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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SWTOR is dead because of arrogant, clueless lead devs

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168 posts found
  eblan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/04
Posts: 34

5/15/12 4:03:24 PM#41
Originally posted by Rommie10-284
Originally posted by eyeswideopen
Originally posted by Sorrow

When they literally verbally attacked the SWTOR CB testers because we were offering feedback, called us idiots said they knew more than we ever would and we should bow down and worship them for allowing us to buy games from them well that was the point I was done with Bioware...

 

FOREVER!

Yep, I remember that. Specifically, it was George Zoeller who told us they didn't need our feedback. As long as we played, they got all the "metrics" they wanted and the rest was no concern. That was when I stopped even trying to suggest anything helpful and became a regular pain in EAware's ass on the forums.

So do I.  I also ignored the waving red flag this was, to my regret.  Never again.

The biggest joke from all this?  These guys will get high-profile jobs down the road, because they *worked* on TOR, and the industry doesn't give a frak about performance.  That has to change before games can really move forward, and why I'm hoping some of these new games find success with new people behind them.

Indeed, in CB it certainly felt like we were only there for metrics. Combine that with how out of the loop they seemed to be and we ended up in a perfect storm of developer arrogance. I recall towards the end of beta, second to last build I believe, they moved bug reporting to the CSR ticket system. So every new bug report I submitted resulted in a CSR asking me if I was stuck or something, and more or less asking me why I was reporting these bugs to the CS ticket portal. Days later someone from QA posted a sticky telling us not to submit bugs to the CS ticket portal, mind you at this point this was the _ONLY_ way to submit bugs (aside from email). I was terribly confused, but obviously not as lost as they were.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

5/15/12 4:12:47 PM#42
Originally posted by eyeswideopen
Originally posted by Sorrow
Originally posted by AbdullaDoo

To me they've been arrogant and classless for a long time.  I followed Dragon Age's progress for many years, and toward the end when people questioned why certain design choices were made (lack of scabbards, dynamic weather, and day/night cycle, etc.) devs popped up with lazy, rude, "We know better than you what makes a good game" type of responses, while community managers disciplined posters and shut down threads that were critical of certain choices.  EA had bought Bioware in there at some point during DA:O's development.  Perhaps they were influenced by EA's "corporate culture" or because going big time got into their head a little bit.  Who knows.

 

I haven't played either DA game, so perhaps they did get it right, but the attitude is not a thing unique to TOR.  I'm not sure how many of those people worked on TOR, but it seems to me that has become Bioware's identity and that's they type of people they want working for them.  

 

Now they've stepped out of their element with a 100x as many people paying attention.

 

 

 

 

 

 

When they literally verbally attacked the SWTOR CB testers because we were offering feedback, called us idiots said they knew more than we ever would and we should bow down and worship them for allowing us to buy games from them well that was the point I was done with Bioware...

 

FOREVER!

Yep, I remember that. Specifically, it was George Zoeller who told us they didn't need our feedback. As long as we played, they got all the "metrics" they wanted and the rest was no concern. That was when I stopped even trying to suggest anything helpful and became a regular pain in EAware's ass on the forums.

That's just terrible.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Rydeson

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3114

5/15/12 4:16:10 PM#43
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by Teilo

If the horse is dead, why do you insist on beating it?

 

Over and over.

Tenderizes the meat

BEST ANSWER EVER... +5

  UnleadedRev

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 313

5/15/12 4:26:04 PM#44

Its EA/Bioware, what do you expect?

The Pub/Dev that brought us the great game that was Dragon Age 1, then thought they new better than anyone and released the POS that was Dragon Age 2.

Created urgent demand for SWTOR prior to release by causing paniced players to buy digital copies of the game "before they run out"!

ROFLMAO

The Pub/Dev that brought us the great Mass Effect series 1-3, but is probably planning for Mass Effect 4 to take place in Newark New Jersey and will replace shepard with Snookie.

Published Kingdoms of Amalur despite the fact that a single player fantasy RPG has been done so many times, that Elves fear to walk the streets alone, and said game had nothing new, ground breaking ro special about it. Oh yeah, the dev studio...Studio 38 is about to go bankrupt, and because they were funded by State of Rhode Island Bonds, Tax Payers will be flipping the bill for their FAIL!

Fear the Alien, the Psyker, the Heretic, the moronic Steam Moderator.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

5/15/12 4:35:20 PM#45
Originally posted by UnleadedRev

Its EA/Bioware, what do you expect?

The Pub/Dev that brought us the great game that was Dragon Age 1, then thought they new better than anyone and released the POS that was Dragon Age 2.

Created urgent demand for SWTOR prior to release by causing paniced players to buy digital copies of the game "before they run out"!

ROFLMAO

The Pub/Dev that brought us the great Mass Effect series 1-3, but is probably planning for Mass Effect 4 to take place in Newark New Jersey and will replace shepard with Snookie.

Published Kingdoms of Amalur despite the fact that a single player fantasy RPG has been done so many times, that Elves fear to walk the streets alone, and said game had nothing new, ground breaking ro special about it. Oh yeah, the dev studio...Studio 38 is about to go bankrupt, and because they were funded by State of Rhode Island Bonds, Tax Payers will be flipping the bill for their FAIL!

Oh man I forgot about the Before they run out garbage!

$150.00 Collector's Edition. sigh

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Kiljaedenas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 411

5/15/12 4:36:40 PM#46

I'm so glad I never got into this game, I avoided all the crap like this entirely :)

  User Deleted
5/15/12 4:37:11 PM#47

i'll summarize this for everyone as to why this game is utter garbage.

Bioware: 

Created a story driven mmo, copied, old wow stuff. Created what they wanted us to play.

Launched teh game without 1.2 and ignored beta testers from closed beta about the flaws of the game.

again, bioware made what they wanted, not what YOU wanted. Asked time and time again, they just kept pushing along with this voice over/story garbage. Story is unimportant when its created for you in an mmo. If you are going to plot an entire roller coaster for people, then do the whole roller coaster. Bioware stopped at level 50. people don't want to go through this again and again and again.

the trend here is that bioware is doing what they want with the game, not what the community wanted. Most of us, want a player driven economy, choice, crafting. This game should have been made single player, with dlc's . 

The servers are dying more and more as other mmo's come out with a "real" difference. im going to list non "mmo's" as well since they will pull chunks from swtor as well.

Secret world 

guild wars 2

torchlight 2

tera

borderlands 2

diablo 3

 

even these non mmo games have more community than what star wars the old republic offered at launch.

 

The devs at bioware and ea have no clue. this game may by the end of next year hold 150k subs if lucky. People don't want more flashpoints. They want something to do, and when you tell them what to do and how to do it, it takes the immersion of gameplay out.

they should have realized that star wars fans are a strong , tight knit community, and built the game around building that. They are now losing star wars fans, as well as mmo fans. I wanted this game to be successful, i , in fact loved it till level 50. Unfortunately, it's a closed beta of vanilla wow in it's current state.

Baldur's gate was one of my first games, and im shocked at how bioware was so stubborn to ignore the people that made them what they are. stick with dragons and single player bioware. 

 

  kanezfan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/05
Posts: 496

5/15/12 4:37:42 PM#48

It amazes me with all this that people are shelling out what, $200, $300 for a lifetime sub on TSW with EA involved? I can see that train wreck coming 100 miles away...

  CrunkJuice2

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/12
Posts: 584

5/15/12 4:51:42 PM#49
Originally posted by kanezfan

It amazes me with all this that people are shelling out what, $200, $300 for a lifetime sub on TSW with EA involved? I can see that train wreck coming 100 miles away...

 

id rather flush 300 dollers down the toilet then pay 300 dollers for a lifetime subscription to a funcom mmo

i mean,people do relize that funcom made age of conan right? 

 

 

 

  galphar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 55

5/15/12 4:54:27 PM#50

Here's a look into the future on the MMORPG.com forums:

1 year from now " WTH did Anet do? they f****ed  up this game so bad"

2 years from now "WTH did Blizzaed do? they f***ed up this game so bad"

3 years from now " WTH did (insert dev here) do? They f***ed up this game so bad"

 

Do you see the trend? No matter what game comes out, the forums on this site will continue to be filled with haters that think the best years of MMOs were 10 years ago.  If you think all these new/current games suck so much, create your own MMO and then let us critisize it.

  MMOarQQ

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 659

"Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain."

5/15/12 5:02:03 PM#51

This still burns my ass... I really wanted to enjoy this game... I really did.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

5/15/12 5:08:47 PM#52
Originally posted by Unlight

Bioware has become one of the most arrogant and egotistical developers in the industry.  I also have rarely seen a 'AAA' dev become so confrontational with it's playerbase.  You expect the odd slip up here and there from any developer, but for these jerks, it seems to be a matter of policy. 

They've always had this kernel of self-superiority, but it wouldn't get much exposure since they stuck to SP games.  I mean, once a title is out the door and working, that's it.  With an MMO though, where their relationship with their community is an extremely important and ongoing affair, their dismal attitude is almost impossible to mask. 

I'd like to think that EA's disdain for gamers has been rubbing off on Bioware and that the company that brought me Baldur's Gate, weren't always the wretched assholes they've become.  That it wasn't really their fault.  They just fell in with the wrong crowd.

I'd like to think that...

This.

But, I (too) told you so.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  gestalt11

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6131

5/15/12 5:10:56 PM#53
Originally posted by SuperDonk
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by SuperDonk

SWTOR will be used as an example of what not to do when developing and maintaining an MMO.

 

HAHA

 

Same was said for Vanguard and then AoC, then WAR and also STO

Dont forget NGE.

 

There are a long list of games in the "What NOT to do" pile.

Problem is, Devs (for some insane reason) keep rooting around in that pile and putting that same crap back in these new games.

 Sigh...

 

You're right....

He said used.

 

He didn't say anyone would listen.  Most people are not that skilled at listening.  Its quite rare.

  gestalt11

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6131

5/15/12 5:12:44 PM#54
Originally posted by SuperDonk
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2
Originally posted by RebornDragon
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

really? i guess you must be new to swtor.the only reason scoundrels/operatives are so gimp now are because they listened to much to there playerbase.QQing about stunlocks is what pretty much made those classes worthless in every area besides healing

 

Stunlocking isn't fun gameplay. A stun here and there for a quick defensive or offensive boost is fine, but being able to chain them so close together is not fun or good combat design.

 

regardless if it isnt fun,thats what a rogue class is suppose to do

 

but i guess the failures they hired in for there pvp team thought differently

 

not that it matters anyway,i doubt all the serious pvpers are even going to stay with swtor regardless.this games pvp just reminds me of world of warcraft,which was a joke

 

 If pvp in WoW is a joke, I wonder what the pvp in SWTOR should be compared to.

A bad pun?

  Grailer

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 816

5/15/12 5:12:49 PM#55

Even tho SWTOR was an utter fail for an MMO  I still got a months gaming out of it . I played every class  to lvl 10 in that month .

I never got a character past level 30 .

 

I felt that Level 1-12 was really great but after that it got very dull and grindy .

 

  User Deleted
5/15/12 5:18:05 PM#56

Honestly as things stand game developers are right about us, we are idiots. Technically all the power belongs to us, but we are too stupid, selfish, self-centered, and lazy to use that power.

If gamers organized and would apply the real power of a corporate boycott to cripple or bankrupt one or two of the giants like EA, then all the other developers would sit up take notice and start treating us with the respect we deserve.

Sadly due to bought and paid for gaming sites, viral marketing teams, and generic disingenious troublemakers, we stay disorganized and fighting each other rather than organizing and fighting the real enemy.

 

Sad that as we have come into an age of communication with incredible technology we have actually lost the ability or desire to communicate about the issues that really make a difference.

  SuperDonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 656

5/15/12 5:28:03 PM#57
Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by SuperDonk
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2
Originally posted by RebornDragon
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"They won't listen to their playerbase because they "know better".

really? i guess you must be new to swtor.the only reason scoundrels/operatives are so gimp now are because they listened to much to there playerbase.QQing about stunlocks is what pretty much made those classes worthless in every area besides healing

 

Stunlocking isn't fun gameplay. A stun here and there for a quick defensive or offensive boost is fine, but being able to chain them so close together is not fun or good combat design.

 

regardless if it isnt fun,thats what a rogue class is suppose to do

 

but i guess the failures they hired in for there pvp team thought differently

 

not that it matters anyway,i doubt all the serious pvpers are even going to stay with swtor regardless.this games pvp just reminds me of world of warcraft,which was a joke

 

 If pvp in WoW is a joke, I wonder what the pvp in SWTOR should be compared to.

A bad pun?

 LOL, nice.

I want to be Uncle Owen again.

  DeaconX

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/08/05
Posts: 3059

Stand up for what you believe; Even if you stand alone.
-==X==-
SHH, my COMMON SENSE is tingling!

5/15/12 5:29:44 PM#58
Originally posted by Cetra

one reason why i really hate bioware. They dont own up to mistakes and truths and try to sugar coat the problems pissing you off even more.

I really hate it when they say "we got a dedicated team working on blah blah blah" but that feature is always bugged or badly implemented.

BioWare AUSTIN.  I don't really have anything bad to say about BioWare Edmonton.  Heck they have a track record for reacting really well to their fans.


Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

5/15/12 5:30:57 PM#59
Originally posted by galphar

Here's a look into the future on the MMORPG.com forums:

1 year from now " WTH did Anet do? they f****ed  up this game so bad"

2 years from now "WTH did Blizzaed do? they f***ed up this game so bad"

3 years from now " WTH did (insert dev here) do? They f***ed up this game so bad"

 

Do you see the trend? No matter what game comes out, the forums on this site will continue to be filled with haters that think the best years of MMOs were 10 years ago.  If you think all these new/current games suck so much, create your own MMO and then let us critisize it.

The forums are always more negative than the reality.

However, there tends to be a lot more verterans on sites like this with very valid things to say about these games early on.  Once you play a fair number of these games and have been around enough years, you do start to have a certain expertise as an enthusiast if you are paying attention to development, innovations, markets, player trends, etc.

I called SWTOR for what it was at least six months before launch, if not a year, simply due to what BioWare *was not* saying about their game.  It's really not all that hard to spot the problems.  Right now the current themepark trend is on the way out, and only those companies that will boldly innovate such as ANet has have a chance at making it very far.

I suspect when Blizzard finally announces their new MMO, it will be full of innovations, even some that are taken from GW2, as will other future games.  If Blizzard comes out and tries to release a prettier-but-same WoW product, they are screwed, IMO.  They are going to need to bring some new stuff to the table to blow everyone away.  I hope they are smart enough to see that people are looking for more options and more depth within the same game now.  Give people multiple ways to enjoy the game rather than just slamming them into a trinity themepark role. Think hybrid.

 

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  rygard49

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

5/15/12 5:33:59 PM#60

Despite the many and varied proclamations of death regarding every decision big and small, TOR is far from dead. Dying? Possibly. Certainly not dead, though. Evidenced by the fact that the game is still running, and not, in fact, not running.

They're definitely not doing themselves any favors with their lack of PvP testing and arrogant interviews, though. They're making bad decisions for bad reasons, and actually Georg has said in the past that they change classes based on what people say for why they're quitting. That's a terrible way to balance the game.

I'd tell them to buy a clue, but they spent all their cash on VO *rimshot*.   ;-)

They have time to turn it around, though, what with the not being dead and all. Maybe.

 

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