was a joke

 

Im sorry what is it the rogues are supposed to do again,  chain stunlock and kill every player they attack?  Hmm okay sure.......... 

  Huskell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/09
Posts: 6

5/15/12 5:58:21 PM#65

Back when the game was in closed beta, probably six months or so before release.  Zoeller responded to some criticism of the game in the beta forums by saying (paraphrasing here) "Listen, thanks for the advice but we know what we are doing.  If we didn't know what we are doing we wouldn't be as succesful as we are.  You guys are basically here to provide metric data, not to tell us how to make the game".

It was at that point that I stopped my participation in the beta and started to cope with my dissapointment in the title.

 

  toddze

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2195

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

5/15/12 5:59:53 PM#66

The game is dead because its a single player RPG. The main focus of an MMORPG should never be a story. Storys end, and storys end relativly fast. There has to be something to keep the players interested in the game other than a story. 

I dont think bioware lost a dime on this game, on the contrary I am sure they made a nice profit on all the sheep who bought this online RPG, thinking it was an MMORPG. These so called MMO's will continue to be developed because they aremade cheep enough now to pull a hefty profit at launch. 

We need a new genre for real MMORPG's because the "mmorpg" genre now is nothing more than online RPG's, this trend isnt going away anytime soon.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

5/15/12 6:32:37 PM#67
Originally posted by toddze

The game is dead because its a single player RPG. The main focus of an MMORPG should never be a story. Storys end, and storys end relativly fast. There has to be something to keep the players interested in the game other than a story. 

I dont think bioware lost a dime on this game, on the contrary I am sure they made a nice profit on all the sheep who bought this online RPG, thinking it was an MMORPG. These so called MMO's will continue to be developed because they aremade cheep enough now to pull a hefty profit at launch. 

We need a new genre for real MMORPG's because the "mmorpg" genre now is nothing more than online RPG's, this trend isnt going away anytime soon.

Yeah, I heard BioWare made this game for a bargain at $200mill? Totally a cheap cash grab, imo.

Er...

  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

5/15/12 7:04:57 PM#68
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2
Originally posted by RebornDragon
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

really? i guess you must be new to swtor.the only reason scoundrels/operatives are so gimp now are because they listened to much to there playerbase.QQing about stunlocks is what pretty much made those classes worthless in every area besides healing

 

Stunlocking isn't fun gameplay. A stun here and there for a quick defensive or offensive boost is fine, but being able to chain them so close together is not fun or good combat design.

 

regardless if it isnt fun,thats what a rogue class is suppose to do

 

but i guess the failures they hired in for there pvp team thought differently

 

not that it matters anyway,i doubt all the serious pvpers are even going to stay with swtor regardless.this games pvp just reminds me of world of warcraft,which was a joke

 

Im sorry what is it the rogues are supposed to do again,  chain stunlock and kill every player they attack?  Hmm okay sure.......... 

 

regardless,they arent suppose to be crippled and useless because of the incompetant dev team nerfing them based on idiot forum whiners

 

  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

5/15/12 7:08:06 PM#69

"Listen, thanks for the advice but we know what we are doing.  If we didn't know what we are doing we wouldn't be as succesful as we are.  You guys are basically here to provide metric data, not to tell us how to make the game".

yeah,they sure know what there doing.25 percent of subs lost says otherwise

 

 

 

  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

5/15/12 7:08:29 PM#70

When the game launched I said "it has potential if they consistently update like Trion did with RIFT"

and they didn't, now they're swirling around the shitter.

 

They chose this, they live with the failure.

  toddze

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2195

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

5/15/12 7:17:10 PM#71
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by toddze

The game is dead because its a single player RPG. The main focus of an MMORPG should never be a story. Storys end, and storys end relativly fast. There has to be something to keep the players interested in the game other than a story. 

I dont think bioware lost a dime on this game, on the contrary I am sure they made a nice profit on all the sheep who bought this online RPG, thinking it was an MMORPG. These so called MMO's will continue to be developed because they aremade cheep enough now to pull a hefty profit at launch. 

We need a new genre for real MMORPG's because the "mmorpg" genre now is nothing more than online RPG's, this trend isnt going away anytime soon.

Yeah, I heard BioWare made this game for a bargain at $200mill? Totally a cheap cash grab, imo.

Er...

they are full of it, if they spent 200 mil on this game, some devs are making insane salary at bioware. There wasnt 200 mil poured into this game, getting the Star wars rights probably costed them an arm and a leg.

If they actually spent 200 mil making this game Bioware is more inept than this game.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  seafirex

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 240

5/15/12 7:21:43 PM#72

I played the beta and was trying to like the game, but i saw all does flaws it had. So i basicaly did not buy the game at all when it came out.

Lots of my friend did buy it and quit World of Warcraft for it. But not i, as per i knew and tried to let them know but they are big fans of star wars and they wanted to play it bad, up to the point of trying to get me into it.

 

I told them at that point one thing : If you are still playing the game 3 months after it is out and you are still loving it as when you first sub into it, then i will join you guys.

3 weeks after lunch, got my friends back in wow.

 

Now i dont play Wow anymore. ( i had been playing since lunch by the way ).

I will be waiting for GW2 and yes i still have my old GW account but i know that GW2 is the way for me ( at least for me ).

 

For does that still play swtor i hope you guys keep having fun . For the one's that dont anymore, i am sorry for your lost and i hope to see you guys in a future mmorpg.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

5/15/12 7:28:10 PM#73
Originally posted by Greyhooff

The real reason SWTOR is a dead game: arrogant, disconnected Fanboys who have no clue about how consumers should voice their opinion about whats wrong or missing with the game so developers know what their players are expecting from them.

Good players warned them during beta...and got continually shut down.

 

Fixed that for you. Want to see it happening again? Go to the TSW forums or go back a dozen page on the Tera forums...maybe even check out to a lesser extent the GW2 forums.

Anything where people are complaining about complainers, saying its only beta, or its new...or give them a chance...anything to not support the idea of improving the game and derail in every way what is being said.

 

 

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

5/15/12 8:41:38 PM#74

I really would like to be invisible visitor in their meetings. Or time travel back and visit their past meetings before launch. Somehow Bioware and EA strike me like a real large office bureau, who are usually mired in bureaucracy by their size, like the left had doesn't know that the right hand did. I just have no explanation for the situation. I mean, even if you are totally, absolutely convinced in your "vision" - don't they EVER doubt themselves and wonder what they *maybe* lack and really need? I am really clueless here how Bioware constantly goes further into this sterile game concept (see DA2 and ME3) and they just don't see their issues?? Isn't their ONE person inside this big company who asks some questions and raises some doubts over the course of development?

 

Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Greyhooff

The real reason SWTOR is a dead game: arrogant, disconnected Fanboys who have no clue about how consumers should voice their opinion about whats wrong or missing with the game so developers know what their players are expecting from them.

Good players warned them during beta...and got continually shut down.

 

Fixed that for you. Want to see it happening again? Go to the TSW forums or go back a dozen page on the Tera forums...maybe even check out to a lesser extent the GW2 forums.

Anything where people are complaining about complainers, saying its only beta, or its new...or give them a chance...anything to not support the idea of improving the game and derail in every way what is being said.

 

 

 

With all due respect, jtcgs, but I think editing other people's quote is not good netiquette. It's like misquoting someone.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

5/15/12 8:56:22 PM#75

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

5/15/12 9:09:08 PM#76
Originally posted by Elikal

I really would like to be invisible visitor in their meetings. Or time travel back and visit their past meetings before launch. Somehow Bioware and EA strike me like a real large office bureau, who are usually mired in bureaucracy by their size, like the left had doesn't know that the right hand did. I just have no explanation for the situation. I mean, even if you are totally, absolutely convinced in your "vision" - don't they EVER doubt themselves and wonder what they *maybe* lack and really need? I am really clueless here how Bioware constantly goes further into this sterile game concept (see DA2 and ME3) and they just don't see their issues?? Isn't their ONE person inside this big company who asks some questions and raises some doubts over the course of development?

Man I am glad you posted this, because I wonder about it too. So often in real life things are much more mundane than I imagine, so I bet it was really about what wasn't said, or wasn't followed up.

"So uh, how is it going with endgame?"

"Well, we are working up some preliminary designs, but we are still testing two approaches."

"Well It's almost time for lunch, where we going today?"

"Chinese?"

"We had that last time."

"There's the taco stand on 3rd."

... Later that day

"Wooo look at the Legacy features Tom has running! It's a speeder that looks like the honey badger!"

"That's so cool, somebody go get Daniel."

"Naw it's already 7:00 I'm going home."

 

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Dahkot72

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 274

5/15/12 9:31:47 PM#77

From they hyperspace beacon interview , this jumped out at me more than any of the crap James Clueless O had to say about PVP.

The interviewer started off a question with this,

"I love the overall vision for PvP in general, and it's been said that SWTOR has some of the most balanced PvP in MMOs. Where do you feel you sit with that balance currently? And what provisions have you taken to help maintain that balance or improve on it?"

 

Mother of god , the person who did that interview makes the Jim Jones followers look reasonable and lucid.

 

 

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

5/15/12 9:44:34 PM#78
Originally posted by Elikal

I really would like to be invisible visitor in their meetings. Or time travel back and visit their past meetings before launch. 

Maybe I can help a bit:

 

Behind the scenes of Star Wars: The Old Republic: throwing people at the problem

 

Quote:
Bioware Austin hire huge numbers of developers, outsource much of their art, completely rebuild how their team was integrated, and eventually make strict cuts to game features in a triage process known internally as “The Death Star”.
Quote:
“If you offer nothing different, you fail. But we are an MMORPG."

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic was built to thrive in a WoW world

 

Quote:
Their goal, for now, is to gain over one million subscribers in the long-term, one they’re apparently well on their way to meeting.

 

Quote:
Dickinson said that they won some and lost some in trying to scale up to full production with this kind of scope. He believes they did well in the voice over and writing development cycle, as well as outsourcing of art for both character and environment. Where they didn’t do so well, he said, was in the build pipeline (what gets done and by whom), data tables (tracking), and software scripting.
  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1652

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

5/15/12 10:06:09 PM#79
Originally posted by Sorrow

Honestly as things stand game developers are right about us, we are idiots. Technically all the power belongs to us, but we are too stupid, selfish, self-centered, and lazy to use that power.

If gamers organized and would apply the real power of a corporate boycott to cripple or bankrupt one or two of the giants like EA, then all the other developers would sit up take notice and start treating us with the respect we deserve.

Sadly due to bought and paid for gaming sites, viral marketing teams, and generic disingenious troublemakers, we stay disorganized and fighting each other rather than organizing and fighting the real enemy.

 

Sad that as we have come into an age of communication with incredible technology we have actually lost the ability or desire to communicate about the issues that really make a difference.

 

Best post in the entire thread.  This isn't just in gaming or entertainment, it's everywhere today.  We've gotten lazy, fat, and complacent.  Sure we can talk all we want how we're not happy about certain directions, but no one wants to get out of their comfort zone to do anything about it.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

5/15/12 10:37:16 PM#80
Originally posted by Dahkot72

From they hyperspace beacon interview , this jumped out at me more than any of the crap James Clueless O had to say about PVP.

The interviewer started off a question with this,

"I love the overall vision for PvP in general, and it's been said that SWTOR has some of the most balanced PvP in MMOs. Where do you feel you sit with that balance currently? And what provisions have you taken to help maintain that balance or improve on it?"

 

Mother of god , the person who did that interview makes the Jim Jones followers look reasonable and lucid.

 

 

Larry Everett, he's on Gamebreaker too. Funny thing is he's an RP guy I think.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

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